Introduction
This deck was originally created by me and a friend of mine after constellation was revealed in Journey into Nyx. If you couldn't have guessed, Athreos, God of Passage played a central role in the development of the deck. It was loosely based off of Death and Taxes from the modern and legacy world. It was designed to take over a board by removing threats and punishing opponents from breaking your lock. It excelled at breaking down control decks and grinding midrange decks down to a crawl. Before the rotation it played like a B/W control deck that focused on early hand destruction with Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot and then slowly whittled down your opponent and would use a big finisher like Archangel of Thune, Obzedat, Ghost Counsel or Shadowborne Demon to close out the game. Sadly, all of the previous game enders have rotated out.
Khans of Takir is now here and it has brought incredible mana fixing and some devastatingly powerful 4 drops in the colors of Mardu and Abzan. This primer takes the old B/W build and updates it to take advantage the new mana fixing to splash G or R to bring in more options. Does this mean that B/W is not an option? Absolutely not and I will talk about it more below.
The Core
The core of this deck is made up by hand removal and enchantment creatures that all synergies together. The two most important cards as I alluded to above are Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot. This early, unadulterated hand destruction is gross and normally sets you opponent back several turns. Next are Grim Guardian and Underworld Coinsmith. These two cards are basically your engines. With 1 or 2 of these guys down, almost every play you make dose damage to your opponent or gains you life while breaking down their hand (Brain Maggot), removing their threats (Banishing Light), stopping their attacks (Nyx-fleece Ram) or protecting all your creatures (Athreos, God of Passage).
The Flesh is Weak
This is a personal choice, but I am most excited by the R splash in the deck. There are 3 reasons for my excitement. Number one is this bad boy: Butcher of the Horde. Ignoring his ability, he is a 5/4 flyer for 4, which is damn good. But then you realize he gives 2 devotion to Athreos, God of Passage and then you further realize the stupid-awesome synergy between the butchers activated ability and athreos's triggered ability. You mean I get to sac a creature, force my opponent to either pay 3 life or I get the option to recast a creature and trigger constellation again and hit them with a 5/4 flyer? Sounds awesome! This is my finisher of choice since we lost ghost dad and the archangel.
Reason 2 and 3 are Mardu Charm and Crackling Doom. The charm is great versatile removal, it is also instant speed hand destruction! The tokens are less important, but they can be handy for Butcher fodder or even surprise blocks. Crackling Doom is just late game awesomeness. If you noticed our ability to block on the ground is very strong with many 4+ toughness creatures. You know what creature really makes me sad? Sagu Mauler. Well crackling doom fixes that and in a pitch crackling doom can help finish off a game with 2 damage to the face! Also you know you wanna make your opponent sacrifice Sarkhan, Dragonspeaker after he +1s.
Mardu Ascendancy has also caught my eye, but I am not sure how useful it will be. This deck doesn't swing a huge amount but it does work its ground game after clearing the way with removal. A few extra tokens here and there can be handy and the +0/+3 sacrifice ability can be a life saver in certain scenarios. I think it will be a solid 1-of in a deck.
Impenetrable Fortress "The mere approach of an Abzan war beast is enough to send enemies fleeing in panic." Pretty much describes Siege Rhino. Siege Rhino is a house! If last standard season proved anything, it should how power life drain ETB effects were with The Grey Merchant of Asphodel. The Rhino has that and more as it is a really big beater on the ground that can't be chump blocked. If you have Athreos, God of Passage in play at the same time, killing the siege rhino almost ensures them taking an additional 3 damage. The green splash also gives access to Abzan Charm which is very powerful. It removals almost any large threat, draws you cards and, less importantly, can pump your guys. Other possible inclusions are Courser of Kruphix, great all around card and happens to be an enchantment, and Garruk, Apex Predator. The main issue with these cards is green is a splash and GG can be hard early in the game and 7cmc is always hard to cast without acceleration.
Consistency is King
Two color decks will always be more consistent than 3 color decks, but they have fewer options. That is the main issue facing this deck going B/W. Many of the very powerful cards released in KTK are 3 colors. If you want to stay in 2 colors, the main things your deck will be missing is finishers. There are 2 strong finisher cards in black and white, Herald of Torment and Wingmate Roc. They both have their upsides and downsides. Herald is a great card, can be a basic flyer or it can be a huge bestow onto one of your other creatures (I am looking at you Athreos, 8/7 indestructible flyer ftw). It also triggers constellation which is nice. The only real downside to the card is you typically lack many great bestow targets for it and it may be hard to punch through other big flyers like Butcher of the Horde or Stormbreath Dragon. Anytime a card makes 2 solid flyers for you, you know it is good. On top of that it starts generating you life, which can help Underworld Coinsmith get those last points of damage in. The big downside with Wingmate is it wants you to attack, which, as I mentioned earlier, this deck does not do heavily.
There is the alternative of not using a creature to end the game, and the best choice currently is Elspeth, Sun's Champion. If she sticks around too long she just take over a game. This game pushes for slower games, so she would fit in nicely.
There was a lot of discussion about using Master of the Feast in this deck, but I find that he is really counter to our early game plan of hand destruction. He fits much more in an aggro deck, while this deck takes much more of a control style.
Decklists
These are all untested lists that I have created. If you use them, please post how they do.
The only card I would consider taking out for Grim Haruspex would be Fate Unraveler. The big thing the Mardu version of the deck lacks is card draw, so that would certainly be nice. I would have to test it out and see out the meta plays out, but it is certainly a card to consider, perhaps in the sideboard.
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Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
I've come out of complete lurkership to say how interested I am in this deck. From my playtesting, @Happy Shaman's deck is performing more consistently than the Mardu version. I am heading to Indiana towards the end of the month for the TCG Player MAXpoint Championship, and would love to work with you guys to get this deck tournament-viable. Have you all considered any of the following cards as MB or SB options? How do they look to you?
Aegis is super easy to remove. If most decks were not tossing around tokens, it could be worth considering. But not right now.
Oppressive Rays is a good sideboard card against Monster-style decks.
I believe that Agent of Erebos would be a hoser on Sultai Delve, but the deck it needs to do well against is the Jeskai Tempo. The Jeskai tempo deck is simply too fast for this deck to react to. What would be good sideboard cards against Jeskai tempo?
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"The best way to win Magic is to decrease your opponents life total to zero before you lose the game." - Sir Isaac Newton
I just wanted to pop in and mention that my buddy plays 2 copies of gift of immortality in his Junk constellation deck and it can be incredibly annoying. If you get it on an eidolon of blossoms you can draw 82 billion cards.
For the Abzan version, I have always been on the side of Spirit of the Labyrinth when comparing it with Fate Unraveler. The latter still allows the player to draw into their potential answers for other threats, while the former has to be answered itself prior to drawing into additional answers. Additionally, given that we are GW, Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is another alternate finisher that invigorates our already established board state and sidesteps the symmetrical rules text of Spirit of the Labyrinth.
Spirit of the labyrinth is significantly less good now that a lot of W/B cards from RTR have rotated. There are fewer cards that let you draw in bulk. Also 3/1 body is very weak to morphs and basically anything. The reason I like Fate Unraveler more is the 3/4 body. It can stand most ground attacks and can beat down too. It also creates inevitability which this decks likes.
That all being said, I am not sure if it is the card we want still. Grim Haruspex as mentioned about might be a very useful card advantage generator for us. Certainly makes it annoying to kill Brain Maggot.
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Complex Pants, Thanks for providing the three deck lists. It inspires me a lot. I am changing my deck according to them. Currently, it looks like this:
@redcap39 I don't think 23 lands is enough to support 5 mana+ planeswalkers, especially Elspeth. Six mana is steep for 23 lands.
Last rotation 23 lands was enough to support Archangel of Thune and Obzedat, Ghost Council, but I agree if you are going for elspeth, 24 lands would be safer. 24 lands generally makes more sense if you are going 3 colors. I didn't go to 24 lands in my tricolor decks because the curve tops at 4cmc.
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It's playing brilliantly so far, in my play tests. Jeskai, as expected gives it some trouble, but I feel like just playing very removal heavy in Game 2 evens the field. I would love input on this deck, as well as suggestions for things I had not thought of.
That is a very interesting build. It looks much more like a beat down build than an control build. Why did you choose to move the hand destruction to the sideboard?
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I did some gold fishing tonight and I found that I always was looking for black mana that wasn't tied to a pain-land. I think 4 may be too many. At least it my build in the primer I think I will be going with 3 Caves and 4 swamps. Plan to test it out at on Tuesday.
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Runs pretty well but deff needs some tuning to start tearing up tournaments. I am considering a light red splash for Butcher of the Horde and Crackling Doom as well as a few sideboard cards. If I went this path I would do the following changes..
I think i might try a more esper build considering how much of a monster Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver has been lately to me. I think it would be a good option to consider plus i want a few answers to cards we can't deal with either as hard counters or further removal. It's nice to see a new primer Complex Pants good work on the intro post. I don't think Mardu Ascendancy will work with the control version since it attacks are usually very minimal normally i only attacked with a maggot so i could reply and look at there hand again so trading for a Stormbreath Dragon or Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker. Also in your testing does it feel Fate Unraveler has gotten weaker since RTR rotated out?
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I decided to keep dedicated hand destruction in the SB, because I have only needed it in certain matches that I've play tested against so far. With the huge presence of Abzan Mid, I've found that I don't overly need it. There's 9 sources of removal, and against Abzan Mid/Reanimator, we have options to make it so if they want to cast something scary (namely Hornet Queen), they'll have to hard cast it, taking away their main strategy. Jeskai is an issue, but I think that's a rather common thread for most of our brews, and one that I'm not sure if Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot accurately solves.
By all means though, please, anyone, take apart this deck. As I said in the old thread, I'm heading to a pretty large tournament, and I'd love to represent this deck well.
I decided to keep dedicated hand destruction in the SB, because I have only needed it in certain matches that I've play tested against so far. With the huge presence of Abzan Mid, I've found that I don't overly need it. There's 9 sources of removal, and against Abzan Mid/Reanimator, we have options to make it so if they want to cast something scary (namely Hornet Queen), they'll have to hard cast it, taking away their main strategy. Jeskai is an issue, but I think that's a rather common thread for most of our brews, and one that I'm not sure if Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot accurately solves.
By all means though, please, anyone, take apart this deck. As I said in the old thread, I'm heading to a pretty large tournament, and I'd love to represent this deck well.
The main reason why I use hand destruction early in the game because it is a way to slow down fast decks and to get rid of threats we have trouble dealing with, such as stormbreath dragon. Another reason for hand destruction is there are fewer ways to draw cards these days. Breaking down their hand can put them into top deck mode very early, which puts us at a big advantage.
I put mardu ascendancy in there for 2 reasons. We will swing with Butcher of the Horde and with athreos. I have also gone swinging with all my other creatures against control decks. The few extra tokens can be very valuable. The other part that people overlook is the ability to sacrifice the ascendancy to give all of your creatures +0/+3. This can prevent key creatures from dying and can allow you to win combat. Post SB you can easily side in more removal if you need to, or something more aggressive if needed.
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Legacy
GBDark DepthsBG
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Currently I'm running...
Standard:
GGBig Fatty'sGG
UBMillBU
EDH/Commander:
GUWEvasive ManeuversWUG
Aegis is super easy to remove. If most decks were not tossing around tokens, it could be worth considering. But not right now.
Oppressive Rays is a good sideboard card against Monster-style decks.
What do you think about him? Would it has a good position in this deck?
WUBEsper Dragon ControlWUB
GURTemur Aggro (retired)GUR
Modern Decks:
GGGMono Green StompyGGG
Commander Decks:
BBBDrana Mono Black Control (retired)BBB
GGGEzuri and His Army of ElvesGGG
RGWMayael the Anima and Her Brutal FriendsRGW
UBWydwen ControlUB
RRRAkroma's Furious Land DestructionRRR
Currently I'm running...
Standard:
GGBig Fatty'sGG
UBMillBU
EDH/Commander:
GUWEvasive ManeuversWUG
Currently I'm running...
Standard:
GGBig Fatty'sGG
UBMillBU
EDH/Commander:
GUWEvasive ManeuversWUG
4 Windswept Heath
4 Temple of Silence
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Forest
3 Swamp
3 Plains
2 Sandsteppe Citadel
Spells
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Abzan Charm
1 Utter End
3 Banishing Light
Creatures
4 Brain Maggot
4 Grim Guardian
3 Nyx-Fleece Ram
3 Underworld Coinsmith
3 Athreos, God of Passage
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Finishers
4 Siege Rhino
Planeswalkers
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
2 Deicide
1 Banishing Light
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Extinguish All Hope
3 Stain the Mind
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
For the Abzan version, I have always been on the side of Spirit of the Labyrinth when comparing it with Fate Unraveler. The latter still allows the player to draw into their potential answers for other threats, while the former has to be answered itself prior to drawing into additional answers. Additionally, given that we are GW, Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is another alternate finisher that invigorates our already established board state and sidesteps the symmetrical rules text of Spirit of the Labyrinth.
That all being said, I am not sure if it is the card we want still. Grim Haruspex as mentioned about might be a very useful card advantage generator for us. Certainly makes it annoying to kill Brain Maggot.
I've been testing it as a 2-of. Works rather well.
3x Caves of Koilos
7x Plains
4x Scoured Barrens
9x Swamp
Creature - 22
2x Athreos, God of Passage
4x Brain Maggot
2x Fate Unraveler
4x Grim Guardian
4x Herald of Torment
3x Nyx-Fleece Ram
3x Underworld Coinsmith
1x Ajani Steadfast
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Liliana Vess
Instant - 5
2x Devouring Light
1x Hero's Downfall
2x Silence the Believers
3x Banishing Light
1x Feast on the Fallen
Sorcery - 3
3x Despise
WUBEsper Dragon ControlWUB
GURTemur Aggro (retired)GUR
Modern Decks:
GGGMono Green StompyGGG
Commander Decks:
BBBDrana Mono Black Control (retired)BBB
GGGEzuri and His Army of ElvesGGG
RGWMayael the Anima and Her Brutal FriendsRGW
UBWydwen ControlUB
RRRAkroma's Furious Land DestructionRRR
Here's the variant I plan to run next Friday.
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Caves of Koilos
2 Mana Confluence
3 Mountain
1 Nomad Outpost
2 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
//Spells
3 Banishing Light
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Mardu Ascendancy
2 Crackling Doom
4 Thoughtseize
3 Athreos, God of Passage
4 Brain Maggot
2 Butcher of the Horde
2 Fate Unraveler
4 Grim Guardian
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
3 Underworld Coinsmith
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Crackling Doom
1 Mardu Charm
3 Magma Spray
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Fate Unraveler
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Erase
WUR Geist Midrange WUR
Commander
W Nahiri's Celestial Foundry W
WB Orzhov Inquisition (Cleric Tribal) WB
WUBRG Progenitus's Prismatic Domain WUBRG
WURG Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Love You WURG
WUG Rafiq of the Many Auracrafting WUG
WRG Hazezon Tamar Overrun WRG
G Seton's Druid Ramp G
Last rotation 23 lands was enough to support Archangel of Thune and Obzedat, Ghost Council, but I agree if you are going for elspeth, 24 lands would be safer. 24 lands generally makes more sense if you are going 3 colors. I didn't go to 24 lands in my tricolor decks because the curve tops at 4cmc.
WUBEsper Dragon ControlWUB
GURTemur Aggro (retired)GUR
Modern Decks:
GGGMono Green StompyGGG
Commander Decks:
BBBDrana Mono Black Control (retired)BBB
GGGEzuri and His Army of ElvesGGG
RGWMayael the Anima and Her Brutal FriendsRGW
UBWydwen ControlUB
RRRAkroma's Furious Land DestructionRRR
2x Blossoming Sands
2x Caves of Koilos
1x Forest
2x Llanowar Wastes
3x Plains
3x Sandsteppe Citadel
3x Swamp
2x Temple of Silence
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Windswept Heath
2x Mana Confluence
Creatures
3x Ajani's Pridemate
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
3x Grim Guardian
3x Herald of Torment
4x Siege Rhino
3x Spiteful Returned
3x Underworld Coinsmith
1x Wingmate Roc
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
2x Athreos, God of Passage
Planeswalkers
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Instants
2x Abzan Charm
3x Hero's Downfall
1x Utter End
Enchantments
2x Abzan Ascendancy
3x Banishing Light
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
1x Banishing Light
2x Bile Blight
3x Brain Maggot
2x Erase
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Nyx-Fleece Ram
3x Thoughtseize
1x Utter End
It's playing brilliantly so far, in my play tests. Jeskai, as expected gives it some trouble, but I feel like just playing very removal heavy in Game 2 evens the field. I would love input on this deck, as well as suggestions for things I had not thought of.
Currently I'm running...
Standard:
GGBig Fatty'sGG
UBMillBU
EDH/Commander:
GUWEvasive ManeuversWUG
Yes, as long as you're exiling one of your own creature cards.
4 Brain Maggot
3 Underworld Coinsmith
4 Grim Guardian
3 Athreos, God of Passage
1 Grim Haruspex
4 Herald of Torment
2 Fate Unraveler
2 Wingmate Roc
Spells: 8
4 Thoughtseize
3 Hero's Downfall
1 Utter End
3 Banishing Light
Planeswalker: 3
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Lands:23
3 Temple of Silence
2 Scoured Barrens
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
8 Swamp
5 Plains
3 Doomwake Giant
2 Bile Blight
1 Fate Unraveler
1 Utter End
3 Nyx-Fleece Ram
3 Deicide
2 Spear of Heliod
Runs pretty well but deff needs some tuning to start tearing up tournaments. I am considering a light red splash for Butcher of the Horde and Crackling Doom as well as a few sideboard cards. If I went this path I would do the following changes..
-2 Fate Unraveler
-1 Wingmate Roc
-1 Utter End
-1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
-1 Athreos, God of Passage
+4 Butcher of the Horde
+2 Crackling Doom
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I decided to keep dedicated hand destruction in the SB, because I have only needed it in certain matches that I've play tested against so far. With the huge presence of Abzan Mid, I've found that I don't overly need it. There's 9 sources of removal, and against Abzan Mid/Reanimator, we have options to make it so if they want to cast something scary (namely Hornet Queen), they'll have to hard cast it, taking away their main strategy. Jeskai is an issue, but I think that's a rather common thread for most of our brews, and one that I'm not sure if Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot accurately solves.
By all means though, please, anyone, take apart this deck. As I said in the old thread, I'm heading to a pretty large tournament, and I'd love to represent this deck well.
The main reason why I use hand destruction early in the game because it is a way to slow down fast decks and to get rid of threats we have trouble dealing with, such as stormbreath dragon. Another reason for hand destruction is there are fewer ways to draw cards these days. Breaking down their hand can put them into top deck mode very early, which puts us at a big advantage.
I put mardu ascendancy in there for 2 reasons. We will swing with Butcher of the Horde and with athreos. I have also gone swinging with all my other creatures against control decks. The few extra tokens can be very valuable. The other part that people overlook is the ability to sacrifice the ascendancy to give all of your creatures +0/+3. This can prevent key creatures from dying and can allow you to win combat. Post SB you can easily side in more removal if you need to, or something more aggressive if needed.