Can you guys please explain why you all play 4 Caryatids? Are you trying to race other midrange decks? It seems a losing race since Mono G , Temur, Gruul will have bigger beasts on turn 4 anyway.
For early blockers? They're not that great and nyxfleece ram is far better at the job.
I have tested against the mirror and won all my games, against mono R and won all my games, jeskai tempo caused me trouble before sideboard but after that I won all my games also.
Now Maybe I'm also not playing against the best out there or jsut lucky but I still don't see the point of Sylvan caryatid. I'd rather do a despise/Thoughtseize on turn 2 then put a 0/3 defender.
I play 4 Sylvan Caryatid for many reasons, but the one you didn't mention is that it also acts as color fixing in a 3-color deck that has mana issues. As you mentioned, it also is an early blocker. Sure Nyx-Fleece Ram gives us game against Mono Red and Sligh, but that's it, so I think it's better as a sideboard card.
So I played my midrange last night to 3-1. It felt great, and the loss I felt was a variance issue and not really due to bad piloting or anything. Here's what I ran:
A few things about the list: I had to make some adjustments as I couldn't get ahold of all the cards I wanted. The hornet queen was in there in place of an extra Wingmate Roc, although the one time I played it, it did a bunch of work, so I think I'll keep one in the sideboard. I couldn't find a playset of Windswept Heath, so that's definitely a change I'll be making. Playing that in conjunction with Courser is fantastic. The sideboard is a total mess though. Bile blight and Drown in Sorrow are there for tokens/aggro decks (which I didn't play at all last night). Nyx-Fleece Ram on paper should be good, but I haven't played any aggro yet, so I'm leaving it in until I can properly test it. Despise was great against RG monsters and G ramp style decks. Dead drop was just sort of thrown in there as a test, but I never brought it in, so it's likely getting cut. Duneblast I didn't see, but the idea behind it is against other midrange decks or the green ramp decks. A great way to break board stalls.
The games:
Round 1: Some sort of bant midrange ish deck W 2-1
Not sure what his deck really was going for. It was a younger kid so seemed like he just jammed stuff he liked in there, creatures, removal, walkers, etc. I won game one really quickly so game 2 I kept a questionable hand as I wasn't totally sure what I would need and it came back to bite me.
Round 2: Temur Monsters L 1-2
I think I was well suited for this match up, except in game 2 I hit a lot of removal and little action, and when I thoughteized him I saw 2 Stubborn Denials and 2 Disdainful Strokes. Once he had his Polukranos out, I didn't have enough answers to overcome the counters. Game 3 was the only game all night that I got stuck on mana. Didn't see a black source all game. Definitely need to mulligan a bit more aggressively.
Round 3: Mardu midrange W 2-1
This one wasn't too bad. His deck revolved around recurring creatures (Tymaret, Blood soaked champion) and sacking them to butcher or tymaret himself and then also using dictate of erebos and athreos for some additional nugs. Having enough removal that exiles really just shut down his plan.
Round 4: RG Monsters W 2-1
Fairly standard monsters build. Stormbreath is something this deck definitely needs to watch out for. I watched him swing at my a lot while staring at Abzan Charms and Utter Ends. After losing the second game, I just held on to downfalls and silence the believers to answer it.
I'm pretty happy with my list, and I took steps to not take too much damage from my mana base. I think taking that much damage from lands is asking a little too much and I don't think it's entirely required. The sideboard is the biggest issue for me right now. Until the metagame settles, I figure it will be in constant flux, but I really don't know what sort of answers I need that aren't already covered in the main deck.
Edit: I forgot to mention Elspeth. While a solid card, the times I cast her seemed to be in 'win more' situations. She hasn't really pulled me back from a deficit, and the only time I tapped out to play her was on a clear board. Not sure If I'll keep her in future inclusions. Might be SB tech against the mirror to battle opposing Els.
Can you guys please explain why you all play 4 Caryatids? Are you trying to race other midrange decks? It seems a losing race since Mono G , Temur, Gruul will have bigger beasts on turn 4 anyway.
For early blockers? They're not that great and nyxfleece ram is far better at the job.
I have tested against the mirror and won all my games, against mono R and won all my games, jeskai tempo caused me trouble before sideboard but after that I won all my games also.
Now Maybe I'm also not playing against the best out there or jsut lucky but I still don't see the point of Sylvan caryatid. I'd rather do a despise/Thoughtseize on turn 2 then put a 0/3 defender.
I also feel like its the worst card in the deck. I'm going to start testing without them just to see I they actually matter. My mana base seems perfect without it and there are just so many other cards I could be running in that slot.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Can you guys please explain why you all play 4 Caryatids? Are you trying to race other midrange decks? It seems a losing race since Mono G , Temur, Gruul will have bigger beasts on turn 4 anyway.
For early blockers? They're not that great and nyxfleece ram is far better at the job.
I have tested against the mirror and won all my games, against mono R and won all my games, jeskai tempo caused me trouble before sideboard but after that I won all my games also.
Now Maybe I'm also not playing against the best out there or jsut lucky but I still don't see the point of Sylvan caryatid. I'd rather do a despise/Thoughtseize on turn 2 then put a 0/3 defender.
I also feel like its the worst card in the deck. I'm going to start testing without them just to see I they actually matter. My mana base seems perfect without it and there are just so many other cards I could be running in that slot.
As it's been said, against aggro having a blocker early is essential, and the mana fixing is pretty crucial as well. Personally, since I'm playing so many tap lands, having a small ramp to get back on curve is pretty nice as well. That being said, I have sided 1-2 out in some games, so I think testing some other options wouldn't be a bad idea.
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Running Courser and Caryatid main deck in this and the other G/x midrange decks helps shape a meta where mono red and mono black aggro aren't good enough. this, in turn, makes it seem like caryatid and courser aren't good enough. were we to remove them, we would become vulnerable to a deck that our proliferation is causing to be bad.
I guess Caryatid works well if you're playing anything that's over 5cmc like Elspeth, Roc, Nissa, Hornet Queen etc. I've cut Caryatid completely and gone with a playset of both Fleecemane Lion and Deathdealer which puts my opponent under pressure right from the start. Both cards are all upside and can win the game on their own, something that Caryatid can't do. Since my only 4 drops are Sorin and Rhino I don't even need the Caryatids anyway.
Still a lot of testing to be done but I'm going to stick with my list. It suites my play style a lot more. Interesting thing to note though is that basically every Abzan list from the recent standard tourneys have included Caryatid.
I guess Caryatid works well if you're playing anything that's over 5cmc like Elspeth, Roc, Nissa, Hornet Queen etc. I've cut Caryatid completely and gone with a playset of both Fleecemane Lion and Deathdealer which puts my opponent under pressure right from the start. Both cards are all upside and can win the game on their own, something that Caryatid can't do. Since my only 4 drops are Sorin and Rhino I don't even need the Caryatids anyway.
Still a lot of testing to be done but I'm going to stick with my list. It suites my play style a lot more. Interesting thing to note though is that basically every Abzan list from the recent standard tourneys have included Caryatid.
If you aren't trying to turn 3 your 4 drops, what beater 3 drops do you run.
Edit: looking at your post history you are running coursers and a couple afenza's. Do you really want coursers in a beater deck? I would think brimaz (if that mana works) would be a better alternative...or that 3/3 Herald of Torment or that 5/5 master of the feast flyer. Make a threat they helps with the beat downs (as people have mentioned, Caryatids are solid blockers, and a courser isn't getting through it without Sorin I guess, which you happen to be running as well...) I just think the brimaz, sorin interaction is godly.
I guess Caryatid works well if you're playing anything that's over 5cmc like Elspeth, Roc, Nissa, Hornet Queen etc. I've cut Caryatid completely and gone with a playset of both Fleecemane Lion and Deathdealer which puts my opponent under pressure right from the start. Both cards are all upside and can win the game on their own, something that Caryatid can't do. Since my only 4 drops are Sorin and Rhino I don't even need the Caryatids anyway.
Still a lot of testing to be done but I'm going to stick with my list. It suites my play style a lot more. Interesting thing to note though is that basically every Abzan list from the recent standard tourneys have included Caryatid.
If you aren't trying to turn 3 your 4 drops, what beater 3 drops do you run.
Deathdealer, Lion, Herald of Torment and Siege Rhino along with a playset of Sorin who makes every creature that much better and also turns Courser into a threat.
I guess Caryatid works well if you're playing anything that's over 5cmc like Elspeth, Roc, Nissa, Hornet Queen etc. I've cut Caryatid completely and gone with a playset of both Fleecemane Lion and Deathdealer which puts my opponent under pressure right from the start. Both cards are all upside and can win the game on their own, something that Caryatid can't do. Since my only 4 drops are Sorin and Rhino I don't even need the Caryatids anyway.
Still a lot of testing to be done but I'm going to stick with my list. It suites my play style a lot more. Interesting thing to note though is that basically every Abzan list from the recent standard tourneys have included Caryatid.
If you aren't trying to turn 3 your 4 drops, what beater 3 drops do you run.
Deathdealer, Lion, Herald of Torment and Siege Rhino along with a playset of Sorin who makes every creature that much better and also turns Courser into a threat.
Hmm, i don't see herald in your recent list you posted. My bad. I would still run brimaz if you can :D, though mana gets tough.
I've been working with heir of the wilds, and he's great! The fact that he doesn't trade with elvish mystics, voyaging satyrs, rabblemaster tokens, and other 1/x's and being able to attack into a caryatid and courser is awesome. This means that against g/x ramp decks they have to put a semi-relevant creature infront of it to trade. That makes him a great attacker, since who wants to trade with him? It also makes him a good blocker, because, again, who wants to trade with him?
He's also easy to cast.
I love this manabase, the only change I made is a temple of silence over a plains. I've goldfished this quite a few times, and I've rarely had to throw back.
I might just play bile blight over the drowns in the board, since it's sometimes awkward playing drown with heir and deathdealer, it's also possibly better than abzan charm against the jeskai deck.
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I called Heir being a huge sleeper just off feel, nice to see results from someone with time to test.
Question, how big a problem is Hornet Queen? We have FML who can be indestructible and Rakshasa regens....past that we only have Bile Blight to efficiently fight it right? My meta has two playing slightly different versions of G devotion so I really need to be prepared for Hornets. Even as a one of with Chord they get it at least half the time it seems. I say this knowing theres Drown in Sorrow, but that's not really a matchup you can board that in and stare down fatties. Plus it seems solid potentially as a sb threat for mirror, unless I'm overrating it.
That's not a bad idea, to be quite honest. Wipe their tokens and threaten future Queens if you have a spare Courser in your hand, not to mention you still have a 4/6 after all that. I'll have to try that.
1. Mardu Tokens 2-1. Lost game 1 stuck on 3 lands and a Courser. Sided Drown, Ram, Blight, sided out Thoughtseize, Elspeth, Banishing Light, and 1 Deathdealer. Ran him over games 2 and 3.
2. W/r Heroic 2-0. Game 1 was tight, finally won with a sorin, roc, and friend. Game 2 was owned by blight, ram, and drown.
3. WUBR Good Stuff 1-2. I have no idea what was going on here. This deck was genius tech. Lost to a combination of rabblemasters, butchers, deflecting palm, and burn spells.
4. Mirror 2-0. His version was -Cats, -sorin, -roc, +Utter End, +Garruk, +other stuff I didn't see. I sided out Deathdealers & Blight, sided in despise, thoughtseize, and hero's downfall. Was able to overrun him before he could stabilize. The more aggressive deck is going to win in the mirror because we're running the same removal. he did side in Empty the Pits, which I thought was a pretty genius way to break the mirror.
I sided out the Deathdealers in each matchup. I am looking to replace them in the main with the 2 Anafenza, the Foremost, and put 2 Erase into the board. Replacing Tormod's Crypt with Cranial Archive.
I called Heir being a huge sleeper just off feel, nice to see results from someone with time to test.
Question, how big a problem is Hornet Queen? We have FML who can be indestructible and Rakshasa regens....past that we only have Bile Blight to efficiently fight it right? My meta has two playing slightly different versions of G devotion so I really need to be prepared for Hornets. Even as a one of with Chord they get it at least half the time it seems. I say this knowing theres Drown in Sorrow, but that's not really a matchup you can board that in and stare down fatties. Plus it seems solid potentially as a sb threat for mirror, unless I'm overrating it.
Hushwing Gryff in the board against G/x devotion decks is pretty tech.
What do you guys think about Thoughtseize in the main board? Sure it answers everything but is almost a dead draw in the mid-late game, having almost all black mana sources ETBT, I'm not sure it belongs in the main board.
I called Heir being a huge sleeper just off feel, nice to see results from someone with time to test.
Question, how big a problem is Hornet Queen? We have FML who can be indestructible and Rakshasa regens....past that we only have Bile Blight to efficiently fight it right? My meta has two playing slightly different versions of G devotion so I really need to be prepared for Hornets. Even as a one of with Chord they get it at least half the time it seems. I say this knowing theres Drown in Sorrow, but that's not really a matchup you can board that in and stare down fatties. Plus it seems solid potentially as a sb threat for mirror, unless I'm overrating it.
It's definitely a problem if it lands, we do have a lot of discard effects though, and anafenza for the reanimator decks. I like bile blight more than drown against g/x decks because at the very least, it's a combat trick. It is worth noting that bow of nylea can shoot down the hornets although it's too slow to rely on just that, I board it against them anyways to break through their fatties.
What do you guys think about Thoughtseize in the main board? Sure it answers everything but is almost a dead draw in the mid-late game, having almost all black mana sources ETBT, I'm not sure it belongs in the main board.
I like thoughtseize in the main, but just as a 3-of with the 4th in the board. It's not meant as a turn 1 play but more like a turn 3 or so play to fill out your curve. Most important cards cost 3 or more anyway.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Additionally, I have 2 Sylvan Caryatids for more fixing and some ramping, which is relevant for the board. Except for the turn two Bile Blight, I seldomly have problems casting my spells. Sandsteppe Citadel especially takes care of that. I would never play fewer than 4. Also, I take very little damage from my landbase and I like to keep it that way. I also like the mix of CIPT and untapped lands, and it usually allows starting the game on turn two, which is very important.
It is more on the aggressive side of Abzan with Fleecemane Lions and Rakshasa Deathdealers punching faces early, while still being very relevant in the late game. Turn three brings Anafenza, the Foremost, Herald of Torment and Courser of Kruphix. Anafenza is there to beat, pump and randomly hose certain matchups (Sultai, anything with Bloodsoaked Champion or death triggers). Herald gives me an edge against G/x, breakes board stalls in the mirror and helps against other flyers. Courser is just good stuff, it plays well with the fetches and improves top decks. Life gain is also relevant. Turn four is nothing new, either Siege Rhino or Sorin, Solemn Visitor, sometimes even Wingmate Roc makes an appearance here.
I have Courser, Rhino, Sorin and Roc to gain life, and I feel confident that the MB Bile Blight could be replaced with an Ulcerate. There are a lot of targets running around atm and not having to waste a full turn to get rid of them can lead to some nice tempo plays. If it costs too much life, I might try a 3/1 split for Thoughtseize/Despise to make up for that.
1. Mardu Tokens 2-1. Lost game 1 stuck on 3 lands and a Courser. Sided Drown, Ram, Blight, sided out Thoughtseize, Elspeth, Banishing Light, and 1 Deathdealer. Ran him over games 2 and 3.
2. W/r Heroic 2-0. Game 1 was tight, finally won with a sorin, roc, and friend. Game 2 was owned by blight, ram, and drown.
3. WUBR Good Stuff 1-2. I have no idea what was going on here. This deck was genius tech. Lost to a combination of rabblemasters, butchers, deflecting palm, and burn spells.
4. Mirror 2-0. His version was -Cats, -sorin, -roc, +Utter End, +Garruk, +other stuff I didn't see. I sided out Deathdealers & Blight, sided in despise, thoughtseize, and hero's downfall. Was able to overrun him before he could stabilize. The more aggressive deck is going to win in the mirror because we're running the same removal. he did side in Empty the Pits, which I thought was a pretty genius way to break the mirror.
I sided out the Deathdealers in each matchup. I am looking to replace them in the main with the 2 Anafenza, the Foremost, and put 2 Erase into the board. Replacing Tormod's Crypt with Cranial Archive.
Nice report!
I am interested in your proposed cutting of the Deathdealers. You said that you felt that you wanted to be more aggressive in certain matches, but I have felt that the Deathdealer is aggressive. It trades early with a guy from an aggro deck, it can attack into Caryatids and Coursers and then when they don't block you can just use the mana for something else, and it regenerates -- very important in the mid and late game against most midrange and ramp decks and also against Hornet Queen if it starts becoming more of a problem. Until your report I could not imagine siding him out against any deck, and I would appreciate your reasoning, as I am now running 2.
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Won 13-1. lol. doesn't mean much, but it was impressive.
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4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Siege Rhino
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Genesis Hydra
2 Kheru Bloodsucker
1 Polukranos, World Eater
Enchantment/God
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Banishing Light
1 Athreos, God of Passage
1 Purophoros, God of the Forge
2 Abzan Ascendancy
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Spells
2 End Hostilities
3 Utter End
1 Abzan Charm
Land
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Mana Confluence
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Temple of Plenty
4 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
I'll give you some quick reasoning behind some cards.
End Hostilities i know it looks like it hurts this deck but it doesn't, and with a strong creature showing now i seems good
Abzan Ascendancy Great way to give everyone a boost and with End Hostilities & Elspeth, Sun's Champion board wipes i'm the only one with creatures.
Kheru Bloodsucker Again great with End Hostilities & Elspeth, Sun's Champion board wipes or even some combat tricks.
Athreos, God of Passage Again great with End Hostilities & Elspeth, Sun's Champion & Kheru Bloodsucker
Banishing Light You maybe asking why 1 and not another Utter End, the Genesis Hydra can grab a Utter End but it can grab Banishing Light
Purophoros, God of the Forge So I've been playing with this spot and he is a curious addition. Think about this Siege Rhino enters they take 5. Board wipe with Abzan Ascendancy in play, probably game. Elspeth, Sun's Champion +1 take 6. I know i only have 6 source of red but the Genesis Hydra can bring him in as well.
I think everything else is very self explanatory. I'd love to heir others Thoughts Question Comments Critiques.
Thanks
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I play 4 Sylvan Caryatid for many reasons, but the one you didn't mention is that it also acts as color fixing in a 3-color deck that has mana issues. As you mentioned, it also is an early blocker. Sure Nyx-Fleece Ram gives us game against Mono Red and Sligh, but that's it, so I think it's better as a sideboard card.
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Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears^^ this
Melira Pod - Modern
2 Fleecemane Lion
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Siege Rhino
1 Wingmate Roc
1 Hornet Queen
4 Sylvan Caryatid
Instants/Sorceries (15)
3 Abzan Charm
2 Bile Blight
2 Hero's Downfal
1 Silence the Believers
2 Utter End
2 Read the Bones
3 Thoughtseize
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Lands (24)
4 Forest
3 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Scourred Barrens
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mana Confluence
1 Windswept Heath
2 Whip of Erebos
1 Utter End
1 Thoughtseize
1 Nyx-fleece Ram
1 Dead Drop
2 Despise
3 Drown in Sorrow
1 Duneblast
2 Hushwing Gryff
A few things about the list: I had to make some adjustments as I couldn't get ahold of all the cards I wanted. The hornet queen was in there in place of an extra Wingmate Roc, although the one time I played it, it did a bunch of work, so I think I'll keep one in the sideboard. I couldn't find a playset of Windswept Heath, so that's definitely a change I'll be making. Playing that in conjunction with Courser is fantastic. The sideboard is a total mess though. Bile blight and Drown in Sorrow are there for tokens/aggro decks (which I didn't play at all last night). Nyx-Fleece Ram on paper should be good, but I haven't played any aggro yet, so I'm leaving it in until I can properly test it. Despise was great against RG monsters and G ramp style decks. Dead drop was just sort of thrown in there as a test, but I never brought it in, so it's likely getting cut. Duneblast I didn't see, but the idea behind it is against other midrange decks or the green ramp decks. A great way to break board stalls.
The games:
Round 1: Some sort of bant midrange ish deck W 2-1
Not sure what his deck really was going for. It was a younger kid so seemed like he just jammed stuff he liked in there, creatures, removal, walkers, etc. I won game one really quickly so game 2 I kept a questionable hand as I wasn't totally sure what I would need and it came back to bite me.
Round 2: Temur Monsters L 1-2
I think I was well suited for this match up, except in game 2 I hit a lot of removal and little action, and when I thoughteized him I saw 2 Stubborn Denials and 2 Disdainful Strokes. Once he had his Polukranos out, I didn't have enough answers to overcome the counters. Game 3 was the only game all night that I got stuck on mana. Didn't see a black source all game. Definitely need to mulligan a bit more aggressively.
Round 3: Mardu midrange W 2-1
This one wasn't too bad. His deck revolved around recurring creatures (Tymaret, Blood soaked champion) and sacking them to butcher or tymaret himself and then also using dictate of erebos and athreos for some additional nugs. Having enough removal that exiles really just shut down his plan.
Round 4: RG Monsters W 2-1
Fairly standard monsters build. Stormbreath is something this deck definitely needs to watch out for. I watched him swing at my a lot while staring at Abzan Charms and Utter Ends. After losing the second game, I just held on to downfalls and silence the believers to answer it.
I'm pretty happy with my list, and I took steps to not take too much damage from my mana base. I think taking that much damage from lands is asking a little too much and I don't think it's entirely required. The sideboard is the biggest issue for me right now. Until the metagame settles, I figure it will be in constant flux, but I really don't know what sort of answers I need that aren't already covered in the main deck.
Edit: I forgot to mention Elspeth. While a solid card, the times I cast her seemed to be in 'win more' situations. She hasn't really pulled me back from a deficit, and the only time I tapped out to play her was on a clear board. Not sure If I'll keep her in future inclusions. Might be SB tech against the mirror to battle opposing Els.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
I also feel like its the worst card in the deck. I'm going to start testing without them just to see I they actually matter. My mana base seems perfect without it and there are just so many other cards I could be running in that slot.
As it's been said, against aggro having a blocker early is essential, and the mana fixing is pretty crucial as well. Personally, since I'm playing so many tap lands, having a small ramp to get back on curve is pretty nice as well. That being said, I have sided 1-2 out in some games, so I think testing some other options wouldn't be a bad idea.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Still a lot of testing to be done but I'm going to stick with my list. It suites my play style a lot more. Interesting thing to note though is that basically every Abzan list from the recent standard tourneys have included Caryatid.
If you aren't trying to turn 3 your 4 drops, what beater 3 drops do you run.
Edit: looking at your post history you are running coursers and a couple afenza's. Do you really want coursers in a beater deck? I would think brimaz (if that mana works) would be a better alternative...or that 3/3 Herald of Torment or that 5/5 master of the feast flyer. Make a threat they helps with the beat downs (as people have mentioned, Caryatids are solid blockers, and a courser isn't getting through it without Sorin I guess, which you happen to be running as well...) I just think the brimaz, sorin interaction is godly.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Deathdealer, Lion, Herald of Torment and Siege Rhino along with a playset of Sorin who makes every creature that much better and also turns Courser into a threat.
Good luck mang!
Hmm, i don't see herald in your recent list you posted. My bad. I would still run brimaz if you can :D, though mana gets tough.
Rakshasa Deathdealer x4
Courser of Kruphix x4
Anafenza the Foremost x2
Siege Rhino x4
Hornet Queen x2
Abzan Charm x4
Banishing Light x2
Murderous Cut x2
Utter End x2
Feat of Resistance x2
Ajani Mentor of Heros x2
Sorin Solemn Visitor x2
What are you thoughts on this deck. Played last night went 4 and 1 at a local shop. I did not include mana, as it needs work.
I've been working with heir of the wilds, and he's great! The fact that he doesn't trade with elvish mystics, voyaging satyrs, rabblemaster tokens, and other 1/x's and being able to attack into a caryatid and courser is awesome. This means that against g/x ramp decks they have to put a semi-relevant creature infront of it to trade. That makes him a great attacker, since who wants to trade with him? It also makes him a good blocker, because, again, who wants to trade with him?
He's also easy to cast.
Onto the manabase.
I love this manabase, the only change I made is a temple of silence over a plains. I've goldfished this quite a few times, and I've rarely had to throw back.
So my deck looks like this so far:
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
4x Windswept Hearth
4x Llanowar Wastes
2x Plains
2x Temple of Malady
3x Temple of Silence
2x Forest
2x Caves of Koilos
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures:21
4 fleecemane lion
4 rakshasa deathdealer
3 heir of the wilds
3 herald of torment
4 siege rhino
3 wingmate roc
3 sorin, solemn visitor
Spells: 11
3 thoughtseize
4 hero's downfall
3 abzan charm
1 murderous cut
3 drown in sorrow
2 bow of nylea
2 reclamation sage
1 thoughtseize
2 end hostilities
2 anafenza, the foremost
3 brain maggot
I might just play bile blight over the drowns in the board, since it's sometimes awkward playing drown with heir and deathdealer, it's also possibly better than abzan charm against the jeskai deck.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Question, how big a problem is Hornet Queen? We have FML who can be indestructible and Rakshasa regens....past that we only have Bile Blight to efficiently fight it right? My meta has two playing slightly different versions of G devotion so I really need to be prepared for Hornets. Even as a one of with Chord they get it at least half the time it seems. I say this knowing theres Drown in Sorrow, but that's not really a matchup you can board that in and stare down fatties. Plus it seems solid potentially as a sb threat for mirror, unless I'm overrating it.
Peak rating 1832
Brain Freeze is the coolest card ever printed.
That's not a bad idea, to be quite honest. Wipe their tokens and threaten future Queens if you have a spare Courser in your hand, not to mention you still have a 4/6 after all that. I'll have to try that.
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 windswept heath
3 temple of malady
2 temple of silence
1 temple of plenty
2 caves of koilos
2 llanowar wastes
3 sandsteppe citadel
2 mana confluence
2 forest
2 plains
creatures 20
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
2 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 fleecemane lion
2 wingmate roc
1 banishing light
instants 8
3 abzan charm
3 hero's downfall
2 bile blight
planeswalkers 4
2 elspeth, sun's champion
2 sorin, solemn visitor
sorceries 3
3 thoughtseize
3 drown in sorrow
2 nyx-fleece ram
2 bile blight
2 despise
2 anafenza, the foremost
1 hero's downfall
1 thoughtseize
1 utter end
1 tormod's crypt
That's what I ran.
1. Mardu Tokens 2-1. Lost game 1 stuck on 3 lands and a Courser. Sided Drown, Ram, Blight, sided out Thoughtseize, Elspeth, Banishing Light, and 1 Deathdealer. Ran him over games 2 and 3.
2. W/r Heroic 2-0. Game 1 was tight, finally won with a sorin, roc, and friend. Game 2 was owned by blight, ram, and drown.
3. WUBR Good Stuff 1-2. I have no idea what was going on here. This deck was genius tech. Lost to a combination of rabblemasters, butchers, deflecting palm, and burn spells.
4. Mirror 2-0. His version was -Cats, -sorin, -roc, +Utter End, +Garruk, +other stuff I didn't see. I sided out Deathdealers & Blight, sided in despise, thoughtseize, and hero's downfall. Was able to overrun him before he could stabilize. The more aggressive deck is going to win in the mirror because we're running the same removal. he did side in Empty the Pits, which I thought was a pretty genius way to break the mirror.
I sided out the Deathdealers in each matchup. I am looking to replace them in the main with the 2 Anafenza, the Foremost, and put 2 Erase into the board. Replacing Tormod's Crypt with Cranial Archive.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
Hushwing Gryff in the board against G/x devotion decks is pretty tech.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
It's definitely a problem if it lands, we do have a lot of discard effects though, and anafenza for the reanimator decks. I like bile blight more than drown against g/x decks because at the very least, it's a combat trick. It is worth noting that bow of nylea can shoot down the hornets although it's too slow to rely on just that, I board it against them anyways to break through their fatties.
I like thoughtseize in the main, but just as a 3-of with the 4th in the board. It's not meant as a turn 1 play but more like a turn 3 or so play to fill out your curve. Most important cards cost 3 or more anyway.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
2x Caves of Koilos
2x Forest
4x Llanowar Wastes
2x Plains
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
2x Temple of Malady
2x Temple of Silence
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Windswept Heath
Creatures (21)
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
3x Courser of Kruphix
4x Fleecemane Lion
2x Herald of Torment
3x Rakshasa Deathdealer
4x Siege Rhino
2x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Wingmate Roc
3x Abzan Charm
1x Bile Blight
4x Hero's Downfall
1x Murderous Cut
4x Thoughtseize
Planeswalkers (2)
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
1x Back to Nature
1x Bile Blight
1x Doomwake Giant
3x Drown in Sorrow
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x End Hostilities
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Silence the Believers
1x Utter End
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Ulcerate
The landbase is
6x Pain
4x Fetch
8x Tapped
4x Basic
2x Urborg
or
16 B
16 G
14 W
Additionally, I have 2 Sylvan Caryatids for more fixing and some ramping, which is relevant for the board. Except for the turn two Bile Blight, I seldomly have problems casting my spells. Sandsteppe Citadel especially takes care of that. I would never play fewer than 4. Also, I take very little damage from my landbase and I like to keep it that way. I also like the mix of CIPT and untapped lands, and it usually allows starting the game on turn two, which is very important.
It is more on the aggressive side of Abzan with Fleecemane Lions and Rakshasa Deathdealers punching faces early, while still being very relevant in the late game. Turn three brings Anafenza, the Foremost, Herald of Torment and Courser of Kruphix. Anafenza is there to beat, pump and randomly hose certain matchups (Sultai, anything with Bloodsoaked Champion or death triggers). Herald gives me an edge against G/x, breakes board stalls in the mirror and helps against other flyers. Courser is just good stuff, it plays well with the fetches and improves top decks. Life gain is also relevant. Turn four is nothing new, either Siege Rhino or Sorin, Solemn Visitor, sometimes even Wingmate Roc makes an appearance here.
I have Courser, Rhino, Sorin and Roc to gain life, and I feel confident that the MB Bile Blight could be replaced with an Ulcerate. There are a lot of targets running around atm and not having to waste a full turn to get rid of them can lead to some nice tempo plays. If it costs too much life, I might try a 3/1 split for Thoughtseize/Despise to make up for that.
What do you think?
My Modern Decks:
BGWAbzan MidrangeWGB
UWRJeskai NahiriRWU
BRUGrixis ControlURB
Nice report!
I am interested in your proposed cutting of the Deathdealers. You said that you felt that you wanted to be more aggressive in certain matches, but I have felt that the Deathdealer is aggressive. It trades early with a guy from an aggro deck, it can attack into Caryatids and Coursers and then when they don't block you can just use the mana for something else, and it regenerates -- very important in the mid and late game against most midrange and ramp decks and also against Hornet Queen if it starts becoming more of a problem. Until your report I could not imagine siding him out against any deck, and I would appreciate your reasoning, as I am now running 2.