Round 4: Vs. Abzan Midrange - WIN (2 - 1)
The classic value grind. He was a capable pilot with a more typical build of the deck. At one point he tried to Utter End my Reaper while I had mana up to regenerate it, which probably ended up in me winning that game. Reaper is beastly in this match-up anyway; it can be dealt with (like everything can), but it's ability to attack through Rhinos or block Sorin-boosted ones makes it very useful, and the scrying is super value as well. In the end I won off Ajani drawing me more threats than my opponent had.
For future reference you can not regenerate from exile. Exile does not destroy or send the creature to the graveyard. I assume since you are openly saying this you didn't do this knowingly.
[Quote ssjranulf]
Round 4: Vs. Abzan Midrange - WIN (2 - 1)
The classic value grind. He was a capable pilot with a more typical build of the deck. At one point he tried to Utter End my Reaper while I had mana up to regenerate it, which probably ended up in me winning that game. Reaper is beastly in this match-up anyway; it can be dealt with (like everything can), but it's ability to attack through Rhinos or block Sorin-boosted ones makes it very useful, and the scrying is super value as well. In the end I won off Ajani drawing me more threats than my opponent had.
im assuming that it's hexproof since reaper has no ability to regenerate.
I am actually playing mclaren's list, -1 elspeth(from the deck), -1 duneblast(back to the sb) for +2 end hostilities and replacing 2 read the bones for 2 drown in sorrow. i have 4 sweepers in my deck mb. the only thing im thinking is im very threat light. though its an unholy feeling getting 2 elspeths stuck in your hand while tokens jab you to death
[Quote ssjranulf]
Round 4: Vs. Abzan Midrange - WIN (2 - 1)
The classic value grind. He was a capable pilot with a more typical build of the deck. At one point he tried to Utter End my Reaper while I had mana up to regenerate it, which probably ended up in me winning that game. Reaper is beastly in this match-up anyway; it can be dealt with (like everything can), but it's ability to attack through Rhinos or block Sorin-boosted ones makes it very useful, and the scrying is super value as well. In the end I won off Ajani drawing me more threats than my opponent had.
Yeah sorry, I was Jet Lagged when I wrote this post and messed up the story. He tried I Utter End, I was surprised for a moment and said "Give it Hexproof in response." He was thrown off and read the card, and said "I thought it regenerated." Guys I shoulda proof read a little more carefully.
There is a PTQ coming up the Saturday after Christmas at my LGS. Tweaked my deck some, I'm not entirely sure what to expect though. Typically at this store its Mardu, Abzan and Jeskai. But i'm figuring to see more control here. This is what I came up with.
I feel like with this build I still hold advantages against Mardu and Jeskai, along with a good gameplan against the mirror, while also shoring up my control matchup.
As always, suggestions, thoughts, ideas always welcomed!
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I would add some number (maybe 2) Eidolon of Rhetoric to the sideboard, they're great in both the Jeskai Ascendancy and RDW matchup, both of which are pretty popular (at least in my meta). In which matchups are you bringing in Ajani?
My thoughts with Ajani (and Liliana) was to bring them in against the mirror or other midrange decks. He can make my dudes bigger or help me fish for another threat. Liliana is similar, hand disruption and I have won games by tutoring siege rhinos up to the top. He's definitely replaceable though, I just like the ability to cycle through the deck in the slower midrange match ups
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The store I play at has become over run with stormbreath dragon. I'm already running 4 Downfall and a single Murderous Cut.I don't know if it was just bad luck but I went 3-2-1 with the both loses and the tie coming at the hands of the Dragon. If I had removal he would have two dragons or it was an utter end or a charm ect. I was thinking of putting a couple Arbor Colossus in the board. Any other ideas?
The store I play at has become over run with stormbreath dragon. I'm already running 4 Downfall and a single Murderous Cut.I don't know if it was just bad luck but I went 3-2-1 with the both loses and the tie coming at the hands of the Dragon. If I had removal he would have two dragons or it was an utter end or a charm ect. I was thinking of putting a couple Arbor Colossus in the board. Any other ideas?
End Hostilities and Elspeth are two answers that have been used successfully since Stormbreath was printed. We have enough life gain that we'll probably survive the dragon's Hasty first attack.
Looking at it from a different angle, you have five instant-speed removal spells to answer Stormbreath. That's really not a bad situation, as long as you play with discipline and have other answers to the other problems those opponents present you with. So, are they pushing you to play your Downfalls on something else before they play Stormbreath? Could another spell - say Utter End or Bile Blight - be used in those situations to take the pressure off of Downfall and Cut?
I ran the Mclaren walker heavy list this weekend at an IQ as well as a GPT. The one change I made was including one Doomwake in the main, and an additional in the board. It was a house. G1 against the 3 jeskai matches were blown wide open by him. I definitely recommend it over a MD Drown in Sorrow. Both days I got to the final match with a win and in. Lost Saturday's, and drew Sunday's (I intentionally forfeit after time since both of us were out with a draw, at least that way one of us top 8's). I lost to a BUG control with Dictate of Karametra and Villainous Wealth (quite the combo). Didn't really have much chance there. I also lost to a Temur midrange. Hard to beat back to back dragon's in game 1. Those were the only two losses I had that felt honest. The other losses were purely land trouble (back to back getting stuck on 3, or having to mull to 5 or something). So I take those at variance as opposed to the strength of the deck.
I haven't had a chance to play against many whip decks with the new list. How has anyone who is running the walker list had trouble dealing with that? I have 1 Erase and 1 Erebos in the board, and 2 Utter Ends main. The doomwakes and drowns should get me through hornet queen or sidisi zombies, but I just feel like those decks will run me out of answers far too quickly.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
yes, stormbreath dragon has been historically successful against abzan. cut, thoughtseize, downfall would do. elspeth -3 also works.
though if the dragon pilot thoughtseizes your only black removal spell, well then, gg you.
I was thinking if I play mclaren's list for a GP, but i don't think it's good MB against jeskai tokens. I do however noticed that the 2 people that copied this list went on to win an scg open and another came up short of the scg invi. however i am not convinced that this is a good list going to a large meta as a GP, you are a dog to tokens game 1 because all your spot removals and singleton dune and drown. plus time limit might be an issue here, as the deck is low on win cons.
I was thinking of running BBDs list for an upcoming GP. it's what like immapawner has posted. Thought im thinking it has a bad MU to ub control or anything that plays vaults.
Thanks for all the feedback. yes I run thoughtsieze. I ran one herald but it never seemed to help. One game Elspeth died to Negate :(. Looking back I think I really need more bile blight. I only own one and the local game shop never has any. I hate buying uncommons on-line but broke down and ordered a playset last night. (I know I bought a set of Thoughsieze but balked at buying at spending $5 on a set of bile blights, go figure.) Bile blights will clear all the death touching insects and such that were clogging up the board and make them start reacting to me instead of the opposite. I was trying Heir of the Wilds (2 and 2) and really was underwhelmed with it so I think I'm going to take them out completely.
doesn't your LGS have walking shops (people with trade binders, they sell/trade cards to profit).
Heir of the Wilds is good against a green meta. but the meta does not fare well for heir. whats your list? you run elspeth and heir? topdown abzan?
I was thinking if I play mclaren's list for a GP, but i don't think it's good MB against jeskai tokens. I do however noticed that the 2 people that copied this list went on to win an scg open and another came up short of the scg invi. however i am not convinced that this is a good list going to a large meta as a GP, you are a dog to tokens game 1 because all your spot removals and singleton dune and drown. plus time limit might be an issue here, as the deck is low on win cons.
I was thinking of running BBDs list for an upcoming GP. it's what like immapawner has posted. Thought im thinking it has a bad MU to ub control or anything that plays vaults.
That's exactly why I wanted the doomwake in my main. it did tremendous work. I might even cut my third drown in the side as 2 giants and 2 drowns should get the job done most of the time.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
So, I've taken my list in a little different direction. The idea is to hedge and make it passable in every matchup game 1, then use the sideboard to shore up the specific match. To this end, there are quite a few 1-of tools in the deck and in the main board I don't run any duplicates of legendary creatures or planeswalkers to minimize dead draws as much as possible. Obviously, Liliana Vess is a fantastic draw in a build like this.
I constantly adjust the sideboard depending on what I expect to see. Currently, ways to deal with Jeskai Tokens are taking up a lot of the board which is OK because those same cards answer a lot of current red-based strategies and are passable against Sultai and Hornet Queen problems. Most of the other slots are primarily for the mirror. I think the deck is a little soft to UB and UW control, but I'm not seeing much of those anyway. By the way, even though it's awesome when it works, I hate trying to set up Duneblast; it's just rarely ever worth the wait. Usually you can just wipe the board with End Hostilities and go from there. If Sultai gets huge, I might reconsider the Duneblast opinion though.
How are Garruk and Erebos working for you? I used to run Garruk but most of the time it was blow up a planeswalker, he dies. For 7 mana seemed underwhelming, most of the time I would have rather had an Elspeth.
I'm playing this deck a bit and have been looking at some cards. I'm really liking the idea of low mana removal. Abzan Charm and Hero's Downfall are great and all, but I want something that can come down before turn 3. Bile Blight can be hard to cast with the double black cmc, so isn't reliable to use consistently. I've been looking at Last Breath and Ulcerate as possible options. Currently I am trying out Last Breath as it can hit Courser of Kruphix and it is better against aggressive decks without the life loss.
Chord of Calling is a card I am giving a couple of slots for to add more consistency to the deck. I've played a few matches with it in the build, but have yet to draw one yet. So I can't really say how well it's been working for me. Has anyone else given some card slots to this card?
Anafenza, the Foremost seems really solid against the reanimator decks going on right now. I've got one main and am thinking about adding a second to my sideboard.
How are Garruk and Erebos working for you? I used to run Garruk but most of the time it was blow up a planeswalker, he dies. For 7 mana seemed underwhelming, most of the time I would have rather had an Elspeth.
I don't know about garruk, but i'd rather have read the bones. if you have a lot of dorks go for it. i once emblemed garruk, sure it was nice. but sometimes this might get stuck in your hand.
Erebos - can't gain life hardly matters compared to board presence. youd rather have board sweepers or card drawers here.
I'm playing this deck a bit and have been looking at some cards. I'm really liking the idea of low mana removal. Abzan Charm and Hero's Downfall are great and all, but I want something that can come down before turn 3. Bile Blight can be hard to cast with the double black cmc, so isn't reliable to use consistently. I've been looking at Last Breath and Ulcerate as possible options. Currently I am trying out Last Breath as it can hit Courser of Kruphix and it is better against aggressive decks without the life loss.
Chord of Calling is a card I am giving a couple of slots for to add more consistency to the deck. I've played a few matches with it in the build, but have yet to draw one yet. So I can't really say how well it's been working for me. Has anyone else given some card slots to this card?
Anafenza, the Foremost seems really solid against the reanimator decks going on right now. I've got one main and am thinking about adding a second to my sideboard.
Bile blight is a necessary evil as with tokens rampant nowadays. you don't want mb last breath against a huge meta. it hardly hits anything other than a courser. youd rather have your rhinos attack, then when insect token blocks, go bile blight.
Chord is effective if you have dorks and a lot of mana. usually, in the mid game you are always tapped out casting your stuff, if you play the typical shell.
anafenza is badass. I have this thinking in the control abzan lists like mclaren's, ditch courser in favor of anafenza. though you're giving up card advantage, but against whip decks, you gain that card advantage back by them not being able to reanimate stuff.
I am running Bile Blight in the board, but am looking for other options for the main. Last Breath hits Rabblemaster, and against those decks I really want to play my removal on turn 2 if on the draw. I hear what you're saying though. LB hits everything in Rabble Red, which is it's primary appeal, but outside of that match Courser is the only real target. Some of the Jeskai tempo decks are also running Rabblemaster though, so it's got it's usefulness. Is Ulcerate better for hitting Mantis Rider and potentially taking out Siege Rhino with my own Courser/Fleecemain? It can't straight up kill Courser though and the life loss is relevant against Rabble Red, so I'm torn.
Rabble Red is definitely a thing in my meta. Curving out with a god hand is always nice, but there are games where they come out too fast. Having a couple of cards to help that match up that are also relevant against other cards (mainly Courser, as decks in my meta either have Courser or Rabblemaster, or both).
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For future reference you can not regenerate from exile. Exile does not destroy or send the creature to the graveyard. I assume since you are openly saying this you didn't do this knowingly.
im assuming that it's hexproof since reaper has no ability to regenerate.
Yeah sorry, I was Jet Lagged when I wrote this post and messed up the story. He tried I Utter End, I was surprised for a moment and said "Give it Hexproof in response." He was thrown off and read the card, and said "I thought it regenerated." Guys I shoulda proof read a little more carefully.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
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2x Caves of Koilos
3x Forest
3x Llanowar Wastes
3x Plains
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
2x Temple of Malady
2x Temple of Silence
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Windswept Heath
Planeswalker (3)
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Whip of Erebos
Creature (19)
4x Courser of Kruphix
2x Fleecemane Lion
2x Rakshasa Deathdealer
1x Reaper of the Wilds
4x Siege Rhino
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Wingmate Roc
Instant (9)
4x Abzan Charm
2x Bile Blight
3x Hero's Downfall
3x Thoughtseize
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
2x Drown in Sorrow
1x Duneblast
1x Erase
1x Garruk, Apex Predator
1x Hornet Queen
1x Liliana Vess
1x Murderous Cut
2x Naturalize
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
2x Utter End
I feel like with this build I still hold advantages against Mardu and Jeskai, along with a good gameplan against the mirror, while also shoring up my control matchup.
As always, suggestions, thoughts, ideas always welcomed!
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsDecks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
For my matchups where I'm facing Stormbreath Dragon, the ways I survive are 1) Hero's Downfall, 2) Thoughtseize, 3) Herald of Torment, 4) Murderous Cut, and then 5) lifegain to stabilize. Do you run Thoughtseize?
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsYou might also add a second Murderous Cut.
Looking at it from a different angle, you have five instant-speed removal spells to answer Stormbreath. That's really not a bad situation, as long as you play with discipline and have other answers to the other problems those opponents present you with. So, are they pushing you to play your Downfalls on something else before they play Stormbreath? Could another spell - say Utter End or Bile Blight - be used in those situations to take the pressure off of Downfall and Cut?
I haven't had a chance to play against many whip decks with the new list. How has anyone who is running the walker list had trouble dealing with that? I have 1 Erase and 1 Erebos in the board, and 2 Utter Ends main. The doomwakes and drowns should get me through hornet queen or sidisi zombies, but I just feel like those decks will run me out of answers far too quickly.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
though if the dragon pilot thoughtseizes your only black removal spell, well then, gg you.
I was thinking if I play mclaren's list for a GP, but i don't think it's good MB against jeskai tokens. I do however noticed that the 2 people that copied this list went on to win an scg open and another came up short of the scg invi. however i am not convinced that this is a good list going to a large meta as a GP, you are a dog to tokens game 1 because all your spot removals and singleton dune and drown. plus time limit might be an issue here, as the deck is low on win cons.
I was thinking of running BBDs list for an upcoming GP. it's what like immapawner has posted. Thought im thinking it has a bad MU to ub control or anything that plays vaults.
Heir of the Wilds is good against a green meta. but the meta does not fare well for heir. whats your list? you run elspeth and heir? topdown abzan?
That's exactly why I wanted the doomwake in my main. it did tremendous work. I might even cut my third drown in the side as 2 giants and 2 drowns should get the job done most of the time.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth
1x Mana Confluence
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Plains
2x Forest
2x Temple of Silence
3x Temple of Plenty
3x Windswept Heath
3x Llanowar Wastes
3x Caves of Koilos
4x Sandsteppe Citadel
Planeswalker (6)
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Reaper of the Wilds
4x Courser of Kruphix
4x Siege Rhino
4x Sylvan Caryatid
Artifact (2)
1x Whip of Erebos
Instant (9)
1x Utter End
1x Muderous Cut
1x Bile Blight
4x Abzan Charm
4x Hero's Downfall
Sorcery (3)
3x Thoughtseize
1x Herald of Torment
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Erase
1x Suspension Filed
1x Soul of Innnistrad
1x Thoughtseize
1x Duneblast
1x Whip of Erebos
2x Arbor Colossus
2x Utter End
3x Drown in Sorrow
There is some trade but most people don't bring uncommons for trade (even stuff like stoke and Swiftspear)
I constantly adjust the sideboard depending on what I expect to see. Currently, ways to deal with Jeskai Tokens are taking up a lot of the board which is OK because those same cards answer a lot of current red-based strategies and are passable against Sultai and Hornet Queen problems. Most of the other slots are primarily for the mirror. I think the deck is a little soft to UB and UW control, but I'm not seeing much of those anyway. By the way, even though it's awesome when it works, I hate trying to set up Duneblast; it's just rarely ever worth the wait. Usually you can just wipe the board with End Hostilities and go from there. If Sultai gets huge, I might reconsider the Duneblast opinion though.
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Forest
2 Llanowar Wastes
1 Mana Confluence
2 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath
// Creatures
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Fleecemane Lion
1 Hornet Queen
4 Siege Rhino
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Wingmate Roc
4 Abzan Charm
1 Bile Blight
3 Hero's Downfall
1 Utter End
// Sorceries
2 Thoughtseize
// Artifacts
1 Whip of Erebos
// Planeswalkers
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Bile Blight
3 Drown in Sorrow
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 End Hostilities
1 Erase
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Utter End
Chord of Calling is a card I am giving a couple of slots for to add more consistency to the deck. I've played a few matches with it in the build, but have yet to draw one yet. So I can't really say how well it's been working for me. Has anyone else given some card slots to this card?
Anafenza, the Foremost seems really solid against the reanimator decks going on right now. I've got one main and am thinking about adding a second to my sideboard.
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I don't know about garruk, but i'd rather have read the bones. if you have a lot of dorks go for it. i once emblemed garruk, sure it was nice. but sometimes this might get stuck in your hand.
Erebos - can't gain life hardly matters compared to board presence. youd rather have board sweepers or card drawers here.
Bile blight is a necessary evil as with tokens rampant nowadays. you don't want mb last breath against a huge meta. it hardly hits anything other than a courser. youd rather have your rhinos attack, then when insect token blocks, go bile blight.
Chord is effective if you have dorks and a lot of mana. usually, in the mid game you are always tapped out casting your stuff, if you play the typical shell.
anafenza is badass. I have this thinking in the control abzan lists like mclaren's, ditch courser in favor of anafenza. though you're giving up card advantage, but against whip decks, you gain that card advantage back by them not being able to reanimate stuff.
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