Mainly because Marlon didn't concede when Huey had the game completely locked up.
And I'm not saying he should have, especially in a top 8, but in normal circumstances players realize its over and move on to the next game.
There's reasons for that, really. He had the decklist available, so he knew what Jensen was playing, but what he didn't know was how Jensen plays. Drawing out the game like that gives you more knowledge of how the other player plays, are they a safe player or not, what they choose to discard off a rev, and decision making processes. There's more to the game than the cards themselves, and getting every bit of information off the opponent even in a complete loss situation is information you didn't have before. In fact, it's probably even more information than you'd gain than if you're winning. The fact that Jensen kept playing as though he had a chance to lose, even when there wasn't much of one at all, is invaluable to keen individual.
Hello, Rudy Fernandez here for ya.
So yes, I understand that what I did with the deck registration was my fault and the explanation behind it is that a friend of mine was talking about his old Jund list and listed off cards and said Garruk, Primal Hunter. This was during our deck registration and I, like an idiot, wrote that down. It was my carelessness for not catching it. Next, I understand that I was sloppy and misplayed a lot during my feature match. This was my first time day two-ing and was really nervous/excited that I was not thinking clearly (something I hope to rid myself of ASAP). If there is any criticism about my plays that you have, then please, tell me of them and I will do my best to defend my case. I know of a couple misplays I did, but I'm only hoping to get better. If there's any advice you have for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Frankly, it happens to every one of us at some point or another. I don't remember you match unfortunately, so I can't say where you faultered, but I completely understand the sentiment that mistakes are easily made in situations. Take it as a learning experience, learn from your mistakes, and ensure you don't do such a simple thing again. Particularly the decklist thing.
That said, I've found that if I'm concious of the game and take a step back from the moment it immediately improves my performance. A few weeks back I was playing my mono-red deck against a B/w devotion deck and was reaching an almost unwinnable spot. I correctly surmised the next few turns of my opponent's play due to knowing what they would have in the deck and figuring what *their* optimal plays would be, changed my plan accordingly, and ended up winning a game I probably shouldn't have if I had played normally. And frankly, I'm not that great of a player. It's just an anecdote of how taking your time helps immensely.
Of course, there are plenty of times where I rushed into things without thinking fully of what will happen. And those are the times I lose. And I've some pretty major mental mis-steps in play that were just plain beyond dumb.
So yep. Learn off your failures and your successes, a bad mistake is a valuable thing for the future if you remain cognizant of it.
No, but only because Gutierrez just barely stopped him. Jensen quickly moved the die from 4 to 2 on his Jace, Architect and I think his hand even touched the top of the deck before Marlon stopped him and corrected the game state.
Had Jensen revealed a card (or 3) off the top, would this have been an auto game loss?
Your misplay of forgetting Burning Tree before the other devotion 3 drop guys was most of it, along with some missed Experiment One triggers. People are just salty that some named player lost to you because you drew your outs. I thought they were some of the most exciting games in the whole coverage (aside from the game loss, of course).
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...the lack of power of Divining Top is similarly obvious.
Had Jensen revealed a card (or 3) off the top, would this have been an auto game loss?
I believe so. Due to both players being revealed information from a secret zone, there would be no way to actually return the game state prior to him doing it. And since he would have been responsible to know what was happening on the board to use Jace, he would have lost the game.
Marlon was very quick and very nice to point this out. I know plenty of players who would have let it happen.
Your misplay of forgetting Burning Tree before the other devotion 3 drop guys was most of it, along with some missed Experiment One triggers. People are just salty that some named player lost to you because you drew your outs. I thought they were some of the most exciting games in the whole coverage (aside from the game loss, of course).
Yah, i caught that myself right after it happened and i thought i had played BTE, that's why I only tapped two and got a game rule violation for Hunter. Then I did it right the next turn. also the Reverent Hunters can never evolve Experiment One because they enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then they check board state for devotion to add the counters. Since Evolve only triggers on entering the battlefield, Reverent Hunter enters as a 1/1 then gets big. Kibler backed me up on his Twitter account. And honestly, like I said, I was just very nervous, first day 2, doing well and I'm playing against someone I know of and I know that if I make a mistake, I won't be hearing the end of it at home. But yes, I will agree with you on how exciting the match was. Probably my most exciting match ever... well it does tie with my win over Christian Calcano round 12. Both are great players and i'm happy with the experience I gained from all my opponents.
Yah, i caught that myself right after it happened and i thought i had played BTE, that's why I only tapped two and got a game rule violation for Hunter. Then I did it right the next turn. also the Reverent Hunters can never evolve Experiment One because they enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then they check board state for devotion to add the counters. Since Evolve only triggers on entering the battlefield, Reverent Hunter enters as a 1/1 then gets big. Kibler backed me up on his Twitter account. And honestly, like I said, I was just very nervous, first day 2, doing well and I'm playing against someone I know of and I know that if I make a mistake, I won't be hearing the end of it at home. But yes, I will agree with you on how exciting the match was. Probably my most exciting match ever... well it does tie with my win over Christian Calcano round 12. Both are great players and i'm happy with the experience I gained from all my opponents.
How do you deal with the U/W or esper match ups. I haven't tested green devotion but it seems like the sweepers and revelations would lead to this being a tough match up
Hello, Rudy Fernandez here for ya.
So yes, I understand that what I did with the deck registration was my fault and the explanation behind it is that a friend of mine was talking about his old Jund list and listed off cards and said Garruk, Primal Hunter. This was during our deck registration and I, like an idiot, wrote that down. It was my carelessness for not catching it. Next, I understand that I was sloppy and misplayed a lot during my feature match. This was my first time day two-ing and was really nervous/excited that I was not thinking clearly (something I hope to rid myself of ASAP). If there is any criticism about my plays that you have, then please, tell me of them and I will do my best to defend my case. I know of a couple misplays I did, but I'm only hoping to get better. If there's any advice you have for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.
First and foremost: type the decklist into the registration sheet & print it out before you leave for the event. Deck/decklist problems are much harder to run into when the decklist is being cranked out when you're at home typing the list than they are trying to handwrite a last second list at the same time a friend is talking about last year's Standard. Not only does it nearly eliminate game losses for decklist problems, it reduces the work the judges have to do counting & verifying the list.
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Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
Your misplay of forgetting Burning Tree before the other devotion 3 drop guys was most of it, along with some missed Experiment One triggers. People are just salty that some named player lost to you because you drew your outs. I thought they were some of the most exciting games in the whole coverage (aside from the game loss, of course).
It always makes me laugh how when pro players draw their 1 of out left in the deck it is skill and they "set up" for that, but when other players do it they are "lucky noobs" who stole games away. It is just a laughable belief that always has me look at people and facepalm because I can't believe their idiotic logic.
I'm gonna have to agree with the above. Also though, some of magic is luck... people call it variance now but some of it just plain luck. Anyone tells you different is lying to you and themselves. SOME of it. It takes a lot of good decisions to get to the seat at the top 8 so it can't be all luck.
Though originally right on the first few sets of magic, the game was billed as "a game of luck and skill".
Rudy's game with the game loss, and subsequent win. . . he was winning the game when he received the loss imho.
Winning in spite of overwhelming odds against you like that? I think it was just "Due" I'd have hated to see "gameloss -> mana screw", but that happens.
But as someone here in Dallas right now, most people don't appreciate the GRIT of the people who came to this particular GP. Ice in north texas isn't prepared for like ice in the north texas. About 3-8 people have died on the ice out there so dealing with all that, plus the stress of playing like that.
You guys did great. I applaud you, if you're still in town, I'll buy you a beer.
Hello, Rudy Fernandez here for ya.
So yes, I understand that what I did with the deck registration was my fault and the explanation behind it is that a friend of mine was talking about his old Jund list and listed off cards and said Garruk, Primal Hunter. This was during our deck registration and I, like an idiot, wrote that down. It was my carelessness for not catching it. Next, I understand that I was sloppy and misplayed a lot during my feature match. This was my first time day two-ing and was really nervous/excited that I was not thinking clearly (something I hope to rid myself of ASAP). If there is any criticism about my plays that you have, then please, tell me of them and I will do my best to defend my case. I know of a couple misplays I did, but I'm only hoping to get better. If there's any advice you have for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Dude, congratulations on making it as far as you did, and don't sweat anything that gets said on the internet. It's easy to be a jerk online, and people take advantage of the anonymity. I loved watching your matchup. A local player I've known for 10+ years now has been playing Timmy Stompy (Mono Green) since Theros launched, and I know he was cheering you on when he saw the matchup. If you have a decklist to share, I know he'd be pumped to see one, although what I saw on camera already looked very similar to what he's been running already.
Good luck going forward.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
I'm gonna have to agree with the above. Also though, some of magic is luck... people call it variance now but some of it just plain luck. Anyone tells you different is lying to you and themselves. SOME of it. It takes a lot of good decisions to get to the seat at the top 8 so it can't be all luck.
Agreed. There is some luck involved in any card game, but there's a reason you consistently see the same players in Top 8's event after event. This goes for both Magic and the WSOP, and probably any other card game.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Rudy, I enjoyed watching your matches immensely. There were misplays from some of the most well-known pros around this weekend. Congrats and don't let anybody diminish your achievements!!
pre board, it's pretty tough unless I have an explosive turn 3 on the play and am able to get them to about 10 on turn 3 and then as turns go on I never put more than 7 power on the board. post board though I have the 2 Garruks for long game, 1 Boon Satyr, 1 Pithing Needle and 3 Mistcutter Hydra. You take out 4 Reverent, 2 Elvish Mystic and a Scavenging Ooze and start going into their slower game mode. I'm 20-2 against control (Esper and UW) and I hope to keep plus-ing.
Haha thank you (by the way, Rakdos is best guild). Going into game 3 I was actually very frustrated at myself since I had made such a simple mistake. I know people will be telling me that I probably shouldn't have won that match, but I was lucky. I mean he got his lock for getting a free game off me so I agree with you, luck is always a factor in the game in opinion.
And man was that ice brutal. I'm from Houston and we were lucky not to get any of that here. But on the way up, on my friend's leg of the drive in my car, he lost control and we slammed into a median wrecking my bumper ;_; but we still made the event right before the player's meeting. I appreciate your kindness and thank you again
Dude, congratulations on making it as far as you did, and don't sweat anything that gets said on the internet. It's easy to be a jerk online, and people take advantage of the anonymity. I loved watching your matchup. A local player I've known for 10+ years now has been playing Timmy Stompy (Mono Green) since Theros launched, and I know he was cheering you on when he saw the matchup. If you have a decklist to share, I know he'd be pumped to see one, although what I saw on camera already looked very similar to what he's been running already.
Good luck going forward.
Thank you very much ^_^. I was honestly sweating bullets when I went to one and I knew that I had a 3 in like... 48 card chance to draw my out so I managed to get lucky enough. Sure, I'll send you a list in a PM after this, I'd be happy to be helpful to those other decks and hopefully see an even better version of mine soon. I'm going to mull over what should go in off this experience and hopefully all us Timmy's will have a deck that we'll be satisfied with.
People saying he made a mistake by not evolving Experiment One should learn to read cards.
I get it though, if a card isn't on the top lists, it doesn't exist, right?
I will say it's a simplish mistake to make, as evolve does get tricky. However a cursory glance at Reverant Hunter should be a clue. It doesn't enter the battlefield with a number +1/+1 counters, such as with Kalonian Hydra, but instead gets them *after* it enters the battlefield. The wording, and general effect, is similar, but there are number of interactions that dramatically alter it. For instance, you could Quicken a Shrivel in response to the Reverant's ability triggering, thus killing it before the counters are ever put on. You could Pharika's Cure it as well, or Dimir Charm it. You could Electrickery it, or just burn it with anything. As it is a *triggered* ability, you have a brief window of opportunity and I think it's something many people miss.
Of course there is its interactions with Evolve, which are practically none at all due to this (It enters the battlefield as a 1/1, then it gets bigger; It doesn't get bigger when it enters the battlefield).
So yeah, people were a tad bit hasty in their claims and should have been a bit more patient and figured out how these things actually work.
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Mainly because Marlon didn't concede when Huey had the game completely locked up.
And I'm not saying he should have, especially in a top 8, but in normal circumstances players realize its over and move on to the next game.
There's reasons for that, really. He had the decklist available, so he knew what Jensen was playing, but what he didn't know was how Jensen plays. Drawing out the game like that gives you more knowledge of how the other player plays, are they a safe player or not, what they choose to discard off a rev, and decision making processes. There's more to the game than the cards themselves, and getting every bit of information off the opponent even in a complete loss situation is information you didn't have before. In fact, it's probably even more information than you'd gain than if you're winning. The fact that Jensen kept playing as though he had a chance to lose, even when there wasn't much of one at all, is invaluable to keen individual.
Frankly, it happens to every one of us at some point or another. I don't remember you match unfortunately, so I can't say where you faultered, but I completely understand the sentiment that mistakes are easily made in situations. Take it as a learning experience, learn from your mistakes, and ensure you don't do such a simple thing again. Particularly the decklist thing.
That said, I've found that if I'm concious of the game and take a step back from the moment it immediately improves my performance. A few weeks back I was playing my mono-red deck against a B/w devotion deck and was reaching an almost unwinnable spot. I correctly surmised the next few turns of my opponent's play due to knowing what they would have in the deck and figuring what *their* optimal plays would be, changed my plan accordingly, and ended up winning a game I probably shouldn't have if I had played normally. And frankly, I'm not that great of a player. It's just an anecdote of how taking your time helps immensely.
Of course, there are plenty of times where I rushed into things without thinking fully of what will happen. And those are the times I lose. And I've some pretty major mental mis-steps in play that were just plain beyond dumb.
So yep. Learn off your failures and your successes, a bad mistake is a valuable thing for the future if you remain cognizant of it.
Had Jensen revealed a card (or 3) off the top, would this have been an auto game loss?
Your misplay of forgetting Burning Tree before the other devotion 3 drop guys was most of it, along with some missed Experiment One triggers. People are just salty that some named player lost to you because you drew your outs. I thought they were some of the most exciting games in the whole coverage (aside from the game loss, of course).
I believe so. Due to both players being revealed information from a secret zone, there would be no way to actually return the game state prior to him doing it. And since he would have been responsible to know what was happening on the board to use Jace, he would have lost the game.
Marlon was very quick and very nice to point this out. I know plenty of players who would have let it happen.
Yah, i caught that myself right after it happened and i thought i had played BTE, that's why I only tapped two and got a game rule violation for Hunter. Then I did it right the next turn. also the Reverent Hunters can never evolve Experiment One because they enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then they check board state for devotion to add the counters. Since Evolve only triggers on entering the battlefield, Reverent Hunter enters as a 1/1 then gets big. Kibler backed me up on his Twitter account. And honestly, like I said, I was just very nervous, first day 2, doing well and I'm playing against someone I know of and I know that if I make a mistake, I won't be hearing the end of it at home. But yes, I will agree with you on how exciting the match was. Probably my most exciting match ever... well it does tie with my win over Christian Calcano round 12. Both are great players and i'm happy with the experience I gained from all my opponents.
How do you deal with the U/W or esper match ups. I haven't tested green devotion but it seems like the sweepers and revelations would lead to this being a tough match up
First and foremost: type the decklist into the registration sheet & print it out before you leave for the event. Deck/decklist problems are much harder to run into when the decklist is being cranked out when you're at home typing the list than they are trying to handwrite a last second list at the same time a friend is talking about last year's Standard. Not only does it nearly eliminate game losses for decklist problems, it reduces the work the judges have to do counting & verifying the list.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
It always makes me laugh how when pro players draw their 1 of out left in the deck it is skill and they "set up" for that, but when other players do it they are "lucky noobs" who stole games away. It is just a laughable belief that always has me look at people and facepalm because I can't believe their idiotic logic.
Though originally right on the first few sets of magic, the game was billed as "a game of luck and skill".
Rudy's game with the game loss, and subsequent win. . . he was winning the game when he received the loss imho.
Winning in spite of overwhelming odds against you like that? I think it was just "Due" I'd have hated to see "gameloss -> mana screw", but that happens.
But as someone here in Dallas right now, most people don't appreciate the GRIT of the people who came to this particular GP. Ice in north texas isn't prepared for like ice in the north texas. About 3-8 people have died on the ice out there so dealing with all that, plus the stress of playing like that.
You guys did great. I applaud you, if you're still in town, I'll buy you a beer.
Dude, congratulations on making it as far as you did, and don't sweat anything that gets said on the internet. It's easy to be a jerk online, and people take advantage of the anonymity. I loved watching your matchup. A local player I've known for 10+ years now has been playing Timmy Stompy (Mono Green) since Theros launched, and I know he was cheering you on when he saw the matchup. If you have a decklist to share, I know he'd be pumped to see one, although what I saw on camera already looked very similar to what he's been running already.
Good luck going forward.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Agreed. There is some luck involved in any card game, but there's a reason you consistently see the same players in Top 8's event after event. This goes for both Magic and the WSOP, and probably any other card game.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
And man was that ice brutal. I'm from Houston and we were lucky not to get any of that here. But on the way up, on my friend's leg of the drive in my car, he lost control and we slammed into a median wrecking my bumper ;_; but we still made the event right before the player's meeting. I appreciate your kindness and thank you again
Thank you very much ^_^. I was honestly sweating bullets when I went to one and I knew that I had a 3 in like... 48 card chance to draw my out so I managed to get lucky enough. Sure, I'll send you a list in a PM after this, I'd be happy to be helpful to those other decks and hopefully see an even better version of mine soon. I'm going to mull over what should go in off this experience and hopefully all us Timmy's will have a deck that we'll be satisfied with.
I get it though, if a card isn't on the top lists, it doesn't exist, right?
I will say it's a simplish mistake to make, as evolve does get tricky. However a cursory glance at Reverant Hunter should be a clue. It doesn't enter the battlefield with a number +1/+1 counters, such as with Kalonian Hydra, but instead gets them *after* it enters the battlefield. The wording, and general effect, is similar, but there are number of interactions that dramatically alter it. For instance, you could Quicken a Shrivel in response to the Reverant's ability triggering, thus killing it before the counters are ever put on. You could Pharika's Cure it as well, or Dimir Charm it. You could Electrickery it, or just burn it with anything. As it is a *triggered* ability, you have a brief window of opportunity and I think it's something many people miss.
Of course there is its interactions with Evolve, which are practically none at all due to this (It enters the battlefield as a 1/1, then it gets bigger; It doesn't get bigger when it enters the battlefield).
So yeah, people were a tad bit hasty in their claims and should have been a bit more patient and figured out how these things actually work.