Following the plan of adding 4 stormbreaths to the sb suggested by some, I was wondering how is easy is to have a 'transformation' sb between walekrs and monsters. Basically run stormbreaths/polukranos in sb, and morph the deck from a control version to a more midrange one when necessary, i.e., vs mono black (or splash blue for negate) devotion decks. At the very least it keeps the opposition guessing for 2nd and 3rd games . What do you guys think?
Added 3 Mystic, cutting the 25th land, one of my two Putrefy, and one of my two Golgari Charm. Sideboard got a face lift with -2 Underworld Connections and -3 Mistcutter Hydra for a Drown in Sorrow, +2 Anger of the Gods, a Magma Spray and a Duress.
Took this to an IQ and got 7th. Lost twice to Burn in the Swiss and once in the top 8. I saw Nylea's Disciples but were unable to ever get them for more than 2-3, once for 4. I was running 4 Disciple because the matchup can be so unwinnable. The Disciples didn't seem enough and insofar as they are gearing towards beating Courser post-board Disciple didn't last long. If I could play it again, I would cut the fourth Disciple for a Bow of Nylea which might be slow, but Rakdos's Return is an all star in putting the game to topdecks. I just don't know of a better option. I don't put enough creature in my yard to warrant Scavenging Ooze, perhaps Mystic would help in that regards, i.e., dying, but if they are running Searing Blood in their main I am cutting him in boarding. I haven't playtested the matchup all that often honestly. Maybe their adding Young Pyromancer might make him better in the matchup as both a clock and life gain.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
Went 1-3 at the 5k today. Don't remember what I played against but the deck had odd mana issues that never cropped up before. Only have one more FNM I can attend before rotation so I'm likely taking the deck apart in prep for that. It's been a good run!
Are you going to be neither planeswalker nor creature centric because Despise hits both? And for the last three months, Duress has been hitting planeswalkers as well.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
No but most of the jund planeswalker decks were running 12 creatures(4 courser, 8 mana dorks) whereas now with my deck, I run 19 creatures and 10 walkers so they have a choice, they can't just take away a walker and cripple me like before. I was only running 8 creatures in my jund deck, no mystic. So despise would have been really effective against my deck had it been legal. Also, to your point on duress, nobody had been playing that card very much in my meta so I was lucky to dodge it.
Now I'm not suggesting that people are going to start running despise, but it is a consideration to take in when building decks for new standard.
Despise will screw over this deck a lot. There will hardly ever be a time where you'd cast it and not grab something.
Trying to evaluate the viability of this deck post rotation. Losing Rakdos's Return is pretty tough, no good discard outlet and it was our only burn spell. Mizzium Mortars was very versatile, and black didn't pick up any uncommon 2CMC removal. I'm not really on the Murderous Cut bandwagon. I really don't care if it costs less to cast late game, Midrange's plan is to remove early and drop a big threat later on.
I'll probably run this or BUG/ Sultai. Hard to say at the moment. Want to run BG+something else.
Personally I'm still on the Jund wagon. Sure there is other decks I'm considering but I still wanna be playing stuff like caryatid, Courser, Thoughtseize, xenagos, Hero's Downfall, etc.
Here is a list I've been working with(this is the latest version I've crafted)
Why Stormbreath over Sarkhan? Because of the lack of Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm for Banishing Light? The problem is that the core of the deck wants to be GB and the planeswalkers are red and the majority cost double red. I think a singleton Garruk and a 2/2 split between Nissa and Sarkhan might be good. I'm curious if Extinguish All Hope might be better than the third Silence. I like the list, though. I'm not convinced that it is better than a different three color midrange/walkers build, but I like it.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
I don't like Nissa or sarkhan and ill explain why for both.
First is Nissa. Looking at it my guess is there will be polukranos and siege rhinos everywhere along with maybe seeing slight play from Reaper of the wilds all of which block 4/4 elementals and dont even trade with them. Nissa is good but through testing she either came out to slow or she just gets utter ended and I have to face down a siege rhino or watch my land grt blown up by a end hostilities.
Now sarkhan. Sure he can play removal but he'll just die most likely on a crack back and I can't lay multiples of him plus he can be banishing lighted and utter ended. Through testing you don't know how many times riding xenagos and sand bagging a dragon has just out right won me a game especially when I have two dragons in hand. Also let's not forget abzan charm is easily the most playable charm and removes a +1 sarkhan very well.
Not saying that these are bad cards I just feel the whole cramming Planeswalkers into a deck isn't as potent.
Garruk is good maybe even great but he begs for a control shell and 7 mana is alot when your wanting to be aggressive.
Extinguish all hope is intresting but I feel constellation will still be a thing despite back to nature being around. Silence is a very good card and having Downfall and blight to control the board abit makes it even better. Plus there is the fact it hits active gods and a +1 sarkhan.
turn 1 mystic allows so many things. deathdealer is good but might be reserved for a creature based list or a g/b rock list.
mystic allows you to dump your threats alot earlier and faster.
turn 3 dragon is gross especially is you turn 2 thoughtseize into caryatid its very hard to compete with that kind of efficiency or turn 3 xenagos up with a blocker in caryatid or mystic allows you to immediately get aggressive.
also feeds xenagos plus 1 to really get advantage off of silence the believers.
actually did more testing. have come to realize mystic actually isn't as good as once thought. super dead in opener if no quick threat plus thoughtseize can take the threat and make him dead still also super dead late. so here's new list i brewed up pretty good success so far and liking it alot.
Yeah, Mystic was always about ramping into Nissa. Which is where the deck wanted to be, a Monsters deck to avoid Lifebane Zombie. Not ramping into Nissa, or a Stormbreath, means you want to be on the kill everything plan and given how the removal has gotten worse, I don't think I would want to be on that route.
I like it. My issue though is i feel like sarkhan can be a trap if you let him be. I feel like he is slot better when supplemented with other 5 drops like Stormbreath, wing mate roc or even 4 drops like polukranos and Reaper. Bigger bodies that supplement his damage or defend him when the air is clear and the ground is clogged. I would rather just play Bile blight tgan Lightning strike if I feel I need more two drop removal ill go to it but I'd still rather play Bile blight. I think people are getting a little over excited about sarkhan. He is good but not great like a xenagos or a domri rade.
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Took this to an IQ and got 7th. Lost twice to Burn in the Swiss and once in the top 8. I saw Nylea's Disciples but were unable to ever get them for more than 2-3, once for 4. I was running 4 Disciple because the matchup can be so unwinnable. The Disciples didn't seem enough and insofar as they are gearing towards beating Courser post-board Disciple didn't last long. If I could play it again, I would cut the fourth Disciple for a Bow of Nylea which might be slow, but Rakdos's Return is an all star in putting the game to topdecks. I just don't know of a better option. I don't put enough creature in my yard to warrant Scavenging Ooze, perhaps Mystic would help in that regards, i.e., dying, but if they are running Searing Blood in their main I am cutting him in boarding. I haven't playtested the matchup all that often honestly. Maybe their adding Young Pyromancer might make him better in the matchup as both a clock and life gain.
(246-174-26)
(246-174-26)
2 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Plenty
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Genesis Hydra
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Nissa, Worldwaker
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
3 Elspeth, Sun’s Champion
1 Magma Jet
4 Banishing Light
(246-174-26)
Now I'm not suggesting that people are going to start running despise, but it is a consideration to take in when building decks for new standard.
(246-174-26)
Trying to evaluate the viability of this deck post rotation. Losing Rakdos's Return is pretty tough, no good discard outlet and it was our only burn spell. Mizzium Mortars was very versatile, and black didn't pick up any uncommon 2CMC removal. I'm not really on the Murderous Cut bandwagon. I really don't care if it costs less to cast late game, Midrange's plan is to remove early and drop a big threat later on.
I'll probably run this or BUG/ Sultai. Hard to say at the moment. Want to run BG+something else.
Here is a list I've been working with(this is the latest version I've crafted)
4 Sylvan caryatid
4 Courser of kruphix
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Silence the believers
2 Bile blight
4 Xenagos, the revler
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 read the bones
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Abandon
3 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mire
2 forest
2 mountain
2 swamp
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
2 Llanowar wastes
3 Anger of the gods
1 bow of nylea
2 arc lightning
4 despise
2 stain the mind
3 Mistcutter hydra
First is Nissa. Looking at it my guess is there will be polukranos and siege rhinos everywhere along with maybe seeing slight play from Reaper of the wilds all of which block 4/4 elementals and dont even trade with them. Nissa is good but through testing she either came out to slow or she just gets utter ended and I have to face down a siege rhino or watch my land grt blown up by a end hostilities.
Now sarkhan. Sure he can play removal but he'll just die most likely on a crack back and I can't lay multiples of him plus he can be banishing lighted and utter ended. Through testing you don't know how many times riding xenagos and sand bagging a dragon has just out right won me a game especially when I have two dragons in hand. Also let's not forget abzan charm is easily the most playable charm and removes a +1 sarkhan very well.
Not saying that these are bad cards I just feel the whole cramming Planeswalkers into a deck isn't as potent.
Garruk is good maybe even great but he begs for a control shell and 7 mana is alot when your wanting to be aggressive.
Extinguish all hope is intresting but I feel constellation will still be a thing despite back to nature being around. Silence is a very good card and having Downfall and blight to control the board abit makes it even better. Plus there is the fact it hits active gods and a +1 sarkhan.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
mystic allows you to dump your threats alot earlier and faster.
turn 3 dragon is gross especially is you turn 2 thoughtseize into caryatid its very hard to compete with that kind of efficiency or turn 3 xenagos up with a blocker in caryatid or mystic allows you to immediately get aggressive.
also feeds xenagos plus 1 to really get advantage off of silence the believers.
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Hero's downfall
3 Silence the believers
3 Bile Blight
2 Read the Bones
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Bow of Nylea
4 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Malice
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained mire
2 swamp
2 mountain
2 forest
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Arc Lighting
2 Stain the Mind
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Unravel the Aether
Matt Costa posted a list over on CFB: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/costa-success-the-lost-clans/
Heavier in planeswalkers then recent lists in this thread.