@ SirPsychoMantis-
Hey there, first post in here on this topic, I've been brewing and tuning Junk Whipanimator very heavily the past few weeks, I had to comment when I saw this. Since nobody else has said it yet, I thought it was obvious, but the answer to Blood Baron and/or Monstrous Fleecemane Lion(s) is, you should just not care about them, it really is that simple. Granted, I don't see a list in front of me that you're running, and these two cards are typically played in entirely different decks, but let's make some simple assumptions first, since you seem paranoid about these cards in a vacuum;
Monstrous Lion against you; the game has gone late.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa is a fairly mid-late game cast as well, the game is going to go late.
This is ultimately in your favor, as you have access to the whip, and your deck is set up (and tri-color for this reason) to abuse reanimation / casting more powerful cards. It will ultimately come down to your choice on what bombs you are running, and I like the 2-2-2-2 split of Angel of Serenity / Shadowborn Demon / Obzedat, Ghost Council / Armada Wurm. Between these 8 bombs though, if you do successfully make it to the late game, I'm convinced your game plan is to not care about either of these creatures, and proceed with just going over your opponent. Don't bring in reactive cheap garbage removal spells just for the "what if" scenario of oh noes they made a lion hexproof! It's still just a 4/4, your team is way bigger, or has the potential to be. Especially if you are running up to 8 dig spells, the chances are that you're going to end up pitching whatever instants/sorceries you bring in, unless you explicitly swap your dig spells out for hard removal. Devour Flesh is also not going to be ideal for you at all I don't think, against a G/W aggro deck, they are going to play a lot of other creatures as well, the last thing you want is an unreliable one for one kill spell, oh sure I'll sacrifice my Elvish Mystic or what have you. Devour is okay in a dedicated black based "control" or "rock" deck that is doing other things to keep the board clear, Devour by itself is just not conducive to the rest of your game plan. Same exact deal with Renounce the Guilds - we have maybe 2-3 spots for mainboard spot removal, and you absolutely want control over hitting the few things your deck cares about, namely Scavenging Ooze.
I'll give a recent example/story of how my deck actually interacted with both Blood Baron of Vizkopa and Fleecemane Lion, the TLDR version is that they were garbage against me.
I was playtesting my friend's Junk "rock" brew a few nights ago, he actually did play Fleecemane Lion and was convinced his Blood Barons would be "great against me", and he had way more removal spells in his deck. The game went late, we both had Whip of Erebos in play, lifelink racing each other with Obzedats, neither of us able to get an edge, and largely topdecking against each other. While he was reduced to using Read the Bones to try and find something relevant, I was using Grisly Salvage // Commune with the Gods to proactively get through my deck faster. I should also mention my friend had an earlyScavenging Ooze that successfully ate one of my Armada Wurms, and a subsequent one, but I did have Shadowborn Demon / Abrupt Decay for them before too much damage was done. So this match went very long, and I won't bore you with the rest of the details, but as soon as I was able to find a Trostani, Selesnya's Voice (1 of main, now a 2 of for me) in addition to my 4-of Voice of Resurgence main, I was easily able to just rebuild a bigger board, as my opponent was a deck trying to rely on 1-for-1 removal / mid sized creatures. Angel of Serenity was the MVP of the day, giving me absolute inevitable card advantage through any amount of 1 for 1 removal, especially since Sever the Bloodline is no longer a thing to worry about. I ended that game with over 200 life thanks to Trostani when she showed up.
Going forward, I just use that story to try and illustrate that your deck should, if set up like previous standard reanimator, granted we don't have Thragtusk anymore, but the strategy is the same, you just outlast whatever removal/creatures they throw at you. The simplest way I can break it all down, if you are able to outlast whatever early threats your opponent throws at you, you should have the ultimate inevitability when it comes down to a racing scenario, and you want the game to become a topdeck war.
Hey, thanks for the info. To be honest I've been playing a decent amount of Cockatrice with a few of my friends and haven't tried to really get into standard until now. It's hard to convince them to play some decks against mine since they are in brew-mode, so that's where the what-ifs come from. I've got a preliminary list I'm going to take to FNM next week to see how the meta is around here. I feel like I change my thoughts about the sideboard constantly, so it seems like maybe Abrupt Decays are the way to go for hitting those scoozes?
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Modern: Tezzeret
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Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
I've commented a few times on this as the deck looks like loads of fun and my testing has shown it to have some great plays.
I still don't get Grisly Salvage though. I love the card for the past rotation and in eternal formats but here I think it is just to risky in milling your reanimation spellsi nto the yard.
The response to this seems to have been 'add obzedat's aid' or 'add return from the underworld' but that is just adding more cards to minimise a liability of Grisly Salvage.
The poster above mentioned that in the long game they were able to grind out their opponent after eventually getting the card they needed to pull ahead. Why not just cut the Salvages and add Jarad's Orders, cut the excess reanimation spells and reduce the required number of fatties for a more streamlined suite of creatures and even leave space for a few removal spells.
My testing has shown it to be about the same speed - as reliable but much more flexible. The additional search along with the recursion of the Whip means this deck starts to feel a bit birthing pod like.
If you go for the search/toolbox approach, a 1 of Jarad Golgari Lichlord for the late game fling all of a suddon seems very appealing to me!
Anyway - just my 2 pence!
@Cindertide - I really like where your head is at, utilizing Jarad's Orders, and am in agreement with your overall sentiment. The (tentative) problem is, IMO, it comes down to tuning. The science of tuning last standard said that 4x Grisly Salvage / 3-4x Mulch with 3-4x Unburial Rites (3 Rites later into the season) was "correct". The thing is, every single little factor these cards have matters, because that was Junk's "engine" then - it also worked well that way thanks to 8 1 drop mana dorks. I think the last point there is really critical in context today too, I'm not sure that we can or should emulate the early game of "just dig for all the things", and thanks to Unburial Rites having flashback, oh cool I just hit the nutdraw T4 Angel of Serenity!
Do you have a decklist you can feasibly fit Jarad's Orders into right now? I'm not being skeptical here, I'm just genuinely curious if and when it will show up as the "industry standard" for new age Junk. If it's what the deck wants, we will see it being played at top tables, and I agree with you about Jarad, even as a one of on the board, great tech.
Let's also evaluate some pros/cons here;
-Grisly Salvage
Pros:
-Helps ensure you hit your land drops, and sometimes saves you when you'd otherwise be color screwed. This is of paramount importance early game IMO because of not having access to Mulch anymore, and having shakier manabases now/having to run more basics.
-Instant speed; this isn't hugely relevant, but once in a blue moon in the early game (since early turns matter more against aggro) you may be able to hold Doom Blade or Abrupt Decay mana open, whether you're bluffing or not, it is very clutch. Especially when Scavenging Ooze is on the other side of the table, the smart play is just don't loot yet, ignore the Ooze for now, play creatures the regular way.
Cons:
-GB mana cost, this is somewhat negligible, but you have to ask yourself how many shocks you eat on T2 just to cast this card, in the early game you are asking for more shocks unless your mana works perfectly with you. Worst case scenario, you won't have black early on, either way this con is somewhat alleviated by the fact that it helps you hit lands if needed. Grisly Salvage overall is a great mid game card, and perhaps an early game liability to some extent.
-Tosses Whip of Erebos or enchantments. This is the obvious con, and reason for exclusion in a lot of people's minds.
Cons:
-Not instant speed.
-Tosses lands that we may want (early game only concern).
With all of that in mind, let's take a critical look at Jarad's Orders, what angles do we give up for it, and what does it give us that we don't have already? This is why I stress and say that an exact list that wants it is in order, these intricacies can only then be fully realized, otherwise it's all good in theory only.
Speculation/more theory on top of theory, that might help said theory work;
I would also go a step further and mention, if going the "all in on digging" approach, it may be correct to include 1-2 Pharika's Mender in the deck, in case you Salvaged an enchantment you wanted.
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
@ SirPsychoMantis-
Hey there, first post in here on this topic, I've been brewing and tuning Junk Whipanimator very heavily the past few weeks, I had to comment when I saw this. Since nobody else has said it yet, I thought it was obvious, but the answer to Blood Baron and/or Monstrous Fleecemane Lion(s) is, you should just not care about them, it really is that simple. Granted, I don't see a list in front of me that you're running, and these two cards are typically played in entirely different decks, but let's make some simple assumptions first, since you seem paranoid about these cards in a vacuum;
Monstrous Lion against you; the game has gone late.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa is a fairly mid-late game cast as well, the game is going to go late.
This is ultimately in your favor, as you have access to the whip, and your deck is set up (and tri-color for this reason) to abuse reanimation / casting more powerful cards. It will ultimately come down to your choice on what bombs you are running, and I like the 2-2-2-2 split of Angel of Serenity / Shadowborn Demon / Obzedat, Ghost Council / Armada Wurm. Between these 8 bombs though, if you do successfully make it to the late game, I'm convinced your game plan is to not care about either of these creatures, and proceed with just going over your opponent. Don't bring in reactive cheap garbage removal spells just for the "what if" scenario of oh noes they made a lion hexproof! It's still just a 4/4, your team is way bigger, or has the potential to be. Especially if you are running up to 8 dig spells, the chances are that you're going to end up pitching whatever instants/sorceries you bring in, unless you explicitly swap your dig spells out for hard removal. Devour Flesh is also not going to be ideal for you at all I don't think, against a G/W aggro deck, they are going to play a lot of other creatures as well, the last thing you want is an unreliable one for one kill spell, oh sure I'll sacrifice my Elvish Mystic or what have you. Devour is okay in a dedicated black based "control" or "rock" deck that is doing other things to keep the board clear, Devour by itself is just not conducive to the rest of your game plan. Same exact deal with Renounce the Guilds - we have maybe 2-3 spots for mainboard spot removal, and you absolutely want control over hitting the few things your deck cares about, namely Scavenging Ooze.
I'll give a recent example/story of how my deck actually interacted with both Blood Baron of Vizkopa and Fleecemane Lion, the TLDR version is that they were garbage against me.
I was playtesting my friend's Junk "rock" brew a few nights ago, he actually did play Fleecemane Lion and was convinced his Blood Barons would be "great against me", and he had way more removal spells in his deck. The game went late, we both had Whip of Erebos in play, lifelink racing each other with Obzedats, neither of us able to get an edge, and largely topdecking against each other. While he was reduced to using Read the Bones to try and find something relevant, I was using Grisly Salvage // Commune with the Gods to proactively get through my deck faster. I should also mention my friend had an earlyScavenging Ooze that successfully ate one of my Armada Wurms, and a subsequent one, but I did have Shadowborn Demon / Abrupt Decay for them before too much damage was done. So this match went very long, and I won't bore you with the rest of the details, but as soon as I was able to find a Trostani, Selesnya's Voice (1 of main, now a 2 of for me) in addition to my 4-of Voice of Resurgence main, I was easily able to just rebuild a bigger board, as my opponent was a deck trying to rely on 1-for-1 removal / mid sized creatures. Angel of Serenity was the MVP of the day, giving me absolute inevitable card advantage through any amount of 1 for 1 removal, especially since Sever the Bloodline is no longer a thing to worry about. I ended that game with over 200 life thanks to Trostani when she showed up.
Going forward, I just use that story to try and illustrate that your deck should, if set up like previous standard reanimator, granted we don't have Thragtusk anymore, but the strategy is the same, you just outlast whatever removal/creatures they throw at you. The simplest way I can break it all down, if you are able to outlast whatever early threats your opponent throws at you, you should have the ultimate inevitability when it comes down to a racing scenario, and you want the game to become a topdeck war.
@Cassial; How would you deal with Detention Sphere atm?
I think going forward, all the top control decks I'm seeing are almost all running anywhere between 3-4 Detention Sphere in the mainboard. Not only does this stop us from utiliizing our main reanimation (Whip/Deadbridge) it can also exile creatures we want to play using those reanimation tools. The only thing I'm seeing is possibly Abrupt Decay which hits it, or Slaughter Games.
Also how are we going to deal with a resolved turn 6 Aetherling? Race it and hope for the best? I feel we are pretty much set against any aggro/midrange deck. I just don't know how we are going to deal with control having answers to everything we try to do.
Good stuff! I played GR midrange, Mono White aggro, UW aggro, Esper control, and some really bad Bant midrange. Wiped them all, but Mono-white proved to be insanely hard, 4-1 for the night, losing 2-0 to good ol White Weenies. Basically, how do we interact or survive when the first 5 turns of the game, you're not allowed to even block, and/or having shaky mana?
Maybe you weren't playing the same build of mono-white, but let me describe one of the strongest/hardest to survive curves I've seen yet in standard, Red has got absolutely nothing on white at the moment IMO;
Mono-White Weenie Rant;
T1: Soldier of the Pantheon, your Voice of Resurgence / Loxodon Smiters can't block me bro!
or T1: Boros Elite - meh, okay. Sort of stronger than Rakdos Cackler at least.
T2: Cavalry Pegasus - you might look at this and laugh at it and think it's draft jank until you find yourself near dead by T5 because your good ground creatures just couldn't block.
T2: Imposing Sovereign - oh yeah this guy, yeah, you're coming into play tapped, good luck with that blocking thing. Oh, people say this cards bad because it's bad in multiples? Don't care, run 4 of, you can't block us, profit-
T3: Banisher Priest - oh you managed to get a blocker that's now untapped, and/or not multicolored, and/or has Reach? Get it out of my way, thanks, keep swinging past for another 8 or so?
Activate Mutavault, gogo gadget Battalion! Oh, and it's a human and flies, too.
Perhaps I saw the most atrocious and brutal possible draws this deck was capable of, and my opponent is a friend and admitted he rarely does that, but it did feel like one of the most absolute beatings I've ever seen in a long time. I should also mentioned I dropped pretty much my entire top end curve, including a land, brought in a full 4x Unflinching Courage / +3x Glare of Heresy for him, and have 2x Abrupt Decay / 2 Hero's Downfall main. Too little too late, there's got to be a better way, I'm thinking this matchup you almost absolutely NEED Golgari Charm or some cheap sweeper (Infest) to make it remotely favorable, it seriously felt like I was playing against Bant Hexproof.
So, how close were your games with White Weenie, and/or what were the key cards in that matchup for you? I'm deathly afraid of running into it at states tomorrow, although they don't matchup well vs the rest of the field. They do however, murder slower midrange creature decks relying on early defense and are removal light, with seemingly many better ways to "get past" like RDW has, at the expense of direct burn/haste of course.
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
Good stuff! I played GR midrange, Mono White aggro, UW aggro, Esper control, and some really bad Bant midrange. Wiped them all, but Mono-white proved to be insanely hard, 4-1 for the night, losing 2-0 to good ol White Weenies. Basically, how do we interact or survive when the first 5 turns of the game, you're not allowed to even block, and/or having shaky mana?
Maybe you weren't playing the same build of mono-white, but let me describe one of the strongest/hardest to survive curves I've seen yet in standard, Red has got absolutely nothing on white at the moment IMO;
Mono-White Weenie Rant;
T1: Soldier of the Pantheon, your Voice of Resurgence / Loxodon Smiters can't block me bro!
or T1: Boros Elite - meh, okay. Sort of stronger than Rakdos Cackler at least.
T2: Cavalry Pegasus - you might look at this and laugh at it and think it's draft jank until you find yourself near dead by T5 because your good ground creatures just couldn't block.
T2: Imposing Sovereign - oh yeah this guy, yeah, you're coming into play tapped, good luck with that blocking thing. Oh, people say this cards bad because it's bad in multiples? Don't care, run 4 of, you can't block us, profit-
T3: Banisher Priest - oh you managed to get a blocker that's now untapped, and/or not multicolored, and/or has Reach? Get it out of my way, thanks, keep swinging past for another 8 or so?
Activate Mutavault, gogo gadget Battalion! Oh, and it's a human and flies, too.
Perhaps I saw the most atrocious and brutal possible draws this deck was capable of, and my opponent is a friend and admitted he rarely does that, but it did feel like one of the most absolute beatings I've ever seen in a long time. I should also mentioned I dropped pretty much my entire top end curve, including a land, brought in a full 4x Unflinching Courage / +3x Glare of Heresy for him, and have 2x Abrupt Decay / 2 Hero's Downfall main. Too little too late, there's got to be a better way, I'm thinking this matchup you almost absolutely NEED Golgari Charm or some cheap sweeper (Infest) to make it remotely favorable, it seriously felt like I was playing against Bant Hexproof.
So, how close were your games with White Weenie, and/or what were the key cards in that matchup for you? I'm deathly afraid of running into it at states tomorrow, although they don't matchup well vs the rest of the field. They do however, murder slower midrange creature decks relying on early defense and are removal light, with seemingly many better ways to "get past" like RDW has, at the expense of direct burn/haste of course.
The white weenie i played was a little more enchantment oriented but still had soldier of pantheon, frontline medic, hopeful eidelon and other stuff.
Basically against him i had a turn 2 caryatid both games into smiter and then t4 and t5 shadowborn followed by a whip and i just raced him.
Oh and for everyone wondering, Jarad is the real deal against control. He won me my post SB games against Esper with his Fling ability.
I became a huge fan of this deck idea once the interaction between Obzedat, Ghost Council and Whip of Erebos was clarified. Ghost dad being recurrable as many times as you can, plus getting haste out of the yard is huge. 4 mana for a 14 point life swing is nuts!!
@bluishgreen is the list that you piloted to 5-0 last night the same list that you posted earlier in the thread?
What do you guys think in add some cartel arist or Varolz , to sacrifice the creatures after the whip and keep using them next rounds?
Jarad lich lord would be great too
What do you guys think in add some cartel arist or Varolz , to sacrifice the creatures after the whip and keep using them next rounds?
Jarad lich lord would be great too
I tried Bluishs Build but i just cant ahndle Monored ofc its close but they just overrun me everytime control,midrange is very good mu but how you handle aggro and how you board for it?
Yeah, Dan's deck looked good. I also have a midrange build myself, but im waiting on my last thoughtseize before i play it.
There is a junk midrange thread here somewhere...this one is more all in on reanimator
How come you aren't running Obzedat, Ghost Council in your main? Don't get me wrong, 5-0 is still a good record. I just wonder if he would be the balancing factor against Big Red.
How come you aren't running Obzedat, Ghost Council in your main? Don't get me wrong, 5-0 is still a good record. I just wonder if he would be the balancing factor against Big Red.
I will probably move him to the main for states this weekend because it is looking to be control heavy down here.
In regards to obzedat helping vs mono red...i dont think a 5 drop is what youre looking for. Depending on your opening hand the matchup isnt terrible. You just have to trade with their guys up until they run out of gas.
Troll is really good vs them
I like to turn 1 mystic(i know this can seem sketch but it helps)
Either turn 2 caryatid, troll, smiter
Turn 3 either of the 3 above
Turn 4 shadowborn
Turn 5 whip and swing with demon to gain 5
Turn 6 sac demon to itself, then whip it back
Anyone thought of using a 1 of or sideboarding a single Sire of Insanity?
He's a pretty good whip target since he can swing in for 6 lifelink when he comes back, and if you stack the effects, he forces your opponent (probably a control deck) to toss their whole hand.
Hey, thanks for the info. To be honest I've been playing a decent amount of Cockatrice with a few of my friends and haven't tried to really get into standard until now. It's hard to convince them to play some decks against mine since they are in brew-mode, so that's where the what-ifs come from. I've got a preliminary list I'm going to take to FNM next week to see how the meta is around here. I feel like I change my thoughts about the sideboard constantly, so it seems like maybe Abrupt Decays are the way to go for hitting those scoozes?
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
@Cindertide - I really like where your head is at, utilizing Jarad's Orders, and am in agreement with your overall sentiment. The (tentative) problem is, IMO, it comes down to tuning. The science of tuning last standard said that 4x Grisly Salvage / 3-4x Mulch with 3-4x Unburial Rites (3 Rites later into the season) was "correct". The thing is, every single little factor these cards have matters, because that was Junk's "engine" then - it also worked well that way thanks to 8 1 drop mana dorks. I think the last point there is really critical in context today too, I'm not sure that we can or should emulate the early game of "just dig for all the things", and thanks to Unburial Rites having flashback, oh cool I just hit the nutdraw T4 Angel of Serenity!
Do you have a decklist you can feasibly fit Jarad's Orders into right now? I'm not being skeptical here, I'm just genuinely curious if and when it will show up as the "industry standard" for new age Junk. If it's what the deck wants, we will see it being played at top tables, and I agree with you about Jarad, even as a one of on the board, great tech.
Let's also evaluate some pros/cons here;
-Grisly Salvage
Pros:
-Helps ensure you hit your land drops, and sometimes saves you when you'd otherwise be color screwed. This is of paramount importance early game IMO because of not having access to Mulch anymore, and having shakier manabases now/having to run more basics.
-Instant speed; this isn't hugely relevant, but once in a blue moon in the early game (since early turns matter more against aggro) you may be able to hold Doom Blade or Abrupt Decay mana open, whether you're bluffing or not, it is very clutch. Especially when Scavenging Ooze is on the other side of the table, the smart play is just don't loot yet, ignore the Ooze for now, play creatures the regular way.
Cons:
-GB mana cost, this is somewhat negligible, but you have to ask yourself how many shocks you eat on T2 just to cast this card, in the early game you are asking for more shocks unless your mana works perfectly with you. Worst case scenario, you won't have black early on, either way this con is somewhat alleviated by the fact that it helps you hit lands if needed. Grisly Salvage overall is a great mid game card, and perhaps an early game liability to some extent.
-Tosses Whip of Erebos or enchantments. This is the obvious con, and reason for exclusion in a lot of people's minds.
Commune with the Gods:
Pros:
-Finds us our Whip of Erebos or other enchantment tech. Obvious pro.
-Easier on the mana.
Cons:
-Not instant speed.
-Tosses lands that we may want (early game only concern).
With all of that in mind, let's take a critical look at Jarad's Orders, what angles do we give up for it, and what does it give us that we don't have already? This is why I stress and say that an exact list that wants it is in order, these intricacies can only then be fully realized, otherwise it's all good in theory only.
Speculation/more theory on top of theory, that might help said theory work;
I would also go a step further and mention, if going the "all in on digging" approach, it may be correct to include 1-2 Pharika's Mender in the deck, in case you Salvaged an enchantment you wanted.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9157664&postcount=1
South Carolina State Champion: 2012
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
@Cassial; How would you deal with Detention Sphere atm?
I think going forward, all the top control decks I'm seeing are almost all running anywhere between 3-4 Detention Sphere in the mainboard. Not only does this stop us from utiliizing our main reanimation (Whip/Deadbridge) it can also exile creatures we want to play using those reanimation tools. The only thing I'm seeing is possibly Abrupt Decay which hits it, or Slaughter Games.
Also how are we going to deal with a resolved turn 6 Aetherling? Race it and hope for the best? I feel we are pretty much set against any aggro/midrange deck. I just don't know how we are going to deal with control having answers to everything we try to do.
Beat GW aggro, Esper control, UWR control, Mono white aggro, BW midrange
Good stuff! I played GR midrange, Mono White aggro, UW aggro, Esper control, and some really bad Bant midrange. Wiped them all, but Mono-white proved to be insanely hard, 4-1 for the night, losing 2-0 to good ol White Weenies. Basically, how do we interact or survive when the first 5 turns of the game, you're not allowed to even block, and/or having shaky mana?
Maybe you weren't playing the same build of mono-white, but let me describe one of the strongest/hardest to survive curves I've seen yet in standard, Red has got absolutely nothing on white at the moment IMO;
Mono-White Weenie Rant;
or T1: Boros Elite - meh, okay. Sort of stronger than Rakdos Cackler at least.
T2: Cavalry Pegasus - you might look at this and laugh at it and think it's draft jank until you find yourself near dead by T5 because your good ground creatures just couldn't block.
T2: Imposing Sovereign - oh yeah this guy, yeah, you're coming into play tapped, good luck with that blocking thing. Oh, people say this cards bad because it's bad in multiples? Don't care, run 4 of, you can't block us, profit-
T3: Banisher Priest - oh you managed to get a blocker that's now untapped, and/or not multicolored, and/or has Reach? Get it out of my way, thanks, keep swinging past for another 8 or so?
Activate Mutavault, gogo gadget Battalion! Oh, and it's a human and flies, too.
Perhaps I saw the most atrocious and brutal possible draws this deck was capable of, and my opponent is a friend and admitted he rarely does that, but it did feel like one of the most absolute beatings I've ever seen in a long time. I should also mentioned I dropped pretty much my entire top end curve, including a land, brought in a full 4x Unflinching Courage / +3x Glare of Heresy for him, and have 2x Abrupt Decay / 2 Hero's Downfall main. Too little too late, there's got to be a better way, I'm thinking this matchup you almost absolutely NEED Golgari Charm or some cheap sweeper (Infest) to make it remotely favorable, it seriously felt like I was playing against Bant Hexproof.
So, how close were your games with White Weenie, and/or what were the key cards in that matchup for you? I'm deathly afraid of running into it at states tomorrow, although they don't matchup well vs the rest of the field. They do however, murder slower midrange creature decks relying on early defense and are removal light, with seemingly many better ways to "get past" like RDW has, at the expense of direct burn/haste of course.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9157664&postcount=1
South Carolina State Champion: 2012
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
The white weenie i played was a little more enchantment oriented but still had soldier of pantheon, frontline medic, hopeful eidelon and other stuff.
Basically against him i had a turn 2 caryatid both games into smiter and then t4 and t5 shadowborn followed by a whip and i just raced him.
Oh and for everyone wondering, Jarad is the real deal against control. He won me my post SB games against Esper with his Fling ability.
@bluishgreen is the list that you piloted to 5-0 last night the same list that you posted earlier in the thread?
Unless it has changed, which it must have since Jarad isn't on this earlier list.
Basic 82: Hayate the Combat Butler Mafia
Town Doctor, NK N1
Mini: Drury Lane Mafia
Replaced out D1
Mafia "Stuffer"
Basic 80: Sesame Street Mafia
Town Mason, NK N1
Scum Victory
Basic 68: Mr. Potato Head Mafia
Replacing Marblez D2
Town Vanilla, Lynched Last Day (D6)
Scum Victory
Mini: Eeveelution Mafia
Town Umbreon, Modkilled D1
Scum Victory
Mini: Deitriptychos Mafia
Town Necromancer, NK N1
Town Victory
-1 selesnia Guildgate
-2 Abrupt Decay
-1 Lord of the Void
-1 Overlord
+1 grisly salvage
+1 Ashen Rider
+2 armada wurm
+1 temple of silence
sB changes were
-1 abrupt decay
+1 Jarad
I would cut a lifebane an courages for 3 centaur healers though
Ashen rider and sylvan primordial kills sphere
Jarad lich lord would be great too
It looks sharp - quite like it even though it's more midrange than reanimator - it obviously works well. The Whip + Obzedat is pretty much GG.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59699
Sac'd creatures are still exiled.
Basic 82: Hayate the Combat Butler Mafia
Town Doctor, NK N1
Mini: Drury Lane Mafia
Replaced out D1
Mafia "Stuffer"
Basic 80: Sesame Street Mafia
Town Mason, NK N1
Scum Victory
Basic 68: Mr. Potato Head Mafia
Replacing Marblez D2
Town Vanilla, Lynched Last Day (D6)
Scum Victory
Mini: Eeveelution Mafia
Town Umbreon, Modkilled D1
Scum Victory
Mini: Deitriptychos Mafia
Town Necromancer, NK N1
Town Victory
Is that with this list that you posted earlier? Were their updates?
If you've made changes, can you post an updated decklist?
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
He posted his updates already....
Blarg, my bad. My eyes skimmed over it likely because it wasn't a tagged decklist. Thanks!
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Yeah, Dan's deck looked good. I also have a midrange build myself, but im waiting on my last thoughtseize before i play it.
There is a junk midrange thread here somewhere...this one is more all in on reanimator
To help vs MonoRed use Fog effects (even Riot Control) from the board.
currently playing:
Standard
UW Control
UWB Control
UB Control
MODERN
BRGJund
X Affinity
UWR Control
LEGACY
Dredge
R Burn
UWx Miracles
EDH
BRW Kaalia
______
Quotes:
My Magic Card nicknames.
I have yet to play against mono R.
That is why im adding centaur healers to the SB
How come you aren't running Obzedat, Ghost Council in your main? Don't get me wrong, 5-0 is still a good record. I just wonder if he would be the balancing factor against Big Red.
I will probably move him to the main for states this weekend because it is looking to be control heavy down here.
In regards to obzedat helping vs mono red...i dont think a 5 drop is what youre looking for. Depending on your opening hand the matchup isnt terrible. You just have to trade with their guys up until they run out of gas.
Troll is really good vs them
I like to turn 1 mystic(i know this can seem sketch but it helps)
Either turn 2 caryatid, troll, smiter
Turn 3 either of the 3 above
Turn 4 shadowborn
Turn 5 whip and swing with demon to gain 5
Turn 6 sac demon to itself, then whip it back
It is pretty hard for them to deal with that
He's a pretty good whip target since he can swing in for 6 lifelink when he comes back, and if you stack the effects, he forces your opponent (probably a control deck) to toss their whole hand.
Anyways
This is probably the list ill be playing at states this weekend
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Loxoden Smiter
4x Shadowborn Demon
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Armada Wurm
2x Ashen Rider
4x Grisly Salvage
4x Commune with the Gods
3x Whip of Erebos
4x Temple Garden
4x Godless Shrine
3x Temple of Silence
2x Golgari Guildgate
3x Forest
3x Swamp
4x Centaur Healer
4x Sin Collector
2x Underworld Connections
2x Angel of Serenity
2x Sylvan Primordial
1x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord