I was waiting for the card to be spoiled, and I honestly can't say that I'm disappointed. The card looks fun, and I think it has merit as a playable card as well. The question is... where does this card belong? In Bant? RUG? BUG? or just UG?
Personally I would opt for a RUG Control with a Fireball to the face option (Clan Defiance)
well it works very well with Polukranos, Mistcutter, Clan Defiance, and obviously Sphinx's Rev. I would say it's best with RUG as you can keep mana floated off of Nykthos activations.
I'm going to be that guy for a change on spoiler season, and completely and utterly vent, sorry in advance. I'm a totally biased Simic fanboy who is not pleased and I'll come right out of the gates with that admission.
Side rant: Serious question, but why can't wizards just print more commander toys, in actual commander sets, or you know, make more commander sets for these shenanigan win more abilities? I really do not understand why they insist on some of the gods being very constructed playable, but then seem to arbitrarily decide that one certain color combination is getting shipped off to commanderville funzies. Is there really a method to this? I really would love to be enlighted and proven wrong, seriously. Thassa? You're totally deck-defining, and 4 of good, obviously intended for constructed, but sorry Karametra, you're an EDH toy. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ct/294) < - Today's article, the source of Kruphix's spoil, they are completely and blatantly showing him off as their new EDH brainchild.
Back on topic/trying to be objective about this guy in CONSTRUCTED:
-5 CMC in a midrange simic build, okay, curve considerations aside, let's figure a few things, and first actually discuss *possibly welcoming homes/shells* for this card. I'm completely open to the johnny magic possibility that this could be "built around", but it seems very damned unlikely by all rights.
--What "draw engines" does Simic (Aka Green splash blue Devotion/Nykthos spam.deck)really employ? Garruk, Caller of Beasts, to a lesser extent, Prime Speaker Zegana. The point that needs to be stressed here is, this isn't a deck that really keeps a full grip of creatures - there is a strong mix of ramp (mana dudes)+ lands + bombs, and these draw engines are needed (along with living mana dudes / Nykthos) to keep the deck going through pockets of dead draws more than anything.
>For *all intents and purposes* the you have no maximum hand size is flavor text for constructed. By the time I'm playing a 5 drop, I'm down to 2-4 cards in 90% of real games. I'm sure any green midrange standard player can agree/easily see the gist of what I mean there.
Okay, so half of our God's ability is very damn likely almost always null, we are not getting full value out of our card already. Half of the card, no potential payoff, the second half HAS TO BE AMAZING, and CONSISTENT.
CAN the no mana-emptying be useful enough in standard? That's not entirely the right question, whether any card is *good in it's format* is going to be determined by meta factors as well as the cards own power level. I'm just disappointed overall at this card's standalone power - "think of what he can do WITH WITH WITH WITHSphinx's Revelation!" "Clan Defiance!"
Sure, sounds fun. This does nothing to turn around a losing/behind game state, unless you have free turns to play with your mana, and that extra card *right there* you need in order to dump said mana.
But more on PRINCIPLE, where is a SIMIC splashy effect besides the old, obvious Cyclonic Rift Overload? This guy absolutely should not need to splash another color, just to break even, despite the synergies that may be possible.
This is just a rough sketch rambling of mine, but seriously, I hope to be proven wrong on this card being constructed playable, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, seriously pissed at wizards for pushing a commander toy on a color combination that badly needed a Xenagod-esque power player, if they really were "trying to push GU" at all.
TLDR: I'm just a mad gruul player wanting to splash blue, and viewing this completely in the context of this is worthless for smashing things better. Truth be told I want simic competitive playable on it's own damned merits and in it's own colors.
EDITs-Grammar/readability + Thanks for the support guys, I really did not "want" to slam down as hard as I did on a card I was so looking forward to.
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
If Kruphix gets used, I think it will be in a more reactive deck, using either Prophet and flash creatures or counterspells to respond to threats while building up mana for later use.
But I'm not creative enough to figure that out on limited sleep, so for now I'm envisioning a deck that goes something like
This will go nicely in my Prophet deck. Probably just a 1-of, but it's at least a big dumb beater as I almost always have a board jammed with devotion pips. The abilities are kinda win-more TBH, but the infinitely filling mana pool is interesting. Syncopate, Mistcutter hydra and Polukranos and Cyclonic Rift all suddenly become better.
I really wish it had 5 or 6 power though. kinda annoying. Green should be pretty efficient for power/toughness.
*EDIT* having read Cassial's rant I'm now kinda like, yeahh... he doesss suck a little
This is just an example of what he can do. Simic can play 8-12 manadorks to get him out turn 4 consistently, and his ability lets you play creatures like Courser of Kruphix while saving up mana for a Tromokratis or overloaded Cyclonic Rift while stuck at 5 mana.
I'm going to be that guy for a change on spoiler season, and completely and utterly vent, sorry in advance. I'm a totally biased Simic fanboy who is not pleased and I'll come right out of the gates with that admission.
Side rant: Serious question, but why can't wizards just print more commander toys, in actual commander sets, or you know, make more commander sets for these shenanigan win more abilities? I really do not understand why they insist on some of the gods being very constructed playable, but decide that one certain color combination is getting shipped off to commanderville funzies. Is there really a method to this? I really would love to be enlighted and proven wrong, seriously. Thassa? You're totally deck-defining, and 4 of good, obviously intended for constructed, but sorry Karametra, you're an EDH toy.
Back on topic/trying to be objective about this guy in CONSTRUCTED:
5 CMC in a midrange simic build, okay, curve considerations aside, let's figure a few things, and first actually discuss *possibly welcoming homes/shells* for this card. I'm completely open to the johnny magic possibility that this could be "built around", but it seems very damned unlikely by all rights.
What "draw engines" does Simic (Aka Green splash blue Devotion/Nykthos spam.deck)really employ? Garruk, Caller of Beasts, to a lesser extent, Prime Speaker Zegana. The point that needs to be stressed here is, this isn't a deck that really keeps a full grip of creatures - there is a strong mix of ramp (mana dudes)+ lands + bombs, and these draw engines are needed (along with living mana dudes / Nykthos) to keep the deck going through pockets of dead draws more than anything.
For *all intents and purposes* the you have no maximum hand size is flavor text for constructed. By the time I'm playing a 5 drop, I'm down to 2-4 cards in 90% of real games. I'm sure any green midrange standard player can agree/easily see the gist of what I mean there.
Okay, half of a God's ability is very damn likely almost always null, not getting full value out of our card.
CAN the no mana-emptying be useful enough in standard? That's not entirely the right question, whether any card is *good in it's format* is going to be determined by meta factors as well as the cards own power level. I'm just disappointed overall at this card's standalone power - "think of what it can do with Sphinx's Revelation!" "Clan Defiance!"
Sure, sounds fun. This does nothing to turn around a losing/behind game state, unless you have free turns to play with your mana, and that extra card you need in order to dump said mana.
But more on PRINCIPLE, where is a SIMIC splashy effect besides the old obvious Cyclonic RiftOverload? This guy absolutely should not need to splash another color, just to break even, despite the synergies or what not.
This is just a rough sketch rambling of mine, but seriously, I hope to be proven wrong on this card being constructed playable, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, seriously pissed at wizards for pushing a commander toy on a color combination that badly needed a Xenagod-esque power player, if they really were "trying to push GU" at all.
TLDR: I'm just a mad gruul player wanting to splash blue, and viewing this completely in the context of this is worthless for smashing things better. Truth be told I want simic competitive playable on it's own damned merits and in it's own colors.
You should email that to wizards or post it on their message board
This guy is nuts. He is actually deceptive in how powerful it actually is.
Lets start from the top down. Five mana casting cost. This is exactly what we wanted for this god. I could care less what it's text box says. If this was any other mana he wouldn't work at all. Four mana was never an option with sylvan carytid in the same colors. If it was 6 he'd be unplayable. The reason we wanted this at 5 mana is this: Prophet of Kruphix can be played on your turn. Untap on your opponent's and Flash this in. Even if you do not have devotion it is a creature while your hand. Untap play Prime Speaker Zegana activating Kruphix draw 7 and keep them all. 5 mana alone makes this playable because of the support it has around its cost.
No maximum hand size. This is a big deal. Bant has some HUGE early game Sphinx's Rev. I often have to discard a lot of cards because of it. Not anymore.
Storing mana is fine. Often times with Prophet on the table you have no use for all your lands most of the time. This at least gives you something to store it up for. In RUG you can X damage them out of the game. With in BU we do have Biomass Mutation as a game ender. We don't get trample but if we're in a ramp deck with a lot of mana dorks it would work. Even curse of the swine not taking up most of the mana on your own turn. Cyclonic Rift overloads are usually game enders. There are a lot of huge spells in standard right now this guy can abuse.
I think that in the context of existing decks, Kruphix is entirely win more. Kruphix doesn't exactly power out huge Revelations, he can over the long game make everything you do less expensive. Kruphix isn't going to win you any games when you are behind, and even when you are ahead he doesn't actually do very much for you (casting big revelations isn't exactly hard for control decks)
The place I have him in for existing decks is as a 1 of in a control sideboard for the control matchup as he lets you hold up counter mana more easily. Decks built around Kruphix (like the T4 Worldspine list Devil_overlord0 posted) are his more likely home, but they seem inconsistent in a Thoughtseize world.
Kruphix doesn't exactly power out huge Revelations,
Yes we do power out huge Sphinx's Rev and early too. Plasma Capture is a card. I have often cast rev for 5-6 on turn 5 after a Capture. I usually have to discard cards to my Revs because of how early in the game we can fire one off. Not anymore. I get my cake and eat it too.
He's not even the strongest of the three we've seen from this set. He's good but you're overestimating the power of something that does a whole lot of nothing on its own. Also where are you getting that Zegana is drawing you 7 cards in that scenario of yours?
He's not even the strongest of the three we've seen from this set. He's good but you're overestimating the power of something that does a whole lot of nothing on its own. Also where are you getting that Zegana is drawing you 7 cards in that scenario of yours?
Strong God spoiled is what I should have said. No way overall.
Zegana would activate Kruphix making him a 6/5. Zegana gets +1/+1 counters = to the highest power you control (which is kruphix). She draws cards based on her power which is 1/1 + counters. That is 7 cards.
Apparently people cannot read today. Zegana has a replacement effect, so if Kruphix is already not a creature, as in "If Zegana is activating Kruphix", then Zegana does not "see" Kruphix when entering the battlefield.
[/quote]
Strong God spoiled is what I should have said. No way overall.
Zegana would activate Kruphix making him a 6/5. Zegana gets +1/+1 counters = to the highest power you control (which is kruphix). She draws cards based on her power which is 1/1 + counters. That is 7 cards.[/quote]
Apparently people cannot read today. Zegana has a replacement effect, so if Kruphix is already not a creature, as in "If Zegana is activating Kruphix", then Zegana does not "see" Kruphix when entering the battlefield.
You are correct sir(?). Zegana's +1/+1 counters are "as enters battlefield" so it only checks things as it is before she resolves. The draw trigger is "enter the battlefield."
The spoiler was showing me Kruphix was a 6/5. I haven't looked at MTGdaily today so I haven't seen from the mothership. Pretty common for salvation to have bugs in the spoilers. Sorry for that.
That just leaves Sphinx's Rev as the only good interaction. That is still fine imo. All the multicolor gods are a 2 of at max this one is no different.
You might have been looking at Keranos by mistake. Zegana is still pretty solid with him since it's likely that a build she would be in would have Kruphix already active anyway.
I think Bant Super Friends and plain old control will have this at least as a one of. If it shows up great! If not nothing of great value is lost.
He's/she's/it's bad, but I definitely want 4 of him/her/it. I've said it before and I'll say it again; Simic (UG) is probably the worst represented and designed color combination in Magic. It's never had a clear identity and for some reason Wizard's seems afraid to push it's power level and creative space. Whereas other 2-color combinations have been given interesting and/or powerful interpretations of their slice of the color pie, Simic has always been an afterthought at best.
That said, I love the potential for Simic and am hopeful of how it could be used in the future. As of now, and this card, I'll just jank it up every other FNM and enjoy the ride.
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I was waiting for the card to be spoiled, and I honestly can't say that I'm disappointed. The card looks fun, and I think it has merit as a playable card as well. The question is... where does this card belong? In Bant? RUG? BUG? or just UG?
Personally I would opt for a RUG Control with a Fireball to the face option (Clan Defiance)
Side rant: Serious question, but why can't wizards just print more commander toys, in actual commander sets, or you know, make more commander sets for these shenanigan win more abilities? I really do not understand why they insist on some of the gods being very constructed playable, but then seem to arbitrarily decide that one certain color combination is getting shipped off to commanderville funzies. Is there really a method to this? I really would love to be enlighted and proven wrong, seriously. Thassa? You're totally deck-defining, and 4 of good, obviously intended for constructed, but sorry Karametra, you're an EDH toy. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ct/294) < - Today's article, the source of Kruphix's spoil, they are completely and blatantly showing him off as their new EDH brainchild.
Back on topic/trying to be objective about this guy in CONSTRUCTED:
-5 CMC in a midrange simic build, okay, curve considerations aside, let's figure a few things, and first actually discuss *possibly welcoming homes/shells* for this card. I'm completely open to the johnny magic possibility that this could be "built around", but it seems very damned unlikely by all rights.
--What "draw engines" does Simic (Aka Green splash blue Devotion/Nykthos spam.deck)really employ? Garruk, Caller of Beasts, to a lesser extent, Prime Speaker Zegana. The point that needs to be stressed here is, this isn't a deck that really keeps a full grip of creatures - there is a strong mix of ramp (mana dudes)+ lands + bombs, and these draw engines are needed (along with living mana dudes / Nykthos) to keep the deck going through pockets of dead draws more than anything.
>For *all intents and purposes* the you have no maximum hand size is flavor text for constructed. By the time I'm playing a 5 drop, I'm down to 2-4 cards in 90% of real games. I'm sure any green midrange standard player can agree/easily see the gist of what I mean there.
Okay, so half of our God's ability is very damn likely almost always null, we are not getting full value out of our card already. Half of the card, no potential payoff, the second half HAS TO BE AMAZING, and CONSISTENT.
CAN the no mana-emptying be useful enough in standard? That's not entirely the right question, whether any card is *good in it's format* is going to be determined by meta factors as well as the cards own power level. I'm just disappointed overall at this card's standalone power - "think of what he can do WITH WITH WITH WITH Sphinx's Revelation!" "Clan Defiance!"
Sure, sounds fun. This does nothing to turn around a losing/behind game state, unless you have free turns to play with your mana, and that extra card *right there* you need in order to dump said mana.
But more on PRINCIPLE, where is a SIMIC splashy effect besides the old, obvious Cyclonic Rift Overload? This guy absolutely should not need to splash another color, just to break even, despite the synergies that may be possible.
This is just a rough sketch rambling of mine, but seriously, I hope to be proven wrong on this card being constructed playable, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, seriously pissed at wizards for pushing a commander toy on a color combination that badly needed a Xenagod-esque power player, if they really were "trying to push GU" at all.
TLDR: I'm just a mad gruul player wanting to splash blue, and viewing this completely in the context of this is worthless for smashing things better. Truth be told I want simic competitive playable on it's own damned merits and in it's own colors.
EDITs-Grammar/readability + Thanks for the support guys, I really did not "want" to slam down as hard as I did on a card I was so looking forward to.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9157664&postcount=1
South Carolina State Champion: 2012
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
But I'm not creative enough to figure that out on limited sleep, so for now I'm envisioning a deck that goes something like
Kruphix Family
Wants to go Elvish Mystic > Courser of Kruphix > wait : Dictate of Kruphix > Prophet of Kruphix : Kruphix, God of Horizons > wait : Worldspine Wurm > Hunter's Prowess and draw all the cards. (If we're assuming a post-Ravnica cardpool, I suppose Colossus of Akros could take the place.
Or,
Simic Horizons
Elf > Kiora's Follower > Master Biomancer > Prophet : Kruphix > Zegana for 9 cards : wait > Biomass Mutation for 9 and swing with 6 creatures.
I really wish it had 5 or 6 power though. kinda annoying. Green should be pretty efficient for power/toughness.
*EDIT* having read Cassial's rant I'm now kinda like, yeahh... he doesss suck a little
T2 land, Sylvan Caryatid
T3 land, Prophet of Kruphix, flash in Kruphix
T4 land, float 6, untap, play Worldspine Wurm
This is just an example of what he can do. Simic can play 8-12 manadorks to get him out turn 4 consistently, and his ability lets you play creatures like Courser of Kruphix while saving up mana for a Tromokratis or overloaded Cyclonic Rift while stuck at 5 mana.
4 Boon Satyr
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Kruphix, God of Horizons
3 Prognostic Sphinx
4 Prophet of Kruphix
2 Cyclonic Rift
4 Dictate of Kruphix
4 Negate
4 Scatter Arc
4 Simic Charm
4 Breeding Pool
10 Forest
7 Island
4 Temple of Mystery
It lacks oomph. Hrm. I think the deck needs to just turtle and accumulate mana for a finishing move.
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Kruphix, God of Horizons
2 Mistcutter Hydra
4 Prophet of Kruphix
22 Spells
2 Curse of the Swine
2 Cyclonic Rift
4 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
4 Negate
4 Scatter Arc
4 Simic Charm
4 Breeding Pool
9 Forest
7 Island
4 Temple of Mystery
You should email that to wizards or post it on their message board
Lets start from the top down. Five mana casting cost. This is exactly what we wanted for this god. I could care less what it's text box says. If this was any other mana he wouldn't work at all. Four mana was never an option with sylvan carytid in the same colors. If it was 6 he'd be unplayable. The reason we wanted this at 5 mana is this: Prophet of Kruphix can be played on your turn. Untap on your opponent's and Flash this in. Even if you do not have devotion it is a creature while your hand. Untap play Prime Speaker Zegana activating Kruphix draw 7 and keep them all. 5 mana alone makes this playable because of the support it has around its cost.
No maximum hand size. This is a big deal. Bant has some HUGE early game Sphinx's Rev. I often have to discard a lot of cards because of it. Not anymore.
Storing mana is fine. Often times with Prophet on the table you have no use for all your lands most of the time. This at least gives you something to store it up for. In RUG you can X damage them out of the game. With in BU we do have Biomass Mutation as a game ender. We don't get trample but if we're in a ramp deck with a lot of mana dorks it would work. Even curse of the swine not taking up most of the mana on your own turn. Cyclonic Rift overloads are usually game enders. There are a lot of huge spells in standard right now this guy can abuse.
So far he's the strongest god.
The place I have him in for existing decks is as a 1 of in a control sideboard for the control matchup as he lets you hold up counter mana more easily. Decks built around Kruphix (like the T4 Worldspine list Devil_overlord0 posted) are his more likely home, but they seem inconsistent in a Thoughtseize world.
[THS|SOM|5TH] Devotion to Black
Yes we do power out huge Sphinx's Rev and early too. Plasma Capture is a card. I have often cast rev for 5-6 on turn 5 after a Capture. I usually have to discard cards to my Revs because of how early in the game we can fire one off. Not anymore. I get my cake and eat it too.
He's not even the strongest of the three we've seen from this set. He's good but you're overestimating the power of something that does a whole lot of nothing on its own. Also where are you getting that Zegana is drawing you 7 cards in that scenario of yours?
Strong God spoiled is what I should have said. No way overall.
Zegana would activate Kruphix making him a 6/5. Zegana gets +1/+1 counters = to the highest power you control (which is kruphix). She draws cards based on her power which is 1/1 + counters. That is 7 cards.
I don't know about the other things, but Zegana activating Kruphix isn't far-fetched.
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
Why not?
Apparently people cannot math today. Explain to me in what world 1+6 does not = 7.
Relevant Ruling: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/549308-zegana-gods-devotion-question
And Kruphix has 4 power. What world are you in?
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
Strong God spoiled is what I should have said. No way overall.
Zegana would activate Kruphix making him a 6/5. Zegana gets +1/+1 counters = to the highest power you control (which is kruphix). She draws cards based on her power which is 1/1 + counters. That is 7 cards.[/quote]
6/5? I still don't get it. Kruphix is a 4/7.
You are correct sir(?). Zegana's +1/+1 counters are "as enters battlefield" so it only checks things as it is before she resolves. The draw trigger is "enter the battlefield."
The spoiler was showing me Kruphix was a 6/5. I haven't looked at MTGdaily today so I haven't seen from the mothership. Pretty common for salvation to have bugs in the spoilers. Sorry for that.
That just leaves Sphinx's Rev as the only good interaction. That is still fine imo. All the multicolor gods are a 2 of at max this one is no different.
Bant control brews with Kiora and Sphinx's revelations are going to be happening around this card.
Most definitely. And I plan to be at the forefront.
I think Bant Super Friends and plain old control will have this at least as a one of. If it shows up great! If not nothing of great value is lost.
That said, I love the potential for Simic and am hopeful of how it could be used in the future. As of now, and this card, I'll just jank it up every other FNM and enjoy the ride.