ive been in stnd for awhile now. BWR has always hung around some, never been the top deck to have but always stood a chance against everything. rite now, i believe, BWR is very good. with the combination of all the good removal in all three colors of the deck, really good dominating creatures in all three colors, the deck is very balanced and stream line. ive now been playing BWR myself for 2 weeks. ive placed in the top 3 at my FNM both weeks against 30+ other ppl, many that do grand prixs and PTQs often. they all play the top decks rite now, monoblue, monoblack and of course all the different combinations of blue control decks. the only deck i had slight trouble with was the monoblue, but i have beaten it. so my question is why arent more ppl playing BWR? it seems really really good rite now
I play it and the mono blue matchup isn't really bad at all, with chained to the rocks and anger of the gods and dreadbore its pretty easy to keep their devotion down, and game 2 is eaier because of slaughter games but, the reason for people not playing it is that its 3 color, harder to get consistent mana.
yes, and downfall to, love that card. 3 color can be awkward yeah but there are alot of other 3 color decks that get played alot more then BWR does. jund and junk are very popular in my area but when you mention them playing BWR they give you the stink eye. its be only changing one color in their deck but opening up alot better options
so then how does it beat the net deck monoblue, monoblack, esper, and the annoying g/w aggro? if BWR is tier 3 then what does that say for the decks it beats every week?
the top 15ish every week are regular PTQ and grand prix players. 6 or 7 of those top 8 at grand prixs and a couple have gone to pro tour, didnt do super well but just making it says something. theyve been playing for 15+ years, id say their pretty good players playing pretty good decks
if the decks that are being played are the same decks being played at the gp's then the atmosphere its being played in doesent matter. winning against it is winning against wether its at a gp, fnm, or pro tour
if the decks that are being played are the same decks being played at the gp's then the atmosphere its being played in doesent matter. winning against it is winning against wether its at a gp, fnm, or pro tour
Look 3 color decks have terrible mana. That means that you will lose a certain percentage of games because of it.
If you play in a 10 round tournament like an SCG Open or Grand Prix running such a deck is hard to justify if you want to win that event. Especially because Mono-Blue and Black and UW Control dont have that kind of problem.
Esper is the only 3 color combination that could be considered competitive and that is because it has many tools that let it catch back up like Supreme Verdict and Sphinx's Revelation. BWR doenst have any of these.
Dont make the mistake and think that only because BWR is winning at your FNM makes it a good deck that can compete with the top dogs.
Matt Costa won an SCG Open with Jund and Brad Nelson won an Invitational with Naya Control but those decks were never seen again because they are actually not that good.
Its about consistency and that is what all 3 color decks and even some 2 color decks like R/W Devotion or G/R Devotion are lacking right now.
ok how about this. is there any way to do black/white and splash for red for reckoner and anger the gods? i do love slaughter games and assemble the legion in my side board but i can live with out those. anger is just a good board wipe against alot of decks. or is black/white without the red a better option? once born of the gods comes out then ill pbly def. switch to white/black with drown in sorrow coming out
ok how about this. is there any way to do black/white and splash for red for reckoner and anger the gods? i do love slaughter games and assemble the legion in my side board but i can live with out those. anger is just a good board wipe against alot of decks. or is black/white without the red a better option? once born of the gods comes out then ill pbly def. switch to white/black with drown in sorrow coming out
that list is close to what im thinking of. i tend to like to do my own stuff, get ideas from other decks and go off that. im thinking of a few less creatures then that one and more spells. the meta for my area is creature heavy so play sets of downfalls, ultimate price, doom blade and devour flesh. so im thinking:
if the decks that are being played are the same decks being played at the gp's then the atmosphere its being played in doesent matter. winning against it is winning against wether its at a gp, fnm, or pro tour
The main differences are that
A) There are no scrubs at the Pro Tour
B) There are no scrubs Day 2 at a GP
C) There are no scrubs in the top 8 of a PTQ
D) People spend weeks testing for those events. FNM is not taken seriously and people play loosely.
Inconsistency is the primary problem as the risk of color screw and subsequent tempo loss outweigh any possible reward granted by the color combination. Maybe at an FNM this won't be as blatant of a problem, but in longer events you will notice this and it will cost you games. I mean, even Jund runs into this problem and it can fix with Caryatid.
Mono B is playing a relatively similar game as yours and it's going to hit its colors every single time (awkward multiple Mutavualt draws aside).
I understand the appeal. I've been trolling people with a 4C midrange deck lately and it's aesthetically pleasing and a ton of fun to play. You better believe I wouldn't bring that pile of junk to a large event or even into a DE for that matter (well maybe a DE but I wouldn't expect to do well).
I've been running this deck since rotation. The main problem it has is you either flood out, or don't draw the cards that you need (i.e. siding a bunch of removal vs aggro but never seeing them Game 2). It's also quite slow to get going, as your main plan is removing threats until you hit 5 mana and then ride an Obzedat/BBoV/Stormbreath to victory. It can also have several dead cards game 1 depending on how you build it.
YMMV, but I've been having a helluva time against mono-U, they always seem to find a Thassa or Bident against me even when I Thoughtseize the first one away.
Mono-black (outside of turn 2 Pack Rat when you have no removal) and Control are much easier matchups for me comparatively.
I would like to think I am pretty qualified to chime in here on this a bit.
The reason people are not playing the deck right now, is because it is just a bad deck. Don't get me wrong, the deck is perfectly capable of winning a number of games. In fact, the deck can be configured to really beat any specific match you want it to. Therein lies the problem, and the reason people do not play this deck.
Not only are these configurations vastly different from each other, but they are also completely unstable in a meta game where we have all of these decks that function on flurry mechanics that WBR are almost always open to.
The options that exist in these colors are just too narrow to be able to compete with decks that have much less narrow approaches to handling a game. Especially when all of those decks vary in speed and WBR always has just one speed... slow as ****. It generates value out of goodstuff creatures and removal, where other decks generate value off of simply existing until critical mass is achieved and can do something absurd.
I would like to think I am pretty qualified to chime in here on this a bit.
The reason people are not playing the deck right now, is because it is just a bad deck. Don't get me wrong, the deck is perfectly capable of winning a number of games. In fact, the deck can be configured to really beat any specific match you want it to. Therein lies the problem, and the reason people do not play this deck.
Not only are these configurations vastly different from each other, but they are also completely unstable in a meta game where we have all of these decks that function on flurry mechanics that WBR are almost always open to.
The options that exist in these colors are just too narrow to be able to compete with decks that have much less narrow approaches to handling a game. Especially when all of those decks vary in speed and WBR always has just one speed... slow as ****. It generates value out of goodstuff creatures and removal, where other decks generate value off of simply existing until critical mass is achieved and can do something absurd.
Agreed on all points. The only players that seriously run these colors are RW and RB players splashing for Barons. And even those colors aren't widely competitive. I will say I am going to try these colors again thanks to Brimaz and Temple of Malice, so maybe there will be some hope in the future.
BWR is a viable deck and also very fun to play however it's inconsistent both in results and in play....
I believe what zemanjanski is trying to say that it's subpar to the current top decks in the meta due to its complications and mana screwability....
Right now the meta is heavily tilted towards mono-coloured aggro/midrange and esper/azorius control...
I play dega midrange at FNMs and have a great time doing so but I wouldn't take the deck to gps or even gamesday, not that it's non-competitve, it's just that there are better decks which performs better, costs less to obtain and "easier" to play espeically when theres cash at stake :3
Will be interesting once born hit the shelves but I do not predict BWR going all dominating...
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Currently Playing:
Standard: Mardu Midrange, Jeskai Wins, Naya Walkers, Boss Sligh, Mono Black Aggro
Modern: RUG Scapeshift, Burn, UG Infect
Legacy: Death n Taxes, Burn, Tendrils
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Krenko, Mob Boss, Narset, Enlightened Master
I would like to think I am pretty qualified to chime in here on this a bit.
The reason people are not playing the deck right now, is because it is just a bad deck. Don't get me wrong, the deck is perfectly capable of winning a number of games. In fact, the deck can be configured to really beat any specific match you want it to. Therein lies the problem, and the reason people do not play this deck.
Not only are these configurations vastly different from each other, but they are also completely unstable in a meta game where we have all of these decks that function on flurry mechanics that WBR are almost always open to.
The options that exist in these colors are just too narrow to be able to compete with decks that have much less narrow approaches to handling a game. Especially when all of those decks vary in speed and WBR always has just one speed... slow as ****. It generates value out of goodstuff creatures and removal, where other decks generate value off of simply existing until critical mass is achieved and can do something absurd.
I also completely agree. I never chimed in on the competitive thread on Dega, but I tried so very hard to make this deck do work. I did numerous dailies on MODO and very rarely won more than 1 in 5-7 games. It's such a fun deck with numerous threats but its not positioned well at all. Dega is probably one of my favorite color slices due to it's versatility. It just can't keep up in the meta right now though.
if the decks that are being played are the same decks being played at the gp's then the atmosphere its being played in doesent matter. winning against it is winning against wether its at a gp, fnm, or pro tour
Nope.... FNM Is not even remotly the same as a GP or a Pro Tour. A GP is a freaking 3 day event with you rolling your ass out of bed at the crack of damn dawn unless you get you byes. FNM like 4 hours, maybe? Also, if your lucky you might get a box of boosters for 1st place. Pro tours are actually money. I mean.... no.... it is just not the same. It is like saying I play poker at my friends house on dude night, so that is the same as the world series of poker on espn.
Forget about Anger, while it is a helpful card, Drown in Sorrows should serve the same purpose most of the time, without being hard to get the mana for. Splashing for a 1RR means you will rarely(read "almost never") play it until turn 4 anyways. If you want to play BW, that is a pretty solid deck. You can even splash for Assemble if you want to (because it is possibly the best card in format vs MBD). However, don't make the mistake of trying to play a fully RWB deck like the ones that were semi-viable last year.
RW midrange has been testing well for me, and BW midrange seems pretty powerful, but 3 color decks that aren't Bant(with mana fixing) or Esper (who doesn't need heavy colored cards and can catch back up) simply suffer from to many problems. Just because a deck works sometimes doesn't make it good. Heck, I lost to a 5 color deck g1 on Cockatrice testing yesterday (the 5color legend bestowed on t4). That didn't mean the deck was good(only played a three total nonland cards in g2 and g3 combined cause color probs).
While three color decks may be good for placing in the top 4/top 8 at FNM, in a larger tourny you will have game losses from bad mana bases. The power to sometimes, even often, beat good decks doesn't help if you sometimes lose rounds simply because of bad mana bases. Decide on BW, RW, or even BR
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URWTwin
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Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
This is not even remotely true.
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Look 3 color decks have terrible mana. That means that you will lose a certain percentage of games because of it.
If you play in a 10 round tournament like an SCG Open or Grand Prix running such a deck is hard to justify if you want to win that event. Especially because Mono-Blue and Black and UW Control dont have that kind of problem.
Esper is the only 3 color combination that could be considered competitive and that is because it has many tools that let it catch back up like Supreme Verdict and Sphinx's Revelation. BWR doenst have any of these.
Dont make the mistake and think that only because BWR is winning at your FNM makes it a good deck that can compete with the top dogs.
Matt Costa won an SCG Open with Jund and Brad Nelson won an Invitational with Naya Control but those decks were never seen again because they are actually not that good.
Its about consistency and that is what all 3 color decks and even some 2 color decks like R/W Devotion or G/R Devotion are lacking right now.
B/W is perfectly viable since it's at its core still a mono-black deck but adding white just gives it more options.
Here is the list from Brennan DeCandio who made 2nd place with it two weeks ago at SCG Open Orlando
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=62523
3 blood baron
4 desecration demon
2 obzedat
2 elspeth
4 downfall
4 ultimate price
4 doom blade
4 devour flesh
4 thoughtseize
2 underworld connection
2 duress
25 land
If you want to play BW just play it, there's no need to splash.
The main differences are that
A) There are no scrubs at the Pro Tour
B) There are no scrubs Day 2 at a GP
C) There are no scrubs in the top 8 of a PTQ
D) People spend weeks testing for those events. FNM is not taken seriously and people play loosely.
Mono B is playing a relatively similar game as yours and it's going to hit its colors every single time (awkward multiple Mutavualt draws aside).
I understand the appeal. I've been trolling people with a 4C midrange deck lately and it's aesthetically pleasing and a ton of fun to play. You better believe I wouldn't bring that pile of junk to a large event or even into a DE for that matter (well maybe a DE but I wouldn't expect to do well).
YMMV, but I've been having a helluva time against mono-U, they always seem to find a Thassa or Bident against me even when I Thoughtseize the first one away.
Mono-black (outside of turn 2 Pack Rat when you have no removal) and Control are much easier matchups for me comparatively.
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The reason people are not playing the deck right now, is because it is just a bad deck. Don't get me wrong, the deck is perfectly capable of winning a number of games. In fact, the deck can be configured to really beat any specific match you want it to. Therein lies the problem, and the reason people do not play this deck.
Not only are these configurations vastly different from each other, but they are also completely unstable in a meta game where we have all of these decks that function on flurry mechanics that WBR are almost always open to.
The options that exist in these colors are just too narrow to be able to compete with decks that have much less narrow approaches to handling a game. Especially when all of those decks vary in speed and WBR always has just one speed... slow as ****. It generates value out of goodstuff creatures and removal, where other decks generate value off of simply existing until critical mass is achieved and can do something absurd.
Agreed on all points. The only players that seriously run these colors are RW and RB players splashing for Barons. And even those colors aren't widely competitive. I will say I am going to try these colors again thanks to Brimaz and Temple of Malice, so maybe there will be some hope in the future.
I believe what zemanjanski is trying to say that it's subpar to the current top decks in the meta due to its complications and mana screwability....
Right now the meta is heavily tilted towards mono-coloured aggro/midrange and esper/azorius control...
I play dega midrange at FNMs and have a great time doing so but I wouldn't take the deck to gps or even gamesday, not that it's non-competitve, it's just that there are better decks which performs better, costs less to obtain and "easier" to play espeically when theres cash at stake :3
Will be interesting once born hit the shelves but I do not predict BWR going all dominating...
Standard: Mardu Midrange, Jeskai Wins, Naya Walkers, Boss Sligh, Mono Black Aggro
Modern: RUG Scapeshift, Burn, UG Infect
Legacy: Death n Taxes, Burn, Tendrils
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Krenko, Mob Boss, Narset, Enlightened Master
I also completely agree. I never chimed in on the competitive thread on Dega, but I tried so very hard to make this deck do work. I did numerous dailies on MODO and very rarely won more than 1 in 5-7 games. It's such a fun deck with numerous threats but its not positioned well at all. Dega is probably one of my favorite color slices due to it's versatility. It just can't keep up in the meta right now though.
Nope.... FNM Is not even remotly the same as a GP or a Pro Tour. A GP is a freaking 3 day event with you rolling your ass out of bed at the crack of damn dawn unless you get you byes. FNM like 4 hours, maybe? Also, if your lucky you might get a box of boosters for 1st place. Pro tours are actually money. I mean.... no.... it is just not the same. It is like saying I play poker at my friends house on dude night, so that is the same as the world series of poker on espn.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
RW midrange has been testing well for me, and BW midrange seems pretty powerful, but 3 color decks that aren't Bant(with mana fixing) or Esper (who doesn't need heavy colored cards and can catch back up) simply suffer from to many problems. Just because a deck works sometimes doesn't make it good. Heck, I lost to a 5 color deck g1 on Cockatrice testing yesterday (the 5color legend bestowed on t4). That didn't mean the deck was good(only played a three total nonland cards in g2 and g3 combined cause color probs).
While three color decks may be good for placing in the top 4/top 8 at FNM, in a larger tourny you will have game losses from bad mana bases. The power to sometimes, even often, beat good decks doesn't help if you sometimes lose rounds simply because of bad mana bases. Decide on BW, RW, or even BR