It depends on the match. More aggressive decks deal too much damage before we drill it home. I'm talking like a red/white aggro deck that sneaks in 16 damage before we get things under control. Then you struggle to deal 20 back before they find Stoke the Flames.
Steve missed a new card though: Shamanic Revelation. I could easily see this as a draw 3, gain 8 life on turn 5. Against aggro, going back up to 12 is a life saver. Against bigger decks that attempt to stabilize (and against too many Siege Rhinos), drawing a pile of cards to refuel the attack, while reversing the Siege Rhino/Roc counterattack is also great. I don't know that it's main-deck material. but it's at least a definite sideboard card.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
I feel this has probably been discussed in the past, but I was reading through an article about how the "Protect the Queen" strategy should be used if possible, and in most cases is better than a traditional midrange approach. I feel like this could apply most to Temur, as you have access to counters and versatile threats that can be protected nicely (Savage Knuckleblade). I've been taking this list for a little bit of a spin, and it looks pretty interesting.
I'm sure you all know why Knuckleblade is in the deck, but I'll explain the other two. Mauler is a card that can come down and finish the game extremely quickly due to its trample. It's Hexproof also allows you to hold your counterspells for their threats in the late game, rather than have to use them to ward off removal. Its morph can also be relevant, dropping it as a morph turn 5 with Stroke open, and then morphing it at the end of their next turn - all the while being able to counter if necssary. Dragonclaw is an all star in this deck because of its flash. This allows you to hold up counter-spells, while being able to flash it end of turn (or as a super combat trick). These three critters are all you need to finish them off, having warded off their threats.
Reality Shift is an experiment, but I feel like it can be really good here. It's an answer all removal to whatever they drop. However, it can backfire against more creature heavy decks, as the card that is manifested can not be countered - which could prove deadly. Speaking of counterspells, I'm almost considering being greedy and running Dissolve.
Anger of the Gods feels particulary good in this build because it doesn't kill Knuckleblade. However, it does kill Caryatid, which makes me question the validity of Caryatid in this deck. It does provide a good early blocker, though, and can ramp you into turn 3 Knuckleblade with Denial open - so its probably still good in here, even if it dies to Anger.
Crater's Claws is a bit of a throw-in, but I suppose it can double as removal, or a late game finisher. It has its role.
It looks interesting, but it also looks like the failed experiments by Jeff Hoogland and Brian Kibler, two professional Temur die-hards. If you want a protect the queen strategy, you might look at Temur Sabertooth as well.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
With this "protect the queen" strategy, would you just want to play temur control and run planeswalkers which seem like they'd be better queens then Surrak?
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"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain bad at Magic."
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent)BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH: RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU URArjun StormUR GUEzuri TokensGU GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
With this "protect the queen" strategy, would you just want to play temur control and run planeswalkers which seem like they'd be better queens then Surrak?
A valid proposition, although there is a strong argument for Surrak:
1/ he can often kill more quickly than Planeswalkers.
2/ his flash is huge. It means I don't have to tap out to play him, being able to keep counter-magic/removal up if necessary.
However, Sarkhan is definitely extremely strong competition - I will test out both.
I think the approach we should be taking to come over the top is to really abuse the Blue to justify going Temur instead of straight GR Monsters. FRF has given us a whole new angle to abuse: card advantage. With all the really good 4-power creatures we got (Frost Walker which is also Blue, Temur Sabertooth, Shaman of the Great Hunt and Whisperwood Elemental) we can try the Ascendancy plan once again. We also got good unconditional removal in Reality Shift, and a good 1-CMC burn spell in Wild Slash who conveniently takes care of the manifested creature. Monastery Siege also helps with the CA plan, or at least card quality by filtering, and fuels the GY so we can splash Treasure Cruise alongside some counters and fetchlands. Here are the blue cards we can run, sorted by power:
Temur Charm shouldn't be overlooked. It can serve as a Mana Leak, removal spell that gives a small boost to a creature (so you hit for 1 point of damage more after the fight if you cast it pre-combat or take down a creature and block and take down another one if cast on the opponent's turn) or as a way to finish a Jeskai tokens player so they don't stop us by chumpblocking.
Just fill in with the Charms, Denial and Shift, and 4-power beaters, some dorks and you have a resilient deck that can recover fast while hitting the ground running against Midrange-Control and having sturdy walls again Aggro. All we're missing now is some lifegain.
Shamanic Revelation is a great draw engine and life gain spell, though I'm not sure if we're to spend five mana for that. Better still to put on more pressure to the opposition. Maybe a sideboard card.
Btw I like the 'Protect the Queen' strategy as mentioned by coyw. I think that Shaman of the Great Hunt should be somewhere in 75. Clear his path and protecting him while he becomes the biggest threat on board. Instead of Stubborn Denial, maybe Monastery Siege serves a better protection purpose ? Reality Shift definitely the removal we need.
Sylvan Caryatid as the only ramp card allows us to have more tapped lands, hence hurt lesser. Crater's Claws and Wild Slash generally to answer small board presence and to kill off manifest token from Reality Shift. With Monastery Siege on board, we would not worry less for spot removal. Multiple copies do work, right ? Correct me if I'm wrong (example: 2 Monastery Siege in play with Dragon mode, Thoughtseize would cost 4B). Finally, Sarkhan over Sagu Mauler simply because of his versatility. He comes in a turn earlier, as a beater or as a removal depending on board situation.
Shamanic Revelation is a great draw engine and life gain spell, though I'm not sure if we're to spend five mana for that. Better still to put on more pressure to the opposition. Maybe a sideboard card.
Btw I like the 'Protect the Queen' strategy as mentioned by coyw. I think that Shaman of the Great Hunt should be somewhere in 75. Clear his path and protecting him while he becomes the biggest threat on board. Instead of Stubborn Denial, maybe Monastery Siege serves a better protection purpose ? Reality Shift definitely the removal we need.
Sylvan Caryatid as the only ramp card allows us to have more tapped lands, hence hurt lesser. Crater's Claws and Wild Slash generally to answer small board presence and to kill off manifest token from Reality Shift. With Monastery Siege on board, we would not worry less for spot removal. Multiple copies do work, right ? Correct me if I'm wrong (example: 2 Monastery Siege in play with Dragon mode, Thoughtseize would cost 4B). Finally, Sarkhan over Sagu Mauler simply because of his versatility. He comes in a turn earlier, as a beater or as a removal depending on board situation.
I really like the look of this deck and after testing mine out against U/B control(with proxies)at the pre-release I wasn't as impressed and my opponent was able to hit removal after removal until he got down a Pearl Lake Ancient. I thought going more creatures might make it run more aggressive, but I found myself always wanting for a counterspell and never having it. Running more Counterspells, definitely seems to be the better choice. Plus the "Protect the Queen" Strategy is what made Jund such a powerhouse back in Innistrad. Most of what the deck did was get a Huntmaster or Thragtusk down and use removal to protect it. It didn't run very many creatures(unlike my list). So I definitely think this is the better approach to take.
My prediction: New UB Control with Crux, PLA, and Silmugar is going to push the midrange decks to BG.
The variety of removal and counters available to UB Control is staggering, so Whip will become the go-to response for midrange.
The new meta will have more aggro than before, less midrange, and a very powerful control deck.
I'm torn on Shamanic Revelation. 5 CMC is about where Temur casts Treasure Cruise. If you've got three creatures on the board and two are power 4+, revelations would be a lot better. That situation borders on a win more. Revelations biggest draw is that its the buy a box promo. Those tend to be decent.
The bigger problem is that I like treasure cruise and I'm considering if its crowding the top of the curve in light of shaman.
Notes so far:
- I absolutely want the 4th copy of Temur Ascendancy. It has performed stellar. I'd also want to include 2-3 Shamanic Revelation to act as a pseudo Sphinx's Revelation.
- Running Revelation means a slower approach and this means less dork. They are a sucky topdeck, don't trigger ascendancy and can make situations awkward at times. I will completely eschew Elvish Mystic and swap Rattleclaw Mystic for Sylvan Caryatid.
- It's sometimes too slow even for a midrange-ish approach, and so it needs some more 3-drops. Looking specially at Fanatic of Xenagos.
- The real strength of the deck (besides hitting the ground running with hasty, 4+ power creatures) is that we have plenty of mana sinks and instants that it's impossible for the opponent to play around everything. Open mana means I can sink it in any one of the two Monstrosity effects, Savage Knuckleblade's activations, Shaman of the Great Hunt's card draw, casting a surprise Surrak Dragonclaw or simply hold up for removal / counters. This is something the other clans cannot do and I think it's the right direction to take if we're playing Temur.
- Temur Sabertooth ties with the previous point. It's a very tough and resilient creature that can save himself and another guy at instant speed with only two mana open. Plus, he can re-trigger Ascendancy's card draw by bouncing some creatures back to the hand EOT.
- Stormbreath Dragon is preferred to Sarkhan, Dragonspeaker since he triggers on Ascendancy, has protection from white which eases a lot the Abzan / Jeskai matchups and has a mana sink in Monstruous which also ties up with the Instant speed theme.
Notes so far:
- I absolutely want the 4th copy of Temur Ascendancy. It has performed stellar. I'd also want to include 2-3 Shamanic Revelation to act as a pseudo Sphinx's Revelation.
- Running Revelation means a slower approach and this means less dork. They are a sucky topdeck, don't trigger ascendancy and can make situations awkward at times. I will completely eschew Elvish Mystic and swap Rattleclaw Mystic for Sylvan Caryatid.
- It's sometimes too slow even for a midrange-ish approach, and so it needs some more 3-drops. Looking specially at Fanatic of Xenagos.
- The real strength of the deck (besides hitting the ground running with hasty, 4+ power creatures) is that we have plenty of mana sinks and instants that it's impossible for the opponent to play around everything. Open mana means I can sink it in any one of the two Monstrosity effects, Savage Knuckleblade's activations, Shaman of the Great Hunt's card draw, casting a surprise Surrak Dragonclaw or simply hold up for removal / counters. This is something the other clans cannot do and I think it's the right direction to take if we're playing Temur.
- Temur Sabertooth ties with the previous point. It's a very tough and resilient creature that can save himself and another guy at instant speed with only two mana open. Plus, he can re-trigger Ascendancy's card draw by bouncing some creatures back to the hand EOT.
- Stormbreath Dragon is preferred to Sarkhan, Dragonspeaker since he triggers on Ascendancy, has protection from white which eases a lot the Abzan / Jeskai matchups and has a mana sink in Monstruous which also ties up with the Instant speed theme.
Certainly Jeskai could be a better option for this kind of strategy, but we could be as competitive too. Possibly we are moving towards aggro-control meta. Or at least within the 75, we could be a full on aggro or shift to aggro-control mode. I like Terra Stomper but maybe if I were to go that big, I'd go for Atarka, World Render instead.
Btw I like the 'Protect the Queen' strategy as mentioned by coyw. I think that Shaman of the Great Hunt should be somewhere in 75. Clear his path and protecting him while he becomes the biggest threat on board. Instead of Stubborn Denial, maybe Monastery Siege serves a better protection purpose ? Reality Shift definitely the removal we need.
Sylvan Caryatid as the only ramp card allows us to have more tapped lands, hence hurt lesser. Crater's Claws and Wild Slash generally to answer small board presence and to kill off manifest token from Reality Shift. With Monastery Siege on board, we would not worry less for spot removal. Multiple copies do work, right ? Correct me if I'm wrong (example: 2 Monastery Siege in play with Dragon mode, Thoughtseize would cost 4B). Finally, Sarkhan over Sagu Mauler simply because of his versatility. He comes in a turn earlier, as a beater or as a removal depending on board situation.
I like the list man, although I do feel like I would really miss Stubborn Denial. Dropping a Surrak or Knuckleblade with Denial in hand is just so hard to stop - especially if you've spent the early game clearing the way. Which leads me to a card that has been an all-star for me in testing -> mainboard Anger of the Gods. I know it has anti-synergy with Caryatid, but really I find Caryatid's best work is done block in the early game and potentially ramping you into T3 - Knuckleblade + Denial open, or T3 Lightning Strike + Stroke open if you're on the play. From turn 4 onwards, it becomes less and less useful. What is important though, is being able to sweep the board and reset around turn 4/5 as you prepare to drop Knuckleblade or Surrak or Mauler/Sarkhan to win the game.
Sarkhan does seem like it should be in here, and I'll definitely test it over Mauler. I like Shaman too, and will test it, but am not sure how well it would work in a PTQ strategy compared to some of the other builds with more creatures to benefit from its ability.
Monastery Siege in the board is something I too am very excited about.
Jeskai doesn't have Savage Knuckleblade, which I think is immense because it has built in protection. They also don't have Surrak, who has been an all star for me. I think we have better creatures than they do, however, they have access to better removal in white.
I would definitely sideboard Stormbreath Dragons, it gives us an option that ignores Crux of Fate, leaving our deck in a better position against control than a lot of the others.
Shamanic Revelation has been just bonkers for me. It is very close to sphinx's rev for us.
Can you elaborate? At first glace it seemed more like a win more to me.
The biggest problem I have had with this deck is the mana base. It is very painful with no real lifegain. Where other decks have lifelink creatures, siege rhino, and whip to counter act their mana bases. We have never had that options. Our card quality is off the charts insane. Our creatures are way above the curve compared to every other deck in the format. That is our greatest strength. Often times I never to get to use that strength because it is too late to come back into the game. When you try to catch up your mana base is killing you putting you that much further behind.
It isn't hard for us to have 2 creatures with 4 power or more on the field at a time. Gaining 8 life and drawing 2 cards is a pretty big deal for us. That example is just a low grade Shamanic Revelation. The upside potential for this card is very high.
What made Sphinx's Rev so powerful was not the cards you draw but the life gain that gave you time to cast them all. It could also chain into more putting the game out of reach for your opponent. This is not going to draw you as many cards as Sphinx's Rev but you will gain way more life compared to mana cost.
I also see this being jammed into Abzan Midrange. Often times that deck attrition until both players are in top decks. Shamanic Revelation allows them to draw into more rhino more often and more action spells.
Yasova Dragonclaw can be a good 3-drop, but is the 2-toughness worth it? I just tolerate it in Shaman of the Great Hunt because it's such a great card on it's own even without the ferocious clause, and the card draw is the icing on the cake. I guess I'll just have to find some room for her since I'm pretty stacked.
About the Chord Tokens deck with Hour of Need I feel it would be too clunky for my tastes, and you depend entirely on the card to not be left with a bunch of 1/1's.
I'll have to retweak my manabase for this new approach and find slots to fit and test the Yasovas. Also 1 more Shamanic Revelation might be good to push us over the top. Overall, the deck has been pretty solid, if not somewhat slow. It's main weakness is the lack of lifegain.
I was too concern about spot removal, I totally overlook the mass removal. Monastery Siege might be able to handle spot removal but Stubborn Denial answers for both. But then again, PTQ approach does not requires a lot of board presence so yeah I think the enchantment should be better. Crux of Fate and End Hostilities only answers 1-2 creatures anyway, and with our haste creatures, we still be swinging next turn.
For Shamanic Revelations do we want to be running a minimum amount of creatures to use it? The decks that only run 14 creatures might not make the most out of it, where as those running more than 20 will profit more.
I really don't know if I like the card, being Sorcery means an opponent can respond and kill one of your creatures lessening the card draw and life gain. To successfully cast it you really need 6 mana with 1 blue open and a Stubborn Denial in hand. The card really is not Sphinx's Revelations. After a board wipe it is a terrible top deck(no creatures=no card draw). Sphinx was good WHENEVER you drew it and at instant speed could be played around the opponent's plays. Just my two cents on the card.
Revelations seems like a sideboard card at best an can't really save you when you are behind. If you really need maindeck ways to gain life play courser. Remember the format will speed up and so Ascendancy doesn't help the game plan of, "kill the opponent". If you are really concerned with card draw that much play Shaman. At least he will buff the team when they hit. For me the only real way to make Temur is to make it RG style with more disruption and a better lategame. This "protect the queen" style is something something other colors do better and kinda hinders all the threats you could play with Temur. It seems more in line with David McDarby's Temur control and not everyone else's Temur Midrange/Aggro. Also Monastery Siege is not really maindeckable unless you really need card draw or protection. And there are no profitable ways for us to take advantage of the discard outside of TC. Surrak is not really maindeckable since he is a 5 drop and, as I stated, the format will speed up to beat the UB control deck so having him in your opening hand makes it a mull to 6. Sure he gives your guys trample and uncounter-ability but those abilities are almost only good versus Elspeth and various control decks.
Instead of those sub-par maindeck cards try some walkers like Chandra, Xenagos or Sarkhan. They offer reusable advantage and can virtually gain you life.
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"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain bad at Magic."
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent)BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH: RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU URArjun StormUR GUEzuri TokensGU GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
Rattleclaw Mystic is doing strange things to the mana calculations. By the time you reach 5 mana, you have a very high chance of having UU available. I suspect, with sweepers, it wouldn't work that well in practice but it seems like you might be able to run Jace's Ingenuity for card draw.
Shamanic revelation seems best in the mirror. Against another creature heavy deck with limited removal it can draw a lot of cards and gain a lot of life.
I started out planning to SB Monastery Siege and am getting closer and closer to main decking it. It causes removal to cost 2 more. If downfall costs 5 cmc and lightning strike 4 cmc, there is a very good chance of killing your opponent before they can get off removal. The downside is that this encourages more sweepers, which are hostile to mana dorks.
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A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
Steve missed a new card though: Shamanic Revelation. I could easily see this as a draw 3, gain 8 life on turn 5. Against aggro, going back up to 12 is a life saver. Against bigger decks that attempt to stabilize (and against too many Siege Rhinos), drawing a pile of cards to refuel the attack, while reversing the Siege Rhino/Roc counterattack is also great. I don't know that it's main-deck material. but it's at least a definite sideboard card.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Sagu Mauler
3 Surrak Dragonclaw
4 Stubborn Denial
2 Disdainful Stroke
4 Temur Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Reality Shift
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Crater's Claws
2 Magma Spray
3 Back to Nature
3 Destructive Revelry
4 Negate
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Anger of the Gods
I'm sure you all know why Knuckleblade is in the deck, but I'll explain the other two. Mauler is a card that can come down and finish the game extremely quickly due to its trample. It's Hexproof also allows you to hold your counterspells for their threats in the late game, rather than have to use them to ward off removal. Its morph can also be relevant, dropping it as a morph turn 5 with Stroke open, and then morphing it at the end of their next turn - all the while being able to counter if necssary. Dragonclaw is an all star in this deck because of its flash. This allows you to hold up counter-spells, while being able to flash it end of turn (or as a super combat trick). These three critters are all you need to finish them off, having warded off their threats.
Reality Shift is an experiment, but I feel like it can be really good here. It's an answer all removal to whatever they drop. However, it can backfire against more creature heavy decks, as the card that is manifested can not be countered - which could prove deadly. Speaking of counterspells, I'm almost considering being greedy and running Dissolve.
Anger of the Gods feels particulary good in this build because it doesn't kill Knuckleblade. However, it does kill Caryatid, which makes me question the validity of Caryatid in this deck. It does provide a good early blocker, though, and can ramp you into turn 3 Knuckleblade with Denial open - so its probably still good in here, even if it dies to Anger.
Crater's Claws is a bit of a throw-in, but I suppose it can double as removal, or a late game finisher. It has its role.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent) BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH:
RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU
URArjun StormUR
GUEzuri TokensGU
GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
A valid proposition, although there is a strong argument for Surrak:
1/ he can often kill more quickly than Planeswalkers.
2/ his flash is huge. It means I don't have to tap out to play him, being able to keep counter-magic/removal up if necessary.
However, Sarkhan is definitely extremely strong competition - I will test out both.
t2 Blade
t3 Yasova, gets instantly equipped and boosted to a 7/4
Also what are the thoughts on Frost Walker in the 2cmc slot?
- Enable Ferocious
- Forces removal to fizzle, no extra effects
Creatures:
- Savage Knuckleblade
- Surrak Dragonclaw
- Frost Walker
- Sagu Mauler
Non-creature spells:
- Temur Charm
- Stubborn Denial
- Reality Shift
- Temur Ascendancy
- Monastery Siege
- Treasure Cruise
So, the CA shell could be something akin to this:
4 Shaman of the Great Hunt
2 Whisperwood Elemental
3 Temur Ascendancy
2 Monastery Siege
1 Treasure Cruise
Temur Charm shouldn't be overlooked. It can serve as a Mana Leak, removal spell that gives a small boost to a creature (so you hit for 1 point of damage more after the fight if you cast it pre-combat or take down a creature and block and take down another one if cast on the opponent's turn) or as a way to finish a Jeskai tokens player so they don't stop us by chumpblocking.
Just fill in with the Charms, Denial and Shift, and 4-power beaters, some dorks and you have a resilient deck that can recover fast while hitting the ground running against Midrange-Control and having sturdy walls again Aggro. All we're missing now is some lifegain.
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Btw I like the 'Protect the Queen' strategy as mentioned by coyw. I think that Shaman of the Great Hunt should be somewhere in 75. Clear his path and protecting him while he becomes the biggest threat on board. Instead of Stubborn Denial, maybe Monastery Siege serves a better protection purpose ? Reality Shift definitely the removal we need.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Shaman of the Great Hunt
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Spells (21)
4 Crater's Claws
4 Temur Charm
4 Wild Slash
4 Reality Shift
3 Monastery Siege
2 Disdainful Stroke
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Mystery
Sylvan Caryatid as the only ramp card allows us to have more tapped lands, hence hurt lesser. Crater's Claws and Wild Slash generally to answer small board presence and to kill off manifest token from Reality Shift. With Monastery Siege on board, we would not worry less for spot removal. Multiple copies do work, right ? Correct me if I'm wrong (example: 2 Monastery Siege in play with Dragon mode, Thoughtseize would cost 4B). Finally, Sarkhan over Sagu Mauler simply because of his versatility. He comes in a turn earlier, as a beater or as a removal depending on board situation.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
I really like the look of this deck and after testing mine out against U/B control(with proxies)at the pre-release I wasn't as impressed and my opponent was able to hit removal after removal until he got down a Pearl Lake Ancient. I thought going more creatures might make it run more aggressive, but I found myself always wanting for a counterspell and never having it. Running more Counterspells, definitely seems to be the better choice. Plus the "Protect the Queen" Strategy is what made Jund such a powerhouse back in Innistrad. Most of what the deck did was get a Huntmaster or Thragtusk down and use removal to protect it. It didn't run very many creatures(unlike my list). So I definitely think this is the better approach to take.
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
The variety of removal and counters available to UB Control is staggering, so Whip will become the go-to response for midrange.
The new meta will have more aggro than before, less midrange, and a very powerful control deck.
For something in Temur, maybe Frontier Siege to power out a Terra Stomper?
I'm torn on Shamanic Revelation. 5 CMC is about where Temur casts Treasure Cruise. If you've got three creatures on the board and two are power 4+, revelations would be a lot better. That situation borders on a win more. Revelations biggest draw is that its the buy a box promo. Those tend to be decent.
The bigger problem is that I like treasure cruise and I'm considering if its crowding the top of the curve in light of shaman.
3 Elvish Mystic
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Shaman of the Great Hunt
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
3 Reality Shift
4 Temur Charm
3 Stubborn Denial
Enchantment (3)
3 Temur Ascendancy
Land (23)
4 Frontier Bivouac
2 Temple of Mystery
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Forest
4 Mountain
3 Mana Confluence
Notes so far:
- I absolutely want the 4th copy of Temur Ascendancy. It has performed stellar. I'd also want to include 2-3 Shamanic Revelation to act as a pseudo Sphinx's Revelation.
- Running Revelation means a slower approach and this means less dork. They are a sucky topdeck, don't trigger ascendancy and can make situations awkward at times. I will completely eschew Elvish Mystic and swap Rattleclaw Mystic for Sylvan Caryatid.
- It's sometimes too slow even for a midrange-ish approach, and so it needs some more 3-drops. Looking specially at Fanatic of Xenagos.
- The real strength of the deck (besides hitting the ground running with hasty, 4+ power creatures) is that we have plenty of mana sinks and instants that it's impossible for the opponent to play around everything. Open mana means I can sink it in any one of the two Monstrosity effects, Savage Knuckleblade's activations, Shaman of the Great Hunt's card draw, casting a surprise Surrak Dragonclaw or simply hold up for removal / counters. This is something the other clans cannot do and I think it's the right direction to take if we're playing Temur.
- Temur Sabertooth ties with the previous point. It's a very tough and resilient creature that can save himself and another guy at instant speed with only two mana open. Plus, he can re-trigger Ascendancy's card draw by bouncing some creatures back to the hand EOT.
- Stormbreath Dragon is preferred to Sarkhan, Dragonspeaker since he triggers on Ascendancy, has protection from white which eases a lot the Abzan / Jeskai matchups and has a mana sink in Monstruous which also ties up with the Instant speed theme.
Thoughts everyone?
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
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If you are looking for 3 drops why not Yasova Dragonclaw?
She triggers Ascendancy and Furocious, also a mana sink to steal any small dorks.
I could see Shaman Revelation in a Chord Tokens kind of deck with Hornet Queen and Hordeling Outburst. The life gain may not be necessary but to be able to draw 4-5 cards is just awesome. The win con could be the Temur Ascendancy plan with Hour of Need, exiling 1/1 tokens creating 4/4 flying tokens, card draw and at instant speed, or call something for combo; Purphoros, God of the Forge and Hornet Queen, or Atarka, World Render and Xenagos, God of Revels.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
I like the list man, although I do feel like I would really miss Stubborn Denial. Dropping a Surrak or Knuckleblade with Denial in hand is just so hard to stop - especially if you've spent the early game clearing the way. Which leads me to a card that has been an all-star for me in testing -> mainboard Anger of the Gods. I know it has anti-synergy with Caryatid, but really I find Caryatid's best work is done block in the early game and potentially ramping you into T3 - Knuckleblade + Denial open, or T3 Lightning Strike + Stroke open if you're on the play. From turn 4 onwards, it becomes less and less useful. What is important though, is being able to sweep the board and reset around turn 4/5 as you prepare to drop Knuckleblade or Surrak or Mauler/Sarkhan to win the game.
Sarkhan does seem like it should be in here, and I'll definitely test it over Mauler. I like Shaman too, and will test it, but am not sure how well it would work in a PTQ strategy compared to some of the other builds with more creatures to benefit from its ability.
Monastery Siege in the board is something I too am very excited about.
Jeskai doesn't have Savage Knuckleblade, which I think is immense because it has built in protection. They also don't have Surrak, who has been an all star for me. I think we have better creatures than they do, however, they have access to better removal in white.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Can you elaborate? At first glace it seemed more like a win more to me.
The biggest problem I have had with this deck is the mana base. It is very painful with no real lifegain. Where other decks have lifelink creatures, siege rhino, and whip to counter act their mana bases. We have never had that options. Our card quality is off the charts insane. Our creatures are way above the curve compared to every other deck in the format. That is our greatest strength. Often times I never to get to use that strength because it is too late to come back into the game. When you try to catch up your mana base is killing you putting you that much further behind.
It isn't hard for us to have 2 creatures with 4 power or more on the field at a time. Gaining 8 life and drawing 2 cards is a pretty big deal for us. That example is just a low grade Shamanic Revelation. The upside potential for this card is very high.
What made Sphinx's Rev so powerful was not the cards you draw but the life gain that gave you time to cast them all. It could also chain into more putting the game out of reach for your opponent. This is not going to draw you as many cards as Sphinx's Rev but you will gain way more life compared to mana cost.
I also see this being jammed into Abzan Midrange. Often times that deck attrition until both players are in top decks. Shamanic Revelation allows them to draw into more rhino more often and more action spells.
About the Chord Tokens deck with Hour of Need I feel it would be too clunky for my tastes, and you depend entirely on the card to not be left with a bunch of 1/1's.
This is my updated list:
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Shaman of the Great Hunt
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
4 Temur Ascendancy
Sorcery (2)
2 Shamanic Revelation
Instant (10)
3 Reality Shift
3 Stubborn Denial
4 Temur Charm
I'll have to retweak my manabase for this new approach and find slots to fit and test the Yasovas. Also 1 more Shamanic Revelation might be good to push us over the top. Overall, the deck has been pretty solid, if not somewhat slow. It's main weakness is the lack of lifegain.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
I really don't know if I like the card, being Sorcery means an opponent can respond and kill one of your creatures lessening the card draw and life gain. To successfully cast it you really need 6 mana with 1 blue open and a Stubborn Denial in hand. The card really is not Sphinx's Revelations. After a board wipe it is a terrible top deck(no creatures=no card draw). Sphinx was good WHENEVER you drew it and at instant speed could be played around the opponent's plays. Just my two cents on the card.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Instead of those sub-par maindeck cards try some walkers like Chandra, Xenagos or Sarkhan. They offer reusable advantage and can virtually gain you life.
-Benjamin "The Innovator" Franklin
Standard:
Nothing, hate standard after Rhino
Modern:
Looking at Evolution Decks, RUG or [mana]WRG[mana]
Legacy:
Shardless Foundry ('Cause I have a crippling addiction to Shardless Agent) BUG (and I'm to broke for goyfs)
EDH:
RGUSurrak Dragon Tribal!RGU
URArjun StormUR
GUEzuri TokensGU
GRBUYidris GoodstuffGRBU
2 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Shivan Reef
3 Yavimaya Coast
2 Mana Confluence
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Abandon
3 Frontier Bivouac
3 Rattleclaw Mystic
Rattleclaw Mystic is doing strange things to the mana calculations. By the time you reach 5 mana, you have a very high chance of having UU available. I suspect, with sweepers, it wouldn't work that well in practice but it seems like you might be able to run Jace's Ingenuity for card draw.
Shamanic revelation seems best in the mirror. Against another creature heavy deck with limited removal it can draw a lot of cards and gain a lot of life.
I started out planning to SB Monastery Siege and am getting closer and closer to main decking it. It causes removal to cost 2 more. If downfall costs 5 cmc and lightning strike 4 cmc, there is a very good chance of killing your opponent before they can get off removal. The downside is that this encourages more sweepers, which are hostile to mana dorks.