Just started playing Abzan Whip, for most of KTK standard I've been on Abzan Midrange. I went 5-0 only losing one game with this list at FNM this friday. So far I love this deck its extremely consistent in the early and late game. I'll give a brief tournament report from what I remember below.
Round 1 vs Abzan outlast....it was some kid playing an outlast deck at fnm...enough said.
Round 2 vs Selesnya Midrange. Game 1 my opponent got stuck on lands and I Murderous Cut an Elvish Mystic after I saw a missed land drop. Smooth sailing after that. Game 2 was quite close, I was stumbling on threats in the early game, I ended the game at 1 life. An early Whip, a Courser, and a monstrous Fleecemane allowed me to attack repeatedly gaining life(opponent had fliers so no way to block). The repeated life gain allowed me to stay in the race eventually finishing the game at one life.
Round 3 vs G/R monsters/devotion this was an odd list, he was using green devotion to make mana for Crater's Claws, using a devotion mana dork instead of Nykthos. Whip was the all star here, Siege Rhino's for days. And a very timely Whip activation for Ashen Rider to kill his devotion dork when i was in Crater's Claws range in game 2.
Round 4 vs Jeskai Agro First game was easily mine, Whip and Siege Rhino put me out of burn range quickly. Game 2 Commune with the Gods came up huge and found my 2nd Whip the turn after he erased my first. Again my life gain and bigger threats made it easy.
Round 5 vs Mardu Midrange Game one I got steam rolled by 3 Butcher of the Horde, I simply didn't have enough removal. Post board I sided out my Satyr Wayfinders and Doomwake Giants for more removal and Sorin. Games 2 and 3 played out with me having the right removal at the right time, Sorin did a huge amount of work giving me card advantage and life gain, since I didn't see any Whips in this match. I feel like sideboarding out the Doomwakes was wrong in this matchup, as he had Rabblemaster, I probably should have sided out Fleecemane instead.
I am interested in trying out Tasigur, the Golden Fang possibly replacing Fleecemane Lion. I do have some concerns about playing Tasigur and 4x Murderous Cut, as this could be to much delve. But I feel like Tasigur will allow me to have an agressive early creature if I need it, albeit on turn 3 instead of turn 2, also he will give me card advantage in the long grindy games, he will provide me with a more reliable source of ferocious trigger on See the Unwritten than Fleecemane currently does, and possibly my favorite part of Tasigur is the possible tempo plays. Imagine playing End Hostilities and Tasigur on the same turn.
I'm sure someone has tested Tasigur over this past weekend, is he the real deal?
Also any questions or comments about my list are welcome.
Hey all you crazy kids. Appologies for basicly up and leaving the primer. Life got in the way and i had to cash out of standard and i havent played in a while to say the least. I feel really bad i wasn't able to contribute while this deck gained popularity but it looks like youve been doing fine regardless.
Regardless if someone is interested in taking over this primer/ making a new one which is up to date feel free. Im not sure how it would work but i imagine we can contact a mod and get it moving.
I played the list that I posted in my previous post this FNM, and I ended 2-2. Report:
Round 1: U/W Heroic. (1-2)
I hate that deck, they always have the protection spell in hand. First game he kept a hand without creatures and scooped turn 5. Second game, he was crushing me until I get an End Hostilities and the game stalled. At last, he won me. Third game, he had god-hand and stomped me in turn 4.
Round 2: Mardu (2-0)
A kid that was learning to play, it was easy.
Round 3: U/B Control (0-2)
This round was versus a friend, first game was close until he Ashioked me a Rhino and protected it with counters and removal, eventually he won because I didn't draw a Whip. Game 2, I draw about 15 lands in total, with Courser in battlefield cleaning my top, and didn't draw any threats.
Round 4: G/W aggro (2-0)
First game, I made turn 3 Rhino and turn 4 Rhino and he scoops. Second game, he kept a five cards hand with only one land, and concede after a turn 4 Rhino.
I'm not convinced about my list, I think that I should do a few changes, but no sure about what. Any help?
It has some great options once Sidisi comes in; pulling out a See the Unwritten, or a Hornet Queen, or Bile Blight, even whipping it back to exploit itself. With StU you could even drop two Rhinos AND Tasigur in one go, six direct damage and twelve power on the board. I quite like it, certainly more than my rickety Sultai Whip. Any feedback is welcome, although judging by the lack of attention this is getting I'm not holding my breath. Shame as it does work nicely.
I like Sidisi, tutoring + a 4/6 Deathtouch for 3BB and eating a Caryatid or a Wayfinder is a good cost. I like to use Ashen Rider with See the Unwritten, but your list seems pretty solid.
Next time that I'll go to FNM (in a month, this weeks I'll be occupied) I'll do some changes to see how it works.
What do you think about the new Dragonlord Dromoka? I want to try 1 at least in the main and see if it works. Maybe I'll use some Dromoka's Command.
I pulled a Dromoka on the day for the prerelease so I've stuck it in the sideboard. I can see it being very useful against Control decks. The command could be useful against Burn decks.
I loved Ashen Rider in there but if you draw it early it's a bugger to get rid of, so stuck with the Doomwakes. They of course trigger off each other with Unwritten so it's a combined -4/-4.
Not sure Tasigur does a whole lot other than being a potentially cheap T3 play, not sure he fits very well...
For what it's worth, and I don't think anyone plays this list much, I took this to a fourth place out of 16 in my FNM last night. Only difference was I had a Pharika instead of one of the Banishing Lights. Won two, drew 1-1 with the 2nd place finisher and lost 0-2 to the winner with an Abzan Control deck, whom I could have either beaten or at least gone 1-1 with. Ended up drawing about six lands on the trot when a single Siege Rhino would have won me the game. And any other card really. Wasn't able to answer a pile of Elspeth tokens and in the final turns they all got +2/+2 and flew in for something stupid. Could have had it...
I'll keep talking to myself here then... I've taken this to a first and second place at my FNM the last couple of weeks and a second at Game Day. My biggest problem is Abzan Control, but they guy playing it has admitted he has tuned his deck to deal with mine, which is praise in a way. The rest I'm fairly solid against.
As it stands (and probably more for my own record here), this is the deck:
Palace Siege is the sort of odd one out. Not sure what to do with it. Maybe a third Doomwake or something. Found that Pharika was a bit slow, which is saying something in a slow deck... My SB is obviously a lot about removal... Not quite sure in which direction to take this though, so it'll probably just hang around as is. Open to suggestions though, if anyone reads this...
Check out the Star City Games open this last weekend, 14 year old kid with Abzan Reanimator dominated them. It was awesome, it actually got me to pull out my abzan reanimator deck that i built when dragons first came out.
Im a big fan of Abzan already, and his list was good. Similar to yours. He beat Mono Red aggro in the final, 2-1. Surprisingly, no drown and sorrow. It was fun to watch. Once he put the whip on the board in the final game, the other went and basically shook his hand.
4 Forest
1 Plains
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
4 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Spells (12)
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Murderous Cut
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
2 Arbor Colossus
4 Fleecemane Lion
1 Mastery of the Unseen
2 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
1 Utter End
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Thoughtseize
Yeay, love for the Constellanimator. I play a lot against Mono Red Aggro, partly because my son plays it, and with the right starting hand it will smash it. It just needs to get to turn 4 and then roll. I'll have a look at this list in some depth...
Working on a Abzan Reanimator with Red. I think with the ability to use our graveyard for resources that is we could add a 4th color if its worth it. So i'm sorry if this is not the right place to post but I couldn't justify starting a new thread for it. Which by the way, the amount of information for making a reanimator deck on this thread is great!
Utility Spells
0-4x Thoughtseize Any disruption is good. Only the best one.
0-3x Hero's Downfall Could probably be in sidboard. I feel its to slow against aggro and sometimes a dead draw against control.
0-4x Abzan Charm Awesome card against any match except maybe mono-red aggro.
1-3x Murderous Cut Staple.
0-4x Strength from the Fallen Recently saw pro-tour play and can be a game winner. Super underrated and I kinda wanna play two copies
0-2x Liliana Vess Distruption, Card fetch, Discard a big creature, and Flavor for the deck
*Note: There are more but theses are just the cards i personally wanted work with.
New to reanimator so I may need convincing if a card is worth playing.
I'll post my first version of the deck tomorrow. Would love suggestions and opinions.
Yeah, I'm going the same way, going to try Dragonlord Atarka, definitely one and maybe two if I keep a Hornet Queen or not. Going to put in a Haven of the Spirit Dragon for extra recursion and a couple of Nomad Outpost for the land. It could work or blow up spectacularly.
Two ordered, have to try it. Tasigur is nice if he can be cast as a 1-land, 5-delve creature, but then he does nothing. I have so much chaff in the graveyard that I never get anything useful back if I use his ability ("Here, have a Wayfinder..."), so yeah, similar deal really; turn 3 play (with Caryatid) which was as good as Tasigur could ever be, can block, speeds up everything which this deck desperately needs, and actually does something. Not sure why I missed that... Temur Battle Rage... Again, interesting...
Kinda disagree with some cards, like Temur Battle Rage but i kinda agree with Surrak, the Hunt Caller but i'm not sure if these are cards this deck wants to play. Sure they both are strong but are still conditional cards.
I'm trying to figure out the best ratio of card to make it work.
How many reanimator cards like the whip vs how many reanimator targets like Atarka?
Edit: With the addition of Red, you can play cards like Tormenting Voice which is not bad in the sense of
you still get to discard a card if it gets countered. If your on the reanimator plan.
I def see what your saying for sure. Temur was a thought. But I have to say that surrak seems to play nicely for me anyway. I too have long fought with the blance to the whip. Its weird to nail.
I'm not sure I see where Dromoka fits with the theme of the deck other than as a counter-control option. Fun to see the deck get a bit of attention though.
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Siege Rhino
4 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Fleecemane Lion
2 Wingmate Roc
2 Doomwake Giant
1 Ashen Rider
2 Hornet Queen
Spells - 7
2 Commune with the Gods
4 Murderous Cut
1 See the Unwritten
Enchantments - 4
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Banishing Light
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Mana Confluence
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Abzan Charm
2 Utter End
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Thoughtseize
3 Bile Blight
1 Drown in Sorrow
2 End Hostilities
Report:
Round 1 vs Abzan outlast....it was some kid playing an outlast deck at fnm...enough said.
Round 2 vs Selesnya Midrange. Game 1 my opponent got stuck on lands and I Murderous Cut an Elvish Mystic after I saw a missed land drop. Smooth sailing after that. Game 2 was quite close, I was stumbling on threats in the early game, I ended the game at 1 life. An early Whip, a Courser, and a monstrous Fleecemane allowed me to attack repeatedly gaining life(opponent had fliers so no way to block). The repeated life gain allowed me to stay in the race eventually finishing the game at one life.
Round 3 vs G/R monsters/devotion this was an odd list, he was using green devotion to make mana for Crater's Claws, using a devotion mana dork instead of Nykthos. Whip was the all star here, Siege Rhino's for days. And a very timely Whip activation for Ashen Rider to kill his devotion dork when i was in Crater's Claws range in game 2.
Round 4 vs Jeskai Agro First game was easily mine, Whip and Siege Rhino put me out of burn range quickly. Game 2 Commune with the Gods came up huge and found my 2nd Whip the turn after he erased my first. Again my life gain and bigger threats made it easy.
Round 5 vs Mardu Midrange Game one I got steam rolled by 3 Butcher of the Horde, I simply didn't have enough removal. Post board I sided out my Satyr Wayfinders and Doomwake Giants for more removal and Sorin. Games 2 and 3 played out with me having the right removal at the right time, Sorin did a huge amount of work giving me card advantage and life gain, since I didn't see any Whips in this match. I feel like sideboarding out the Doomwakes was wrong in this matchup, as he had Rabblemaster, I probably should have sided out Fleecemane instead.
I am interested in trying out Tasigur, the Golden Fang possibly replacing Fleecemane Lion. I do have some concerns about playing Tasigur and 4x Murderous Cut, as this could be to much delve. But I feel like Tasigur will allow me to have an agressive early creature if I need it, albeit on turn 3 instead of turn 2, also he will give me card advantage in the long grindy games, he will provide me with a more reliable source of ferocious trigger on See the Unwritten than Fleecemane currently does, and possibly my favorite part of Tasigur is the possible tempo plays. Imagine playing End Hostilities and Tasigur on the same turn.
I'm sure someone has tested Tasigur over this past weekend, is he the real deal?
Also any questions or comments about my list are welcome.
Regardless if someone is interested in taking over this primer/ making a new one which is up to date feel free. Im not sure how it would work but i imagine we can contact a mod and get it moving.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/598381-kiki-chord-kiki-company
Bring to Niv
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/814060-bring-to-niv-the-golden-deck
Legacy - Lands
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/535484-primer-lands
But it did top 8 in the last GP:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1232182
I played the list that I posted in my previous post this FNM, and I ended 2-2. Report:
Round 1: U/W Heroic. (1-2)
I hate that deck, they always have the protection spell in hand. First game he kept a hand without creatures and scooped turn 5. Second game, he was crushing me until I get an End Hostilities and the game stalled. At last, he won me. Third game, he had god-hand and stomped me in turn 4.
Round 2: Mardu (2-0)
A kid that was learning to play, it was easy.
Round 3: U/B Control (0-2)
This round was versus a friend, first game was close until he Ashioked me a Rhino and protected it with counters and removal, eventually he won because I didn't draw a Whip. Game 2, I draw about 15 lands in total, with Courser in battlefield cleaning my top, and didn't draw any threats.
Round 4: G/W aggro (2-0)
First game, I made turn 3 Rhino and turn 4 Rhino and he scoops. Second game, he kept a five cards hand with only one land, and concede after a turn 4 Rhino.
I'm not convinced about my list, I think that I should do a few changes, but no sure about what. Any help?
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
2 Doomwake Giant
2 Tasigur, The Golden Fang
2 Hornet Queen
Sorceries 8
2 Murderous Cut
2 Hero's Downfall
2 See the Unwritten
2 Thoughtseize
2 Banishing Light
3 Whip of Erebos
Land 22
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Temple of Malady
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Blossoming Sands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Windswept Heath
1 Resolute Archangel
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Bile Blight
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Soul of Innistrad
2 Utter End
2 Merciless Executioner
1 Crux of Fate
2 Erase
1 Glare of Heresy
It has some great options once Sidisi comes in; pulling out a See the Unwritten, or a Hornet Queen, or Bile Blight, even whipping it back to exploit itself. With StU you could even drop two Rhinos AND Tasigur in one go, six direct damage and twelve power on the board. I quite like it, certainly more than my rickety Sultai Whip. Any feedback is welcome, although judging by the lack of attention this is getting I'm not holding my breath. Shame as it does work nicely.
Next time that I'll go to FNM (in a month, this weeks I'll be occupied) I'll do some changes to see how it works.
What do you think about the new Dragonlord Dromoka? I want to try 1 at least in the main and see if it works. Maybe I'll use some Dromoka's Command.
I loved Ashen Rider in there but if you draw it early it's a bugger to get rid of, so stuck with the Doomwakes. They of course trigger off each other with Unwritten so it's a combined -4/-4.
Not sure Tasigur does a whole lot other than being a potentially cheap T3 play, not sure he fits very well...
As it stands (and probably more for my own record here), this is the deck:
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
2 Doomwake Giant
2 Tasigur, The Golden Fang
2 Hornet Queen
Sorceries 9
2 Murderous Cut
2 Hero's Downfall
2 See the Unwritten
2 Commune With the Gods
1 Ultimate Price
1 Banishing Light
3 Whip of Erebos
1 Palace Siege
Land 22
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Temple of Malady
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Blossoming Sands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Windswept Heath
2 Bile Blight
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Soul of Innistrad
2 Utter End
2 Crux of Fate
2 Naturalize
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Ultimate Price
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Dromoka's Command
Palace Siege is the sort of odd one out. Not sure what to do with it. Maybe a third Doomwake or something. Found that Pharika was a bit slow, which is saying something in a slow deck... My SB is obviously a lot about removal... Not quite sure in which direction to take this though, so it'll probably just hang around as is. Open to suggestions though, if anyone reads this...
Im a big fan of Abzan already, and his list was good. Similar to yours. He beat Mono Red aggro in the final, 2-1. Surprisingly, no drown and sorrow. It was fun to watch. Once he put the whip on the board in the final game, the other went and basically shook his hand.
2 Den Protector
2 Hornet Queen
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Siege Rhino
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Doomwake Giant
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Lands (24)
4 Forest
1 Plains
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
4 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Spells (12)
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Murderous Cut
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
2 Arbor Colossus
4 Fleecemane Lion
1 Mastery of the Unseen
2 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
1 Utter End
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Thoughtseize
4x Sylvan Caryatid Staple
4x Courser of Kruphix Staple
4x Satyr Wayfinder Staple
Enablers
4x Satyr Wayfinder Staple
2-4x Commune with the Gods Staple
0-4x Scout the Borders Finds me a creature or land so i'm not forced to take a creature.
1-4x See the Unwritten Stable of at least 1. I love the card, and helps
0-2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang? Not sure if he works well in this deck.
Utility Spells
0-4x Thoughtseize Any disruption is good. Only the best one.
0-3x Hero's Downfall Could probably be in sidboard. I feel its to slow against aggro and sometimes a dead draw against control.
0-4x Abzan Charm Awesome card against any match except maybe mono-red aggro.
1-3x Murderous Cut Staple.
0-4x Strength from the Fallen Recently saw pro-tour play and can be a game winner. Super underrated and I kinda wanna play two copies
0-2x Liliana Vess Distruption, Card fetch, Discard a big creature, and Flavor for the deck
Reanimators/Others
2-3x Whip of Erebos Staple
1-4x See the Unwritten Stable of at least 1. I love the card, and helps
0-2x Endless Obedience I don't know how i feel about this card, But convoke is okay.
0-4x Rescue from the Underworld Instant Speed and works nicely with "Enter the battlefield" effects.
2-4x Den Protector Staple. Huge value card when flipped up. Possible unblockable with Strength from the Fallen
0-3x Fearsome Awakening
0-2x Fated Return
Reanimated(by CMC)
4x Siege Rhino Staple
0-2x Doomwake Giant Can be a dead draw sometimes. But it's potential is unmatched.
0-1x Dragonlord Kolaghan Worth Reanimating. Definitely a huge threat.
0-3x Nessian Wilds Ravager It's fight ablity is kinda nice with lifelink or just has removal. Or atleast a 12/12
0-2x Soul of Theros I don't know about this card, but it seems to be a staple in a lot of Abzan Reanimator decks.
0-1x Atarka, World Render Considering but probably not. Only real value is with Whip.
1-2x Dragonlord Atarka Staple. When i saw this card, I knew its full potential is in a reanimator deck.
1-3x Hornet Queen Staple
0-1x Resolute Archangel Possibly an underrated card. I don't know how i feel about it.
0-2x Sandsteppe Mastodon I like this card. Hardcast or reanimated, there's value.
0-1x Archetype of Endurance Sideboard? Dragonlord Ojutai, Fleecemane Lion, Prognostic Sphinx, and Silumgar, the Drifting Death are evil and played. Not to mention Narset, Enlightened Master is still in standard.
0-2x Ashen Rider Value reanimated target. Living the dream if i can sacrifice it to an uncountered Rescue from the Underworld
*Note: There are more but theses are just the cards i personally wanted work with.
New to reanimator so I may need convincing if a card is worth playing.
Exactly! lol I've been toying with Temur Battle rage as well.
I also like the fleecemane main board as well. Ive gone to it being main board 100%
It works well. I was never a huge fan of Tasigur in the first place, i understand its a great card and all, just not my deal i guess.
I'm trying to figure out the best ratio of card to make it work.
How many reanimator cards like the whip vs how many reanimator targets like Atarka?
Edit: With the addition of Red, you can play cards like Tormenting Voice which is not bad in the sense of
you still get to discard a card if it gets countered. If your on the reanimator plan.