Yes.. it and red is the reason I ultimately dropped the deck (and some of the GB decks although I imagine that might be more about the size I was trying). There is no really good equalizer in these sort of matchups. I even tried stuff specifically to deal with getting flanked by x/1's like Hornet Nest, Arc Lightning, Scouring Sands, etc.. the problem is you need atleast a certain number of these cards to be on the proactive plan. Holding up permission is only ok, because then if you aren't doing enough Butcher will kill you. Their deck is just big enough that you can rely on red removal to pull you out, and in so you are in this awkward position of basically being the aggressor even though their deck is more aggressive. Or in the case of the green matchups they have no intention of attacking you so as long as they can make attacks awkward they have time to just go way over the top. Often enough you can get under the opposing green with Burn/Hunt the Hunter but if you stumble (let's say not perfect mana for Knuckleblade, and they went first with an elf) maybe you've already lost.
Don't get me wrong I love the timing of the Temur deck, I just think it's inability to play proactive threats that are good against more aggressive strategies is a bit of a weakness. Obviously being bigger is good in itself there, but without the way to catch up from being flanked it's really easy for an opponent to leverage that. They don't even have to shoot big, just some x/1's. It's fine when you are the aggressor no one can touch you as when you are ahead you stay ahead. Like Temur Charm gets around getting flanked but it's only if you are in a position to win the game. Everything is a touch too time sensitive that it makes it hard to fall back into a nickel and dime sort of strategy that midrange decks opt to when it isn't going their way. Admittedly those grindier decks can't really break serve either but it can allow little more play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
It's basically Kibler's list from a few weeks ago with a couple of tweaks.
R1
Beat Rabble Red in three. In game three I got him to topdeck mode and me at 4 before I killed him. A single burn spell would have been match.
R2
Lost to a homebrew RW Heroic deck. His guys just got too big too quick. He steamrolled me. Even with all the burn I had... The match was full of plays like this:
R3
Lost to Jeskai Tempo. I don't feel too bad about it because his list was running maindeck Suspension Field (bye bye Polukranos) and lots of counters.
All in all, very poor showing for this deck last night. I'll stick with it for next week but if I keep dying to red I think I'll just have to do something a little less tempo-oriented.
Yeah, I dropped the deck last night. Trying black in place of blue for more proactive ways of dealing with threats, in addition to thoughtseize. Also deathdealer is the real deal. Right now if my lgs stays the same, we have about 5-6 uw heroic decks floating around so I'm trying my best to combat this as I constantly lose to it.
Yeah, I dropped the deck last night. Trying black in place of blue for more proactive ways of dealing with threats, in addition to thoughtseize. Also deathdealer is the real deal. Right now if my lgs stays the same, we have about 5-6 uw heroic decks floating around so I'm trying my best to combat this as I constantly lose to it.
had an okay run with temur going 16-10.
Very sad
Yep. We did very well when Abzan was king, but now that it's losing market share it might be time to head back to the drawing board.
Well, the deck has decent to good matchup against most decks in the format, but I have been having trouble with Mardu. Maybe a solution is to make a hybrid between Hoogland and Kibler's lists and replace the Rattleclaws with Caryatids, then add a few Dragons mainboard. I found that a big problem with Mardu was my mystics getting burned. I haven't played in a while but that's something I'm considering.
Agreed. I would say our match up against Mardu is 40-60, or even 45-55. So far my matches have been so close. If I were to expect to win in next turn, the opponent manage to kill first, or vice versa. But then, now that I think about it, all of my match up against Mardu, I lost whenever I'm on the draw on the first game.
The deck is missing straight up removal, we lack black and white so therefore have no answer for a thing that just gets out of hand/too big. Every other color combination has these things. So we'll end up losing to blue/white heroic decks (a turn 2 4/5 favored hoplite on the draw), and other things that just outclass red's removal ability, and we don't have the mana to pump out craters claws for 5+
It's why i've been either thinking about different colors (Naya, or Bant), or different cards that could help, things like bounce, or more counter spells. Right now the deck I have is to basically get a big creature down, and support him with counterspells for their removal, however its a 50/50 game, and since i have to be the proactive one it ends up basically losing to token strategies, and things that get bigger than it. The biggest problem cards I would say are Hornet Queen, Crackling Doom, and Rabblemaster.
maybe that's where we should start, how to deal with the cards that present the biggest problems. It's why I've been so big on Anger of the gods, and feel the deck needs to move toward MORE midrange, because anger solves alot of the token problems, but kills our mana dorks; its the reason i wasn't so big on the boon satyr plan.
Against heroic decks, I would side in as many burn spells as possible and lower my curve. Kill those heroic creatures once they get in while slowly beating with Heir of the Wilds or Rattleclaw Mystic. The rest still manageable. Instead of Anger of the Gods, I would consider to add Arc Lightning in the sideboard to 3 copies. It is the best card against aggro, killing tokens and X/1 creatures.
Talking with a good local player, and he says go all-in on Anger. It may kill some of our guys, but those don't have to be on the field when it's played. Then can trade off with the red guys or still be in hand. Then we play Anger and they are short a few cards and we drop Polukranos and keep them out of the game. I've actually been thinking to put Courser of Kruphix in the sideboard to swap for Boon Satyr when bringing in defense. Or maybe as I'm seeing a lot of aggro, I should put them main and something else side. I was playing against Heroic, and at one point he actually had 4 guys on the field and Anger would have been excellent then.
For Crackling Doom, the only answer I can imagine is Stubborn Denial. (Or I could ensure Ashcloud Phoenix is the biggest creature.)
For Hornet Queen there's a ton of answers out there. Anger could be a good one as it also kills Voyaging Satyr, our most dangerous enemy, and if it's constellation, Eidolon of Blossoms. But to do that we'd have to ensure our game is not subject to excessive Anger. I'm not clear if we can, but this is a very different case from Anger against weenies. Against Weenies we win the long game, but against green they outgrow us so we have to be speedier.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
I think Temur can run Anger without any big setbacks; Knuckleblade, Poluk, and Stormbreath all survive it. Also, does Temur necessarily need Mana Confluence? One of the Santiago lists, Barros's, didn't run Confluence and managed 7th out of 660 participants, which doesn't sound that bad. Here is a link to his list, for the curious: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8418&d=248356&f=ST
Clever Impersonator is strictly sideboard material, I think. How did Anthony Lowry's Temur Monsters deck place? He did a video deck tech on SCG, but I didn't see a ranking.
Anger of the Gods is not a bad sideboard option, especially with Hornet Nest. Another possible option is Barrage of Boulders. As quoted by Brian Kibler, "Kind of like an Icy Blast that also has broader applications against token decks. Worth keeping in mind if those become popular."
I´ve been playing this deck as well, for quite a while. I won the KTK game day with it and the following two FNM´s in a row that came afterwards, plus i´m actually foiling it out since i like the deck so much (and RUG is my favorite 3 color combo) so expect to see me around for as long as this deck can be played
-anyone who is not playing Stormbreath over Sarkhan, is doing something wrong. Permanent ferocity enabler, pro butcher of the horde, mardu, jeskai AND abzan charm... it´s just better. I actually won the gameday cause i topdecked a dragon, whereas if it had been a sarkan i would have just hit for 4 and have it killed the following turn and then died.
-the lists that are playing courser and caryatid, i think probably shouldn´t be, at least not in temur agro. Courser is not the beater you want to have, although i actually like the thought of it in the side against aggressive decks, as i´ve read someone post here. It´s an interesting idea. This deck doesn´t gain life at all, and usually has(at least i have)a tough time with the land department. And getting to see more cards is obviously good, but ultimately i´m searching for a configuration with a good response to problematic cards and problematic decks, so lists containing any number of either, i automatically just skip
-Heir of the wilds is super strong. Basically auto 4 of in my mind, but that of course is what most people realized. I don´t think i´ve ever changed a number of copies up to 4 in a deck, as fast, as with this card. It connect early and mid-late game really well. In a deck wanting to play 4 power creatures, heir is exactly what the deck need to apply early pressure and to survive until you´re able to play your other creatures. It´s an incredible defensive and offensive creature. If you´re defending with a knucklebade... you probably are in need of more time. if you are defending with heir, it probably means that they have to kill it or else they wont win.
"Matchupwise"
-green/x devotion is a pretty bad matchup. They outclass your threats so easily. Basically if you don´t land a threat early, you´re in trouble. Hornet queen is the main issue. Polukranos and arbor colossus can be stopped with heir of the wilds (which is like the 2nd most important card against the deck). It can get in early damage and if you get multiples you can attack with one and leave one back to block. Most likely, the game will come down to a clogged board where you have to draw either a huge craters claw or a temur charm to swing with your flyers like ashcloud and stormbreath (which i hope you have), so of course, a great sideboard is needed.
In this case, i´ve seen barrage of boulders in some sideboards, which is ok but it mainly just kills elvish mystics and 1/1 deathtouch tokens. But I´d rather play anger of the gods to deal with the queen, the caryatids and the voyaging satyrs. Barrage of boulders is probably better as a topdeck than charm anyways because if you have a 4 power creature you might win on the spot, but the mana leak mode might make temur charm better just because of hornet queen.
Disdainful stroke is probably THE best card in sideboards, because if you plan land a early threat, preferably a knuckleblade, you can steer the game by countering the relevant cards and deploying your other threats as needed.
Hunt the hunter isn´t mentioned enough. Helps killing coursers, mana dorks, polukranos, and the likes. Also great against abzan.
Lastly hornet nest is another card i´m looking at. It´s great mostly against aggro, but it´s basically another heir of the wilds against green devotion. Unfortunately it doesn´t attack so it´s not that great, but it allows your creatures to "not have to block". You can also make it fight arbor colossi and polukranos just to get the tokens, as well as crater clawing it (only if extremely necessary, of course). it might very well be the "sideboard tech card", but it´s definitely not what you want to play turn 3 except against mono red.
-Abzan is pretty easy actually i think. Of course, rhino is a problem if you can´t kill it fast, since it enables roc the following turn, plus it´s real hard to play defense so early in the game. Outside of polukranos, almost nothing stops this thing. Yes, knuckles´s +2/+2 ability helps but, how long can you keep that going against removal, elspeths, sorins, more rhinos, etc? . Early thoughtseizes and efficient removal is a problem. But since they play so many tap lands and your threats are mostly bigger than theirs plus you´re playing denials, it should not be a problem.
-Mardu is a tough matchup. Problematic cards include: Elspeth, hordeling outburst, cackling doom, butcher (chained to the rocks can be a problem). I´ve lost to it 2 of the 3 times i played against it (mainly because of the mulligans to 5 and him killing my threats). the game i won was extremely close. The deck can deal a lot of damage with butchers and rocs and stuff. I actually sided in anger of the gods against my opponent who later said it was probably incorrect to do. It only kills rabbelmaster and hordeling outpost tokens. He was most likely right. The thing is, i have no idea how to sideboard against this deck. Usually just side in disdainful stroke´s and pray i draw a stormbreath and he either doesn´t have the cackling doom or i have a stubborn denial in hand as well.
This is what i would want to bring to locals and to a tournament. Would Rattleclaw be neccessary at all? Playing 8 mana dorks seems to be enough, would 10 just make it worse as a topdeck? Or is there any different in playing 4 rattleclaw to caryatids?
I´d actually consider playing rattleclaw OVER mystic in your build. Yes you can do t2 knuckleblade with mystic, but since your list is much more "midrangy", rattleclaw is probably better. It lets you turn 4 polukranos if you play it unmorphed, turn 4 surrak or stormbreath if you morph (and leaves you with 1 mana for denial, which is actually relevant since you play 4 maindeck), fixes mana and also can attack pretty well. Also, since you don´t have boon satyr, elvish mystic doesn´t do anything aside from t2 knucklebalde, that rattleclaw can´t do (t3 polukranos t4 dragon/surrak). I guess there is also t1 mystic into t2 morph rattleclaw and t3 you have 6 mana available, which still allows that play with denial backup. Don´t know how often it will happen though...
4 dig is probably too much, i´d play more temur charm, since it´s actually gets better with 4 polukranos, 3 dragon 2 surrak in the deck, this list is slightly slower, and because you´re never going to get to see that 1 copy you already have without scrying (plus digging through time to get it, is very situational)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
ill take out the mystics for rattleclaws. I was thinking about 4 rattle, 4 caryatids. But i thought the mystics into t2 knuckleblade would be better in a swiss tournament where speed is key.
Ill take out a dig for another temur charm? I don't know how much 3 mana i will always have up, since im planning on playing setessan in the SB. Since i should always be tapping out a huge guy.
I was thinking of magma jet over strike. Since i have ferocious, i can just crater's claw any 3 toughness guy for 2, and 4 toughness for 3. But space won't allow me for 4 crater's claw unless i cut out denials, i do want some amount of soft permission in the deck to protect myself from board wipes. I think crater's claw is really good cost wise MB, but i do need instant speed removal + board wipe for mono red.
I disagee. Lategame Elvish Mystic is meh, but midgame it's better than rattleclaw because you still are trying to squeeze out your spells. In that situation, ramp is good either way, and the elf can more easily get played out to give that extra ramp. I prefer elf and rattleclaw.
Actually, given this list you will get rolled over by hyperaggro strategies. If you keep your spell count that high, be sure to add something to kill multiples, including possibly Anger. It potentially kills 2 of your guys but actually you will only play one out, block something, then sweep.
I disagee. Lategame Elvish Mystic is meh, but midgame it's better than rattleclaw because you still are trying to squeeze out your spells. In that situation, ramp is good either way, and the elf can more easily get played out to give that extra ramp. I prefer elf and rattleclaw.
Actually, given this list you will get rolled over by hyperaggro strategies. If you keep your spell count that high, be sure to add something to kill multiples, including possibly Anger. It potentially kills 2 of your guys but actually you will only play one out, block something, then sweep.
I Have built so that I would have a disadvantage against hyper aggro. Thats why I put 4 magma sprays and 3 anger sb. I should have a 50-50 against g/b, and very good odds of 60-40 against heroic, followed by a 40-60 to u/b control.
Went 2-0-1 (3rd place) with that build last night. Really should have been 3-0. My second opponent played an aggro deck but spent forever shuffling and sideboarding between rounds. He ended up ahead of me (2nd place) on tiebreakers at the end of the night, too. I was a touch rankled by that.
Round 1 - Jeskai Tempo
Game one: Spent the early part of the game with him playing Rabblemasters and Mantis Riders. I was burning them away and eventually stabilized the board state. He managed to draw enough bounce to stretch out the game long enough that he finished me off by burning me out.
Game two: He was mana screwed.
Game three: Same as game one, but he didn't top deck the bounce he needed, so I was easily able to push through for the win. Stubborn Denial of his Ascendancy was the nail in the coffin.
Sideboard: - 2 Courser, +2 Unravel the Aether
Round 2 - UW Aggro
Game one: Got bowled over by a surge of cheap enchantment and heroic triggers on an evasive creature. Was never really in it.
Game two: Burned out a couple of his early drops and played a Hornet Nest. Built up my board presence a bit and hit my own Nest with a Crater's Claws for 6. Never looked back.
Game three: Didn't finish.
Sideboard: -2 Polukranos, -2 Courser, +2 Unravel the Aether, +2 Ashcloud Phoenix
Round 3 - Jeskai Combo
Game one: This was a long one, and I was stuck at 2 or 3 life for a lot of it. I managed to gain control of the board and top decked a Stubborn Denial right before he top decked a Jeskai Charm that would have finished me off. Stormbreath saved my butt in this game. Hurray for pro-white.
Game two: Basically went like game two from the previous round... Early burn, Nest, Anger, and counter everything else while dropping threats.
Sideboard: -2 Courser, +2 Unravel the Aether
Here's the plan:
Anger to wreck weenie and token strategies, including Mardu (also kills Elspeth and Sorin tokens) and devotion (Voyaging Satyr, Hornet Queen).
Back to Nature to destroy enchantment strategies (heroic and constellation especially).
Curse of the Swine to ruin power creature strategies (Butcher, Roc, Rhino, Heroic, monsters). Synergy with Anger!
Disdainful stroke to counter various problem cards.
Icy Blast to close out the game in a hurry, or survive in a pinch.
Then Surrak and Stormbreath to plow through any remaining resistance.
Edit: first run went 2-2. Icy Blast was an absolute allstar in 3 matches. The fourth was UB control. They dont have things to tap. Back to Nature took out a pair of demons and a 2/1. The loss to RGW midrange was very close. Abzan whip and Black aggro were so thoroughly blown away (reasonable draws on their part) it makes me wonder if the sideboard needs adjusting.
The loss to UB control was a disaster of deck drawing. G1
I got no threats with power > 2 until it was too late. Game 2 I sided out elves and drew all my expensive threats but only 3 land. Also, Annul is a card? Seems like cheating vs my 3 enchantments, but it ruins the tempo of EOT boon satyr, BOT threat.
Here's the plan:
Anger to wreck weenie and token strategies, including Mardu (also kills Elspeth and Sorin tokens) and devotion (Voyaging Satyr, Hornet Queen).
Back to Nature to destroy enchantment strategies (heroic and constellation especially).
Curse of the Swine to ruin power creature strategies (Butcher, Roc, Rhino, Heroic, monsters). Synergy with Anger!
Disdainful stroke to counter various problem cards.
Icy Blast to close out the game in a hurry, or survive in a pinch.
Then Surrak and Stormbreath to plow through any remaining resistance.
Edit: first run went 2-2. Icy Blast was an absolute allstar in 3 matches. The fourth was UB control. They dont have things to tap. Back to Nature took out a pair of demons and a 2/1. The loss to RGW midrange was very close. Abzan whip and Black aggro were so thoroughly blown away (reasonable draws on their part) it makes me wonder if the sideboard needs adjusting.
The loss to UB control was a disaster of deck drawing. G1
I got no threats with power > 2 until it was too late. Game 2 I sided out elves and drew all my expensive threats but only 3 land. Also, Annul is a card? Seems like cheating vs my 3 enchantments, but it ruins the tempo of EOT boon satyr, BOT threat.
I really don't get Kiora's Follower over something like Rattleclaw Mystic or Sylvan Caryatid. You don't have Yisan or Nykthos to abuse, so it's a really bad version of Mystic/Caryatid in this deck, with an "upside" of giving a creature pseudo-vigilance, which IMHO is NOT worth the card slot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Nocturnal God of Chaos of The Æsir Probably the most random person you will ever meet. Trust me on this one. Well, I'm off to poop.
Oh, my username is the same on Xbox and Cockatrice, add me!
"For some of us, easier Magic is good Magic, but if you are one of those 'intelligent types,' feel free to play your Hive Mind mirrors. The rest of us are here for the fireworks." - Kent Ketter
Playing in Type 2...BGRJundHearted
I took it as an answer to Rabblemaster, but possibly I don't need that answer any more given other changes I've made. To compare it with the Mystic, it's 2/2 vs 2/1, and instead of giving any color, it gives any color from among your lands. Late game it's clearly superior as a card than lets your 9/7 Polukranos both attack (getting chumped) and block.
In the end I think the color fixing is more critical so back to Rattleclaw I'll go.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
How did you board against UW control? That seems like the exact matchup you want those sideboard cards in. Except for the mountain, not really sure what's up with that.
Well yeah but then if you have another dragon, Knuckleblade, or burn you can kill Elspeth.
I usually side out my elves since they don't do a whole lot in that matchup. I side out burn too, mainly strikes when I ran them since they don't do much. This list seems to be heavier in the burn plan so I guess it's ok. I think Polukranos is too good to side out because he is a huge threat. Looking at that list I would probably go:
-4 elf
-3 strike
-1 bow
-1 stoke
-1 scry land
+3 revelry
+3 stroke
+2 denial
+2 dragon
But that is just me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Don't get me wrong I love the timing of the Temur deck, I just think it's inability to play proactive threats that are good against more aggressive strategies is a bit of a weakness. Obviously being bigger is good in itself there, but without the way to catch up from being flanked it's really easy for an opponent to leverage that. They don't even have to shoot big, just some x/1's. It's fine when you are the aggressor no one can touch you as when you are ahead you stay ahead. Like Temur Charm gets around getting flanked but it's only if you are in a position to win the game. Everything is a touch too time sensitive that it makes it hard to fall back into a nickel and dime sort of strategy that midrange decks opt to when it isn't going their way. Admittedly those grindier decks can't really break serve either but it can allow little more play.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Boon Satyr
3 Elvish Mystic
4 Heir of the Wilds
1 Polis Crusher
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Instants & Sorceries (9):
4 Crater's Claws
4 Lightning Strike
1 Temur Charm
3 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Yavimaya Coast
1 Shivan Reef
2 Mana Confluence
1 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Arc Lightning
2 Back to Nature
2 Disdainful Stroke
3 Hunt the Hunter
2 Magma Spray
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
It's basically Kibler's list from a few weeks ago with a couple of tweaks.
R1
Beat Rabble Red in three. In game three I got him to topdeck mode and me at 4 before I killed him. A single burn spell would have been match.
R2
Lost to a homebrew RW Heroic deck. His guys just got too big too quick. He steamrolled me. Even with all the burn I had... The match was full of plays like this:
Him: EOT, Defiant Strike my Favored Hoplite.
Me: Magma Spray.
Him: Gods Willing naming Red.
Me: Lightning Strike.
Him: Ajani's Presence.
Like WTF>??? Lol
R3
Lost to Jeskai Tempo. I don't feel too bad about it because his list was running maindeck Suspension Field (bye bye Polukranos) and lots of counters.
All in all, very poor showing for this deck last night. I'll stick with it for next week but if I keep dying to red I think I'll just have to do something a little less tempo-oriented.
had an okay run with temur going 16-10.
(246-174-26)
Yep. We did very well when Abzan was king, but now that it's losing market share it might be time to head back to the drawing board.
(246-174-26)
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
It's why i've been either thinking about different colors (Naya, or Bant), or different cards that could help, things like bounce, or more counter spells. Right now the deck I have is to basically get a big creature down, and support him with counterspells for their removal, however its a 50/50 game, and since i have to be the proactive one it ends up basically losing to token strategies, and things that get bigger than it. The biggest problem cards I would say are Hornet Queen, Crackling Doom, and Rabblemaster.
maybe that's where we should start, how to deal with the cards that present the biggest problems. It's why I've been so big on Anger of the gods, and feel the deck needs to move toward MORE midrange, because anger solves alot of the token problems, but kills our mana dorks; its the reason i wasn't so big on the boon satyr plan.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Talking with a good local player, and he says go all-in on Anger. It may kill some of our guys, but those don't have to be on the field when it's played. Then can trade off with the red guys or still be in hand. Then we play Anger and they are short a few cards and we drop Polukranos and keep them out of the game. I've actually been thinking to put Courser of Kruphix in the sideboard to swap for Boon Satyr when bringing in defense. Or maybe as I'm seeing a lot of aggro, I should put them main and something else side. I was playing against Heroic, and at one point he actually had 4 guys on the field and Anger would have been excellent then.
For Crackling Doom, the only answer I can imagine is Stubborn Denial. (Or I could ensure Ashcloud Phoenix is the biggest creature.)
For Hornet Queen there's a ton of answers out there. Anger could be a good one as it also kills Voyaging Satyr, our most dangerous enemy, and if it's constellation, Eidolon of Blossoms. But to do that we'd have to ensure our game is not subject to excessive Anger. I'm not clear if we can, but this is a very different case from Anger against weenies. Against Weenies we win the long game, but against green they outgrow us so we have to be speedier.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Clever Impersonator is strictly sideboard material, I think. How did Anthony Lowry's Temur Monsters deck place? He did a video deck tech on SCG, but I didn't see a ranking.
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Frontier Bivouac
2 Mana Confluence
2 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Epiphany
4 Forest
3 Mountain
1 Island
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Boon Satyr
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Hornet Nest
3 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Stubborn Denial
3 Lightning Strike
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Crater's Claws
The Hornet Nests are main because of a heavy aggro presence at my shop.
Anger of the Gods is not a bad sideboard option, especially with Hornet Nest. Another possible option is Barrage of Boulders. As quoted by Brian Kibler, "Kind of like an Icy Blast that also has broader applications against token decks. Worth keeping in mind if those become popular."
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
I´ve been playing this deck as well, for quite a while. I won the KTK game day with it and the following two FNM´s in a row that came afterwards, plus i´m actually foiling it out since i like the deck so much (and RUG is my favorite 3 color combo) so expect to see me around for as long as this deck can be played
i´m glad people are at least coming to the same conclusions as i am. I also hate hornet queen, elspeth, crackling doom, arbor colossus and the likes :p.
In my mind though:
-anyone who is not playing Stormbreath over Sarkhan, is doing something wrong. Permanent ferocity enabler, pro butcher of the horde, mardu, jeskai AND abzan charm... it´s just better. I actually won the gameday cause i topdecked a dragon, whereas if it had been a sarkan i would have just hit for 4 and have it killed the following turn and then died.
-the lists that are playing courser and caryatid, i think probably shouldn´t be, at least not in temur agro. Courser is not the beater you want to have, although i actually like the thought of it in the side against aggressive decks, as i´ve read someone post here. It´s an interesting idea. This deck doesn´t gain life at all, and usually has(at least i have)a tough time with the land department. And getting to see more cards is obviously good, but ultimately i´m searching for a configuration with a good response to problematic cards and problematic decks, so lists containing any number of either, i automatically just skip
-Heir of the wilds is super strong. Basically auto 4 of in my mind, but that of course is what most people realized. I don´t think i´ve ever changed a number of copies up to 4 in a deck, as fast, as with this card. It connect early and mid-late game really well. In a deck wanting to play 4 power creatures, heir is exactly what the deck need to apply early pressure and to survive until you´re able to play your other creatures. It´s an incredible defensive and offensive creature. If you´re defending with a knucklebade... you probably are in need of more time. if you are defending with heir, it probably means that they have to kill it or else they wont win.
"Matchupwise"
-green/x devotion is a pretty bad matchup. They outclass your threats so easily. Basically if you don´t land a threat early, you´re in trouble. Hornet queen is the main issue. Polukranos and arbor colossus can be stopped with heir of the wilds (which is like the 2nd most important card against the deck). It can get in early damage and if you get multiples you can attack with one and leave one back to block. Most likely, the game will come down to a clogged board where you have to draw either a huge craters claw or a temur charm to swing with your flyers like ashcloud and stormbreath (which i hope you have), so of course, a great sideboard is needed.
In this case, i´ve seen barrage of boulders in some sideboards, which is ok but it mainly just kills elvish mystics and 1/1 deathtouch tokens. But I´d rather play anger of the gods to deal with the queen, the caryatids and the voyaging satyrs. Barrage of boulders is probably better as a topdeck than charm anyways because if you have a 4 power creature you might win on the spot, but the mana leak mode might make temur charm better just because of hornet queen.
Disdainful stroke is probably THE best card in sideboards, because if you plan land a early threat, preferably a knuckleblade, you can steer the game by countering the relevant cards and deploying your other threats as needed.
Hunt the hunter isn´t mentioned enough. Helps killing coursers, mana dorks, polukranos, and the likes. Also great against abzan.
Lastly hornet nest is another card i´m looking at. It´s great mostly against aggro, but it´s basically another heir of the wilds against green devotion. Unfortunately it doesn´t attack so it´s not that great, but it allows your creatures to "not have to block". You can also make it fight arbor colossi and polukranos just to get the tokens, as well as crater clawing it (only if extremely necessary, of course). it might very well be the "sideboard tech card", but it´s definitely not what you want to play turn 3 except against mono red.
-Abzan is pretty easy actually i think. Of course, rhino is a problem if you can´t kill it fast, since it enables roc the following turn, plus it´s real hard to play defense so early in the game. Outside of polukranos, almost nothing stops this thing. Yes, knuckles´s +2/+2 ability helps but, how long can you keep that going against removal, elspeths, sorins, more rhinos, etc? . Early thoughtseizes and efficient removal is a problem. But since they play so many tap lands and your threats are mostly bigger than theirs plus you´re playing denials, it should not be a problem.
-Mardu is a tough matchup. Problematic cards include: Elspeth, hordeling outburst, cackling doom, butcher (chained to the rocks can be a problem). I´ve lost to it 2 of the 3 times i played against it (mainly because of the mulligans to 5 and him killing my threats). the game i won was extremely close. The deck can deal a lot of damage with butchers and rocs and stuff. I actually sided in anger of the gods against my opponent who later said it was probably incorrect to do. It only kills rabbelmaster and hordeling outpost tokens. He was most likely right. The thing is, i have no idea how to sideboard against this deck. Usually just side in disdainful stroke´s and pray i draw a stormbreath and he either doesn´t have the cackling doom or i have a stubborn denial in hand as well.
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
4 Lightning Strike
2 Crater's Claw
1 Temur Charm
4 Stubborn Denial
4 Dig through Time
Lands: 24
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Temple of Epiphany
4 Yamivaya Coast
4 Shivan Reef
2 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Island
This is what i would want to bring to locals and to a tournament. Would Rattleclaw be neccessary at all? Playing 8 mana dorks seems to be enough, would 10 just make it worse as a topdeck? Or is there any different in playing 4 rattleclaw to caryatids?
4 dig is probably too much, i´d play more temur charm, since it´s actually gets better with 4 polukranos, 3 dragon 2 surrak in the deck, this list is slightly slower, and because you´re never going to get to see that 1 copy you already have without scrying (plus digging through time to get it, is very situational)
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
ill take out the mystics for rattleclaws. I was thinking about 4 rattle, 4 caryatids. But i thought the mystics into t2 knuckleblade would be better in a swiss tournament where speed is key.
Ill take out a dig for another temur charm? I don't know how much 3 mana i will always have up, since im planning on playing setessan in the SB. Since i should always be tapping out a huge guy.
I was thinking of magma jet over strike. Since i have ferocious, i can just crater's claw any 3 toughness guy for 2, and 4 toughness for 3. But space won't allow me for 4 crater's claw unless i cut out denials, i do want some amount of soft permission in the deck to protect myself from board wipes. I think crater's claw is really good cost wise MB, but i do need instant speed removal + board wipe for mono red.
Actually, given this list you will get rolled over by hyperaggro strategies. If you keep your spell count that high, be sure to add something to kill multiples, including possibly Anger. It potentially kills 2 of your guys but actually you will only play one out, block something, then sweep.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I Have built so that I would have a disadvantage against hyper aggro. Thats why I put 4 magma sprays and 3 anger sb. I should have a 50-50 against g/b, and very good odds of 60-40 against heroic, followed by a 40-60 to u/b control.
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Frontier Bivouac
2 Mana Confluence
2 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Epiphany
4 Forest
3 Mountain
1 Island
Creatures
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Boon Satyr
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Hornet Nest
3 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Stubborn Denial
3 Lightning Strike
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Crater's Claws
2 Unravel the Æther
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Polymorphist's Jest
1 Turn To Frog
2 Disdainful Stroke
3 Savage Punch
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
Went 2-0-1 (3rd place) with that build last night. Really should have been 3-0. My second opponent played an aggro deck but spent forever shuffling and sideboarding between rounds. He ended up ahead of me (2nd place) on tiebreakers at the end of the night, too. I was a touch rankled by that.
Round 1 - Jeskai Tempo
Game one: Spent the early part of the game with him playing Rabblemasters and Mantis Riders. I was burning them away and eventually stabilized the board state. He managed to draw enough bounce to stretch out the game long enough that he finished me off by burning me out.
Game two: He was mana screwed.
Game three: Same as game one, but he didn't top deck the bounce he needed, so I was easily able to push through for the win. Stubborn Denial of his Ascendancy was the nail in the coffin.
Sideboard: - 2 Courser, +2 Unravel the Aether
Round 2 - UW Aggro
Game one: Got bowled over by a surge of cheap enchantment and heroic triggers on an evasive creature. Was never really in it.
Game two: Burned out a couple of his early drops and played a Hornet Nest. Built up my board presence a bit and hit my own Nest with a Crater's Claws for 6. Never looked back.
Game three: Didn't finish.
Sideboard: -2 Polukranos, -2 Courser, +2 Unravel the Aether, +2 Ashcloud Phoenix
Round 3 - Jeskai Combo
Game one: This was a long one, and I was stuck at 2 or 3 life for a lot of it. I managed to gain control of the board and top decked a Stubborn Denial right before he top decked a Jeskai Charm that would have finished me off. Stormbreath saved my butt in this game. Hurray for pro-white.
Game two: Basically went like game two from the previous round... Early burn, Nest, Anger, and counter everything else while dropping threats.
Sideboard: -2 Courser, +2 Unravel the Aether
2x Forest
4x Frontier Bivouac
1x Island
1x Mana Confluence
3x Mountain
1x Shivan Reef
1x Temple of Abandon
2x Temple of Mystery
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Yavimaya Coast
Creature (25)
3x Boon Satyr
3x Elvish Mystic
4x Heir of the Wilds
4x Kiora's Follower
2x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Savage Knuckleblade
4x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Surrak Dragonclaw
2x Arc Lightning
4x Crater's Claws
2x Icy Blast
4x Stubborn Denial
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Back to Nature
3x Curse of the Swine
3x Disdainful Stroke
2x Icy Blast
1x Polukranos
1x Surrak Dragonclaw
Here's the plan:
Anger to wreck weenie and token strategies, including Mardu (also kills Elspeth and Sorin tokens) and devotion (Voyaging Satyr, Hornet Queen).
Back to Nature to destroy enchantment strategies (heroic and constellation especially).
Curse of the Swine to ruin power creature strategies (Butcher, Roc, Rhino, Heroic, monsters). Synergy with Anger!
Disdainful stroke to counter various problem cards.
Icy Blast to close out the game in a hurry, or survive in a pinch.
Then Surrak and Stormbreath to plow through any remaining resistance.
Edit: first run went 2-2. Icy Blast was an absolute allstar in 3 matches. The fourth was UB control. They dont have things to tap. Back to Nature took out a pair of demons and a 2/1. The loss to RGW midrange was very close. Abzan whip and Black aggro were so thoroughly blown away (reasonable draws on their part) it makes me wonder if the sideboard needs adjusting.
The loss to UB control was a disaster of deck drawing. G1
I got no threats with power > 2 until it was too late. Game 2 I sided out elves and drew all my expensive threats but only 3 land. Also, Annul is a card? Seems like cheating vs my 3 enchantments, but it ruins the tempo of EOT boon satyr, BOT threat.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I really don't get Kiora's Follower over something like Rattleclaw Mystic or Sylvan Caryatid. You don't have Yisan or Nykthos to abuse, so it's a really bad version of Mystic/Caryatid in this deck, with an "upside" of giving a creature pseudo-vigilance, which IMHO is NOT worth the card slot.
Oh, my username is the same on Xbox and Cockatrice, add me!
"For some of us, easier Magic is good Magic, but if you are one of those 'intelligent types,' feel free to play your Hive Mind mirrors. The rest of us are here for the fireworks." - Kent Ketter
Playing in Type 2...BGRJundHearted
In the end I think the color fixing is more critical so back to Rattleclaw I'll go.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I usually side out my elves since they don't do a whole lot in that matchup. I side out burn too, mainly strikes when I ran them since they don't do much. This list seems to be heavier in the burn plan so I guess it's ok. I think Polukranos is too good to side out because he is a huge threat. Looking at that list I would probably go:
-4 elf
-3 strike
-1 bow
-1 stoke
-1 scry land
+3 revelry
+3 stroke
+2 denial
+2 dragon
But that is just me.