I've played it at first but I dont really like the possible 2 for 1. And Its never really hurt me too much, I have been thinking that I may need it with the up tick in Whip of Erebos.
I played two Abzan Midrange decks, both of which I 2-0ed. Pre-board, Abzan isn't to difficult to deal with having Banishing Light, Hushwing Gryff, and Disdainful Stroke. Post board it gets even better with more counters.
2-1 vs Temur aggro - First game i couldn't deal with a turn 2 Savage Knucklebladeon the draw. i lost fairly quickly. Game two and three is a lot better with boarding in some counters and Phyrexian Revoker, which hits a ridiculous amount of targets in this deck. Turn 2 Nyx-Fleece into T3 Mantis Rider into T4 Phyrexian Revoker naming Knuckleblade was hard for him to deal with.
2-0 vs Constellation - Game 1 i won by the skin of my teeth by racing with my mantis rider and a timely Jeskai Charm top deck. Game 2 I sided in 1 more Hushwing and 2 negates. I won it pretty easily with 2 hushwings, so not much of his stuff was triggering and once i landed a SBD that he couldnt deal with it was game over.
Jeskai needs to move towards tokens and wingmate roc strategies. Seeker is becoming very bad and gryff seems better suited in the side. Play disdainful main to deal with whip/rhino.
Jeskai needs to move towards tokens and wingmate roc strategies. Seeker is becoming very bad and gryff seems better suited in the side. Play disdainful main to deal with whip/rhino.
Wingmate is cool in decks with lots of creatures. Care to elaborate?
Yeah, I don't think Wingmate Roc belongs in this list. Jeskai Tokens is another deck entirely.
Congrats @ thisissafety. I take it you prefer SBD over the planeswalkers? Can I ask why? Also, can you elaborate on your sideboard choices Eidolon of Rhetoric and Prognostic Sphinx?
@Tapped Out Thank you, I do prefer SBD mostly because of my meta which is full of abzan and white based decks. So Sarkhan was getting exiled almost as soon as he hit the board. I also found i was rarely wanting to use his -3, it wasnt killing anything lightning bolt or stoke wasnt already killing. I haven't even tried chandra or elspeth, so i cant say much about them.
Eidolon of Rhetoric i'm still testing in the sideboard. It either wrecks Jeskai Combo or it does nothing because of retraction helix being the first card they play that turn, but i also keep my gods willing in like 95% of the time.
prognostic sphinx is usually brought in against heavy Black removal based decks. i only have 11 creatures, 9 of which can attack, so having a creature that can stay around through black kill spells is nice. It will also set up all the burn or counter spells i'll need to finish the game.
I've also been considering running a couple of ram mainboard to shut down most of the big ground creatures. I'm usually not overly offensive with my seekers, so I was thinking about swapping two seekers for two rams and letting my two drop be more of a defensive, posturing play into my super-offensive 3 drops (playsets of rabblemaster and mantis).
although this could possibly become right, who knows. This doesnt have any reason or why behind it. Its just "Do this because". No reason why, no pros/cons, no anything.
Can you give some more insight as to why you believe this should be the sway of the deck?
although this could possibly become right, who knows. This doesnt have any reason or why behind it. Its just "Do this because". No reason why, no pros/cons, no anything.
Can you give some more insight as to why you believe this should be the sway of the deck?
This deck isnt putting up crazy good results at the live big tournaments lately, but i dont know why, because i still seem to wreck with it online. 24 land is the right number with the amount of scry we have, for sure. This deck really wants 5 lands in play and you can usually get there with 24. I play only 3 magma jets, and my flex cards in the miandeck are 1 Disdainful Stroke, 1 Banishing Light, 2 Dig Through Time. I also like to play 2 Hushwings, Zero Brimaz, 2 Storm Breaths, and 1 Sarkhan. I found i was usually starving for a finisher and i like having three 5 drops that can do that for me.
I think it is important here that all my creatures, besides Seeker, have haste. Rabble doesnt either, but the token does, which is fine. I havent seem to be having problems with Mardu or Temur, you just have to play it like the mirror. Wait them out, whoever blinks first will usually lose. If Temur tries to jam an Heir of the Wilds on turn 2, i want to have the mana up to kill it at the end of their turn, play my 3rd land, and play Rabble or Mantis Rider. Now, they are left to answering your Rabble/Mantis on their own turn and they pass it to you where you can deploy your next hasty threat. Just try and keep the pressure going if they are left answering on their turn. Hushwing essentially has haste, since you play it on their turn.
Things to keep in mind:
- One of's are great in this deck, we have Dig.
- Not playing Brimaz, i think, is right since them you have zero double white spells.
- Dont blink first, ever. Trying to force a Rabble on your turn into their open mana is just a one way ticket to Losertown.
- Hushwing has been fantastic since more people are playing the stupid Sidisi deck. It stops Sidisi, Satyr Wayfinder, Doomwake, Hornet Queen, etc. Hushwing, not just good against Abzan anymore.
- Our worst enemy is usually a Planeswalker that comes in and immediately goes to 5 (all of them being played right now) and Whip. I think Stroke is so good right now due to this. Luckily, end of turn Hishwing, plus main phase Mantis rider does 5 in the air and kills a lot of planeswalkers if you cant Stroke it.
Thats my thoughts, this deck is still really good, i enjoy playing it since it has a little more to do than just playing big dumb creatures and removal.
You would think that Rabblered would be a good MU for us, but thats the deck i lose to the most. Even with Angers in the side, they get there somehow. Due to this, I've cut down on the angers to make room for better cards in other matchups. I suppose your best bet against Rabblered is to one for one them and get your Digs so you dont run out of gas.
No the deck doesn't need much restructuring for Roc and tokens, Had a handful of testing partners take down PTQs/5ks this weekend with lists that were made. I'm not into giving out decklists I didn't directly contribute too (I'm testing other decks) so I'll wait for it all to become public info.
It's all about dropping a big creature to beat Abzan into a pulp before it can cast planeswalkers and Wingmate Roc.
I'm thinking about main deck Prognostic Sphinx because it doesn't die to Hero's Downfall and Murderous Cut. I think it's possible to play 25 land as you need something to discard for it to use the protection and it makes it easier to cast.
I've been doing a little bit of testing with various big flyers.
Now this brings the beats. Often I would find myself counting red mana to see if I could finish the game with firebreathing... then it eats a removal spell.
I forget to draw cards when it is in the graveyard late in the game. This could be powerful but I'm not sure just yet. I certainly think a 6/6 flyer gives plenty of decks nightmares.
What I'm hearing a lot of people say is that Seeker of the Way isn't cutting it any more. I just dies too quickly or is simply blanked by Courser and friends.
So, what do we do? Just drop it and play something else in its place? Monastery Swiftspear? Or do we just drop it perio and load up on burn.
I'd love to get folks' thoughts on how to solve this unfortunate riddle.
Seeker is great against the new faster decks in the format: Heroics, Sligh,,,etc.
It can be bad against the midrange decks and Whip of Erebos.
I think it still deserves a main slot, and the board should adapt.
As far as the token strategy is concerned, I saw a token build that used the synergy with Convoke spells (Stoke the FLames, Devouring Light) and Jeskai Ascendancy minus the combo. It had some potential but seemed slow and fragile. I think we can learn from it.
With some more testing, there may be a way to incorporate tokens, especially from Raise the Alarm, with winning.
No the deck doesn't need much restructuring for Roc and tokens, Had a handful of testing partners take down PTQs/5ks this weekend with lists that were made. I'm not into giving out decklists I didn't directly contribute too (I'm testing other decks) so I'll wait for it all to become public info.
This sounds really mysterious and enlightened, but fails to produce new info or tech.
I saw a deck tonight that tried to synergize convoke and tokens, but was still pretty janky.
No the deck doesn't need much restructuring for Roc and tokens, Had a handful of testing partners take down PTQs/5ks this weekend with lists that were made. I'm not into giving out decklists I didn't directly contribute too (I'm testing other decks) so I'll wait for it all to become public info.
I like this idea and heard of this strategy going around this past weekend.
I've been finding success utilizing Nyx-fleece Ram rather than using Seeker of the Way. My local meta is heavy aggro and the ram helps to slow down there decks. At the same time it has value with the little bit of life gain each turn. It also slows down Savage Knuckleblade.
The earlier decks that played Seeker alongside Titan's Strength and Gods Willing made such better use of him.
He's not Heir of the Wilds, that's for sure. I end up boarding him out in nearly every matchup these days. Although he is pretty stellar against control, but decks that don't play early creatures are few and far between these days, unfortunately.
I also find I board him out a lot on the DRAW. I usually bring him in because he is a turn 2 threat that synergizes with the deck amazingly on the play. On the draw he feels "slow" for lack of a better word.
He's so good though. I don't find myself wanting to board him out (and I don't) ever. In the mirror he gains life or at least eats a magma jet their turn and that's the bottom, his ceiling is dumb. Doubles also tend to lead to blowouts.
I have a hard time thinking of a batch matchup for him actually. I dunno, maybe we're on different game plans, but it seems to me we might as well get extra value out of our burn and we get to do stuff on turn 2 where we often don't have anything else to do.
SCENARIO (on the draw) Turn 2:
opp: plays tap land says go.
us: land, seeker go.
opp: mantis rider swing for three.
us: bolt, swing for three, gain three.
Thats is best case senario. Most of the time they will have a 2nd untapped mana for multiple things and you cant just run out a seeker. I find the matchup creature wise in the mirror and mardu is very chess like, all the while you both are flinging burn at each other begging for the other one to tap out.
Thats is best case senario. Most of the time they will have a 2nd untapped mana for multiple things and you cant just run out a seeker. I find the matchup creature wise in the mirror and mardu is very chess like, all the while you both are flinging burn at each other begging for the other one to tap out.
That's why it's important to not blink first when you're on the draw.
On the play you can just keep running out guys. There is no more Doom Blade or Ultimate Price. Running out guys will force them to use their mana and cards in defensive way. It's almost a strategic "soft lock" to keep them dealing with your guys and not attaining any board presence of their own.
Has anyone had any success with Keranos in the MB?
I ask because I'm considering using him as a 1-of in the main to make room for a Chandra in the side. It seems to me that Chandra has something to do in almost every matchup (eating small aggro creatures, removing blockers against midrange, drawing cards against control) but I don't want to lose Keranos. He just seems nearly unbeatable if the opponent can't get rid of him or outrace the card draw/bolt engine.
And as far as midrange hate goes, how viable do you all think running 2 Suspension Field, 1 Banishing Light, and 2 End Hostilities is? I'm basing my list off of one that ran the full playset of Suspension Fields in the side and I'm not sure which is better. End Hostilities forces me to drag the game out longer, but I also almost never lose if I can resolve it and then play a threat/Dig Through Time.
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I've played it at first but I dont really like the possible 2 for 1. And Its never really hurt me too much, I have been thinking that I may need it with the up tick in Whip of Erebos.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
4 Mantis Rider
3 Hushwing Gryff
2 Nyx-Fleece Ram
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Spells
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dig Through Time
2 Banishing Light
1 Gods Willing
1 Dissolve
1 End Hostilities
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
1 Nullify
1 Circle of Flame
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Hushwing Gryff
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Prognostic Sphinx
I played two Abzan Midrange decks, both of which I 2-0ed. Pre-board, Abzan isn't to difficult to deal with having Banishing Light, Hushwing Gryff, and Disdainful Stroke. Post board it gets even better with more counters.
2-1 vs Temur aggro - First game i couldn't deal with a turn 2 Savage Knucklebladeon the draw. i lost fairly quickly. Game two and three is a lot better with boarding in some counters and Phyrexian Revoker, which hits a ridiculous amount of targets in this deck. Turn 2 Nyx-Fleece into T3 Mantis Rider into T4 Phyrexian Revoker naming Knuckleblade was hard for him to deal with.
2-0 vs Constellation - Game 1 i won by the skin of my teeth by racing with my mantis rider and a timely Jeskai Charm top deck. Game 2 I sided in 1 more Hushwing and 2 negates. I won it pretty easily with 2 hushwings, so not much of his stuff was triggering and once i landed a SBD that he couldnt deal with it was game over.
Wingmate is cool in decks with lots of creatures. Care to elaborate?
Congrats @ thisissafety. I take it you prefer SBD over the planeswalkers? Can I ask why? Also, can you elaborate on your sideboard choices Eidolon of Rhetoric and Prognostic Sphinx?
Eidolon of Rhetoric i'm still testing in the sideboard. It either wrecks Jeskai Combo or it does nothing because of retraction helix being the first card they play that turn, but i also keep my gods willing in like 95% of the time.
prognostic sphinx is usually brought in against heavy Black removal based decks. i only have 11 creatures, 9 of which can attack, so having a creature that can stay around through black kill spells is nice. It will also set up all the burn or counter spells i'll need to finish the game.
Can you give some more insight as to why you believe this should be the sway of the deck?
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I assume you are referencing wingmate roc?
I don't see this deck running Roc without a fundamental change to it's structure.
I think it is important here that all my creatures, besides Seeker, have haste. Rabble doesnt either, but the token does, which is fine. I havent seem to be having problems with Mardu or Temur, you just have to play it like the mirror. Wait them out, whoever blinks first will usually lose. If Temur tries to jam an Heir of the Wilds on turn 2, i want to have the mana up to kill it at the end of their turn, play my 3rd land, and play Rabble or Mantis Rider. Now, they are left to answering your Rabble/Mantis on their own turn and they pass it to you where you can deploy your next hasty threat. Just try and keep the pressure going if they are left answering on their turn. Hushwing essentially has haste, since you play it on their turn.
Things to keep in mind:
- One of's are great in this deck, we have Dig.
- Not playing Brimaz, i think, is right since them you have zero double white spells.
- Dont blink first, ever. Trying to force a Rabble on your turn into their open mana is just a one way ticket to Losertown.
- Hushwing has been fantastic since more people are playing the stupid Sidisi deck. It stops Sidisi, Satyr Wayfinder, Doomwake, Hornet Queen, etc. Hushwing, not just good against Abzan anymore.
- Our worst enemy is usually a Planeswalker that comes in and immediately goes to 5 (all of them being played right now) and Whip. I think Stroke is so good right now due to this. Luckily, end of turn Hishwing, plus main phase Mantis rider does 5 in the air and kills a lot of planeswalkers if you cant Stroke it.
Thats my thoughts, this deck is still really good, i enjoy playing it since it has a little more to do than just playing big dumb creatures and removal.
You would think that Rabblered would be a good MU for us, but thats the deck i lose to the most. Even with Angers in the side, they get there somehow. Due to this, I've cut down on the angers to make room for better cards in other matchups. I suppose your best bet against Rabblered is to one for one them and get your Digs so you dont run out of gas.
Savage Knuckleblade and Siege Rhino the 2 main offenders but there's also plenty of Polukranos, World Eater and Stormbreath Dragon lurking about.
It's all about dropping a big creature to beat Abzan into a pulp before it can cast planeswalkers and Wingmate Roc.
I'm thinking about main deck Prognostic Sphinx because it doesn't die to Hero's Downfall and Murderous Cut. I think it's possible to play 25 land as you need something to discard for it to use the protection and it makes it easier to cast.
I've been doing a little bit of testing with various big flyers.
Serra Angel
Just not tough enough to use as a blocker so the vigilance doesn't matter that much. Also getting WW can be an issue every now and then.
Medomai the Ageless
6 mana for a 4/4 just doesn't cut it. Too much has to go right until you can even get to that extra turn.
Shivan Dragon
Now this brings the beats. Often I would find myself counting red mana to see if I could finish the game with firebreathing... then it eats a removal spell.
Soul of Ravnica
I forget to draw cards when it is in the graveyard late in the game. This could be powerful but I'm not sure just yet. I certainly think a 6/6 flyer gives plenty of decks nightmares.
So, what do we do? Just drop it and play something else in its place? Monastery Swiftspear? Or do we just drop it perio and load up on burn.
I'd love to get folks' thoughts on how to solve this unfortunate riddle.
It can be bad against the midrange decks and Whip of Erebos.
I think it still deserves a main slot, and the board should adapt.
As far as the token strategy is concerned, I saw a token build that used the synergy with Convoke spells (Stoke the FLames, Devouring Light) and Jeskai Ascendancy minus the combo. It had some potential but seemed slow and fragile. I think we can learn from it.
With some more testing, there may be a way to incorporate tokens, especially from Raise the Alarm, with winning.
This sounds really mysterious and enlightened, but fails to produce new info or tech.
I saw a deck tonight that tried to synergize convoke and tokens, but was still pretty janky.
I like this idea and heard of this strategy going around this past weekend.
He's not Heir of the Wilds, that's for sure. I end up boarding him out in nearly every matchup these days. Although he is pretty stellar against control, but decks that don't play early creatures are few and far between these days, unfortunately.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I have a hard time thinking of a batch matchup for him actually. I dunno, maybe we're on different game plans, but it seems to me we might as well get extra value out of our burn and we get to do stuff on turn 2 where we often don't have anything else to do.
SCENARIO (on the draw) Turn 2:
opp: plays tap land says go.
us: land, seeker go.
opp: mantis rider swing for three.
us: bolt, swing for three, gain three.
Seems super sweet and it happens all the time.
And apparently I've changed my name: Ugh
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
On the play you can just keep running out guys. There is no more Doom Blade or Ultimate Price. Running out guys will force them to use their mana and cards in defensive way. It's almost a strategic "soft lock" to keep them dealing with your guys and not attaining any board presence of their own.
In the mirror, if you have a choice of threat into open mana or pass with a strike/jet, you pass. Everytime
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I ask because I'm considering using him as a 1-of in the main to make room for a Chandra in the side. It seems to me that Chandra has something to do in almost every matchup (eating small aggro creatures, removing blockers against midrange, drawing cards against control) but I don't want to lose Keranos. He just seems nearly unbeatable if the opponent can't get rid of him or outrace the card draw/bolt engine.
And as far as midrange hate goes, how viable do you all think running 2 Suspension Field, 1 Banishing Light, and 2 End Hostilities is? I'm basing my list off of one that ran the full playset of Suspension Fields in the side and I'm not sure which is better. End Hostilities forces me to drag the game out longer, but I also almost never lose if I can resolve it and then play a threat/Dig Through Time.
U/R Delver