I'm running a build with 6 slots for something that isn't a creature. Four of those are going to be crater's claws. I'm looking for suggestions for the other two spots. I tried stubborn denial, and ended up with it getting blanked in the mirror. Any suggestions for main deck. Cards I was thinking of are:
Lightning Strike, really doesn't need any explanation.
Arc Lightning, added utility but at a higher mana cost. On the other hand, if you're going to use two mana for casting a spell their isn't much of a bonus for leaving one open if you don't have a use for it.
Barrage of Boulders, not so much for the one point of damage in most matchups as for the way to clear blocks.
Chandra Pyromaster. Expensive and in most cases will not kill a potential blocker. On the other hand it does have some upsides.
Any ideas?
Stubborn denial is really really good. I think barrage of boulders is mostly a sideboard card, temur charm already does something "similar" but can still counter or fight with something. Chandra i kind of like, in fact, in a more aggro build it´s better than most 4 drops if you have a board presence of course, since you can kind of curve out and once your opponent is on defense you can deny one blocker.
Maybe a split? something like 1 chandra 1 lightning strike? or 1 strike 1 arc lightning perhaps.
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Quickling gets me back spells. Whisperwood pumps out guys, and everything is decently costed. You can also flash a morphed quickling and it would save something.
The article basically stated that the "Temur Solution" is to switch to G/R aggro. I facepalmed.
Anyways, I posted my decklist a few posts above and started doing some testing. I was excited to finally try it but it sadly underperformed. It ran out of gas to early, struggled in the G/R/X monsters mirrors, and really had a hard time playing on the draw. After running out of ideas on how to fix it, a friend of mine reminded me of a couple of cards that I had already tried and didn't like. After some thought, however, I decided to go back and try them again: Boon Satyr and Temur Charm. Both cards underperformed in previous builds I had, but it turned out to be due to the shell around them being completely incorrect at the time. However, with the newer build. they fit in absolutely perfectly. Here's the build as it sits now on MTGO (some slots are still experimental):
What I didn't realize initially was how relevant Boon Satyr's instant speed casting would be. The magic of this list is the fact that with 3 mana open, it can sit back and wait for the opponent to make a move before deciding whether to put the pedal down with Boon Satyr or counter a relevant spell with Temur Charm (which, when on the draw, often means countering a Polukranos or Siege Rhino). That type of ability is EXACTLY what the deck needed and it has performed wonderfully since making the changes. In the first game I played with the new list, I was up against G/B Constellation on the draw and countered a Siege Rhino on T4 and a Doomwake Giant on T5 before laying out my threats and getting ahead. The old list would have crumbled in that situation. Also, being able to flash in Boon Satyr and Stubborn Denial out of nowhere is a neat trick. Often times, the way the deck lines up, you can flash in a Boon Satyr at opponent's EOT then hit them for 8 out of a nowhere with a hasty Savage Knuckleblade on T4. These changes have made a world of difference in the deck's ability to not fall behind while being able to put on the pressure at a moment's notice. I am very pleased so far with it. Oh, and as for Thassa, God of the Sea - she's great for maintaining a steady stream of good draws while making sure other decks can't just get by with chump blocks (Hornet Queen, I'm looking at you). I've found a 1-of to be a nice trump in many games.
but a deck like RUG monsters JUST CAN'T remain mana open to cast this spell. We have to put lot of pressure in the board. If we want to play like control, we'll not play > 24 creatures. Am i wrong?
As I stated in my post above, Boon Satyr is the card that allows us to keep Temur Charm mana open. I've actually been using the mana leak mode the most out of everything so far. Everybody is so eager to tap out for Siege Rhinos and Doomwake Giants that we can quickly and efficiently turn their gameplan on its head. Or if they don't do anything, flash in Boon Satyr and make them tap out for removal, then follow up with maybe a hasty Savage Knuckleblade and start the beatdown. It's this kind of adaptability that I'm finding to be the key to the deck. If the game is getting so out of hand that I need to use the 3rd mode, then the deck wasn't running optimally haha....though it is good in a pinch.
Sorry Magnitudo91, I was asking kingcars, not you.
Mainly mana base consistency and the fact that he kept tinkering with some really slow, awkward midrangey builds that completely go against what Temur wants to do.
Today in modo, I went 7-2 overall in practice rounds and daily rounds, only losing to the usual misplays and variance. The deck is running quite well; took down Jeskai Tokens, Sidisi Whip etc.
So this is my idea for a deck after FRF is released. I know it probably isn't very good, but just an idea to move away from Monsters into a more tempo/aggro oriented deck. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
So this is my idea for a deck after FRF is released. I know it probably isn't very good, but just an idea to move away from Monsters into a more tempo/aggro oriented deck. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
You've got 4 mana sources (plus 4 caryatid) to pump Warder of the First Tree. He's usually going to just be a 1/1 for 1, which is pretty anemic. I'd cut him for literally anything else.
Shaman increased in price in a few days, it is an indefinite staple to temur midrange. Which would be R/G splash blue for knuckle and stubborn. I stopped using charms, and just played monastery siege in it's place. There is no point in holding up mana, we aren't playing a control unless its post board.
I keep trying to find some kind of haste mechanic for all my creatures, but the only ones that come to mind are Hammer of Purphoros and Temur Ascendancy, both of which take a turn away from the gameplan kf hitting hard, fast, and on curve. I've yhought about putting in a couple copies of Ascendancy, because t3 Ascendancy into t4 Polukranos seems pretty good. That also frees up a land for a mid/late game Savage Knuckleblade to pump or bounce out of danger
I like Shaman of the Great Hunt but I feel like it takes up an important spot in the deck for a very situational effect. The pump is nice, but how much will you see that? Much less the card draw that costs mana you couldve used to play something. I feel like, if it gets to that late in the game, something with the deck isn't right.
It's a relevant 4/2 haste. The pump is good for things like heir to push in 3 and turn into a 4. It turns knuckle into a 5/5, and if you play the flamewake phoenix version, its a 3/3 in the air.
The shaman is also used for the card draw portion as well, what temur lacked was heavy card draw. Temur ascendancy was okay for 1 for 1. But the shaman itself can be used without applying board presence and it is as instant speed. Which is very good in a mobile creature. Whether you draw 1 card or 2 cards with knuckle/boon satyr/polukranos. It still replaced itself as well as giving you a +1. T3-T5 isn't really considered late game that you are applying this pressure.
I'm not sold on the Shaman but I'll end up trying him out at some point. I feel like Ashcloud Phoenix and Polukranos, World Eater are just better overall cards...but we'll see. I could be wrong.
Thoughts on just R/G Monsters splash blue for Denial? Knuckleblade is great but rarely comes down on T3 and it just makes our manabase terrible. Just jamming Stormbreath, Ashcloud, and Polukranos with some Crater's Claws should be fine.
I haven't tested Shaman yet but the 2 toughness just seems bad. Frost Walker in some games for me has been awesome but others it's terrible, still not sure about it. Monastery Siege out of the SB is still in testing but seems good vs control and burn.
i've tested a bit shaman of the great hunt, and it's amazing... casting it on 3rd turn it's insame. Auto 4 slots for him.
What would you take out for him? Polukranos or Ashcloud Phoenix? His ability seems great with flyers but having both him and Polukranos makes the deck incredibly weak to Anger of the Gods.
I took out polukranos, There is literally no reason to play a 5/5 where shaman or knuckleblade wouldn't do the job. Siege rhino is pretty irrelevant because of knuckleblade, shaman makes it bigger and draws me 2 cards if they both live. Drawing cards allows me to dig deeper for crater's claw that flat out kills rhino, or get stubborn to counter anything that disrupts my board.
I usually don't care about anger since my version runs whisperwood. But in other cases, their argument would be having denial or charm back up.
I took out polukranos, There is literally no reason to play a 5/5 where shaman or knuckleblade wouldn't do the job. Siege rhino is pretty irrelevant because of knuckleblade, shaman makes it bigger and draws me 2 cards if they both live. Drawing cards allows me to dig deeper for crater's claw that flat out kills rhino, or get stubborn to counter anything that disrupts my board.
I usually don't care about anger since my version runs whisperwood. But in other cases, their argument would be having denial or charm back up.
Whisperwood Elemental doesn't die to Anger of the Gods, yet you can't sac and get a bunch of tokens when your stuff dies -- since they're exiled instead.
Not sure if this is the interaction you were referring to.
Ah that was the interaction i was referring too. Thank for the correction, I probably would have to care about anger now. I thought it was worded that they die, and then they get exiled.
I always thought that exiling from damage meant that it did actually die, it just went to exile instead of the graveyard
The game's definition of "die" is for a creature to go from the battlefield to the graveyard. Anger of the Gods says that it is exiled instead of going to the graveyard. So it never dies. That's why Ashcloud Phoenix doesn't come back and other dies triggers also don't go off.
Mysential, I wouldn't call Siege Rhino "irrelevant." We do have trouble punching through it without Knux, Heir, or a flier. Knux can't even get through if we tap out to play this guy. Shaman can't at all, and maybe trading with a courser is ok but getting walled by Rhino feels bad. Polukranos is a threat that has to be answered because it stomps all over all of their creatures. I do want to try him Shaman with more evasive creatures like the 3-drop Phoenix.
Temur Charm also gets a lot worse when your creature dies in the process, and our removal against midrange decks is already pretty bad.
I was thinking of something like this. Using Jeff Hoogland's approach, to utilize Temur Charm 2nd mode to control turn 2-3 and beating with a single need-to-answer-or-you-die threat. Previously, we would want Savage Knuckleblade as early as turn 3 with haste. Now, the other alternative is Shaman of the Great Hunt. Both Heir of the Wilds and Flamewake Phoenix most likely to gain from the Orc Shaman.
Stubborn denial is really really good. I think barrage of boulders is mostly a sideboard card, temur charm already does something "similar" but can still counter or fight with something. Chandra i kind of like, in fact, in a more aggro build it´s better than most 4 drops if you have a board presence of course, since you can kind of curve out and once your opponent is on defense you can deny one blocker.
Maybe a split? something like 1 chandra 1 lightning strike? or 1 strike 1 arc lightning perhaps.
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
3 elvish mystic
4 rattleclaw mystic
4 Quickling
2 Yasova dragonclaw
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Shaman of the great hunt
3 Whisperwood Elemental
3 Lightning Strike
3 Crater's Claw
2 Temur Charm
4 Stubborn Denial
Quickling gets me back spells. Whisperwood pumps out guys, and everything is decently costed. You can also flash a morphed quickling and it would save something.
The article basically stated that the "Temur Solution" is to switch to G/R aggro. I facepalmed.
Anyways, I posted my decklist a few posts above and started doing some testing. I was excited to finally try it but it sadly underperformed. It ran out of gas to early, struggled in the G/R/X monsters mirrors, and really had a hard time playing on the draw. After running out of ideas on how to fix it, a friend of mine reminded me of a couple of cards that I had already tried and didn't like. After some thought, however, I decided to go back and try them again: Boon Satyr and Temur Charm. Both cards underperformed in previous builds I had, but it turned out to be due to the shell around them being completely incorrect at the time. However, with the newer build. they fit in absolutely perfectly. Here's the build as it sits now on MTGO (some slots are still experimental):
3x Elvish Mystic
3x Sylvan Caryatid
3x Heir of the Wilds
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
3x Boon Satyr
4x Savage Knuckleblade
2x Ashcloud Phoenix
3x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Stormbreath Dragon
Spells (11)
3x Stubborn Denial
3x Crater's Claws
2x Lightning Strike
3x Temur Charm
1x Temple of Abandon
4x Yavimaya Coast
3x Shivan Reef
1x Temple of Mystery
1x Mana Confluence
1x Temple of Epiphany
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Frontier Bivouac
2x Mountain
2x Forest
2x Ætherspouts
3x Disdainful Stroke
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Surrak Dragonclaw
3x Destructive Revelry
2x Force Away
3x Anger of the Gods
What I didn't realize initially was how relevant Boon Satyr's instant speed casting would be. The magic of this list is the fact that with 3 mana open, it can sit back and wait for the opponent to make a move before deciding whether to put the pedal down with Boon Satyr or counter a relevant spell with Temur Charm (which, when on the draw, often means countering a Polukranos or Siege Rhino). That type of ability is EXACTLY what the deck needed and it has performed wonderfully since making the changes. In the first game I played with the new list, I was up against G/B Constellation on the draw and countered a Siege Rhino on T4 and a Doomwake Giant on T5 before laying out my threats and getting ahead. The old list would have crumbled in that situation. Also, being able to flash in Boon Satyr and Stubborn Denial out of nowhere is a neat trick. Often times, the way the deck lines up, you can flash in a Boon Satyr at opponent's EOT then hit them for 8 out of a nowhere with a hasty Savage Knuckleblade on T4. These changes have made a world of difference in the deck's ability to not fall behind while being able to put on the pressure at a moment's notice. I am very pleased so far with it. Oh, and as for Thassa, God of the Sea - she's great for maintaining a steady stream of good draws while making sure other decks can't just get by with chump blocks (Hornet Queen, I'm looking at you). I've found a 1-of to be a nice trump in many games.
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
As I stated in my post above, Boon Satyr is the card that allows us to keep Temur Charm mana open. I've actually been using the mana leak mode the most out of everything so far. Everybody is so eager to tap out for Siege Rhinos and Doomwake Giants that we can quickly and efficiently turn their gameplan on its head. Or if they don't do anything, flash in Boon Satyr and make them tap out for removal, then follow up with maybe a hasty Savage Knuckleblade and start the beatdown. It's this kind of adaptability that I'm finding to be the key to the deck. If the game is getting so out of hand that I need to use the 3rd mode, then the deck wasn't running optimally haha....though it is good in a pinch.
Mainly mana base consistency and the fact that he kept tinkering with some really slow, awkward midrangey builds that completely go against what Temur wants to do.
Today in modo, I went 7-2 overall in practice rounds and daily rounds, only losing to the usual misplays and variance. The deck is running quite well; took down Jeskai Tokens, Sidisi Whip etc.
3 Forest
3 Island
3 Mountain
2 Mana Confluence
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Frontier Bivouac
2 Temple of Abandon
2 Battlefield Forge
Creature (19)
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Warden of the First Tree
3 Flamewake Phoenix
3 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Whisperwood Elemental
3 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Crater's Claws
2 Anger of the Gods
Enchantment (6)
3 Frontier Siege
3 Monastery Siege
Instant (8)
3 Reality Shift
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Wild Slash
4 Naturalize
2 Wild Slash
3 Lighting Strike
1 Stubborn Denial
3 Magma Spray
2 Stoke the Flames
What does Warden of the First Tree even do here?
Anger of the Gods and Flamewake Phoenix is a non-bo.
And I realized that about Flamewake Phoenix and Anger of the Gods, but figured the gain would be more than the loss
You've got 4 mana sources (plus 4 caryatid) to pump Warder of the First Tree. He's usually going to just be a 1/1 for 1, which is pretty anemic. I'd cut him for literally anything else.
I keep trying to find some kind of haste mechanic for all my creatures, but the only ones that come to mind are Hammer of Purphoros and Temur Ascendancy, both of which take a turn away from the gameplan kf hitting hard, fast, and on curve. I've yhought about putting in a couple copies of Ascendancy, because t3 Ascendancy into t4 Polukranos seems pretty good. That also frees up a land for a mid/late game Savage Knuckleblade to pump or bounce out of danger
The shaman is also used for the card draw portion as well, what temur lacked was heavy card draw. Temur ascendancy was okay for 1 for 1. But the shaman itself can be used without applying board presence and it is as instant speed. Which is very good in a mobile creature. Whether you draw 1 card or 2 cards with knuckle/boon satyr/polukranos. It still replaced itself as well as giving you a +1. T3-T5 isn't really considered late game that you are applying this pressure.
I haven't tested Shaman yet but the 2 toughness just seems bad. Frost Walker in some games for me has been awesome but others it's terrible, still not sure about it. Monastery Siege out of the SB is still in testing but seems good vs control and burn.
What would you take out for him? Polukranos or Ashcloud Phoenix? His ability seems great with flyers but having both him and Polukranos makes the deck incredibly weak to Anger of the Gods.
I usually don't care about anger since my version runs whisperwood. But in other cases, their argument would be having denial or charm back up.
Whisperwood Elemental doesn't die to Anger of the Gods, yet you can't sac and get a bunch of tokens when your stuff dies -- since they're exiled instead.
Not sure if this is the interaction you were referring to.
The game's definition of "die" is for a creature to go from the battlefield to the graveyard. Anger of the Gods says that it is exiled instead of going to the graveyard. So it never dies. That's why Ashcloud Phoenix doesn't come back and other dies triggers also don't go off.
Mysential, I wouldn't call Siege Rhino "irrelevant." We do have trouble punching through it without Knux, Heir, or a flier. Knux can't even get through if we tap out to play this guy. Shaman can't at all, and maybe trading with a courser is ok but getting walled by Rhino feels bad. Polukranos is a threat that has to be answered because it stomps all over all of their creatures. I do want to try him Shaman with more evasive creatures like the 3-drop Phoenix.
Temur Charm also gets a lot worse when your creature dies in the process, and our removal against midrange decks is already pretty bad.
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Heir of the Wilds
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Shaman of the Great Hunt
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Temur Charm
4 Crater's Claws
Lands (23)
2 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Frontier Bivouac
3 Mana Confluence
2 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Epiphany
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
More cards to be considered :
Frost Walker - Earliest and cheapest ferocious enabler.
Monastery Siege - Serves Stubborn Denial as protection against spot removals.
Yasova Dragonclaw - Steals Mantis Rider, Fanatic of Xenagos, Fleeceman Lion, to name a few.
Collateral Damage - Best combo with Yasova Dragonclaw. Mana efficient for that final 3 damage.
Wild Slash - Shock functional reprint I would say. A small burn good enough to clear the board for our cheap and big guys to go through.
Temur Battle Rage - A 4 power double strike and trample is something worth considering.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG