So the basic principle is that it tries to operate like successful UW Control decks that rely on just a couple win conditions and the rest is control, except the win conditions are mill instead. I know Quicken is a bit of an oddity here, but I've never felt bad about drawing this card. The problem I've always encountered without it is that sometimes you have that supreme verdict and a dissolve, but not enough mana to use both. Control wants to play as many cards during the opponent's turn as possible, so that it's never tapped out when it needs to counter. And Quicken solves that problem, has a negligible casting cost, and replaces itself. If nothing else, it can be dumped at opponent's EOT for something else. I generally add them to the deck by turning 4 4-ofs into 3-ofs, since with Quicken you are going to dig deeper into the library anyway.
The sideboard is where I feel the greatest uncertainty. Against control, I have Negate and Duress to replace Nullify and Supreme Verdict. Against aggro, I have Drown in Sorrow to replace Hero's Downfall. Dark Betrayal is an additional force against Rakdos Aggro, and also against Monoblack Devotion. I'm unsure about Ratchet Bomb and Pithing Needle. They seem like obvious choices but I've never really been sure when to bring them in.
I feel like it's almost there, but still struggling. The thing that would make the deck great is an anti-creature enchantment of some kind. Maybe in the next set...
Mostly what I am looking for is... is this the best I can expect to do with the concept of creatureless esper control/mill currently? The deck went 2-2 at the local weekly Standard this week, but I didn't have the Temple of Enlightenment yet, and the losses taught me that I need Dark Betrayal badly as an option for Rakdos Aggro (the 3/1 haste Spike Jester is pretty rough for this deck that otherwise would need to wait until Downfall/Drown in Sorrow/Verdict is an option).
I had Psychic Strike in there before. The thing is, mill of 2 is not usually going to have a big effect on the game, and I'd much rather have Scry 1. And the only reason I use Pilfered Plans (which is also mill 2) is that Divination literally has nothing over it if you have black mana available.
Just as an update, this deck has not fared well for me. Last night was the last time I am playing it. Jace is brutal when he gets out, especially if he doesn't die the following turn, and Ashiok has done its job from time to time, but surviving that long is just proving to be really hard. I had predicted the deck would be good against control, but it lost 0-1 to UW Control (went to time on game 2, after 42 minutes for game 1). I also had issues against Bestow creatures which would leave threats on the field after Supreme Verdict. My conclusion is that, while Esper Control is still a competitor that frequently shows up in Top 8 lists, the nature of the current Standard metagame does not make it easy for a creatureless variant to succeed.
Sorry to hear that the deck isn't faring too well for you. I'd encourage you, however, not to give up on esper--personally, I feel like I have fairly decent matchups against most of the decks floating around out there. Just a few suggestions:
1) I'm sure plenty of people will disagree, but, in terms of draw spells, I've been having great luck with Inspiration, and I would recommend swapping out Pilfered Plans in lieu of it. I can't ever think of a situation in which I feel like I must drop a Divination or Read the Bones on curve, and I'm more than happy to pay an extra mana to play it at instant speed. This would also allow you to swap out Quicken, seeing as how that would have Supreme Verdict as your only sorcery.
2) Unless your meta has a ton of enchant decks floating around, I would consider swapping Nullify for Essence Scatter. Simply put, it's easier to come up with one source of blue mana, rather than two. I keep three in the mainboard and three Negates in the sideboard for control matchups.
3) I know that you're trying to do a creatureless build, but you really should try and stuff in another win-con. Perhaps an Elspeth, Sun's Champion or two? Aetherling works too. I know that those are fairly standard UWx win-cons, but there's a reason for that. I like to run 3 copies of Haunted Plate Mail for the lulz. It comes down two turns earlier than Elspeth or Aetherling, it dodges my verdicts, and it can follow up a board wipe with a pretty hefty blow. Additionally, that would technically fit in you creatureless theme.
4) Finally, perhaps consider upping the count of Ashiok? I run 3x, and it seems to always show up at a convenient time. Just a suggestion.
Not enough lands, no Mutavault, should have 4 Verdicts, too many Quicken.
I don't get Hero's Downfall in this deck. If you want to take out planeswalkers and don't have a Detention Sphere then Negate is your go to. It just seems too heavy on your mana base.
I don't like Thoughtseize either. What's the point? Card advantage early? So you can sit there doing nothing and your opponent will draw into threats anyway? You will have to shock to play it on turn 1 taking 4 life off. Your opponent will be grateful you're doing their work for them.
Splash black for win conditions like Ashiok and powerful answer cards like Far // Away and the ability to sideboard into Doom Blade for those nasty haste creatures.
How about playing the ultimate creatureless mill card? Millstone? Blasphemy? ***** card?
You make some good points... some thoughts behind some of the cards you mention.
I didn't have Mutavault because I wasn't trying to win by creature damage. I see that they could be used to block opposing Mutavaults, though.
Hero's Downfall is mostly in over Doom Blade because I want the flexibility of being able to take out both planeswalker threats (primarily the RG ones) and creatures that are troublesome for control (Obzedat in particular, which can't be touched by Doom Blade, also Stormbreath which is immune to D Sphere). I definitely can't afford to maindeck Negate because creatures are the biggest threats.
Thoughtseize is there because there are a handful of cards that absolutely screw over the deck otherwise. Slaughter Games is the most glaring example, although I didn't end up facing it in any games. The two creatures I mentioned before, and also Blood Baron.
I have Ashiok and Far // Away in there.
I've always played with 24 lands in decks (except weenie decks or decks with lots of mana ramp elves, where I usually play 20 lands). It's been my standard I guess. I seem to get an equal number of games where I draw too many land as I do where I don't draw enough, which suggests to me that it's the right number to use.
I really hate to be that guy, but you should take a look at this chart.
It shows the probability of being able to play a land on curve. If we look at the probability of playing a fifth mana on turn five, which would allow you to play Jace, which is at the top of your mana curve, on curve, we can see that by increasing the land count to 26 (common for most control decks), you increase your chances of being able to play him on curve by 10%! That's kind of a big deal. While esper does try to win by attrition, it's good to have the versatility to begin applying pressure whenever the opportunity presents itself.
I will go ahead and say that you're probably making the right call with Hero's Downfall. I run a playset, and if you don't have two sources of black mana by the time an applicable target presents itself, you've probably already lost. Similarly, I'll go ahead and support your decision not to include Mutavault. Sure, it's great in most decks, but, for your application, I do believe it would be unwise to include lands that don't produce colored mana.
If creatures present the biggest threat to you, I feel like I should go ahead and reiterate my suggestion of swapping out Nullify for Essence Scatter. As I mentioned before, it's easier on your mana base, and you don't want to make things any more difficult than absolutely necessary.
- 4 Hallowed Fountain
- 4 Watery Grave
- 4 Godless Shrine
- 4 Temple of Deceit
- 4 Temple of Silence
- 4 Temple of Enlightenment
- 2 Jace, Memory Adept
- 2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
- 3 Supreme Verdict
- 4 Detention Sphere
- 4 Dissolve
- 3 Nullify
- 3 Hero's Downfall
- 3 Thoughtseize
- 4 Quicken
- 4 Sphinx's Revelation
- 3 Pilfered Plans
- 1 Elixir of Immortality
SideboardSo the basic principle is that it tries to operate like successful UW Control decks that rely on just a couple win conditions and the rest is control, except the win conditions are mill instead. I know Quicken is a bit of an oddity here, but I've never felt bad about drawing this card. The problem I've always encountered without it is that sometimes you have that supreme verdict and a dissolve, but not enough mana to use both. Control wants to play as many cards during the opponent's turn as possible, so that it's never tapped out when it needs to counter. And Quicken solves that problem, has a negligible casting cost, and replaces itself. If nothing else, it can be dumped at opponent's EOT for something else. I generally add them to the deck by turning 4 4-ofs into 3-ofs, since with Quicken you are going to dig deeper into the library anyway.
The sideboard is where I feel the greatest uncertainty. Against control, I have Negate and Duress to replace Nullify and Supreme Verdict. Against aggro, I have Drown in Sorrow to replace Hero's Downfall. Dark Betrayal is an additional force against Rakdos Aggro, and also against Monoblack Devotion. I'm unsure about Ratchet Bomb and Pithing Needle. They seem like obvious choices but I've never really been sure when to bring them in.
I feel like it's almost there, but still struggling. The thing that would make the deck great is an anti-creature enchantment of some kind. Maybe in the next set...
Mostly what I am looking for is... is this the best I can expect to do with the concept of creatureless esper control/mill currently? The deck went 2-2 at the local weekly Standard this week, but I didn't have the Temple of Enlightenment yet, and the losses taught me that I need Dark Betrayal badly as an option for Rakdos Aggro (the 3/1 haste Spike Jester is pretty rough for this deck that otherwise would need to wait until Downfall/Drown in Sorrow/Verdict is an option).
I've also made a few changes to the sideboard:
Added Far // Away against midrange decks.
1) I'm sure plenty of people will disagree, but, in terms of draw spells, I've been having great luck with Inspiration, and I would recommend swapping out Pilfered Plans in lieu of it. I can't ever think of a situation in which I feel like I must drop a Divination or Read the Bones on curve, and I'm more than happy to pay an extra mana to play it at instant speed. This would also allow you to swap out Quicken, seeing as how that would have Supreme Verdict as your only sorcery.
2) Unless your meta has a ton of enchant decks floating around, I would consider swapping Nullify for Essence Scatter. Simply put, it's easier to come up with one source of blue mana, rather than two. I keep three in the mainboard and three Negates in the sideboard for control matchups.
3) I know that you're trying to do a creatureless build, but you really should try and stuff in another win-con. Perhaps an Elspeth, Sun's Champion or two? Aetherling works too. I know that those are fairly standard UWx win-cons, but there's a reason for that. I like to run 3 copies of Haunted Plate Mail for the lulz. It comes down two turns earlier than Elspeth or Aetherling, it dodges my verdicts, and it can follow up a board wipe with a pretty hefty blow. Additionally, that would technically fit in you creatureless theme.
4) Finally, perhaps consider upping the count of Ashiok? I run 3x, and it seems to always show up at a convenient time. Just a suggestion.
I don't get Hero's Downfall in this deck. If you want to take out planeswalkers and don't have a Detention Sphere then Negate is your go to. It just seems too heavy on your mana base.
I don't like Thoughtseize either. What's the point? Card advantage early? So you can sit there doing nothing and your opponent will draw into threats anyway? You will have to shock to play it on turn 1 taking 4 life off. Your opponent will be grateful you're doing their work for them.
Splash black for win conditions like Ashiok and powerful answer cards like Far // Away and the ability to sideboard into Doom Blade for those nasty haste creatures.
How about playing the ultimate creatureless mill card? Millstone? Blasphemy? ***** card?
I didn't have Mutavault because I wasn't trying to win by creature damage. I see that they could be used to block opposing Mutavaults, though.
Hero's Downfall is mostly in over Doom Blade because I want the flexibility of being able to take out both planeswalker threats (primarily the RG ones) and creatures that are troublesome for control (Obzedat in particular, which can't be touched by Doom Blade, also Stormbreath which is immune to D Sphere). I definitely can't afford to maindeck Negate because creatures are the biggest threats.
Thoughtseize is there because there are a handful of cards that absolutely screw over the deck otherwise. Slaughter Games is the most glaring example, although I didn't end up facing it in any games. The two creatures I mentioned before, and also Blood Baron.
I have Ashiok and Far // Away in there.
I've always played with 24 lands in decks (except weenie decks or decks with lots of mana ramp elves, where I usually play 20 lands). It's been my standard I guess. I seem to get an equal number of games where I draw too many land as I do where I don't draw enough, which suggests to me that it's the right number to use.
It shows the probability of being able to play a land on curve. If we look at the probability of playing a fifth mana on turn five, which would allow you to play Jace, which is at the top of your mana curve, on curve, we can see that by increasing the land count to 26 (common for most control decks), you increase your chances of being able to play him on curve by 10%! That's kind of a big deal. While esper does try to win by attrition, it's good to have the versatility to begin applying pressure whenever the opportunity presents itself.
I will go ahead and say that you're probably making the right call with Hero's Downfall. I run a playset, and if you don't have two sources of black mana by the time an applicable target presents itself, you've probably already lost. Similarly, I'll go ahead and support your decision not to include Mutavault. Sure, it's great in most decks, but, for your application, I do believe it would be unwise to include lands that don't produce colored mana.
If creatures present the biggest threat to you, I feel like I should go ahead and reiterate my suggestion of swapping out Nullify for Essence Scatter. As I mentioned before, it's easier on your mana base, and you don't want to make things any more difficult than absolutely necessary.
basically I am playing grixis but the lack of detention sphere is killing me.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own