Announcers have no idea how that burn deck sideboards. You board out Chained and Pyromancer and board in Toil//Trouble and Spark Trooper. Jace makes Assemble bad.
Could someone please explain the Elixir deck that is popping up?
Is Elixir being used to shuffle away Jace rejections?
Black uses discard but it's not really good against the draw power of the UW deck and Elixir lets you reuse everything so you never run out of answers.
Announcers have no idea how that burn deck sideboards. You board out Chained and Pyromancer and board in Toil//Trouble and Spark Trooper. Jace makes Assemble bad.
except that deck has no way to deal with fiendslayer paladin, which is why you keep chained to the rocks in.
Could someone please explain the Elixir deck that is popping up?
Is Elixir being used to shuffle away Jace rejections?
It shuffles your graveyard back into your library. You play out lands, cast huge revs, then get to reset your library minus a few more lands each time.
It makes you nearly unbeatable in the long game as your draws will be better and better than your opponents, and decking yourself with revelations isn't an issue.
You get too run fewer win conditions too as you just shuffle it back in and draw it later if it gets dealt with.
At least I think that's it, I'm just guessing based on the matches I've watched.
Could someone please explain the Elixir deck that is popping up?
Is Elixir being used to shuffle away Jace rejections?
From my understanding, it's insurance + reusable graveyard. Remember that the deck cycles through a sick amount of card with Revelation, and plans for the long-game. It also runs very few game enders, so it negates an untimely Thoughtseize or the like that remove your major threats. It gives you a bit of potential in a threat low deck that has an absolutely ridiculous amount of card draw and the like.
It's similar to a deck that popped up in M14 limited, actually, that ran off of Divination and Opportunity. Elixir was almost necessary for the build to function properly, as you draw so much and have so few actual threats that you could hit a very real problem of having no actual way to close out the game.
It also provides a nice, reusable wall against aggro deck, particularly Mono-red. 5 damage can usually buy you an extra turn, which gives you the ability to revelation for 2 or 3 over a revelation for 1 out of desperation.
It's actually not a terrible card at all if used in the right deck, and has plenty of potential. It allows a control build to be much more proactive with their threats, and worry less about protecting them and having to wait 2-3 turns to cast them out, and it allows control to run *fewer* threats than normal giving them more options to lock out the board state. Given that U/W has Revelation, Divination, and Azorius Charm to all draw through their deck quickly the slot used for Elixer makes sense. If you can draw or tempo a bunch with the charm early on, Revalation chain a couple times leaving one back, *then* follow up with an Elixer you have a near infinite engine that does can play out its threats without any worry whatsoever knowing that you can Revelation back into Elixir if need be. Jace, for instance, looks a hell of a lot better(Note-Jace is *already* amazing, but when you make him look better, that's saying something) when you don't need to worry about ticking it up every turn just to protect it. With Elixir you can tick him down, and not care if he goes to the yard. The +1 is still incredibly relevant mind you, but when you can dig twice with him, find another, dig twice, shuffle him back, Revelation into him and repeat it's an amazing piece of utility.
It shuffles your graveyard back into your library. You play out lands, cast huge revs, then get to reset your library minus a few more lands each time.
It makes you nearly unbeatable in the long game as your draws will be better and better than your opponents, and decking yourself with revelations isn't an issue.
You get too run fewer win conditions too as you just shuffle it back in and draw it later if it gets dealt with.
At least I think that's it, I'm just guessing based on the matches I've watched.
This. You draw your deck several times, until you feel like winning. It's why its called U/W Durdles.
Anybody else aggravated a bit by the commentary on the Red-Devotion vs UW control match-up? Jensen didn't do anything particularly amazing. This is not knocking Jensen in the least, and there were plenty of beautiful plays on his part, but he didn't dig out of an unwinnable hole like they are seemingly implying. Against a slower creature-based deck, U/W is standing pretty as they know what to watch out for with huge fanatics, and Verdicts just killed the board position that was gained before there was ever much of a problem. Granted, if Domri didn't brick so much it would have been a bit more drawn out, but I honestly don't think it mattered much at all by the time the second verdict went off. And the revs certainly helped. It's how the deck works, and it's well suited for that red match-up.
Anybody else aggravated a bit by the commentary on the Red-Devotion vs UW control match-up? Jensen didn't do anything particularly amazing. This is not knocking Jensen in the least, and there were plenty of beautiful plays on his part, but he didn't dig out of an unwinnable hole like they are seemingly implying. Against a slower creature-based deck, U/W is standing pretty as they know what to watch out for with huge fanatics, and Verdicts just killed the board position that was gained before there was ever much of a problem. Granted, if Domri didn't brick so much it would have been a bit more drawn out, but I honestly don't think it mattered much at all by the time the second verdict went off. And the revs certainly helped. It's how the deck works, and it's well suited for that red match-up.
Noticed that slightly, same again with this game - they're making it sound like Huey is super lucky to have staved off the attack, yet 10 turns ago they said "Oh, Huey has like a 90% shot of this game) which makes no sense.
Does the UW deck normally durdle this badly? Holy hell it's boring to watch.
It only has 2 win conditions in elspeth and aetherling. Well there is Also mutavault too but you can't expect a blow out early like an aggro or devotion deck that isn't black.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Is Orzhov Control a real deck? Anyone got a decklist?
Check the coverage page on DailyMTG.com, top 8 should be up by now. It should also be under the Top 16 from GP Vienna last weekend.
I sleeved the deck up after I saw it last weekend, been playing it all week. It's really cool. Very nice to see it have success this weekend.
@Tanion: Huey isn't even running Aetherling, just the lone Elspeth. It's awesome.
Does the UW deck normally durdle this badly? Holy hell it's boring to watch.
It's current incarnation is. It's only actual hard win-con is Elspeth (And to an a different extent Jace), and the entire point is to grind the game to a hault making a position that is generally impossible to win against.
*That said* it's not unbeatable. It is very well positioned against many of the decks right now, particularly strong devotion decks that want to (Or need to) build up a board position to do anything at all. U/W control preys on slower formats like right now (It may seem like a lightning fast format at the moment, but that's only because the devotion decks explode hard; the build up right now is grindy as hell).
If there was a solid sligh type aggro deck that broke through, the UW deck would have been in a bit more trouble. A turn 4 verdict is rough, but definitely not impossible, to beat. Granted that Blind Obedience would hurt in that situation but it's only a 1-of in the sideboard and unless he has it in his opening hand the more straight forward aggro decks will wreck it.
It only has 2 win conditions in elspeth and aetherling. Well there is Also mutavault too but you can't expect a blow out early like an aggro or devotion deck that isn't black.
Actually, Huey doesn't even run Aetherling, so he only has a single win condition in Elspeth, Sun's Champion. I was surprised when I first learned about this deck, but hey, I can't argue with those results!
Noticed that slightly, same again with this game - they're making it sound like Huey is super lucky to have staved off the attack, yet 10 turns ago they said "Oh, Huey has like a 90% shot of this game) which makes no sense.
Frankly I knew the games were over when the Red player didn't have much of a board state on turn 3, 4, and 5 even though Jenson didn't remove much at all by that point. Durdling against U/W is not where you want to be.
Frankly I knew the games were over when the Red player didn't have much of a board state on turn 3, 4, and 5 even though Jenson didn't remove much at all by that point. Durdling against U/W is not where you want to be.
Yeah game 2 was pretty much a foregone conclusion after Carlos stalled on lands and couldn't even play his 2 drops because of Ratchet Bomb. If anything the commentators were just trying to make the game sound more exciting than it actually was.
Christ, that's bad luck for Pat Cox. Rudy Fernandez was dreadful, takes a game loss for being an idiot and misplayed so badly he deserved to lose, but topdecks the one card in his deck he needs to win the game.
Magic can be cruel sometimes.
I don't know, he left the door open to loose to the top deck, if he leaves an extra creature back he can still swing for lethal iirc next turn.
Actually, Huey doesn't even run Aetherling, so he only has a single win condition in Elspeth, Sun's Champion. I was surprised when I first learned about this deck, but hey, I can't argue with those results!
Well there is Jace if it ever ultimates, but that's generally not going to happen
I personally thought that Esper was a bit greedy with how few threats it ran, and was a tad surprised that Jensen's deck came out. That said, Elixir is a nice thing to see in a competitive environment and really goes to show that sometimes people need to re-evaluate a card's utility before dismissing it as junk. I saw something in the card way back in M13 when I started playing again, and every standard player said it was terrible. Certainly it's *limited* in scope, and U/W can win without it at all, but it also provides a nice safety net for a deck that is trying to have as much card-draw as humanly possible to get into their control. I don't expect it at all to be in every decklist in the format, but any deck running U/W for revelation should be evaluating it pretty highly right now as a strong maindeck possibility.
That said, this match-up will be boring. Not entirely certain who it favors. Blood Baron certainly poses a major problem, meaning that Jensen will keep in his Verdicts. Pack Rats, however, will draw those out early. Nightveil specter is extremely scary for Jensen, as it can lead to stealing away a lot of cards early on (Even lands would be painful to see go for Jensen). Thoughtseize and Duress have the ability to rip things out, and the person should be cognizant of how strong Elixir will be for Jensen if you just rip out Revelation.
Buuuut, it's a slow match up against a deck that like that. Blood Baron is a lot less scary when every revelation you put out makes it so that the Blood Baron just does nothing. Or you just never tap out once the opponent hits 5 mana, which is more likely.
Should be an "interesting" control match-up for those into that sort of thing. It's going to be long, though. Very long.
Yeah game 2 was pretty much a foregone conclusion after Carlos stalled on lands and couldn't even play his 2 drops because of Ratchet Bomb. If anything the commentators were just trying to make the game sound more exciting than it actually was.
Even game 1 was over long before they seemingly thought it was. I've played Mono-red style decks for a very long while, and my old meta was chock full of U/W control. The deck actually hasn't changed a great deal post-Theros with the exception of Elspeth and some minor changes. By the time that a U/W player can leave open 6-7 mana a turn you've lost pretty much every time.
In reality, I'm not surprised that U/W control did so well in the format right now. As a meta call, it's wonderfully positioned. Mono-U, Mono-B, Mono-G, Red-Devotion, other control builds... all of these just need to build up some sort of board position to go off, which just gives you time to build up your resources without burning out of answers early on. And when they try to pull of anything, you can easily disrupt it. Given it's incredible consistency in draws, both due to sticking to 2 color and due to the incredible amount of card draw and cantrips it has, it can find the answer it needs fairly early.
Game 1 more or less is. Game 2 will be more interesting. With a full boat of Duress and Thoughtseize it'll be interesting. And, once again, I need to state how cognizant Marlon needs to be of Elixer. Ripping dissolves, verdicts, and Revs is pointless if he just gets them back eventually. At some point ripping an elixir could be the absolutely correct play over something like Elspeth or Revelation. You can answer everything you want, but if your opponent just gets it back you're screwed.
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Yeah but I just couldnt resist
URU/R TempoRU
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ur-counterburn-26-10-13-1/
Standard:
RBB/R MadnessBR
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-07-16-imI-br-vampires/
Caleb Durward:
Is Elixir being used to shuffle away Jace rejections?
Black uses discard but it's not really good against the draw power of the UW deck and Elixir lets you reuse everything so you never run out of answers.
except that deck has no way to deal with fiendslayer paladin, which is why you keep chained to the rocks in.
It shuffles your graveyard back into your library. You play out lands, cast huge revs, then get to reset your library minus a few more lands each time.
It makes you nearly unbeatable in the long game as your draws will be better and better than your opponents, and decking yourself with revelations isn't an issue.
You get too run fewer win conditions too as you just shuffle it back in and draw it later if it gets dealt with.
At least I think that's it, I'm just guessing based on the matches I've watched.
You can just ignore the Paladin. The best it can do is gain 2 life on turn 4.
URU/R TempoRU
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ur-counterburn-26-10-13-1/
Standard:
RBB/R MadnessBR
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-07-16-imI-br-vampires/
Caleb Durward:
From my understanding, it's insurance + reusable graveyard. Remember that the deck cycles through a sick amount of card with Revelation, and plans for the long-game. It also runs very few game enders, so it negates an untimely Thoughtseize or the like that remove your major threats. It gives you a bit of potential in a threat low deck that has an absolutely ridiculous amount of card draw and the like.
It's similar to a deck that popped up in M14 limited, actually, that ran off of Divination and Opportunity. Elixir was almost necessary for the build to function properly, as you draw so much and have so few actual threats that you could hit a very real problem of having no actual way to close out the game.
It also provides a nice, reusable wall against aggro deck, particularly Mono-red. 5 damage can usually buy you an extra turn, which gives you the ability to revelation for 2 or 3 over a revelation for 1 out of desperation.
It's actually not a terrible card at all if used in the right deck, and has plenty of potential. It allows a control build to be much more proactive with their threats, and worry less about protecting them and having to wait 2-3 turns to cast them out, and it allows control to run *fewer* threats than normal giving them more options to lock out the board state. Given that U/W has Revelation, Divination, and Azorius Charm to all draw through their deck quickly the slot used for Elixer makes sense. If you can draw or tempo a bunch with the charm early on, Revalation chain a couple times leaving one back, *then* follow up with an Elixer you have a near infinite engine that does can play out its threats without any worry whatsoever knowing that you can Revelation back into Elixir if need be. Jace, for instance, looks a hell of a lot better(Note-Jace is *already* amazing, but when you make him look better, that's saying something) when you don't need to worry about ticking it up every turn just to protect it. With Elixir you can tick him down, and not care if he goes to the yard. The +1 is still incredibly relevant mind you, but when you can dig twice with him, find another, dig twice, shuffle him back, Revelation into him and repeat it's an amazing piece of utility.
This. You draw your deck several times, until you feel like winning. It's why its called U/W Durdles.
Which turns into 4 life turn 5, 6 life turn 6, etc.
Burn decks generally win just barely by the time control gets online, and every incremental increase in life is a hell of a hurdle to get over.
Game 2 on the play you have a great chance to just goldfish.
URU/R TempoRU
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ur-counterburn-26-10-13-1/
Standard:
RBB/R MadnessBR
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-07-16-imI-br-vampires/
Caleb Durward:
Noticed that slightly, same again with this game - they're making it sound like Huey is super lucky to have staved off the attack, yet 10 turns ago they said "Oh, Huey has like a 90% shot of this game) which makes no sense.
It only has 2 win conditions in elspeth and aetherling. Well there is Also mutavault too but you can't expect a blow out early like an aggro or devotion deck that isn't black.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Check the coverage page on DailyMTG.com, top 8 should be up by now. It should also be under the Top 16 from GP Vienna last weekend.
I sleeved the deck up after I saw it last weekend, been playing it all week. It's really cool. Very nice to see it have success this weekend.
@Tanion: Huey isn't even running Aetherling, just the lone Elspeth. It's awesome.
It's current incarnation is. It's only actual hard win-con is Elspeth (And to an a different extent Jace), and the entire point is to grind the game to a hault making a position that is generally impossible to win against.
*That said* it's not unbeatable. It is very well positioned against many of the decks right now, particularly strong devotion decks that want to (Or need to) build up a board position to do anything at all. U/W control preys on slower formats like right now (It may seem like a lightning fast format at the moment, but that's only because the devotion decks explode hard; the build up right now is grindy as hell).
If there was a solid sligh type aggro deck that broke through, the UW deck would have been in a bit more trouble. A turn 4 verdict is rough, but definitely not impossible, to beat. Granted that Blind Obedience would hurt in that situation but it's only a 1-of in the sideboard and unless he has it in his opening hand the more straight forward aggro decks will wreck it.
Actually, Huey doesn't even run Aetherling, so he only has a single win condition in Elspeth, Sun's Champion. I was surprised when I first learned about this deck, but hey, I can't argue with those results!
Frankly I knew the games were over when the Red player didn't have much of a board state on turn 3, 4, and 5 even though Jenson didn't remove much at all by that point. Durdling against U/W is not where you want to be.
Yeah game 2 was pretty much a foregone conclusion after Carlos stalled on lands and couldn't even play his 2 drops because of Ratchet Bomb. If anything the commentators were just trying to make the game sound more exciting than it actually was.
I don't know, he left the door open to loose to the top deck, if he leaves an extra creature back he can still swing for lethal iirc next turn.
Well there is Jace if it ever ultimates, but that's generally not going to happen
I personally thought that Esper was a bit greedy with how few threats it ran, and was a tad surprised that Jensen's deck came out. That said, Elixir is a nice thing to see in a competitive environment and really goes to show that sometimes people need to re-evaluate a card's utility before dismissing it as junk. I saw something in the card way back in M13 when I started playing again, and every standard player said it was terrible. Certainly it's *limited* in scope, and U/W can win without it at all, but it also provides a nice safety net for a deck that is trying to have as much card-draw as humanly possible to get into their control. I don't expect it at all to be in every decklist in the format, but any deck running U/W for revelation should be evaluating it pretty highly right now as a strong maindeck possibility.
That said, this match-up will be boring. Not entirely certain who it favors. Blood Baron certainly poses a major problem, meaning that Jensen will keep in his Verdicts. Pack Rats, however, will draw those out early. Nightveil specter is extremely scary for Jensen, as it can lead to stealing away a lot of cards early on (Even lands would be painful to see go for Jensen). Thoughtseize and Duress have the ability to rip things out, and the person should be cognizant of how strong Elixir will be for Jensen if you just rip out Revelation.
Buuuut, it's a slow match up against a deck that like that. Blood Baron is a lot less scary when every revelation you put out makes it so that the Blood Baron just does nothing. Or you just never tap out once the opponent hits 5 mana, which is more likely.
Should be an "interesting" control match-up for those into that sort of thing. It's going to be long, though. Very long.
Even game 1 was over long before they seemingly thought it was. I've played Mono-red style decks for a very long while, and my old meta was chock full of U/W control. The deck actually hasn't changed a great deal post-Theros with the exception of Elspeth and some minor changes. By the time that a U/W player can leave open 6-7 mana a turn you've lost pretty much every time.
In reality, I'm not surprised that U/W control did so well in the format right now. As a meta call, it's wonderfully positioned. Mono-U, Mono-B, Mono-G, Red-Devotion, other control builds... all of these just need to build up some sort of board position to go off, which just gives you time to build up your resources without burning out of answers early on. And when they try to pull of anything, you can easily disrupt it. Given it's incredible consistency in draws, both due to sticking to 2 color and due to the incredible amount of card draw and cantrips it has, it can find the answer it needs fairly early.
Game 1 more or less is. Game 2 will be more interesting. With a full boat of Duress and Thoughtseize it'll be interesting. And, once again, I need to state how cognizant Marlon needs to be of Elixer. Ripping dissolves, verdicts, and Revs is pointless if he just gets them back eventually. At some point ripping an elixir could be the absolutely correct play over something like Elspeth or Revelation. You can answer everything you want, but if your opponent just gets it back you're screwed.