I been seeing this deck appear more often on MTGO now and wondering what the general consensus about it was. I been using Mono Black and it has been giving my deck some problems, but I think its because since I was so unprepared for it that I didnt know how to deal with it. Here is the mainstream list thats been going around on MTGO thats been doing decent in the dailies.
1 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Daring Skyjek
3 Desecration Demon
2 Imposing Sovereign
4 Lyev Skyknight
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Xathrid Necromancer
24 creatures
4 Detention Sphere
1 Doom Blade
1 Far // Away
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Ultimate Price
2 Whip of Erebos
11 other spells
Sideboard
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Doom Blade
1 Far // Away
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Negate
1 Orzhov Charm
1 Sin Collector
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Thoughtseize
2 Underworld Connections
15 sideboard cards
I dont understand how this thing works with such abysmal mana since it runs so many shock lands along with mutavault along with a few double white and black cards. There is some strong combos with Necromancer, Whip and Aristocrat. Obzedat is the curve topper along with Whip. I seen this deck called Esper Mid Range, but its really not since its more of an Aggro deck than a control one. The Necromancer makes all the humans good, Pantheon is a pretty good card in this meta, the Skynight seems pretty underrated really and Verdict/Dsphere seem pretty good. I dont see this running the format since the mana is so bad but it looks like it could be somewhat decent since it runs a lot of strong cards providing it doesnt get mana screwed.
This deck is actually pretty sweet. I have been tossing it around a bit and it is fairly robust and the mana is really not as bad as it looks. This is certainly the Japanese tech of the season that we generally see this time of year.
Yup this deck got second place at the Grand Prix. How is the mana abysmal? The temples and shocks fix the mana perfectly. In the current format any decks that run the temples generally have an easier time which is why decks such as this and esper control have a better chance than those that don't have access to the temples yet. Plus if you examine the cards a bit more you'll see that it's an orzhov aggro deck splashing blue for lyev and detention sphere. 8 out of the main 35 have one blue symbol
I been seeing this deck appear more often on MTGO now and wondering what the general consensus about it was. I been using Mono Black and it has been giving my deck some problems, but I think its because since I was so unprepared for it that I didnt know how to deal with it. Here is the mainstream list thats been going around on MTGO thats been doing decent in the dailies.
I dont understand how this thing works with such abysmal mana since it runs so many shock lands along with mutavault along with a few double white and black cards. There is some strong combos with Necromancer, Whip and Aristocrat. Obzedat is the curve topper along with Whip. I seen this deck called Esper Mid Range, but its really not since its more of an Aggro deck than a control one. The Necromancer makes all the humans good, Pantheon is a pretty good card in this meta, the Skynight seems pretty underrated really and Verdict/Dsphere seem pretty good. I dont see this running the format since the mana is so bad but it looks like it could be somewhat decent since it runs a lot of strong cards providing it doesnt get mana screwed.
It's a solid deck. Really strong vs the monoB and monoU
It's a clever idea, and one that you should play around with at a few FNMs.
Magic does tend to cause "tunnel vision", where people feel that homebrews or clever deviations need not apply, but in my experiance something like this can surprise your opponent who might not know exactly how to respond.
Let us know how it turns out for you if you take it into the shop.
I think it's a very strong deck, powerful against the UW decks and the devotion decks that are based on 1 for 1 trades. I don't like how it matches up against the red decks though, the hyper aggressive red is a terrible matchup for it, and red devotion decks are slightly unfavorable.
Went 4-0 at my local FNM last week. I think I'm taking it to the super IQ in NC this Saturday. I'm not entirely sold on the Cartel Aristocrat though. I've been playing Daring Skyjek in it's place, but I'm not really sold on that card either. The matchup is pretty abysmal against Rakdos Deck wins though. Might just put in two more removal cards in the place.
Went 4-0 at my local FNM last week. I think I'm taking it to the super IQ in NC this Saturday. I'm not entirely sold on the Cartel Aristocrat though. I've been playing Daring Skyjek in it's place, but I'm not really sold on that card either. The matchup is pretty abysmal against Rakdos Deck wins though. Might just put in two more removal cards in the place.
Good to know its been doing well. Mind posting some match up summaries for us?
Round 1
Played a Selesnya populate deck. Only deck that beat me a game. First game he gets out an Armada Wurm and that's that.
Second and third game add more removal and he is unable to keep up. Blood Baron keeps me out of the danger zone
Can't remember what I played round two
Round 3 vs. Vesper Control
First game he mulls to 5 and some quick beats from imposing sovereign and skyjek puts the pressure on. He drops Jace, which I detain and its over pretty quickly.
Second game I mull to 5. Its looking pretty bad for me but I resolve a ghost dad and he never has an answer for it. He said when he sphinxed for 5 it was nothing but land so maybe I got lucky. Also, mutavault put some work in.
Round 4 vs. MonoBlack Devotion
Game 1 he drops a couple kill spells and is playing the control role but a 7/7 demon makes short work of his game plan. I far/away and d-sphere to get the damage through
Game two he trys to rat race me (pun intended). D-sphere stops the first Pack Rat and a verdict stops the second. He gets me down to 3 or so life, but then Blood Baron of Vizkopa slowly drains him and gains life for me. After a few turns he scoops after he saw he was losing next combat
So I'm thinking about 2 High priest of penance in place if cartel aristocrat. I'll see how it goes tomorrow at FNM and post results.
This might sound naive, but why is obzedat the 5 drop and not blood baron? Is it the trick with whip or is the blinking/lifegain that relevant?
It does a better job of further shoring up the control match-up where as the Baron doesn't and generally can be very hit or miss (which is why he's SB material).
So i placed High priest of penance in instead of Cartel Aristocrat and I think it seems better. I only played 8 or so games (4 against MBD and 4 against R/W Devotion). It slows down almost all the red decks and I don't mind getting chained to the rocks on a High Priest versus my demon or other big threats like Xathrid Necromancer, plus overloaded mortars gives you a free destruction on something good(it killed a Chandra!). In the MBD matchup it slowed down the Rat onslaught as well, and that is probably the matchup where its worse(except maybe U/W control). Its just with Cartel Aristocrat I hardly ever sac a creature, so it seems like the weak link in the deck. Also, if you watch the Sam Black video up today, he boards out Aristocrat often and it seems like High Priest would have been great in a lot of those matchups. Will post after FNM tonight to see if I can go 4-0 again. Wish me luck!
Cartel aristocrat seemed like a weak Xathrid necromancer trick anyways. What are the optimal plays for this deck? I've been fooling around with it on tappedout but I'm not always exactly sure what to do.
Cartel aristocrat seemed like a weak Xathrid necromancer trick anyways. What are the optimal plays for this deck? I've been fooling around with it on tappedout but I'm not always exactly sure what to do.
Get a bunch of humans out. Then board wipe and finish the job with zombies and obzedat or Demon. Or just chump block to keep you alive if your are playing a more aggressive deck then finish the job with one of your bombs. Remember two Necromancers gives you a double trigger so you can create a nice swarm. Also use your removal for Demon to swing unchecked so they can't tap him. Whip of Erebos works great with Lyev Skyknight and Obzedat.
Cartel really slows down aggro, since you can block two threats, and then sak the chumper to keep her alive, and if you have a necromancer that can stall for days. I've won two matchups that I should have lost.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
Cartel really slows down aggro, since you can block two threats, and then sak the chumper to keep her alive, and if you have a necromancer that can stall for days. I've won two matchups that I should have lost.
Arguably, High Priest of Penance has a better time blocking and attacking through removal, and works better against first strike (Ash Zealot...)
Interested in see what happened at some FNMs now that the deck has been on the market for a little bit now. I've played it a couple of times on MTGO see pretty powerful but then again I'm playing with a $30 UB half control. Lol. This is pretty high on my purchase list so let's hear how it's done this last week.
I guess this kind of deck is really more of a meta choice than anything else, but I tested Takao's list against a buddy's R/W devotion and I got stomped every time. How do we win?
I do think the cfb article makes some valid points though; the deck certainly needs more focus, and dropping the curve lower really helps matchups against aggressive decks. I'm really not sold on running just 1 whip though. Its such a powerful way to stabilize that losing it could be devastating. The article's list plays a lot more like a B/W aggro with a blue splash, which I like because its more consistent, but it doesn't seem to have as much late game power. Maybe that's what we should be doing?
CFBs articles seem worse and worse every time I read them. If anyone has played this deck they'd understand there's interaction between each card. Whip is important in recurring your creatures after you verdict. Xathrid necromancer makes verdict feel one sided. And desecration demon + obzedat are your best whip targets.
If you're goal is to just play a three color white weenie deck you'd be better off with just going W/B aggro.
The idea behind this deck is to start with early pressure if possible and be able to keep that pressure on by controlling the mid game with verdict/detention sphere/removal/lyev skynight. Backed up with the obzedat/whip combo to win the late game.
I have not enjoyed using cartel aristocrat in the deck though, even against aggro where it is the most useful. I've tuned the deck to be more consistent of a mana base while incorporating the card I think best shuts down red (as well as control decks and opposing desecration demons); Precinct Captain. Precinct Captain allows you to have more defense against aggro decks while also being a better threat to close the game than a Daring Skyjet. However, this cost the inclusion of mutavault to allow for more white mana sources. I did notice in playtest that mutavault was not being used to its potential anyways since you almost always will tap all of your mana each turn, or leave it up for removal. Mutavualt wasn't a big loss.
24 Lands might be a little light and I may have to find room for one more land... but the curve isn't that high and my 1-3 cc cards are pretty high impact until I get to 5 mana.
I tested the previous version seen online at a local PTQ and the changes above are what I'm proposing as a result. I ended up 4 and 3 before dropping. Should have been 5 and 2 if I hadn't misplayed my final game, either way not enough to top 8. This deck is a lot of fun, but its inconsistency was obvious, hopefully taking out the mutavaults will help.
I've played a few local events with the deck, and it certainly is the most fun I've had this season. It does some really powerful things. The only games I tend to lose are ones where I don't get all three of my colors.
My initial versions of the deck included 2 Obz / 2 Blood Baron / 2 Demon since I was worried about drawing too many multiple legendaries. I've since moved to the 3x Obz plan and dropped BBoV to the SB.
R/W Devotion and G/R Monsters seem to be my hardest matchups. I've not played against the new G/W yet, but it seems pretty threat dense and equally challenging.
Cartel Aristocrat has not been in my deck at all (was paying Skyjek/Sovereign), but I've added 2x Soul Ransom to the deck to have some more answers against the likes of Polukranos, Stormbreath, Reckoner, Demon, Master of Waves, etc. I feel like having Cartel and Soul Ransom on the board is really powerful.
The deck is really weak to Shrivel, Profit // Loss, & Electrickery so having 2 toughness on Cartel is not insignificant.
I wanted Spear of Heliod in the deck, since I find quite a few of my post-Wrath games come down to Mutavault and Spear is a huge trump card on those situations. It also increases your clock quite a bit with a zombie army. I had to drop a Skyknight to make it fit though since 12 cards at 3CMC is the most I want to play with. Otherwise the curve is too clunky and you end up with hands full of 3 drops.
Orzhov Charm is a hugely versatile 1 or 2-of in the deck. Highly recommend. I did find Far // Away to be too slow but I seem to be in the minority on that opinion. None of the other 2-cmc removal interest me much. Doom Blade or Last Breath are my favorites of the options because killing Mutavault is so important. Nightveil Specter is really scary to play against and must be dealt with.
Playing less than 25 lands seems like a huge mistake. I don't like the deck with less than 26 personally. Missing land drops is what kills me most of the time. With 8 Temples in the deck, you can scry away what you don't need on land-heavy draws.
edit: Sideboard options are the hardest to evaluate for this deck because it has SO many options. Dark Betrayal, Notion Thief, Elspeth, Underworld Connections, High Priest of Penance, and Pithing Needle are all great choices I don't have room for. This is a deck where you can really transform into pretty hard control against a lot of aggressive strategies, so making sure you evaluate the entire 75 card pool is extremely important. Playing 25 lands and a Mutavault in the sideboard when you are the controlling deck is also a viable option. Got a bit excited about Soul Ransom, it's SB material but solid. Demon is probably needed main deck.
Sure the deck might be fun, but how competitive is it? Demon is easily an "answer me or die" against control, and against aggro he just eats guys. I want to like this deck but the manabase still seems too shaky.
How many people are going to be running any version of this deck tonight. I feel like the shock value on mana base might be a little rough especially with the hyper aggro of rdw and the new GW
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4 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Mutavault
3 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Silence
4 Watery Grave
25 lands
1 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Daring Skyjek
3 Desecration Demon
2 Imposing Sovereign
4 Lyev Skyknight
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Xathrid Necromancer
24 creatures
4 Detention Sphere
1 Doom Blade
1 Far // Away
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Ultimate Price
2 Whip of Erebos
11 other spells
Sideboard
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Doom Blade
1 Far // Away
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Negate
1 Orzhov Charm
1 Sin Collector
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Thoughtseize
2 Underworld Connections
15 sideboard cards
I dont understand how this thing works with such abysmal mana since it runs so many shock lands along with mutavault along with a few double white and black cards. There is some strong combos with Necromancer, Whip and Aristocrat. Obzedat is the curve topper along with Whip. I seen this deck called Esper Mid Range, but its really not since its more of an Aggro deck than a control one. The Necromancer makes all the humans good, Pantheon is a pretty good card in this meta, the Skynight seems pretty underrated really and Verdict/Dsphere seem pretty good. I dont see this running the format since the mana is so bad but it looks like it could be somewhat decent since it runs a lot of strong cards providing it doesnt get mana screwed.
Shota Takao's deck
It's a solid deck. Really strong vs the monoB and monoU
EDH
BU LazavUB
GU Momir VigUG
Magic does tend to cause "tunnel vision", where people feel that homebrews or clever deviations need not apply, but in my experiance something like this can surprise your opponent who might not know exactly how to respond.
Let us know how it turns out for you if you take it into the shop.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
One change I made that is awesome though is cut the 4th Imposing Sovereign for a singleton of Blind Obedience. been working very well.
Good to know its been doing well. Mind posting some match up summaries for us?
Round 1
Played a Selesnya populate deck. Only deck that beat me a game. First game he gets out an Armada Wurm and that's that.
Second and third game add more removal and he is unable to keep up. Blood Baron keeps me out of the danger zone
Can't remember what I played round two
Round 3 vs. Vesper Control
First game he mulls to 5 and some quick beats from imposing sovereign and skyjek puts the pressure on. He drops Jace, which I detain and its over pretty quickly.
Second game I mull to 5. Its looking pretty bad for me but I resolve a ghost dad and he never has an answer for it. He said when he sphinxed for 5 it was nothing but land so maybe I got lucky. Also, mutavault put some work in.
Round 4 vs. MonoBlack Devotion
Game 1 he drops a couple kill spells and is playing the control role but a 7/7 demon makes short work of his game plan. I far/away and d-sphere to get the damage through
Game two he trys to rat race me (pun intended). D-sphere stops the first Pack Rat and a verdict stops the second. He gets me down to 3 or so life, but then Blood Baron of Vizkopa slowly drains him and gains life for me. After a few turns he scoops after he saw he was losing next combat
So I'm thinking about 2 High priest of penance in place if cartel aristocrat. I'll see how it goes tomorrow at FNM and post results.
It does a better job of further shoring up the control match-up where as the Baron doesn't and generally can be very hit or miss (which is why he's SB material).
Get a bunch of humans out. Then board wipe and finish the job with zombies and obzedat or Demon. Or just chump block to keep you alive if your are playing a more aggressive deck then finish the job with one of your bombs. Remember two Necromancers gives you a double trigger so you can create a nice swarm. Also use your removal for Demon to swing unchecked so they can't tap him. Whip of Erebos works great with Lyev Skyknight and Obzedat.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
Arguably, High Priest of Penance has a better time blocking and attacking through removal, and works better against first strike (Ash Zealot...)
Anyone read the article on Channel Fireball about this deck? I'll share the list below. I'm interested in opinions on the removal of Desecration Demon and relegation of Supreme Verdict to the sideboard. I'm considering replacing Verdict with Profit // Loss.
Aforementioned list:
3 Mutavault
3 Plains
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple of Silence
4 Godless Shrine
3 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
4 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Imposing Sovereign
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Detention Sphere
3 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Lyev Skyknight
1 Ultimate Price
1 Whip of Erebos
3 Far Away
1 Doom Blade
4 Daring Skyjek
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Sin Collector
1 Far Away
2 Doom Blade
3 Dark Betrayal
2 Ashiok Nightmare Weaver
1 Notion Thief
I do think the cfb article makes some valid points though; the deck certainly needs more focus, and dropping the curve lower really helps matchups against aggressive decks. I'm really not sold on running just 1 whip though. Its such a powerful way to stabilize that losing it could be devastating. The article's list plays a lot more like a B/W aggro with a blue splash, which I like because its more consistent, but it doesn't seem to have as much late game power. Maybe that's what we should be doing?
If you're goal is to just play a three color white weenie deck you'd be better off with just going W/B aggro.
The idea behind this deck is to start with early pressure if possible and be able to keep that pressure on by controlling the mid game with verdict/detention sphere/removal/lyev skynight. Backed up with the obzedat/whip combo to win the late game.
I have not enjoyed using cartel aristocrat in the deck though, even against aggro where it is the most useful. I've tuned the deck to be more consistent of a mana base while incorporating the card I think best shuts down red (as well as control decks and opposing desecration demons); Precinct Captain. Precinct Captain allows you to have more defense against aggro decks while also being a better threat to close the game than a Daring Skyjet. However, this cost the inclusion of mutavault to allow for more white mana sources. I did notice in playtest that mutavault was not being used to its potential anyways since you almost always will tap all of your mana each turn, or leave it up for removal. Mutavualt wasn't a big loss.
Here's the list:
4x Godless Shrine
4x Hallowed Fountain
5x Plains
3x Temple of Deceit
4x Temple of Silence
4x Watery Grave
2x Desecration Demon
3x Imposing Sovereign
4x Lyev Skyknight
3x Obzedat, Ghost Council
4x Precinct Captain
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Xathrid Necromancer
1x Doom Blade
2x Far // Away
1x Ultimate Price
2x Supreme Verdict
4x Detention Sphere
2x Whip of Erebos
24 Lands might be a little light and I may have to find room for one more land... but the curve isn't that high and my 1-3 cc cards are pretty high impact until I get to 5 mana.
I tested the previous version seen online at a local PTQ and the changes above are what I'm proposing as a result. I ended up 4 and 3 before dropping. Should have been 5 and 2 if I hadn't misplayed my final game, either way not enough to top 8. This deck is a lot of fun, but its inconsistency was obvious, hopefully taking out the mutavaults will help.
My initial versions of the deck included 2 Obz / 2 Blood Baron / 2 Demon since I was worried about drawing too many multiple legendaries. I've since moved to the 3x Obz plan and dropped BBoV to the SB.
R/W Devotion and G/R Monsters seem to be my hardest matchups. I've not played against the new G/W yet, but it seems pretty threat dense and equally challenging.
Cartel Aristocrat has not been in my deck at all (was paying Skyjek/Sovereign), but I've added 2x Soul Ransom to the deck to have some more answers against the likes of Polukranos, Stormbreath, Reckoner, Demon, Master of Waves, etc. I feel like having Cartel and Soul Ransom on the board is really powerful.
The deck is really weak to Shrivel, Profit // Loss, & Electrickery so having 2 toughness on Cartel is not insignificant.
Here's where my list is at currently:
4x Godless Shrine
4x Hallowed Fountain
2x Mutavault
4x Plains
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Temple of Silence
4x Watery Grave
Creatures (21):
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
2x Cartel Aristocrat
3x Imposing Sovereign
3x Lyev Skyknight
4x Xathrid Necromancer
2x Desecration Demon
3x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Thoughtseize
1x Doom Blade
1x Orzhov Charm
1x Spear of Heliod
2x Supreme Verdict
4x Detention Sphere
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Doom Blade
1x Glare of Heresy
1x Negate
2x Profit // Loss
3x Sin Collector
2x Soul Ransom
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Thoughtseize
I wanted Spear of Heliod in the deck, since I find quite a few of my post-Wrath games come down to Mutavault and Spear is a huge trump card on those situations. It also increases your clock quite a bit with a zombie army. I had to drop a Skyknight to make it fit though since 12 cards at 3CMC is the most I want to play with. Otherwise the curve is too clunky and you end up with hands full of 3 drops.
Orzhov Charm is a hugely versatile 1 or 2-of in the deck. Highly recommend. I did find Far // Away to be too slow but I seem to be in the minority on that opinion. None of the other 2-cmc removal interest me much. Doom Blade or Last Breath are my favorites of the options because killing Mutavault is so important. Nightveil Specter is really scary to play against and must be dealt with.
Playing less than 25 lands seems like a huge mistake. I don't like the deck with less than 26 personally. Missing land drops is what kills me most of the time. With 8 Temples in the deck, you can scry away what you don't need on land-heavy draws.
edit: Sideboard options are the hardest to evaluate for this deck because it has SO many options. Dark Betrayal, Notion Thief, Elspeth, Underworld Connections, High Priest of Penance, and Pithing Needle are all great choices I don't have room for. This is a deck where you can really transform into pretty hard control against a lot of aggressive strategies, so making sure you evaluate the entire 75 card pool is extremely important. Playing 25 lands and a Mutavault in the sideboard when you are the controlling deck is also a viable option. Got a bit excited about Soul Ransom, it's SB material but solid. Demon is probably needed main deck.