I'm of the impression that nothing Dark Ritual could do in Standard would be truly broken, what with no ways to quickly win using the extra mana for a card. I'd much prefer a Lotus Petal reprint, because it wouldn't just cater to one color.
Still, if they're reprinting Dark Ritual, it'll be red most likely.
Right now considering the power of mono coloured strategies any one mana ritual would be insane. Stupidly broken. T1 Connections go.. T1 Thoughtseize Rats go... How about even drawing it turn 4, after T2 Rat.. T3 make a Rat. T4 make 2 Rats.. Suddenly you are on curve with Rats or with Mutavault ahead.
Pack Rats aside I think even in a format like Alara where everything was multicolored but not hybrid a card like Ritual might still be too powerful as a T2 play giving you XYYY. That would be the best case for it to be reasonable. I think it has to cost 2 to be balanced or have some sort of restriction that keeps you off the T1 3 mana, T2 4 mana, and probably T3 5 mana track off a single card. Beyond that it doesn't matter. Chaining them is fine it's just the pure tempo gain per card ratio needs to be contained early.
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redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Think about Golgari:
T1 overgrown Tomb, elvish mystic
T2 Land, Dark Ritual.
You now have 5 mana to use for: Black/Green God, Desacration demon, Lilinana's reaver, 2 pack rats, World Eater, Kalonian Hydra
Look, there is something that people do not consider when they think about Dark Ritual, that is simple card advantage.
Dark Ritual costs a card, and to use it you need to have an opening hand with at least three other cards to really make it have an impact, otherwise you need to play overcosted cards or mana dump type effects to actually utilize/abuse the card itself.
Ultimately the goal is to get a midgame card onto the field early, probably something mono black. Any removal spell casted on the card played results in a 2 for 1, and any abuse of the card means playing a bigger creature early to get card advantage, or an enchantment/artifact that gives you some kind of other big advantage.
Therefore, not only is the card conditional, but also a dead card late game. Certainly, mono black midrange could become "aggro" with the right utilization of this card. But in a format with it, removal spells gain more value, and if you consider the other 1 for 3 cards that were printed along with Dark Ritual, you would realize it was fairly weak in comparison to it's fellow colors, with the exception of Healing Salve.
WoTc printed the following set of 5 cards that provided an effect of "3 for one mana"
Of the five I can think of at least two that have been reprinted. If they reprinted them all, it would certainly CERTAINLY warp magic the gathering, but Dark Ritual? It wouldn't be broken, it would just be strong. Dark Ritual would force decklists to adapt to it, or adopt it.
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
People would stop playing decks without black. There would just be too many ways to lose VS ritual, X draws, and the best spells against those draws are in black (Devour Flesh, Abrupt Decay, Thoughtseize, Dark Betrayal, Etc.) Plays like the following would be a huge pain:
T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Nightvale Specter or Underworld Connections.
T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize/Duress, Pack Rat
T1: Swamp, T2: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Desecration Demon or sub Forest, Reaper of the Wilds.
Then you have the Magical Christmasland plays that make the current Nykthos based MC plays look bad, like:
T1: Swamp, Thoughtseize/Duress, T2: Mountain, Dark ritual x3, Rakdos's Return for your opponents entire hand.
T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual x3, Pack Rat x3
T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual x3, Thoughtsieze yourself pitching Ashen Rider, play Festing Newt, Sac the Newt to Rescue from the Underworld the Ashen Rider.
I'm sure someone can do much better, but it was a fun exercise.
Look, there is something that people do not consider when they think about Dark Ritual, that is simple card advantage.
Dark Ritual costs a card, and to use it you need to have an opening hand with at least three other cards to really make it have an impact, otherwise you need to play overcosted cards or mana dump type effects to actually utilize/abuse the card itself.
Ultimately the goal is to get a midgame card onto the field early, probably something mono black. Any removal spell casted on the card played results in a 2 for 1, and any abuse of the card means playing a bigger creature early to get card advantage, or an enchantment/artifact that gives you some kind of other big advantage.
Therefore, not only is the card conditional, but also a dead card late game. Certainly, mono black midrange could become "aggro" with the right utilization of this card. But in a format with it, removal spells gain more value, and if you consider the other 1 for 3 cards that were printed along with Dark Ritual, you would realize it was fairly weak in comparison to it's fellow colors, with the exception of Healing Salve.
WoTc printed the following set of 5 cards that provided an effect of "3 for one mana"
Of the five I can think of at least two that have been reprinted. If they reprinted them all, it would certainly CERTAINLY warp magic the gathering, but Dark Ritual? It wouldn't be broken, it would just be strong. Dark Ritual would force decklists to adapt to it, or adopt it.
Card advantage isnt the end all be all. There is a balance between two for ones that would always make Dark Ritual worth it. If you can stick your spell after a DR, you will probably win. If it is removed, you are hurt a card, but its not the end of the world. I'll take those odds every time. Especially if I could turn 1 an Underworld Connections and draw all the cards for the rest of the game.
Dark ritual is more powerful than some of you know. It would wreck standard. Ritual into nightveil specter isn't even the best play you can make, but it alone would warp the format. Every single deck would need to be built with a way to deal with a 1st turn specter. You could mitigate the lategame "weakness" of the card by playing some "x" spells too. Even something that seems to be relatively weak at first glance like a rakdos cackler into dark favor is actually a pretty brutal thing to have to face. You're taking 5 damage a turn by turn 2, deal with it. Oh and then the second turn play could easily turn out to be Whip or Desecration Demon.
I don't even agree with the "it's weak late game" argument. There's plennnnty of ways to use an extra 2 mana, and plus when dark ritual is a thing, there IS no late game. This card is from a time when a "good creature" looked like this.
Also, people would stop playing decks with no black in them.
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I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
Nykthos + ritual in tha same meta would just break everything forever.
Still, if they're reprinting Dark Ritual, it'll be red most likely.
Never going to happen.
Besides, red is the ritual color these days.
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Pack Rats aside I think even in a format like Alara where everything was multicolored but not hybrid a card like Ritual might still be too powerful as a T2 play giving you XYYY. That would be the best case for it to be reasonable. I think it has to cost 2 to be balanced or have some sort of restriction that keeps you off the T1 3 mana, T2 4 mana, and probably T3 5 mana track off a single card. Beyond that it doesn't matter. Chaining them is fine it's just the pure tempo gain per card ratio needs to be contained early.
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Also, I'd play the hell out of some Mono B something.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
T1 overgrown Tomb, elvish mystic
T2 Land, Dark Ritual.
You now have 5 mana to use for: Black/Green God, Desacration demon, Lilinana's reaver, 2 pack rats, World Eater, Kalonian Hydra
If you are Jund, you can do Underworld Cerebrus
It would be broken.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
"How do you think Moxen being printed would affect standard?
"What would Black Lotus do in standard?"
It would be busted. Nothing to discuss beyond that. I don't really see what this thread is supposed to accomplish.
How would that affect the meta?
Dark Ritual costs a card, and to use it you need to have an opening hand with at least three other cards to really make it have an impact, otherwise you need to play overcosted cards or mana dump type effects to actually utilize/abuse the card itself.
Ultimately the goal is to get a midgame card onto the field early, probably something mono black. Any removal spell casted on the card played results in a 2 for 1, and any abuse of the card means playing a bigger creature early to get card advantage, or an enchantment/artifact that gives you some kind of other big advantage.
Therefore, not only is the card conditional, but also a dead card late game. Certainly, mono black midrange could become "aggro" with the right utilization of this card. But in a format with it, removal spells gain more value, and if you consider the other 1 for 3 cards that were printed along with Dark Ritual, you would realize it was fairly weak in comparison to it's fellow colors, with the exception of Healing Salve.
WoTc printed the following set of 5 cards that provided an effect of "3 for one mana"
Of the five I can think of at least two that have been reprinted. If they reprinted them all, it would certainly CERTAINLY warp magic the gathering, but Dark Ritual? It wouldn't be broken, it would just be strong. Dark Ritual would force decklists to adapt to it, or adopt it.
T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Nightvale Specter or Underworld Connections.
T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize/Duress, Pack Rat
T1: Swamp, T2: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Desecration Demon or sub Forest, Reaper of the Wilds.
Then you have the Magical Christmasland plays that make the current Nykthos based MC plays look bad, like:
T1: Swamp, Thoughtseize/Duress, T2: Mountain, Dark ritual x3, Rakdos's Return for your opponents entire hand.
T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual x3, Pack Rat x3
T1: Swamp, Dark Ritual x3, Thoughtsieze yourself pitching Ashen Rider, play Festing Newt, Sac the Newt to Rescue from the Underworld the Ashen Rider.
I'm sure someone can do much better, but it was a fun exercise.
Yes yes yes <3
Card advantage isnt the end all be all. There is a balance between two for ones that would always make Dark Ritual worth it. If you can stick your spell after a DR, you will probably win. If it is removed, you are hurt a card, but its not the end of the world. I'll take those odds every time. Especially if I could turn 1 an Underworld Connections and draw all the cards for the rest of the game.
However, T1 Thoughtseize + Pack Rat, or T2 Desecration Demon should be a pretty legit play. T1 Dark Rit + Specter, even.
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