I think both Temples are great. I would play both if I were playing Sultai or control in general. The more Scrying the better in this kind of build.
I don't completely agree with this, but I feel it also depends with what kind of deck you're running. The format is still fast enough to where you can get boned by too many come into play tapped lands. In Sultai especially, where you run 4 opulent palace, running too many temples can hinder turns where you really needed an untapped mana (for that turn 3 dissolve, turn x digs, etc.)
I've piloted both Grixis and Sultai with standard legal mana bases, and I've never ran more than 8-9 cipt lands. Anyone else have any input concerning the mana bases in standard right now?
I think both Temples are great. I would play both if I were playing Sultai or control in general. The more Scrying the better in this kind of build.
I don't completely agree with this, but I feel it also depends with what kind of deck you're running. The format is still fast enough to where you can get boned by too many come into play tapped lands. In Sultai especially, where you run 4 opulent palace, running too many temples can hinder turns where you really needed an untapped mana (for that turn 3 dissolve, turn x digs, etc.)
I've piloted both Grixis and Sultai with standard legal mana bases, and I've never ran more than 8-9 cipt lands. Anyone else have any input concerning the mana bases in standard right now?
I run 10 max. 6 temples and 4 Palace. But it may be worth swapping one or two of the temples for a pain land if the meta is more midrange / control / combo instead of aggro.
I think both Temples are great. I would play both if I were playing Sultai or control in general. The more Scrying the better in this kind of build.
I don't completely agree with this, but I feel it also depends with what kind of deck you're running. The format is still fast enough to where you can get boned by too many come into play tapped lands. In Sultai especially, where you run 4 opulent palace, running too many temples can hinder turns where you really needed an untapped mana (for that turn 3 dissolve, turn x digs, etc.)
I've piloted both Grixis and Sultai with standard legal mana bases, and I've never ran more than 8-9 cipt lands. Anyone else have any input concerning the mana bases in standard right now?
I run 10 max. 6 temples and 4 Palace. But it may be worth swapping one or two of the temples for a pain land if the meta is more midrange / control / combo instead of aggro.
Very true actually. I have 11 cipt lands right now. It is a bit much though some gain me life and that makes up for some of the initial attacking i get. I guess what i was saying was "if you only have 5 temples play them, they both work". I am looking to go to 9 total cipt lands. but waiting to get my hands on some more pain lands.
This is the deck I've been tinkering with for a bit. Feed back would be appreciated. One deck the deck struggles against is Temer midrange/aggro, but I haven;t played against one with the latest version of this deck, which is posted above. As you can see this deck is draw go, which I'm comfortable with and seems to have it's place in the current meta. Couple of notes on card choices:
Courser of Kruphix: the amount of CA this thing generates is bonkers. You get to play lands of the top, you have a body, you get info so you can further plan. YOU GAIN LIFE. All for 3 mana. I can't tell you how valuable playing a fetch off the top, gaining a life, seeing a non optimal card is, and then cracking the fetch to try again is.
Kruphix, God of Horizons: I admit this is more of a pet card, but the mana storage is great in a draw-go deck, especially this deck, and the no max had size isn't too shabby either. Through testing, if I deem necessary, I'll probably make him another Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Bow of Nylea: This card is a house. Gains you life, recycles bombs, recycles counters, recycles anything you need. Putting 4 on the bottom then cracking a fetch is nuts. Turns any creature you have into a threat. even pops Sorin, Solemn Visitor tokens. The versatility is well welcomed in this type of deck.
Villainous Wealth: The main reason I build this deck, but this is NOT a Villainous Wealth deck, it's a permission deck that uses Wealth as 2 of it's 6 wincons (7 if you counter Courser beatdown which has happened). As such, you usually play it for x = 6-10 with counter back up and whatnot. Though, I did mill a guy out last fnm with x = 46 (dat Kruphix doe)
Psychic Intrusion: I've been testing this as another wincon against control. Kind of like a super Thoughtseize. The idea behind it is to throw it out with counter back up and all that, but much like Thoughtseize, you don't counter it, that's one less counter to use against you and with Bow and all the draw, you have inevitability. I've played this game 2 vs control and they flash in Pearl Lake Ancient, so I let it resolve then with Intrusion still on the stack you hit the snake with a kill spell...lol.
Looking forward to comments and I'll answer any questions you guys have to the best of my ability. Just looking to make the deck as good as it can be
This deck looks awesome! But
1. I don't see why you pick Villainous Wealth over Ugin. Isn't he straight better in any situation? Influences the board (and can whipe it), sets up a clock and with 8 mana is cheaper i think than the BGU sorcery.
2. Also I'm interested in what makes you choose 4 Jaces Ingenuity vs only 2 Dig through time?
There we go. So last week win making adjustments, I took out a Hero's Downfall, Silence the Believers, and 1 Drown in Sorrow for 2 Feed the Clan and 1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death I kept the Death Frenzy in as super Drown #2, but Depending on how testing goes, If I feel it's too slow for the life gain isn't that relevant, it will become a Drown. Your points on Ugin over Wealth are strong, However, wealth does have it's advantages over Ugin as well:
1. Ugin can't deal with Perilous Vault. In this scenario a well placed Wealth (usually for around 7 with backup mana) can get you into either a way to deal with it (like one of there vaults or if they have some kind of bounce spell like Jace/etc. OR you put stuff on the board to make them pop the vault like walkers and dragons and such) or it gets you into draw spells like dig to draw your own answer (ie Sultai Charm)
2. Ugin can't dealth with manifest shenanigans, however flooding the board with creatures or spells to get your own creatures can
3. Ugin is just one dude. You power him down and he does his stuff, then walks into a downfall (kinda like his lore hahahaha). With Wealth, you can put multiple threats on board to overwhelm opponents.
Like I said in the op, Villainous Wealth is just another finisher. I'm not powering it out and going all in on it. Usually 6-10 is all you need and I cast it with mana open for counters, downfall, etc. However, as with all things magic, if testing deems necessary, I'll cut some or all for more answers to whatever the problem is.
I'm running a full suite of Nullify - the main reason I'm not running Bile Blight. Nullify deals with a more flexible array of things (and shuts down U/W heroic) and anything that slips past it gets picked up by one of the numerous spot removals (including Sultai Charm), sweepers (Crux of Fate or Ugin,) or can't get past Bow or Coursers
The Jace's Ingenuity over Dig through time - Still testing numbers, might go 3 Digs and 3 Jace, also looking at 4 Digs and 2 Enhanced Awareness cause dat card fuels dat delve. The rational behind Jace over Dig at the moment is that it tends to be a little more consistent in casting it in this build since it doesn't rely on your graveyard and in the control mirror it comes down before the opponents Dig to either start establishing my advantage or to eat a counter they can't use on me later. I use dig more like a "finisher" draw spell like Opportunity as the nail in the coffin the other guy can't come back from. I also, from what I've seen, run more draw than every other control deck, which tends to put me ahead in the mirror alot.
This is the deck I've been tinkering with for a bit. Feed back would be appreciated. One deck the deck struggles against is Temer midrange/aggro, but I haven;t played against one with the latest version of this deck, which is posted above. As you can see this deck is draw go, which I'm comfortable with and seems to have it's place in the current meta. Couple of notes on card choices:
We take two different approaches to this deck. You focus on the blue with counters and draw spell making literal card advantage. I focus on black answering to the board with kill spells or preemptively with thoughtseize getting my advantage with Digs and Tasigurs focusing on virtual card advantage (at least I think that is the right terminology).
I found my matches against Temur to be on the easier side. I take the first few turns getting set up taking my lumps. Then work on there board. Then shut down there big spells with the few counter spells I have. Once I start having answers to the on-board threats they became a lot slower. I don't feel so bad letting one creature through because ill answer it later. Or block it with creatures. Having the satyr wayfinders are really nice. Filling the grave for delve and just chumping what is in played. I can even get a point of damage in every now and then.
If you are thinking about Enhanced Awareness I would just play more Sultai Charms. Sure it is one card less but it is two mana less. I think that is really important. You can draw 2 leave up a counter for the same mana.
Well before I just start rambling on and on I'll stop here. I you want anything explained more just ask. I don't what to waste your time with more explanation if it is not needed.
Tasigur is just bonkers with Frontier Siege and Sagu Mauler is amazing at killing opposing Ugins as well as beeing immune to Disdainful Stroke, Negate or Hero's Downfall. No Ashiok or Kiora because i don't like those cards, they have too much flaws and variance in what they're doing, I used to play some Ashiok instead of Maulers in sideboard until i milled Torrent Elemental with it against UB control which obviously costs me the game and i'm really happy with this switch.
I played a very greedy version of the deck tonight and went 4-0. Been playing Abzan, GB Constellation and Jeskai Tokens all year, and none felt quite as powereful as this did tonight!
A tap-out style control-ish/delve brew that keeps your opponent busy with Courser + Tasigur + Torrent Elemental, before launching into Hornet Queens and Ugins. I originally had 4 Dissipate instead of the 2 Secrets and the Stroke + Negate, but realised that I'm rarely wanting to leave three mana open, let alone two blue. So about five minutes before we started, I chucked into those 4 as replacements to see how they felt. The Secrets were surprisingly really good! I'm definitely keeping them in there for next week. However, I'm unsure whether Stroke + Negate are worth it, or should be put solely in the SB.
I didn't think Whip had a place in this deck, though it has great synergy with Torrent Elemental. However, after playing against a lot of RW Aggro today, I'm almost considering chucking it in the SB because its life-link seems fairly back-breaking. I found that I usually stabilised against them when I was at about 8 life, so still scarily in burn range. Maybe Feed the Clans is the answer, but Whip seems like it could be even better?
Anyway, to keep this thread on track, these last 3 decks running Frontier Siege are Sultai Ramp, not Sultai Control. I'd classify them as more of a midrange deck. Here's a discussion on a similar Sultai Ramp deck that may peak your interest though:
Round 5 v.s. Esper Control 2-1 (Interpret the Signs for Draw 8, led to Garruk Apex Predator, and a second Ashiok to mill them for exactly 3 when they had three cards left......in extra time.)
Another reason is Heroic. They have a much harder time dealing with untargeted bounce than untargeted destruction since they typically run at least 2 different spells that grant indestructible.
I do have a question that is a little of topic. Does refer to control nonetheless:
What reason would there be to play Aetherspouts rather than Crux of Fate? Thinking about playing the Adrian Sullivan list next week at games day and I really wonder why he'd play spouts mainboard. My only ideas are Fleecemane Lion and Rakshasa Deathdealer hence they can be regenerated/indestructible. And also that spouts might get your opponent to play around it. But I'm not to sure about that and it's benefits...
Spouts blows out aggro pretty well, synergizes with Ashiok (cant tell you how many times I've done turn 5 spouts into turn 6 ashiok, with their best creatures on top!), and can be boarded completely out after just one resolution, because just seeing one will cause an opponent to forever play around it.
However, it's not played by Sullivan instead of Crux. Instead of Crux, he stays true to 4 Perilous Vaults.
I don't think the Sultai Control deck wants to do those. It can take care of Artifacts and Enchantments with green, thus making Crux a better choice for a boardwhipe than Vault.
Probably a really stupid idea, but a part of me really wants to try Restock. In this deck, it's an extremely versatile draw-spell. It can read anything from "draw two more pieces of removal" to "draw a Silumgar and an Ugin". But maybe this is just the dark bit of my soul that gets darker whenever I mill over an Ugin with Wayfinder talking.
Do you know what tournament he actually won? The actual tournament isn't posted.
That being said, I am still on the fence. I currently play UB control. Although I like Fabiano's list, it has far less Mana consistency than pure UB control. AKA it's less likely to beable to cast bile on turn 2, dissipate on turn 3, etc. since it plays a higher frequency of ETB lands.
On the flip side, it has access to way more flexibility and <arguably> raw power. I'm torn
Do you know what tournament he actually won? The actual tournament isn't posted.
That being said, I am still on the fence. I currently play UB control. Although I like Fabiano's list, it has far less Mana consistency than pure UB control. AKA it's less likely to beable to cast bile on turn 2, dissipate on turn 3, etc. since it plays a higher frequency of ETB lands.
On the flip side, it has access to way more flexibility and <arguably> raw power. I'm torn
Then the question is, how often do you need to cast turn 2 Bile Blight or turn 3 Dissolve? Is it worth giving up flexibility and raw power to be able to do it more often?
Looks like the tournament was SCG Regionals. I'm going to start testing a variant that is primarily UB control, but splashing green for some walkers (kiora, garruk) and some sideboard tech. We'll see how it goes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Do you know what tournament he actually won? The actual tournament isn't posted.
That being said, I am still on the fence. I currently play UB control. Although I like Fabiano's list, it has far less Mana consistency than pure UB control. AKA it's less likely to beable to cast bile on turn 2, dissipate on turn 3, etc. since it plays a higher frequency of ETB lands.
On the flip side, it has access to way more flexibility and <arguably> raw power. I'm torn
Then the question is, how often do you need to cast turn 2 Bile Blight or turn 3 Dissolve?
Well in Sultai you don't need to cast Dissolve... since you don't run it ;P.
The necessity of being able to cast bile on turn 2 truly depends on whether you are on the play or draw. On the draw Bile mana turn 2 is necessary to kill rabble master. Also: you want bile mana up ASAP against UW heroic and/or boss sleigh.
For those of you out there that have played both Sulti Control and UB control... what do you like/dislike about each deck type? Still trying to decide what to play for the GP in two weeks.
Are there any Sultai Ramp post or we can write in this one for resolve dudes of this?
Thanks
Sultai Ramp (midrange) and Sultai Control are basically 2 entirely different decks with different game plans. Discussing both hear would just be confusing.
Do you know what tournament he actually won? The actual tournament isn't posted.
That being said, I am still on the fence. I currently play UB control. Although I like Fabiano's list, it has far less Mana consistency than pure UB control. AKA it's less likely to beable to cast bile on turn 2, dissipate on turn 3, etc. since it plays a higher frequency of ETB lands.
On the flip side, it has access to way more flexibility and <arguably> raw power. I'm torn
The tournament was the 2/07 Regionals Philadelphia.
Do you know what tournament he actually won? The actual tournament isn't posted.
That being said, I am still on the fence. I currently play UB control. Although I like Fabiano's list, it has far less Mana consistency than pure UB control. AKA it's less likely to beable to cast bile on turn 2, dissipate on turn 3, etc. since it plays a higher frequency of ETB lands.
On the flip side, it has access to way more flexibility and <arguably> raw power. I'm torn
The tournament was the 2/07 Regionals Philadelphia.
The Top 8 is on StarCityGames.com
Yea I found it. What's the benefits/weaknesses of sultai vs ub?
What is this decks plan against Abzan, both midrange and aggro. I'm guessing Crux of Fate is a key card? I'm running a Sultai variant and unfortunately my Cruxes won't be arriving till next week - are there any ways I can compensate for this in the Abzan matchup? Is Aetherspouts effective, or is it just bad against Siege Rhino?
I have not also obtained Cruxes as such I probably wont be attending game day, I don't have my deck yet. Or I'll be convinced to go any play a fate rogered less list.
I don't completely agree with this, but I feel it also depends with what kind of deck you're running. The format is still fast enough to where you can get boned by too many come into play tapped lands. In Sultai especially, where you run 4 opulent palace, running too many temples can hinder turns where you really needed an untapped mana (for that turn 3 dissolve, turn x digs, etc.)
I've piloted both Grixis and Sultai with standard legal mana bases, and I've never ran more than 8-9 cipt lands. Anyone else have any input concerning the mana bases in standard right now?
I run 10 max. 6 temples and 4 Palace. But it may be worth swapping one or two of the temples for a pain land if the meta is more midrange / control / combo instead of aggro.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Very true actually. I have 11 cipt lands right now. It is a bit much though some gain me life and that makes up for some of the initial attacking i get. I guess what i was saying was "if you only have 5 temples play them, they both work". I am looking to go to 9 total cipt lands. but waiting to get my hands on some more pain lands.
4 Opulent Palace
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Polluted Delta
4 Island
2 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Llanowar Wastes
3 Yavimaya Coast
Counters
4 Nullify
4 Dissolve
Removal
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Sultai Charm
2 Murderous Cut
1 Silence the Believers
2 Crux of Fate
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Bow of Nylea
4 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Dig Through Time
Bombs
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Villainous Wealth
1 Kruphix, God of Horizons
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
2 Feed the Clan
2 Negate
2 Gainsay
2 Psychic Intrusion
1 Death Frenzy
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Sultai Charm
1 Liliana Vess
This is the deck I've been tinkering with for a bit. Feed back would be appreciated. One deck the deck struggles against is Temer midrange/aggro, but I haven;t played against one with the latest version of this deck, which is posted above. As you can see this deck is draw go, which I'm comfortable with and seems to have it's place in the current meta. Couple of notes on card choices:
Courser of Kruphix: the amount of CA this thing generates is bonkers. You get to play lands of the top, you have a body, you get info so you can further plan. YOU GAIN LIFE. All for 3 mana. I can't tell you how valuable playing a fetch off the top, gaining a life, seeing a non optimal card is, and then cracking the fetch to try again is.
Kruphix, God of Horizons: I admit this is more of a pet card, but the mana storage is great in a draw-go deck, especially this deck, and the no max had size isn't too shabby either. Through testing, if I deem necessary, I'll probably make him another Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Bow of Nylea: This card is a house. Gains you life, recycles bombs, recycles counters, recycles anything you need. Putting 4 on the bottom then cracking a fetch is nuts. Turns any creature you have into a threat. even pops Sorin, Solemn Visitor tokens. The versatility is well welcomed in this type of deck.
Villainous Wealth: The main reason I build this deck, but this is NOT a Villainous Wealth deck, it's a permission deck that uses Wealth as 2 of it's 6 wincons (7 if you counter Courser beatdown which has happened). As such, you usually play it for x = 6-10 with counter back up and whatnot. Though, I did mill a guy out last fnm with x = 46 (dat Kruphix doe)
Psychic Intrusion: I've been testing this as another wincon against control. Kind of like a super Thoughtseize. The idea behind it is to throw it out with counter back up and all that, but much like Thoughtseize, you don't counter it, that's one less counter to use against you and with Bow and all the draw, you have inevitability. I've played this game 2 vs control and they flash in Pearl Lake Ancient, so I let it resolve then with Intrusion still on the stack you hit the snake with a kill spell...lol.
Looking forward to comments and I'll answer any questions you guys have to the best of my ability. Just looking to make the deck as good as it can be
*updated with current sideboard, haha
Oh man, I didn't put in the updated sideboard ahahha.
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
2 Feed the Clan
2 Negate
2 Gainsay
2 Psychic Intrusion
1 Death Frenzy
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Sultai Charm
1 Liliana Vess
There we go. So last week win making adjustments, I took out a Hero's Downfall, Silence the Believers, and 1 Drown in Sorrow for 2 Feed the Clan and 1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death I kept the Death Frenzy in as super Drown #2, but Depending on how testing goes, If I feel it's too slow for the life gain isn't that relevant, it will become a Drown. Your points on Ugin over Wealth are strong, However, wealth does have it's advantages over Ugin as well:
1. Ugin can't deal with Perilous Vault. In this scenario a well placed Wealth (usually for around 7 with backup mana) can get you into either a way to deal with it (like one of there vaults or if they have some kind of bounce spell like Jace/etc. OR you put stuff on the board to make them pop the vault like walkers and dragons and such) or it gets you into draw spells like dig to draw your own answer (ie Sultai Charm)
2. Ugin can't dealth with manifest shenanigans, however flooding the board with creatures or spells to get your own creatures can
3. Ugin is just one dude. You power him down and he does his stuff, then walks into a downfall (kinda like his lore hahahaha). With Wealth, you can put multiple threats on board to overwhelm opponents.
Like I said in the op, Villainous Wealth is just another finisher. I'm not powering it out and going all in on it. Usually 6-10 is all you need and I cast it with mana open for counters, downfall, etc. However, as with all things magic, if testing deems necessary, I'll cut some or all for more answers to whatever the problem is.
Gainsay over Disdainful Stroke: Gainsay hit more of the stuff I want. I bring it in for control and any deck that's heavy blue. Gainsay hits the same stuff in that match up (outside Ugin and Perilous Vault) but it also hit's Dissolve, Disdainful Stroke, and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I'm running a full suite of Nullify - the main reason I'm not running Bile Blight. Nullify deals with a more flexible array of things (and shuts down U/W heroic) and anything that slips past it gets picked up by one of the numerous spot removals (including Sultai Charm), sweepers (Crux of Fate or Ugin,) or can't get past Bow or Coursers
The Jace's Ingenuity over Dig through time - Still testing numbers, might go 3 Digs and 3 Jace, also looking at 4 Digs and 2 Enhanced Awareness cause dat card fuels dat delve. The rational behind Jace over Dig at the moment is that it tends to be a little more consistent in casting it in this build since it doesn't rely on your graveyard and in the control mirror it comes down before the opponents Dig to either start establishing my advantage or to eat a counter they can't use on me later. I use dig more like a "finisher" draw spell like Opportunity as the nail in the coffin the other guy can't come back from. I also, from what I've seen, run more draw than every other control deck, which tends to put me ahead in the mirror alot.
We take two different approaches to this deck. You focus on the blue with counters and draw spell making literal card advantage. I focus on black answering to the board with kill spells or preemptively with thoughtseize getting my advantage with Digs and Tasigurs focusing on virtual card advantage (at least I think that is the right terminology).
I found my matches against Temur to be on the easier side. I take the first few turns getting set up taking my lumps. Then work on there board. Then shut down there big spells with the few counter spells I have. Once I start having answers to the on-board threats they became a lot slower. I don't feel so bad letting one creature through because ill answer it later. Or block it with creatures. Having the satyr wayfinders are really nice. Filling the grave for delve and just chumping what is in played. I can even get a point of damage in every now and then.
If you are thinking about Enhanced Awareness I would just play more Sultai Charms. Sure it is one card less but it is two mana less. I think that is really important. You can draw 2 leave up a counter for the same mana.
Well before I just start rambling on and on I'll stop here. I you want anything explained more just ask. I don't what to waste your time with more explanation if it is not needed.
4 Opulent Palace
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Mystery
1 Jungle Hollow
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Yavimaya Coast
3 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures : 12
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Hornet Queen
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Enchantement : 3
3 Frontier Siege
Instants : 8
3 Dig Through Time
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Sultai Charm
Sorcery : 6
4 Thoughtseize
2 Crux of Fate
2 Sagu Mauler
1 Liliana Vess
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Feed the Clan
1 Sultai Charm
3 Negate
4 Bile Blight
1 Dig Through Time
Tasigur is just bonkers with Frontier Siege and Sagu Mauler is amazing at killing opposing Ugins as well as beeing immune to Disdainful Stroke, Negate or Hero's Downfall. No Ashiok or Kiora because i don't like those cards, they have too much flaws and variance in what they're doing, I used to play some Ashiok instead of Maulers in sideboard until i milled Torrent Elemental with it against UB control which obviously costs me the game and i'm really happy with this switch.
4 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Torrent Elemental
2 Hornet Queen
1 Murderous Cut
4 Sultai Charm
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Rakshasha's Secret
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Negate
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
A tap-out style control-ish/delve brew that keeps your opponent busy with Courser + Tasigur + Torrent Elemental, before launching into Hornet Queens and Ugins. I originally had 4 Dissipate instead of the 2 Secrets and the Stroke + Negate, but realised that I'm rarely wanting to leave three mana open, let alone two blue. So about five minutes before we started, I chucked into those 4 as replacements to see how they felt. The Secrets were surprisingly really good! I'm definitely keeping them in there for next week. However, I'm unsure whether Stroke + Negate are worth it, or should be put solely in the SB.
I didn't think Whip had a place in this deck, though it has great synergy with Torrent Elemental. However, after playing against a lot of RW Aggro today, I'm almost considering chucking it in the SB because its life-link seems fairly back-breaking. I found that I usually stabilised against them when I was at about 8 life, so still scarily in burn range. Maybe Feed the Clans is the answer, but Whip seems like it could be even better?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/591379-sultai-turbo-ugin
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
2x Island
2x Llanowar Wastes
4x Opulent Palace
4x Polluted Delta
3x Swamp
2x Temple of Deceit
4x Temple of Malady
1x Temple of Mystery
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Yavimaya Coast
Sorcery (6)
2x Crux of Fate
1x Interpret the Signs
3x Thoughtseize
3x Bile Blight
4x Dig Through Time
2x Disdainful Stroke
3x Hero's Downfall
2x Murderous Cut
3x Sultai Charm
Planeswalker (8)
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Garruk, Apex Predator
2x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creature (4)
4x Satyr Wayfinder
1x Drown in Sorrow
2x Feed the Clan
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Necropolis Fiend
2x Negate
1x Pearl Lake Ancient
1x Pharika's Cure
2x Rakshasa Deathdealer
1x Silence the Believers
1x Silumgar, the Drifting Death
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Round 2 v.s. Mardu Midrange: 1-2
Round 3 v.s. G/b Devotion: 2-0
Round 4 v.s. U/B Control 2-1
Round 5 v.s. Esper Control 2-1 (Interpret the Signs for Draw 8, led to Garruk Apex Predator, and a second Ashiok to mill them for exactly 3 when they had three cards left......in extra time.)
If I expect a lot of abzan aggro I do play one in the sideboard, but I still prefer crux.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Spouts blows out aggro pretty well, synergizes with Ashiok (cant tell you how many times I've done turn 5 spouts into turn 6 ashiok, with their best creatures on top!), and can be boarded completely out after just one resolution, because just seeing one will cause an opponent to forever play around it.
However, it's not played by Sullivan instead of Crux. Instead of Crux, he stays true to 4 Perilous Vaults.
I don't think the Sultai Control deck wants to do those. It can take care of Artifacts and Enchantments with green, thus making Crux a better choice for a boardwhipe than Vault.
I'm thinking seriously test the deck.
Do you know what tournament he actually won? The actual tournament isn't posted.
That being said, I am still on the fence. I currently play UB control. Although I like Fabiano's list, it has far less Mana consistency than pure UB control. AKA it's less likely to beable to cast bile on turn 2, dissipate on turn 3, etc. since it plays a higher frequency of ETB lands.
On the flip side, it has access to way more flexibility and <arguably> raw power. I'm torn
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Then the question is, how often do you need to cast turn 2 Bile Blight or turn 3 Dissolve? Is it worth giving up flexibility and raw power to be able to do it more often?
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Well in Sultai you don't need to cast Dissolve... since you don't run it ;P.
The necessity of being able to cast bile on turn 2 truly depends on whether you are on the play or draw. On the draw Bile mana turn 2 is necessary to kill rabble master. Also: you want bile mana up ASAP against UW heroic and/or boss sleigh.
For those of you out there that have played both Sulti Control and UB control... what do you like/dislike about each deck type? Still trying to decide what to play for the GP in two weeks.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Sultai Ramp (midrange) and Sultai Control are basically 2 entirely different decks with different game plans. Discussing both hear would just be confusing.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
The tournament was the 2/07 Regionals Philadelphia.
The Top 8 is on StarCityGames.com
Yea I found it. What's the benefits/weaknesses of sultai vs ub?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
you disdainful stroke the rhino and aetherspouts their board the next turn.
You will probably just have to run a bunch of vaults, and then have to play around your own vaults.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own