OK, so here's what I'll be playing at my Saturday event (3 rounds of standard) assuming I can get the Temples of Mystery, Temples of Plenty and Windswept Heaths:
Sideboard plan is Feat of Resistance to replace Ajani's Presence if I come up against a lot of non-destruction based removal. Negates to go in against Jeskai/control decks that themselves have a lot of control. Suspension Field against big green fatties as well as Singing Bell Strike in case those creatures are less than 3 toughness (Goblin Rabblemaster, Ashcloud Phoenix, such things). Revoke Existence because it's anti-enchantment (bye bye Courser of Kruphix, Doomwake Giant) and anti-robots (specifically WITHOUT destroying Scuttling Doom Engine) and can take care of Perilous Vault too. Originally I had 20 lands but I feel really vulnerable with that few, so I switched a Lagonna-Band Trailblazer for a Plains. 21 isn't great either, but the odds improve a bit.
Cards I wish I could include are Ajani, Mentor of Heroes (for creature finding and kickass counter generation), and Seeker of the Way because lifelink in a pinch is awesome, as well as Abzan Battle Priest, again for lifelink. But for this weekend I'll stick with what I have. My last pre-Saturday XMage test saw me keeping a 1-land hand yet winning with a 23/23 Hero of Iroas, unblockable, with two Ordeal of Thassas on him. His -1 to Aura costs is REALLY useful in a pinch, which I was certainly in. I won that game.
Edit before matches; swapped an Akroan Skyguard and Lagonna-Band Trailblazer for two Seeker of the Way, because I really want their lifelink. I'll see how it goes.
Post match edit!
First match against Abzan: 2-1 win, barely. First game went swimmingly, I Aqueous Formed and Solidarity of Heroed a creature right out of the gate and opponent couldn't keep up with it, I swung in for the win. The second game didn't go my way, I was protection-screwed so I didn't have any creatures surviving. Third game was damn damn close. The last round was me with a Favored Hoplite and opponent with multiple green and white creatures. He had 9 life and I had a Gods Willing with two Solidarity of Heroes. Crucially, he'd swung in with the white creatures leaving only green blockers, so I gave Hoplite protection from green. He responded with Bile Blight so I responded with both Solidaritys in a row, which juuuust tipped the scales and I clinched the match.
Second match against RW Heroic: 1-2 loss. First game was similar to my other first game, I boosted up a Battlewise Hoplite crazy high and he had evasion too, so I just won. Second and third matches I just got outran by the sheer amount of tokens the RW generated, along with Phalanx Leader and Hammerhand preventing my blocks. Really fast aggro decks aren't a great matchup for our deck.
Third match against Abzan 'aggro': 2-0 win. The player was a bit new, and I also hit Solidarity both games, along with at least one Hardened Scales, which is just a blowout.
Overall I was happy with the deck; I never got mana screwed, for one. Scry was vital, and the more of it we have the better. Pity that the aggro RW heroic beat me, but it simply outpaces this deck most of the time. Not sure what we can sideboard in, apart from bounce cards like Force Away which take away all the counters, maybe...
I'm thinking about taking a more UWg approach, really the only cards from green I WANT, are Solidarity of Heroes and Hardened Scales. I really like, and have had success at my FNM's with Tom Ross' toolbox style UW heroic, there are just some cases I would like to make my creatures just explode in a turn. Well, they already can with Ordeals and comboing off some draws to other instants to target them, but Solidarity seems like a flat out game winner and Hardened seems like insult to injury which I like.
The one thing I wish I could find room for is a one-of of Abzan Falconer and Singing Bell Strike main board, but then I feel like I'm talking myself into too many silver bullets. The Sideboard is usually just an extension of the main.
I like the deck, but honestly I'd ditch the Heliod's Pilgrim for 3 more Aqueous Form. Aqueous Form is almost a win-con in itself because it lets you ignore ALL the blocks. Heliod's Pilgrim is slow (a 3-drop), doesn't do Heroic and is usually just a waste on the board, at least for me. Solidarity is explosive enough for me that I'd make it a 4-of, rather than 3. Just my thoughts though.
Yeah I see, that's why I run 4 hero's. It really does make a difference with you being able to tutor for what you want then play it on the cheap. Probably 80% of my matches I have a hero/pilgrim combo with a white mana to spare(for protection or bluff protection). I could drop them, but then I leave the deck to rely more on variance, when you see pilgrim in your hand(and can play it), you actually have all of your auras at the ready....usually.
Pilgrim is weird though, I ran 4 and that was definitely too much, I've been going back and forth between 3 and 2 and I feel like I see it the same amount, mostly because of shuffling the deck and cycling through it with scry's/draws from enchants. If I drop to 2 I could probably throw in another Solidarity, maybe even take out 2 Seekers and bring in Aqueous, but thats a tough trigger to pull. I dunno.
Yeah, you've taken a more Aura-centric approach, which makes sense why you'd go for four Hero of Iroas and 5 auras that cost more than 1 CMC. For you, I'd recommend also some Battle Mastery because that can be as big a bomb (or more) than Solidarity of Heroes. Also protects against deathtouch foes, if you're not evasive already. It's true that every Heliod's Pilgrim is improving the odds of getting that key aura spell out, but I just have nightmares having only him out and missing my Heroic triggers something fierce.
I'll always be a hardcore Solidarity fanboy because two of those got me a 37/37 Akroan Skyguard in one turn once, and... the beauty of it. Hence I'll always run 4, but I can see how other spells can be useful too.
Thinking of sleeving up this deck previously posted in the thread but I was just unsure about the sideboard plan. What cards do you take in/out for various match ups? Mono/Rabble Red? GR Monsters? Jeskai? GB Constellation? Abzan Midrange?
Also do you guys still recommend running a list like that or have you tested/changed other cards to make it better?
@Ultra_Magnus, I agree in principle, but the taplands I'd be removing would be temples, which I really enjoy because of the scry. I'm always happy to see a temple in this deck, even more so than a fetch (unless I'm racing a red deck) because it'll give me scry and access to two colours, both of which are things fetches cannot do.
@EndlessRa1n, wow, yeah, that + Hardened Scales would be a hell of a party. Maybe there's a Modern +1/+1 counter deck somewhere in there, with Abzan colours...
@Matty(yyyyy); sideboard plans are bounce cards (Force Away) for anything fast and aggro-y, it makes them lose tempo. Suspension Field and Singing Bell Strike against anything with big fatties. Feat of Resistance against decks with more exile/bounce effects than destruction (Abzan/Jeskai Charms). Negate and Stubborn Denial against blue decks with counterspells, to counter their counterspells. Also need Negate and Stubborn Denial against Mardu decks and their Crackling Doom, which is a hugely good card against us.
I have to admit, I really like the idea of curving Hardened Scales into Hero of Iroas and then just playing Save the Queen at that point. I like just staying G/W but I can understand the benefits of adding Black.
I couldn't find a card called 'Save the Queen' what do you mean by that?
Back on the standard side of things, I played my version of this deck against a casual U/R Affinity deck and completely smashed it. Not the biggest challenge, but it was fun consistently winning, that's for sure.
Yet another tournament report: I took the latest iteration of my Selesnya version of the deck to a fairly competitive Monday night standard tournament w/~14 people (4 rounds).
Match 1: GB Devotion/Constellation/Whip which came in second.
G1: Slow hand, get the opponent to about 2. I had a Favored Hoplite or two and a couple of Skyguards, but no explosive cards. Master of the Feasts does some early damage (and provides greatly appreciated cards) but Whip and Hornet Queen take it away.
Sideboard: -3 Hero of Iroas, -1 Favored Hoplite, -1 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer, +3 Reclamation Sage, +2 Ainok Bond-Kin
G2: Opponent kept a hand w/2 Master of the Feasts, which helped me get the mana to cast two Reclamation Sages. He had to chump his devotion away, and I eventually got a Phalanx Leader down. 'Nuff said.
G3: Went to time, but otherwise I would have lost eventually to an active Whip and Queen
Observations: Reclamation Sages were great. I didn't draw the Bond-Kins to use against the insects. I drew a lot of meh to terrible hands and still tied the player who came in second with nothing but victories otherwise. I probably need to mulligan more. The Tuskguard Captains could have won through the insects in G3 had I brought them in. Hornet Queen and Whip are issues.
Draw: 0-0-1
Match 2: Mono-black Aggro which came in third
G1: they keep a 1-lander after a mutual mull to 6. I had plenty of time to run them over, particularly since their creatures couldn't block.
Sideboard: -3 Hero of Iroas, -1 Akroan Skyguard, +3 Reclamation Sage (good vs Gnarled Scarhide, Spiteful Returned), +1 Abzan Battle Priest
G2: Keep a 1 lander after a mull to 6. Getting close to stable when Mogis' Marauder wipes me out.
G3: Keep a 6 lander, play 1 creature which gets Bile Blighted, die.
Observations: Mulligan more. Draw better. Love the Reclamation Sages.
Loss: 0-1-1
Match 3: Temur
G1: He got a quick Knuckleblade down, but after 1 hit I had a Favored Hoplites to block. Defiant Strike on a Hoplite tames the Savagery. Stubborn Denial doesn't affect the Heroic trigger. I accumulated creatures and eventually Reaped all my opponent's life.
Sideboard: no changes.
G2: Another mull to 6, then keep a 1 lander. I was slow to start and got run over by a Stormbreath Dragon.
G3: Got 2 creatures down, then Scales. Knuckleblade came down, then ran back to the opponent's hand. Rattleclaw Mystics chumped before Trailblazer, Hoplite and Skyguard finally silenced the opposition.
Win: 1-1-1
Observations: Favored Hoplite is great. Stubborn Denial sucks against us.
Match 4: Jund. This deck evolved from RG monsters. I had never beaten this pilot in two previous tries. I tried really hard to punt this match, but our deck drew too well.
G1: Got a Favored Hoplite and a Skyguard down. Stormbreath starts racing. Phalanx Leader joins the party. Boon Satyr hops on the Dragon's back and a Caryatid clutters the ground. I am at 7 with God's Willing and Feat of Resistance in hand. If I cast them to give pro-Green on my two ground creatures before blocks, I can win. I don't, the Caryatid chumps and I lose.
Sideboard: -3 Hero of Iroas, -1 Akroan Skyguard, +3 Reclamation Sage (good vs Courser, Boon Satyr), +1 Abzan Battle Priest
G2: I get 2 creatures and Hardened Scales down and attack. Opponent blocks w/Courser. I forget about Scales and use both Defiant Strike and God's Willing to take out Courser. Stormbreath starts killing me in chunks, but a 3rd creature and Reap take him from about 12 to 0 instantly.
G3: Opponent keeps a hand w/Anger of the Gods and Stormbreath. I am stuck on Plains and Mana Confluence, so I play Hoplite, Trailblazer and Hardened Scales while 2 Phalanx Leaders rot in hand. Anger only takes out the Favored Hoplite. Another Trailblazer and Skyguard join the party while Stormbreath tries to race. Double Warrior's Lesson w/2 Scales out and 3 counters already on the Trailblazer added to the self-inflicted damage of Bloodstained Mires is lethal before I even draw the 4 cards. In this game I never had any land other than Forest and Mana Confluence.
Win: 2-1-1, 5th place out of ~14.
Observations: w/decent draws, this deck is too good for even this pilot to punt away. Hardened Scales is awesome.
Overall, the deck seems fairly tight. The pilot needs more practice w/it. I may try to work in a Heliod's Ordeal or a Chosen by Heliod. Reap is situational, a fantastic finisher that I may want less than 4 of. Reclamation Sage is great against a lot of decks, so I will be adding another to the sideboard. I loved seeing Scales, Defiant Strike and Warrior's Lesson. Phalanx Leader and Skyguard were solid. Hero of Iroas was not impressive in this deck.
I hope there will be some discussion on the new cards. Valorous stance, Dragonscale General and Soulfire Grand Master if you are in blue. Valorous will replace my current Suspension field because of its flexibility.
Fun build! I tried a variant of this involving a much less committed path like seige rhinos and feats of resistance and sorrin. Kind of a Abzhan good stuff but with counters but i quickly realized that if you want this game plan to work you have to be totally committed to it. I'm excited to pick this back up with Fate's new bolster ability think this whole counter plan will finally be competitive.
With all the FRF spoilers done, gotta say I'm disappointed for my deck. I was hoping for low-cost instants (or sorceries, I guess) which gave protection or evasion, and the only thing that really came close was Valorous Stance. Neutralizing Blast is a perfect sideboard card against Mardu decks with their Crackling Doom, though. And I feel like Soulfire Grand Master and/or Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest would be hilarious, if not particularly effective, in this deck. Recycling our protection spells and/or giving everyone double strike is just... so tempting.
Guess I'll wait another 3 months for spoilers for DTK, which will hopefully have shard dragon broods, so I get some bant lands...
@maplesmall Yeah, I totally understand. I do think 1 or 2 Monastery Mentor is worth testing. While Fabled Hero has proven too slow, something that creates a token w/out even being targeted seems good. With all our heroic enablers, prowess is good. With Phalanx Leader (if you run it), the tokens will be even better. Having more targets for Reap what is Sown is never bad.
For me, since I run wide and tall, Crackling Doom is not the worst. Hornet Nest and Hornet Queen are the worst. My best answer to flying deathtouch insects is Ainok Bond-kin. Winds of Qal Sisma could be an interesting sideboard card against hornet decks. Abzan Advantage could be interesting against Whip and Jeskai Ascendancy decks.
I think the problem is that we're really more heroic decks than counter decks. It's not surprising that a limited mechanic from five sets ago is not getting fed by the latest cards. Bolster and Outlast do us no good since they don't target (and outlast is not a spell). Even Citadel Siege doesn't trigger heroic since the targeting is done by the enchantment rather than a spell.
I agree with what you say, completely. It's just a shame that my strategy of 'pump up one/two creatures and make them unblockable' has had no help from this new set, at least at first glance. If I used Monastery Mentor I'd wanna go essentially Jeskai Tokens and use Akroan Crusader and Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Goblin Rabblemaster to go bananas tokens. But then it's not Bant anymore, it's Jeskai Tokens and it's completely different.
Hey, everyone! I am yet another lapsed player (probably gone longer than most,) looking to get back into constructed. I've been spectating standard the last few years (since Innistrad the set) but I haven't taken the leap to making decks and going out to play. It is a little intimidating after a long gap. Yesterday I suddenly got the notion that making a Sage of Hours deck would be a fun way to spend an evening (it was! I missed this. ^_^) Anyway, after coming up with a rough draft I checked to see what similar decks are running around and found out that I pretty much had a horribly optimized, creature-light version of Bant Hardened Scales. Reading through this thread has provided a ton of improvements (thanks!)
I know my evaluation skills are rusty, so I hope you don't mind me running my untested build past you guys to get your feedback. I've done extensive solo testing (for what that's worth,) and I think that unless I'm missing something, it's consistent enough and just zany enough that I'll want to actually suit up some better version of this in real life.
I know the mana base needs to be tweaked (I just distributed the lands symmetrically for the moment,) but I'm actually pretty happy with the scry-lands. If the game goes to turn five, you'll want that to drop untapped (since it enables Ajani, Mentor of Heroes and a host of profitable three-instant combinations,) but the filtering seems invaluable. I also cut Ajani down to two to make room for another Swan Song, good move / bad move?
I might be wrong on some judgment calls here, but I can explain every one. If you think this list is just terrible, please let me know why so I can see what to do better (and what I'm doing wrong.)
I haven't finalized the sideboard yet, either, but I don't think it will be too hard to swing in a much more traditional Bant Hardened Scales shell. I haven't thought very deeply about this yet, but I actually think Bant might be a winner coming out of FRF for this deck: you guys have brought up Monastery Mentor, am I crazy in thinking that it has amazing synergy with Ephara's Enlightenment? You play Enlightenment, spawn a token, and immediately return Enlightenment to your hand to cast again. It's good even without a Hero of Iroas on the board, but with both Mentor and Hero in play it basically reads:
Ephara's Enlightenment, {W}{U}
Sorcery
Trigger heroic on target creature (place one to five +1/+1 counters on that creature)
Place one to five +1/+1 counters on target creature
Monk tokens you control get +1/+1 until end of turn, then place a 1/1 white Monk token with Prowess into play
When Ephara's Enlightenment resolves, if it would be placed into your graveyard instead return it to your hand
That's the best sorcery ever printed for this deck!
Anyway, thanks everyone for tuning your Hardened Scales decks and sharing your info and results, and thanks for taking a look at mine.
Edit: Maybe this is why I shouldn't post when I'm so sleepy, it looks like Mentor triggers off Enlightenment being cast, so the token comes into play before the Enlightenment is on the battlefield to notice it. Darn.
I didn't know how to help as I just run a Selesnya aggro list, but I just got wrecked by a Sage deck. This guy was using Dakra Mystic to help dig to the Sage (although he killed me w/a 15/15 Dakra Mystic once). He also had Ordeal of Nylea and Nature's Panoply. I also wonder whether Hero of Iroas is better than Favored Hoplite for you. These are not recommendations as much as things to consider.
In the archives there are threads about Sage decks, also. If I did it right, this link should get you there.
HTH, and always love to hear about results
currently i like a lot playing on selesnya colors, and the GW heroic was a fun alternative, however i was also thinking going bant as someone is doing already.
i don't want to spend to much on it, i have the W/G fetches however not the U/W and i'm not willing to pay for them at the moment. the temples would be a nice option in the case of need.
so based on your experience, what would you think is the best option here? keep the selesnya build or splash U for the utility cards, or going U/W completely.
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3 Favored Hoplite
2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
2 Akroan Skyguard
2 Hero of Iroas
4 Battlewise Hoplite
Spells
4 Solidarity of Heroes
4 Ordeal of Thassa
4 Aqueous Form
4 Gods Willing
4 Ajani's Presence
4 Hardened Scales
2 Ranger's Guile
3 Plains
2 Forest
2 Island
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
2 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Plenty
4 Feat of Resistance
4 Negate
2 Suspension Field
2 Singing Bell Strike
3 Revoke Existence
Sideboard plan is Feat of Resistance to replace Ajani's Presence if I come up against a lot of non-destruction based removal. Negates to go in against Jeskai/control decks that themselves have a lot of control. Suspension Field against big green fatties as well as Singing Bell Strike in case those creatures are less than 3 toughness (Goblin Rabblemaster, Ashcloud Phoenix, such things). Revoke Existence because it's anti-enchantment (bye bye Courser of Kruphix, Doomwake Giant) and anti-robots (specifically WITHOUT destroying Scuttling Doom Engine) and can take care of Perilous Vault too. Originally I had 20 lands but I feel really vulnerable with that few, so I switched a Lagonna-Band Trailblazer for a Plains. 21 isn't great either, but the odds improve a bit.
Cards I wish I could include are Ajani, Mentor of Heroes (for creature finding and kickass counter generation), and Seeker of the Way because lifelink in a pinch is awesome, as well as Abzan Battle Priest, again for lifelink. But for this weekend I'll stick with what I have. My last pre-Saturday XMage test saw me keeping a 1-land hand yet winning with a 23/23 Hero of Iroas, unblockable, with two Ordeal of Thassas on him. His -1 to Aura costs is REALLY useful in a pinch, which I was certainly in. I won that game.
Edit before matches; swapped an Akroan Skyguard and Lagonna-Band Trailblazer for two Seeker of the Way, because I really want their lifelink. I'll see how it goes.
Post match edit!
First match against Abzan: 2-1 win, barely. First game went swimmingly, I Aqueous Formed and Solidarity of Heroed a creature right out of the gate and opponent couldn't keep up with it, I swung in for the win. The second game didn't go my way, I was protection-screwed so I didn't have any creatures surviving. Third game was damn damn close. The last round was me with a Favored Hoplite and opponent with multiple green and white creatures. He had 9 life and I had a Gods Willing with two Solidarity of Heroes. Crucially, he'd swung in with the white creatures leaving only green blockers, so I gave Hoplite protection from green. He responded with Bile Blight so I responded with both Solidaritys in a row, which juuuust tipped the scales and I clinched the match.
Second match against RW Heroic: 1-2 loss. First game was similar to my other first game, I boosted up a Battlewise Hoplite crazy high and he had evasion too, so I just won. Second and third matches I just got outran by the sheer amount of tokens the RW generated, along with Phalanx Leader and Hammerhand preventing my blocks. Really fast aggro decks aren't a great matchup for our deck.
Third match against Abzan 'aggro': 2-0 win. The player was a bit new, and I also hit Solidarity both games, along with at least one Hardened Scales, which is just a blowout.
Overall I was happy with the deck; I never got mana screwed, for one. Scry was vital, and the more of it we have the better. Pity that the aggro RW heroic beat me, but it simply outpaces this deck most of the time. Not sure what we can sideboard in, apart from bounce cards like Force Away which take away all the counters, maybe...
The one thing I wish I could find room for is a one-of of Abzan Falconer and Singing Bell Strike main board, but then I feel like I'm talking myself into too many silver bullets. The Sideboard is usually just an extension of the main.
3 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Hero of Iroas
4 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Seeker of the way
Instants (12)
4 Gods Willing
2 Feat of Resistance
3 Defiant Strike
3 Solidarity of Heroes
Enchantments (10)
4 Ordeal of Thassa
1 Ordeal of Heliod
1 Aqueous Form
1 Stratus Walk
3 Hardened Scales
3 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Mana Confluence
2 Temple of Enlightment
2 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Plenty
3 Plains
2 Island
2 Forest
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Aqueous Form
1 Ordeal of Heliod
2 Singing Bell Strike
2 Treasure Cruise
1 Abzan Falconer
1 Erase
3 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
1 Feat of Resistance
Pilgrim is weird though, I ran 4 and that was definitely too much, I've been going back and forth between 3 and 2 and I feel like I see it the same amount, mostly because of shuffling the deck and cycling through it with scry's/draws from enchants. If I drop to 2 I could probably throw in another Solidarity, maybe even take out 2 Seekers and bring in Aqueous, but thats a tough trigger to pull. I dunno.
I'll always be a hardcore Solidarity fanboy because two of those got me a 37/37 Akroan Skyguard in one turn once, and... the beauty of it. Hence I'll always run 4, but I can see how other spells can be useful too.
I want to figure out how I could mainboard Chasm Skulker with Hardened Scales sillyness.
3 Favored Hoplite
2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
2 Akroan Skyguard
2 Hero of Iroas
4 Battlewise Hoplite
Spells
4 Solidarity of Heroes
4 Ordeal of Thassa
4 Aqueous Form
4 Gods Willing
4 Ajani's Presence
4 Hardened Scales
2 Ranger's Guile
3 Plains
2 Forest
2 Island
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
2 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Plenty
4 Feat of Resistance
4 Negate
2 Suspension Field
2 Singing Bell Strike
3 Revoke Existence
Also do you guys still recommend running a list like that or have you tested/changed other cards to make it better?
@EndlessRa1n, wow, yeah, that + Hardened Scales would be a hell of a party. Maybe there's a Modern +1/+1 counter deck somewhere in there, with Abzan colours...
@Matty(yyyyy); sideboard plans are bounce cards (Force Away) for anything fast and aggro-y, it makes them lose tempo. Suspension Field and Singing Bell Strike against anything with big fatties. Feat of Resistance against decks with more exile/bounce effects than destruction (Abzan/Jeskai Charms). Negate and Stubborn Denial against blue decks with counterspells, to counter their counterspells. Also need Negate and Stubborn Denial against Mardu decks and their Crackling Doom, which is a hugely good card against us.
Back on the standard side of things, I played my version of this deck against a casual U/R Affinity deck and completely smashed it. Not the biggest challenge, but it was fun consistently winning, that's for sure.
2 Forest
4 Mana Confluence
4 Plains
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Windswept Heath
Creatures (19)
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
4 Akroan Skyguard
4 Phalanx Leader
3 Hero of Iroas
4 Defiant Strike
3 God's Willing
4 Hardened Scales
4 Warrior's Lesson
4 Feat of Resistance
4 Reap What is Sown
1 Launch the Fleet
2 Ainok Bond-Kin
1 Hero of Iroas
2 Setessan Tactics
3 Abzan Falconer
3 Reclamation Sage
2 Tuskguard Captain
1 Abzan Battle Priest
Match 1: GB Devotion/Constellation/Whip which came in second.
G1: Slow hand, get the opponent to about 2. I had a Favored Hoplite or two and a couple of Skyguards, but no explosive cards. Master of the Feasts does some early damage (and provides greatly appreciated cards) but Whip and Hornet Queen take it away.
Sideboard: -3 Hero of Iroas, -1 Favored Hoplite, -1 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer, +3 Reclamation Sage, +2 Ainok Bond-Kin
G2: Opponent kept a hand w/2 Master of the Feasts, which helped me get the mana to cast two Reclamation Sages. He had to chump his devotion away, and I eventually got a Phalanx Leader down. 'Nuff said.
G3: Went to time, but otherwise I would have lost eventually to an active Whip and Queen
Observations: Reclamation Sages were great. I didn't draw the Bond-Kins to use against the insects. I drew a lot of meh to terrible hands and still tied the player who came in second with nothing but victories otherwise. I probably need to mulligan more. The Tuskguard Captains could have won through the insects in G3 had I brought them in. Hornet Queen and Whip are issues.
Draw: 0-0-1
Match 2: Mono-black Aggro which came in third
G1: they keep a 1-lander after a mutual mull to 6. I had plenty of time to run them over, particularly since their creatures couldn't block.
Sideboard: -3 Hero of Iroas, -1 Akroan Skyguard, +3 Reclamation Sage (good vs Gnarled Scarhide, Spiteful Returned), +1 Abzan Battle Priest
G2: Keep a 1 lander after a mull to 6. Getting close to stable when Mogis' Marauder wipes me out.
G3: Keep a 6 lander, play 1 creature which gets Bile Blighted, die.
Observations: Mulligan more. Draw better. Love the Reclamation Sages.
Loss: 0-1-1
Match 3: Temur
G1: He got a quick Knuckleblade down, but after 1 hit I had a Favored Hoplites to block. Defiant Strike on a Hoplite tames the Savagery. Stubborn Denial doesn't affect the Heroic trigger. I accumulated creatures and eventually Reaped all my opponent's life.
Sideboard: no changes.
G2: Another mull to 6, then keep a 1 lander. I was slow to start and got run over by a Stormbreath Dragon.
G3: Got 2 creatures down, then Scales. Knuckleblade came down, then ran back to the opponent's hand. Rattleclaw Mystics chumped before Trailblazer, Hoplite and Skyguard finally silenced the opposition.
Win: 1-1-1
Observations: Favored Hoplite is great. Stubborn Denial sucks against us.
Match 4: Jund. This deck evolved from RG monsters. I had never beaten this pilot in two previous tries. I tried really hard to punt this match, but our deck drew too well.
G1: Got a Favored Hoplite and a Skyguard down. Stormbreath starts racing. Phalanx Leader joins the party. Boon Satyr hops on the Dragon's back and a Caryatid clutters the ground. I am at 7 with God's Willing and Feat of Resistance in hand. If I cast them to give pro-Green on my two ground creatures before blocks, I can win. I don't, the Caryatid chumps and I lose.
Sideboard: -3 Hero of Iroas, -1 Akroan Skyguard, +3 Reclamation Sage (good vs Courser, Boon Satyr), +1 Abzan Battle Priest
G2: I get 2 creatures and Hardened Scales down and attack. Opponent blocks w/Courser. I forget about Scales and use both Defiant Strike and God's Willing to take out Courser. Stormbreath starts killing me in chunks, but a 3rd creature and Reap take him from about 12 to 0 instantly.
G3: Opponent keeps a hand w/Anger of the Gods and Stormbreath. I am stuck on Plains and Mana Confluence, so I play Hoplite, Trailblazer and Hardened Scales while 2 Phalanx Leaders rot in hand. Anger only takes out the Favored Hoplite. Another Trailblazer and Skyguard join the party while Stormbreath tries to race. Double Warrior's Lesson w/2 Scales out and 3 counters already on the Trailblazer added to the self-inflicted damage of Bloodstained Mires is lethal before I even draw the 4 cards. In this game I never had any land other than Forest and Mana Confluence.
Win: 2-1-1, 5th place out of ~14.
Observations: w/decent draws, this deck is too good for even this pilot to punt away. Hardened Scales is awesome.
Overall, the deck seems fairly tight. The pilot needs more practice w/it. I may try to work in a Heliod's Ordeal or a Chosen by Heliod. Reap is situational, a fantastic finisher that I may want less than 4 of. Reclamation Sage is great against a lot of decks, so I will be adding another to the sideboard. I loved seeing Scales, Defiant Strike and Warrior's Lesson. Phalanx Leader and Skyguard were solid. Hero of Iroas was not impressive in this deck.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
In general I don't think Bolster is a mechanic we'll be using in this deck, unless I'm mistaken.
Guess I'll wait another 3 months for spoilers for DTK, which will hopefully have shard dragon broods, so I get some bant lands...
For me, since I run wide and tall, Crackling Doom is not the worst. Hornet Nest and Hornet Queen are the worst. My best answer to flying deathtouch insects is Ainok Bond-kin. Winds of Qal Sisma could be an interesting sideboard card against hornet decks.
Abzan Advantage could be interesting against Whip and Jeskai Ascendancy decks.
I think the problem is that we're really more heroic decks than counter decks. It's not surprising that a limited mechanic from five sets ago is not getting fed by the latest cards. Bolster and Outlast do us no good since they don't target (and outlast is not a spell). Even Citadel Siege doesn't trigger heroic since the targeting is done by the enchantment rather than a spell.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I know my evaluation skills are rusty, so I hope you don't mind me running my untested build past you guys to get your feedback. I've done extensive solo testing (for what that's worth,) and I think that unless I'm missing something, it's consistent enough and just zany enough that I'll want to actually suit up some better version of this in real life.
4 Sage of Hours
4 Favored Hoplite
Enchantments (12)
4 Hardened Scales
4 Aqueous Form
4 Ordeal of Thassa
Instants (14)
4 Solidarity of Heroes
4 Gods Willing
4 Feat of Resistance
2 Swan Song
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Lands (24)
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Temple of Mystery
3 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Plains
I know the mana base needs to be tweaked (I just distributed the lands symmetrically for the moment,) but I'm actually pretty happy with the scry-lands. If the game goes to turn five, you'll want that to drop untapped (since it enables Ajani, Mentor of Heroes and a host of profitable three-instant combinations,) but the filtering seems invaluable. I also cut Ajani down to two to make room for another Swan Song, good move / bad move?
I might be wrong on some judgment calls here, but I can explain every one. If you think this list is just terrible, please let me know why so I can see what to do better (and what I'm doing wrong.)
I haven't finalized the sideboard yet, either, but I don't think it will be too hard to swing in a much more traditional Bant Hardened Scales shell. I haven't thought very deeply about this yet, but I actually think Bant might be a winner coming out of FRF for this deck: you guys have brought up Monastery Mentor, am I crazy in thinking that it has amazing synergy with Ephara's Enlightenment? You play Enlightenment, spawn a token, and immediately return Enlightenment to your hand to cast again. It's good even without a Hero of Iroas on the board, but with both Mentor and Hero in play it basically reads:
Ephara's Enlightenment, {W}{U}
Sorcery
Trigger heroic on target creature (place one to five +1/+1 counters on that creature)
Place one to five +1/+1 counters on target creature
Monk tokens you control get +1/+1 until end of turn, then place a 1/1 white Monk token with Prowess into play
When Ephara's Enlightenment resolves, if it would be placed into your graveyard instead return it to your hand
That's the best sorcery ever printed for this deck!
Anyway, thanks everyone for tuning your Hardened Scales decks and sharing your info and results, and thanks for taking a look at mine.
Edit: Maybe this is why I shouldn't post when I'm so sleepy, it looks like Mentor triggers off Enlightenment being cast, so the token comes into play before the Enlightenment is on the battlefield to notice it. Darn.
In the archives there are threads about Sage decks, also. If I did it right, this link should get you there.
HTH, and always love to hear about results
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
currently i like a lot playing on selesnya colors, and the GW heroic was a fun alternative, however i was also thinking going bant as someone is doing already.
my current list is:
4 Fabled Hero
4 Phalanx Leader
2 Fleecemane Lion
3 Banishing Light
4 Hardened Scales
2 Ordeal of Heliod
3 Ajani Steadfast
4 Ajani's Presence
2 Feat of Resistance
4 Gods Willing
2 Solidarity of Heroes
5 Forest
9 Plains
4 Blossoming Sands
4 Temple of Plenty
i don't want to spend to much on it, i have the W/G fetches however not the U/W and i'm not willing to pay for them at the moment. the temples would be a nice option in the case of need.
so based on your experience, what would you think is the best option here? keep the selesnya build or splash U for the utility cards, or going U/W completely.