Because the type of endgame potential those two cards bring is very different. Rakshasa Deathdealer is a backbreaking threat, a creature that forces a block every time and will kill whatever blocks it, with absurd resiliency besides. Den Protector buys back other means of gaining an advantage over an opponent -- maybe it buys back a threat, maybe it buys back a Dromoka's Command -- and then is an okay, but not especially scary, threat on its own. I find that not having access to Deathdealer and instead playing 3 Protector leads to a lot of awkward turn 2s where you play a face-up Den Protector that's not going to be able to swing past anything without additional help. Protector is acceptable... but barely so... on turn 2. Deathdealer at least threatens to be a 4/4 when it attacks on turn 3, and forces opponents to respect that threat.
Basically, I felt like 3 Den Protector was incorrect; that consequently, the full playset that some people ran was almost certainly wrong; and that Deathdealer brings another angle of attack to the deck, which I value pretty highly. So I went down to 2 Protectors and added 2 Deathdealers. You don't really want to find multiples of Deathdealer ever, but finding one is almost never bad.
This is only for use in a meta like mine that is heavy on Hangarbacks, Abzan, and control with Red and Artifacts just about gone. Crux is back since the control lists are running the pre-Origins dragon lists.
Nice list! As I showed some pages ago with my list, I was very happy with full 4 Raptors and 3 Dromoka's Command in SB. Try it if you can!
Yeah, I feel like the Dens in the main and the deathmists in the SB make it really hard for your to lose against Control. They are also really good blockers against RDWs as well. I also don't want to invest in lions when they are rotating out either.
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Decks I play:
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
So this article hails abzan aggro as being the best deck in standard. I have abzan aggro, but it's an old outdated list, and I haven't played in a while. However, this kinda makes me wanna try again. Could someone catch me up on the archetype? Especially what to sb in certain matchups? Thanks.
List for tomorrow. I'm channeling Andrew Boswell for this one big time -- I love how sleek the deck is, and I think getting underneath all the grindy Hangarback-heavy mirrors is where I want to be. Hangarback is a great topdeck late but pretty miserable on turn 2 if you're trying to be the aggressor. Den Protector isn't far behind in that respect, so both of them got cut down to 2. This deck appreciates being able to grind people out with card advantage but really ain't about that life, see. I added two Deathdealers in so I'd have 10 respectable threats on turn 2 to combo with Anafenza turn 3.
Herald is arguably more explosive than Wingmate Roc, and can be plausibly run with 24 lands, so I went up to 3 of him and put the Roc in the board. He still comes in for several matchups, especially since postboard games tend to be longer, increasing the odds of hitting a 5th land drop.
One Sorin and four Rhinos round out the top end preboard. Tasigur is the only other big drop (aside from a 2nd Sorin I guess), and he's often not that big anyway between fetches and the 10 spells I have. Which, btw, Boswell was right, we don't want 3-drop kill spells in this deck imo. Abzan Charm is great and very defensible, but I want to be playing a 3-drop, or Warden + 2-drop, or Warden + kill spell, on t3. Or I just want the freedom to play my first tapland t3 to maximize Warden's value -- Warden into two-drop into pump Warden, swing 5-6, tapland is a solid sequence.
The two Arashin Cleric in the sideboard are really out of place, but I needed 2 spots dedicated to beating mono-red, and I figure a creature that sometimes basically becomes Courser of Kruphix (after a +1/+1 counter from somewhere, it's got Courser's stats and earned you 3 life) for 2 mana is reasonable, even if it's atrocious for actually attacking. Since it only comes in for games where we're forced to play defense, a defensively-minded creature is acceptable to me.
I think the rest is pretty straightforward in the board -- Hunt the Hunter is amazing in the Abzan mirror and against Green Devotion/stompy decks, 4 Thoughtseize give me extra powerful plays against Devotion and control, and the 4th copies of Stance and Price are hella worth in certain matchups.
EDIT: Possible this goes to 25 lands and cuts the 4th Warden. I can't find my 4th. :/ And I had some land drop issues at 24. Hard to say whether that's just small sample size or endemic of a bigger issue. I would think that 24 is sufficient, but the deck's multitude of mana sinks makes it very low-risk to go up to 25. Boswell's list used 24, but literally everyone else uses 25 or 26, and mine goes a bit bigger than his anyway (esp. with sideboarded Roc).
Very new to Abzan, borrowed the cards from a friend to have something to play until rotation. My question is, would you still play courser now that hangarback is in the deck?
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Trying to make crappy pet cards work since 2002.
I'm usually typing quickly at work or on my phone so I appolize from the crummy grammar
Hangarback Walker seems to be appearing in both the aggro and control versions of Abzan. Courser of Kruphix appears in the control version but is absent from all the aggro builds I've seen.
Double PPTQ coming up this weekend, so I am making the jump over to the aggro version, which I feel is generally the better one to be one right now. I'm trying to get by on 24 lands by topping out at 4-cmc in the maindeck. I have Elspeth and Tragic Arrogance in the sideboard but I can also bring in a 25th land with those.
Very new to Abzan, borrowed the cards from a friend to have something to play until rotation. My question is, would you still play courser now that hangarback is in the deck?
I would. Courses is still a good sized roadblock against red decks. I currently play them as a 3 of.
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Decks I play:
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
Tch: I think if you're going to play 25 lands in your 75, they should probably all be in your 60. Its generally better to board out a land than to board in a land -- postboard games are slower so you have more breathing room if you miss a land drop, and you drawing one fewer land in a format where one more spell often swings the game is a crucial improvement.
I keep wavering on 24 vs 25 lands myself. Tempted to cut something for the 25th land but idk what...
Here is my current list for the PPTQ this weekend. Listening to Pat Chapins podcast he said he would play abzan aggro this weekend but go bigger. So I tried to combine the elements of the aggro and control build. The land base def needs touching up because my locals doesn't have Temples of Malady so I'm going to try and trade for them/buy them at the shop hosting the event the morning of. I'd love any constructive help any of you can give. So far I'm 2-1 vs abzan control, 2-0 vs GR devotion, 4-0 vs red.
I probably don't need 4x Rattleclaw Mystic so that can probably be 2x Mystic and 2x 3-4 drop. Or even Fleecemane Lion, come to think of it. Or something like a Soul of Innistrad.
I think Cutting Den Protector severely undermines your mirror matchup. Its one of the best cards in the deck and I have found playing anything less than 3 to be suboptimal in alot of matchups.
This is the list that I am currently running and have been absolutely loving how well it plays and how smooth it flows. I like boarding into the Herald's and it has been one of my favorite cards as of late.
Nah, forget Deathdealer. Trying to find a place for that feels like trying to find a place for Reaper of the Wilds in midrange. It's a good card but it's just outclassed right now. When Fleecemane is gone, there's a good chance Deathdealer will see a return in this deck.
I went 4-0 tonight with the list I posted earlier, -1 Deathdealer +1 Mana Confluence. I went 2-1 every round, so it wasn't as dominating as Friday, but I'm now 9-0 in sanctioned games of Magic (and 11-5 overall :bicycle:) with this deck.
Arashin Cleric was clutch against mono-red, but it still feels wrong. I thought about Surge of Righteousness tonight -- the 2 life is essentially worth a card and it trades 1-for-1 with any creature (instead of Cleric, whose 3 life is definitely worth a card, but who no longer eats tokens, which is why it was playable to begin with). It also has applications outside of burn if I feel like I need it for that. Cleric has the advantage of tying up their mana on subsequent turns by forcing a Strike, but it allows them to get value out of their initial investment in the creature it'd be blocking, whereas Surge won't.
I feel like there's probably an objectively correct answer to the implicit question up there of whether or not it's better to blank an opponent's t1/t2 play than to force a less-than-optimal t2/t3 play, but I don't know what it is and I don't care to think it out, so instead I'm just gonna test Surge. k? k
Round 1: Temur Aggro (2-1)
Game 1 he kept Heir of the Wilds x2, Stubborn Denial x2, Shivan Reef, Yavimaya Coast, and something else, and drew nothing but 3+ drops. I almost had a sick play where I was swinging with Lion and Anafenza, and I was gonna make Lion indestructible with Stance and then fight the Heir blocking Annie with Dromoka's Command, but he had the Stubborn Denial to tap me too low after I cast Stance, so I had to lose Annie and get rid of both Heirs that way. I let Sorin get countered by the second Denial because I'm dumb and didn't realize it only hits instants or sorceries... didn't matter.
Game 2 I kept Warden, Hunt the Hunter, 5 lands on the draw because I forgot Frost Walker was a card. And Lightning Strike too apparently. I realized a turn too late that this was a snap mull and got crushed for it.
Game 3 he mulled to five on the play and kept a hand with no green mana, then proceeded to draw straight green spells. Beats.
Round 2: GR Devotion (2-1)
Game 1 I kept him off his mana dorks and Warden went the distance solo. Highlight of the game was my opponent forgetting that Warden's 2nd level gives trample, and thus chumped a 5/5 Warden (two Commands lol) to protect his 3-loyalty Xenagos with a 2/2 satyr. Oops. Warden became a 10/10 trample lifelink bro, it was sweet.
Game 2 I had a fantastic hand and all but literally ***** myself, my pants, the chair and the match for no reason. I went tapland, tapland plus Warden and then on turn 3 Thoughtseized for this beautiful sequence:
>See Nissa, Worldwaker and Polukranos, the mana to play Polukranos next turn, but not the mana to play Nissa next turn
>In hand is a Dromoka's Command and a Hunt the Hunter
>I can pump Warden this turn, fight his dork with Hunt the Hunter to keep him off of Nissa for a turn and force him to tap out for her, then keep the Dromoka's Command and work my way through Nissa just fine
>I have no kill spell for Polukranos
>Take Nissa instead of Polukranos
>Use Hunt the Hunter to trade Warden for Polukranos, then play a 1/1 Warden and Dromoka's Command to trade with Rattleclaw Mystic
As a friend of mine observing pointed out, literally every time I had a decision that wasn't an immediate no-brainer, I made the wrong one. Pretty easy to screw up a flawless hand against Devotion like that!
Game 3 was really intense, I kept him off his game for a while but he eventually got a Whisperwood out that I didn't answer. He hit me for 8 and put me down to 9, had me at lethal on the crackback if I attack. I have a 5/5 monstrous Lion and am topdecking, he's topdecking as well at 9 life. He fetches for a Mountain. As it would turn out, his next draw would have been Atarka...
If I hadn't topdecked Herald of Torment and swung for exact lethal. HYPE!
Round 3: Izzet Mill (2-1)
Games 1 and 3 I just Plan A'd him. Tutelage couldn't come down early enough to matter.
Game 2 he stalled me out as I played around Anger of the Gods excessively, managed to ult Jace because I had decided to just ignore Jace and beat him up (a decision I defend but clearly lost for having made it), and he eventually decked me a turn before I had lethal. If I'd been able to draw one more time I had it!
This matchup is still good for us and not terribly interesting.
Round 4: Red Burn (2-1)
Game 1 he was on the play. I had a less than stellar (but not bad) grip, he had a solid grip, and then I drew all 3 literally-unplayable Herald of Torment. Oops.
Game 2 I don't remember too well, but on turn 9 or so I had 17 life to his 16, so it was all good.
Game 3 was awesome, I was down 20 to 3 and won. Anafenza swung for 4 and instead of playing and flipping Den Protector to get back a Lion, I read his Magma Jet, saw he scried something to the top. He had no board and was topdecking, so I figured he was playing for the burnout win instead of creatures. (Yeah yeah not a hard read, whatever.) I played the morph facedown and left up mana for my Dromoka's Command. He topdecks Exquisite Firecraft, which deals 0 damage from Command. Den Protector flips up, I swing for 9, he topdecks another Firecraft, I have Command back. GG!
Some good stuff I did that round involved playing Warden and deliberately not pumping and holding up Price mana. Leaving up pump mana forces the Lightning Strike, so then you Price their t1 play and you go to your 3rd turn having taken no damage and traded 1-for-1 with 2 cards apiece. Not bad! Or on the draw, obviously it's less good, but you still ought to be thinking about that kinda thing.
Warden is an all-star and running less than four in this deck is objectively incorrect. Fight me about it, you won't.
Deathdealer was lousy when I did find it, but it's a necessary evil. You really want a 9th respectable threat and the mind games Deathdealer forces are nothing to be trifled with. It's your best creature against any deck that tries to grind you out and doesn't have Languish, it's one of your best creatures in the mirror since it's such a pain in the ass to kill, and it's absurdly powerful as the game goes along.
I like the 2/2 split of Protector and Walker. Think of it as 4 slots for grindy 2-drops, and then from there you're getting some buyback of key spells or a respectable threat that breaks the game when it pops at 3/3 or better. Den Protector trades with a lot of red creatures on turn 2, Hangarback Walker is two blockers and a shot at trading with Abbot (and a sure trade with Zerker).
3 Herald is awesome, just don't draw them all against red
Deathdealer is a fine Magic card, but Warden enables a lot of good lines of play that I think even Deathdealer doesn't. Just it being a one-drop and a potentially hasty 3/3 on 2 opens up so much for the deck -- the "pump bluff, play a creature" one is pretty obvious, but even against red, like I noted in my match against it tonight, holding up mana for a pump to force a bigger burn spell on Warden when you actually have a kill spell is really good.
You also get to play your third land tapped since you can curve out Warden -> beat -> pump if you don't have Anafenza. Just the little things like land sequencing that he opens up are spectacular, and no other creature in the deck does it.
-4 Anafenza, -1 Sorin, -2 Hangarback, -2 Den Protector
+3 Hunt the Hunter, +4 Thoughtseize, +1 Stance, +1 Price
Take out the slow 2-drops, the nonevasive 3-drop, and the not-Siege-Rhino 4-drop, and bring in the 1-mana pump and fight spell, Thoughtseize, and the 4th copies of the other maindeck kill spells. The game is all about sticking an early Warden/Lion/Deathdealer and murking all their dorks with fight, then killing the couple of bombs they do resolve with Stance/Price.
The more I play 4x Hangar in my build, the more i wanna drop it back to 2 in main. He can win a game, but usuaully is just an early blocker. I'd rather have a lion or a deathdealer.
The more I play 4x Hangar in my build, the more i wanna drop it back to 2 in main. He can win a game, but usuaully is just an early blocker. I'd rather have a lion or a deathdealer.
Seconded. Hangarback has its uses in the deck for sure but it's not that great offensively without Anafenza until the later game. Give me a 2-drop that actually just mauls people first all day please.
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Standard: GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern: RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy: BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
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Basically, I felt like 3 Den Protector was incorrect; that consequently, the full playset that some people ran was almost certainly wrong; and that Deathdealer brings another angle of attack to the deck, which I value pretty highly. So I went down to 2 Protectors and added 2 Deathdealers. You don't really want to find multiples of Deathdealer ever, but finding one is almost never bad.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
4 Den Protector
3 Hangarback Walker
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Siege Rhino
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
Planeswalkers
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Spells
1 Utter End
4 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
1 Crux of Fate
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Windswepth Heath
3 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Silence
2 Caves of Kolios
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Plains
3 Forest
3 Deathmist Raptor
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Ultimate Price
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Virulant Plague
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Liliana Vess
1 Crux of Fate
1 Utter End
This is only for use in a meta like mine that is heavy on Hangarbacks, Abzan, and control with Red and Artifacts just about gone. Crux is back since the control lists are running the pre-Origins dragon lists.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Yeah, I feel like the Dens in the main and the deathmists in the SB make it really hard for your to lose against Control. They are also really good blockers against RDWs as well. I also don't want to invest in lions when they are rotating out either.
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
So this article hails abzan aggro as being the best deck in standard. I have abzan aggro, but it's an old outdated list, and I haven't played in a while. However, this kinda makes me wanna try again. Could someone catch me up on the archetype? Especially what to sb in certain matchups? Thanks.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
Herald is arguably more explosive than Wingmate Roc, and can be plausibly run with 24 lands, so I went up to 3 of him and put the Roc in the board. He still comes in for several matchups, especially since postboard games tend to be longer, increasing the odds of hitting a 5th land drop.
One Sorin and four Rhinos round out the top end preboard. Tasigur is the only other big drop (aside from a 2nd Sorin I guess), and he's often not that big anyway between fetches and the 10 spells I have. Which, btw, Boswell was right, we don't want 3-drop kill spells in this deck imo. Abzan Charm is great and very defensible, but I want to be playing a 3-drop, or Warden + 2-drop, or Warden + kill spell, on t3. Or I just want the freedom to play my first tapland t3 to maximize Warden's value -- Warden into two-drop into pump Warden, swing 5-6, tapland is a solid sequence.
The two Arashin Cleric in the sideboard are really out of place, but I needed 2 spots dedicated to beating mono-red, and I figure a creature that sometimes basically becomes Courser of Kruphix (after a +1/+1 counter from somewhere, it's got Courser's stats and earned you 3 life) for 2 mana is reasonable, even if it's atrocious for actually attacking. Since it only comes in for games where we're forced to play defense, a defensively-minded creature is acceptable to me.
I think the rest is pretty straightforward in the board -- Hunt the Hunter is amazing in the Abzan mirror and against Green Devotion/stompy decks, 4 Thoughtseize give me extra powerful plays against Devotion and control, and the 4th copies of Stance and Price are hella worth in certain matchups.
4 Warden of the First Tree
4 Fleecemane Lion
2 Den Protector
2 Hangarback Walker
2 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Anafenza, the Foremost
3 Herald of Torment
4 Siege Rhino
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells (10)
4 Dromoka's Command
3 Ultimate Price
3 Valorous Stance
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Arashin Cleric
3 Hunt the Hunter
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Thoughtseize
1 Ultimate Price
1 Valorous Stance
2 Wingmate Roc
EDIT: Possible this goes to 25 lands and cuts the 4th Warden. I can't find my 4th. :/ And I had some land drop issues at 24. Hard to say whether that's just small sample size or endemic of a bigger issue. I would think that 24 is sufficient, but the deck's multitude of mana sinks makes it very low-risk to go up to 25. Boswell's list used 24, but literally everyone else uses 25 or 26, and mine goes a bit bigger than his anyway (esp. with sideboarded Roc).
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
I'm usually typing quickly at work or on my phone so I appolize from the crummy grammar
Control decks used to run 4 of it but now run less due to all the Dromoka's Command in the format.
I'd be wary of running 4x of Courser assuming your metagame is up to date.
2x Forest
4x Llanowar Wastes
1x Mana Confluence
2x Plains
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
2x Temple of Malady
1x Temple of Plenty
2x Temple of Silence
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Windswept Heath
4x Den Protector
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Hangarback Walker
4x Siege Rhino
2x Warden of the First Tree
4x Abzan Charm
1x Bile Blight
4x Dromoka's Command
2x Hero's Downfall
1x Ultimate Price
2x Arashin Cleric
1x Temple of Silence
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Hero's Downfall
1x Self-Inflicted Wound
4x Thoughtseize
2x Tragic Arrogance
1x Ultimate Price
I would. Courses is still a good sized roadblock against red decks. I currently play them as a 3 of.
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
I keep wavering on 24 vs 25 lands myself. Tempted to cut something for the 25th land but idk what...
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
2x Den Protector
3x Courser
3x Anafenza
4x Siege Rhino
1x Wingmate Roc
1x Tasgir
1x Nissa
4x Abzan Charm
2x Ultimate Price
2x Hero's Downfall
1x Bile Blight
1x muderous cut
1x Sorin
1x elspeth
4x sandsteppe citadel
4x Windswept Heath
3x Temple of silence
3x temple of plenty
2x Caves of Koilos
3x Llanowar Wastes
3x Forest
1x Plains
2x Jungle Hollow
2x Thoughtseize
1x Ajani Mentor
1x Wingmate Roc
1x Arishin Cleric
1x Back to Nature
1x Surge of rightousness
1x Utter End
1x elspeth
1x Bileblight
1x dromoka command
1x ultimate price
1x Valorous Stance
1x Languish
I'm usually typing quickly at work or on my phone so I appolize from the crummy grammar
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
3x Anafenza, the Foremost
2x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4x Siege Rhino
2x Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2x Whisperwood Elemental
3x Ashen Rider
2x Dragonlord Dromoka
4x See the Unwritten
2x Abzan Charm
Lands: (24)
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Windswept Heath
2x Caves of Koilos
4x Forest
2x Plains
1x Temple of Malady
3x Temple of Silence
4 Fleecemane Lion
3 Den Protector
4 Anafenza, the Foremost
3 Hangarback Walker
4 Siege Rhino
2 Wingmate Roc
Spells
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Thoughtseize
3 Dromoka's Command
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Forest
1 Plains
2 Mana Confluence
2 Caves of Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Silence
4 Windswept Heath
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Ultimate Price
3 Self-Inflicted Wound
3 Deathmist Raptor
2 Duress
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Utter End
Still figuring out how I can fit in Deathdealer.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
4 Anafenza,the Foremost
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Den Protector
4 Siege Rhino
2 Wingmate Roc
Planeswalkers: 2
1 Elspeth,Sun's Champion
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells: 10
3 Abzan Charm
3 Dromoka's Command
2 Ultimate Price
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Windswept Heath
3 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Plenty
3 Caves of Kolios
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Mana Confluence
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Unravel th Aether
1 Ultimate Price
1 Dromoka's Command
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Herald of Torment
2 Tragic Arrogance
4 Thoughtseize
Nah, forget Deathdealer. Trying to find a place for that feels like trying to find a place for Reaper of the Wilds in midrange. It's a good card but it's just outclassed right now. When Fleecemane is gone, there's a good chance Deathdealer will see a return in this deck.
Arashin Cleric was clutch against mono-red, but it still feels wrong. I thought about Surge of Righteousness tonight -- the 2 life is essentially worth a card and it trades 1-for-1 with any creature (instead of Cleric, whose 3 life is definitely worth a card, but who no longer eats tokens, which is why it was playable to begin with). It also has applications outside of burn if I feel like I need it for that. Cleric has the advantage of tying up their mana on subsequent turns by forcing a Strike, but it allows them to get value out of their initial investment in the creature it'd be blocking, whereas Surge won't.
I feel like there's probably an objectively correct answer to the implicit question up there of whether or not it's better to blank an opponent's t1/t2 play than to force a less-than-optimal t2/t3 play, but I don't know what it is and I don't care to think it out, so instead I'm just gonna test Surge. k? k
4 Warden of the First Tree
4 Fleecemane Lion
2 Den Protector
2 Hangarback Walker
1 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Anafenza, the Foremost
3 Herald of Torment
4 Siege Rhino
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells (10)
4 Dromoka's Command
3 Ultimate Price
3 Valorous Stance
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
3 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Mana Confluence
2 Arashin Cleric
3 Hunt the Hunter
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Thoughtseize
1 Ultimate Price
1 Valorous Stance
2 Wingmate Roc
Round 1: Temur Aggro (2-1)
Game 1 he kept Heir of the Wilds x2, Stubborn Denial x2, Shivan Reef, Yavimaya Coast, and something else, and drew nothing but 3+ drops. I almost had a sick play where I was swinging with Lion and Anafenza, and I was gonna make Lion indestructible with Stance and then fight the Heir blocking Annie with Dromoka's Command, but he had the Stubborn Denial to tap me too low after I cast Stance, so I had to lose Annie and get rid of both Heirs that way. I let Sorin get countered by the second Denial because I'm dumb and didn't realize it only hits instants or sorceries... didn't matter.
Game 2 I kept Warden, Hunt the Hunter, 5 lands on the draw because I forgot Frost Walker was a card. And Lightning Strike too apparently. I realized a turn too late that this was a snap mull and got crushed for it.
Game 3 he mulled to five on the play and kept a hand with no green mana, then proceeded to draw straight green spells. Beats.
Round 2: GR Devotion (2-1)
Game 1 I kept him off his mana dorks and Warden went the distance solo. Highlight of the game was my opponent forgetting that Warden's 2nd level gives trample, and thus chumped a 5/5 Warden (two Commands lol) to protect his 3-loyalty Xenagos with a 2/2 satyr. Oops. Warden became a 10/10 trample lifelink bro, it was sweet.
Game 2 I had a fantastic hand and all but literally ***** myself, my pants, the chair and the match for no reason. I went tapland, tapland plus Warden and then on turn 3 Thoughtseized for this beautiful sequence:
>See Nissa, Worldwaker and Polukranos, the mana to play Polukranos next turn, but not the mana to play Nissa next turn
>In hand is a Dromoka's Command and a Hunt the Hunter
>I can pump Warden this turn, fight his dork with Hunt the Hunter to keep him off of Nissa for a turn and force him to tap out for her, then keep the Dromoka's Command and work my way through Nissa just fine
>I have no kill spell for Polukranos
>Take Nissa instead of Polukranos
>Use Hunt the Hunter to trade Warden for Polukranos, then play a 1/1 Warden and Dromoka's Command to trade with Rattleclaw Mystic
As a friend of mine observing pointed out, literally every time I had a decision that wasn't an immediate no-brainer, I made the wrong one. Pretty easy to screw up a flawless hand against Devotion like that!
Game 3 was really intense, I kept him off his game for a while but he eventually got a Whisperwood out that I didn't answer. He hit me for 8 and put me down to 9, had me at lethal on the crackback if I attack. I have a 5/5 monstrous Lion and am topdecking, he's topdecking as well at 9 life. He fetches for a Mountain. As it would turn out, his next draw would have been Atarka...
If I hadn't topdecked Herald of Torment and swung for exact lethal. HYPE!
Round 3: Izzet Mill (2-1)
Games 1 and 3 I just Plan A'd him. Tutelage couldn't come down early enough to matter.
Game 2 he stalled me out as I played around Anger of the Gods excessively, managed to ult Jace because I had decided to just ignore Jace and beat him up (a decision I defend but clearly lost for having made it), and he eventually decked me a turn before I had lethal. If I'd been able to draw one more time I had it!
This matchup is still good for us and not terribly interesting.
Round 4: Red Burn (2-1)
Game 1 he was on the play. I had a less than stellar (but not bad) grip, he had a solid grip, and then I drew all 3 literally-unplayable Herald of Torment. Oops.
Game 2 I don't remember too well, but on turn 9 or so I had 17 life to his 16, so it was all good.
Game 3 was awesome, I was down 20 to 3 and won. Anafenza swung for 4 and instead of playing and flipping Den Protector to get back a Lion, I read his Magma Jet, saw he scried something to the top. He had no board and was topdecking, so I figured he was playing for the burnout win instead of creatures. (Yeah yeah not a hard read, whatever.) I played the morph facedown and left up mana for my Dromoka's Command. He topdecks Exquisite Firecraft, which deals 0 damage from Command. Den Protector flips up, I swing for 9, he topdecks another Firecraft, I have Command back. GG!
Some good stuff I did that round involved playing Warden and deliberately not pumping and holding up Price mana. Leaving up pump mana forces the Lightning Strike, so then you Price their t1 play and you go to your 3rd turn having taken no damage and traded 1-for-1 with 2 cards apiece. Not bad! Or on the draw, obviously it's less good, but you still ought to be thinking about that kinda thing.
Warden is an all-star and running less than four in this deck is objectively incorrect. Fight me about it, you won't.
Deathdealer was lousy when I did find it, but it's a necessary evil. You really want a 9th respectable threat and the mind games Deathdealer forces are nothing to be trifled with. It's your best creature against any deck that tries to grind you out and doesn't have Languish, it's one of your best creatures in the mirror since it's such a pain in the ass to kill, and it's absurdly powerful as the game goes along.
I like the 2/2 split of Protector and Walker. Think of it as 4 slots for grindy 2-drops, and then from there you're getting some buyback of key spells or a respectable threat that breaks the game when it pops at 3/3 or better. Den Protector trades with a lot of red creatures on turn 2, Hangarback Walker is two blockers and a shot at trading with Abbot (and a sure trade with Zerker).
3 Herald is awesome, just don't draw them all against red
That's all I got for now.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
Personally I don't know what it is but I can't pull the trigger back to Abzan Aggro.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
You also get to play your third land tapped since you can curve out Warden -> beat -> pump if you don't have Anafenza. Just the little things like land sequencing that he opens up are spectacular, and no other creature in the deck does it.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
+3 Hunt the Hunter, +4 Thoughtseize, +1 Stance, +1 Price
Take out the slow 2-drops, the nonevasive 3-drop, and the not-Siege-Rhino 4-drop, and bring in the 1-mana pump and fight spell, Thoughtseize, and the 4th copies of the other maindeck kill spells. The game is all about sticking an early Warden/Lion/Deathdealer and murking all their dorks with fight, then killing the couple of bombs they do resolve with Stance/Price.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
The more I play 4x Hangar in my build, the more i wanna drop it back to 2 in main. He can win a game, but usuaully is just an early blocker. I'd rather have a lion or a deathdealer.
Seconded. Hangarback has its uses in the deck for sure but it's not that great offensively without Anafenza until the later game. Give me a 2-drop that actually just mauls people first all day please.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB