my Apologies for intruding Last time I played any reanimator type deck was back in Weatherlight with Buried Alive. But I am interested because of the cool possibilities. Here's my thoughts on the current topic about Primordial, Ashen Rider, Angel...
I love Ashen Rider! He's a bad ass with wings who exiles a target coming into the battlefield and leaving the battlefield, including land. Primordial is non-creature which could hurt if you really need something an opponent has off the board, and Angel just returns the exiled stuff back to their owners hands for recasting, if they even have an answer for her.
Shadowborn Demon has his own little drawback of only hitting creatures, but he is easily a hard cast on turn 5 without any accelerates. Armada Wurm provides two beefy wurms for your opponent to tend to, and is also a card to be hard cast if needed. So much stuff to chose from... I do agree with BBD in his article that Rescue from the Underworld may be an alternate use of reanimating.
I have a couple other projects im working on, but will poke my nose in from time to time. So much Magic, So little Time!
Has anyone tried more of a jund rock reanimate style of deck? I just imagine that anger of the gods tearing b-holes up and borgrygmos (or however you say his name) being devastating with life link.
What does everyone think of playing Deadbridge Chant in this build? It's slower, but the meta slowed down and if you're using Deathrite Shaman you can actually filter your graveyard so you will only pull cards out of your graveyard that you want to.
Commune with the Gods also allows you to pull the enchantment out if you can't get it when you have the mana to spare to put it into play. It's basically an extra free draw every turn at it's worst, and at it's best, it puts your Ashen Rider into to play for you and is uncounterable.
So far, I could see problems with stuff like Detention Sphere getting so much play, so I sideboarded Slaughter Games and Pithing Needle (for stuff like Scavenging Ooze or other Graveyard Hate).
Underworld Cerberus might be something you guys are questioning looking at it since it seems to counteract what our deck is trying to do. However, I think it's great sideboard material. If your opponent is running anything to try to shut down your graveyard you can drop an Underworld Cerberus to make all graveyards untouchable (this is especially helpful vs control decks who won't have many if any creatures in their graveyard). Note, this DOES work with Deadbridge Chant as it doesn't directly target any graveyard. If you want if they try to exile the cerberus to stop the trigger from going off you can play Hero's Downfall on him to kill him directly, this will cause his trigger to go off and you can get all your critters back.
Obzedat is great when played with a Whip, however he is susceptible to Glare of Heresy.
What do you guys think are the best fatties to play using a reanimator deck now that Resto Angel/Thragtusk is gone?
Sylvan Primordial, Ashen Rider, Angel of Serenity, Shadowborn Demon, Armada Wurm, is there really much else? My only fear atm is losing all that lifegain from Thragtusk, which is why I'm really keen on playing Deathrite Shaman over Scooze.
Your playing 4 colors? Splashing Red basically for a card in the sideboard. Hmm. Anyways, Obzedat shouldn't be hit by Glare of Heresy since it's a sorcery. I think having 4 Obzedat's Aid MD is too much reanimation - yes, I know we miss Unburial Rites. Just up the whip to a 3-of and I think that's fine. What else - not really a fan of it being a 4c build sorry!
Deathrite shaman is not for this deck, even with chant. Run scavenging ooze as it will clean out your graveyard quicker. Even still...chant is too slow.
And stuff has not slowed down...im pretty sure mono red just won last weekend.
Deathrite shaman is not for this deck, even with chant. Run scavenging ooze as it will clean out your graveyard quicker. Even still...chant is too slow.
And stuff has not slowed down...im pretty sure mono red just won last weekend.
mono red won last week, but not until turn 6-8 both games I'm pretty sure. Not to mention the person he played against got mana screwed one game, and the other game I'm pretty sure he mana flooded. It really wasn't even much of a match.
Running reanimator with scavenging ooze around is going to have to be slower or they'll just munch any cards you actually want out of your graveyard. This basically says "Run Underworld Cerberus".
One of the reasons Reanimator fell off is because of graveyard hate being far easier and far more efficient and being played in almost any deck that runs green. The only way to get around that is to stop the Scavenging Ooze, if you try to whip anything out of the graveyard they'll just use that one green they saved and eat it in response.
If you actually plan on playing full reanimator and not just a high mana cost fatty deck with some hopeful graveyard shenanigans you need some way of stopping the Ooze. I personally feel like you guys rely on whip too much, it gives you a creature for a singular turn and then you can't reanimate it again afterwards. If you're playing Whip you'd have to run only creatures which can stay around on the field afterwards. For instance, Obzedat, Armada Wurm, and I think a couple others, and you can MAYBE supplement with creatures whose enters/leaves the battlefield effects are strong enough.
I don't think relying on hard-casting a 5 drop (that you only have 2 of, while they have anywhere between 3-4 Oozes) and then being forced to sacrifice it next turn because your opponent munched any other creatures you put in that graveyard just to kill a 2 drop Scavenging Ooze is much of a game plan...
I run 4 demons and have zero problems dealing with a scavenging ooze which is the only card that can hurt this deck.
And its very easy to cast on turn 3 when you have ramp spells.
@BluishGreen1.8T What list are you running? I searched page 3 where you said you had posted it but I cannot find it anywhere, given you states wonderful things about your deck like it has no mana problems or issues with Ooze, but I don't really know about just "taking your word" for it w/o testing it myself.
I think you're forgetting Detention Sphere which is a 4 of in just about all control decks right now, along with Rest In Peace which isn't getting sideboarded since Reanimator hasn't seen tournament play in quite some time, but might if it shows a resurgence.
Even in that SCG post by BBD he states that Whip was not nearly as good as he thought it would be for reanimation, he said it really wasn't doing much outside of the lifelink because you don't simply have 4 mana to spend every turn on getting a creature back for a single turn.
I'm thinking of making more of a midrange/ramp/reanimate deck using red instead of white, removing Obzedat's Aid and some of the white creatures for things like Sire of Insanity, Underworld Cerberus, and Rurik Thar/Master of Cruelties. Then using Deadbridge Chant and graveyard filtering to get inevitability out of it.
I do agree with you that Shadowborn Demon can be really good, I'm just really skeptical about doing this deck with Scavenging Ooze around and people possibly sideboarding like 1/2 Rest in Peace.
There were 0 RIPs in any sideboards from last weekend
Also most control decks ran 2 d spheres main which shouldnt be a problem game 1.
I dont have cockatrice right now so i just have personal test results and against any aggro deck a resolved whip is game over and naturally control is a grind
Hm, changed everything up a little, I don't agree with playing Abhorrent Overlord, especially when using the Whip given you might not have the devotion to black to have him be worth it, 4 1/1 Harpies is just "aight" for an ETB effect.
Lots of mana ramp, had to cut one Lotleth Troll which I'm still unsure about doing, I kind of want to put him back in, but have no idea on what I would cut to do so given I'm already running less fatties than pre-rotation Junk Reanimator did. Having access to two different kinds of reanimation and recursion makes it a bit more difficult to play around for your opponents. I feel they both come down around the same time, and Deadbridge mills you 10 which actually ends up helping the Whip giving it access to more creatures. I think the difference between 3 Whips and 2 is going to be minimal.
I will say that overlord and getting 4 1/1 flying lifelinkers in a world with out thundermaw or any other relevant fliers for that matter is pretty darn good and noone can ever deal with them.
I still think chant is too slow and sideboard at best. When you mill your whips against an aggro deck its not going to be pretty.
To each their own. I like armada wurm just not 100% sold on him yet
-Went back to Elvish Mystic instead of Deathrite Shaman. I really value the consistent mana generation over the slight reach the shaman gives me. Still not 100% on it, but I've felt the deck is a little smoother with the Mystic
-Not a fan of Deadbridge Chant unless you're dedicating a lot of slots to mill through the waste that it gives you. I'd rather have Rescue from the Underworld. Saccing an elf to bring back an abhorrent overlord or an ashen rider is pretty cool.
-Loxodon smiter is a very nice 3 drop instead of lifebane zombie. 4/4 for 3 is a pretty nice wall. I practically ended a game with a 6/5 troll and the 4/4 loxodon on its own very early against a control deck. LBZ can probably still be a better card against green decks, but i definitely prefer the big wall.
-I still enjoy the 4/3/2 reanimation suite. You just get a lot of options and potential starting hands. Obzedat's aid has been a very sick card and it's an awesome top deck late game.
Overall i feel like the deck is still missing something that keeps it more consistent but i'm slowly working towards it. I still don't have a sideboard yet.
-Went back to Elvish Mystic instead of Deathrite Shaman. I really value the consistent mana generation over the slight reach the shaman gives me. Still not 100% on it, but I've felt the deck is a little smoother with the Mystic
-Not a fan of Deadbridge Chant unless you're dedicating a lot of slots to mill through the waste that it gives you. I'd rather have Rescue from the Underworld. Saccing an elf to bring back an abhorrent overlord or an ashen rider is pretty cool.
-Loxodon smiter is a very nice 3 drop instead of lifebane zombie. 4/4 for 3 is a pretty nice wall. I practically ended a game with a 6/5 troll and the 4/4 loxodon on its own very early against a control deck. LBZ can probably still be a better card against green decks, but i definitely prefer the big wall.
-I still enjoy the 4/3/2 reanimation suite. You just get a lot of options and potential starting hands. Obzedat's aid has been a very sick card and it's an awesome top deck late game.
Overall i feel like the deck is still missing something that keeps it more consistent but i'm slowly working towards it. I still don't have a sideboard yet.
I also went to Elvish Mystic, in my playtesting I would say 90% of the time I wanted shaman for mana generation more than anything else.
I think lifebane vs loxdon can both be either sideboard or main in the same slot, depending on your meta which one you want where. Even if lifebane ETB fizzles, a 3 power unblockable with the whip out keeps you going. Lifebane only feels really bad against RDW where shock or magma jet easily takes it out. I'm keeping lifebane in main and loxdon in the side.
Everyone seems to have their own tweaks on the reanimation suite, I'm sticking with 3/3/2. With the whip being legendary and a valid target for Commune, I feel that 4 has too much of a chance of being a dead card in hand.
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I will say that overlord and getting 4 1/1 flying lifelinkers in a world with out thundermaw or any other relevant fliers for that matter is pretty darn good and noone can ever deal with them.
I still think chant is too slow and sideboard at best. When you mill your whips against an aggro deck its not going to be pretty.
To each their own. I like armada wurm just not 100% sold on him yet
I'm thinking of changing to 3 Aid/2 Whip/1 Deadbridge. Deadbridge gives inevitability if they can't take it off the board. It brings back any things that you wanted to not put in the graveyard like Whips, Obzedat's Aid, etc. You can also use Obzedat's Aid to stick Deadbridge from the graveyard onto the battlefield itself.
I think Obzedat's Aid is the closest thing we have to Unburial Rites at the moment and Deadbridge gives us a sort of mini-ish flashback to all our spells and creatures in the late-game. It might be more tedious on mana, but it can bring back any permanent you want and stick it to the battlefield. Aid a whip onto the field, then whip something in. Or mill an aid, deadbridge it back into your hand, aid a fatty. They all sort of synergize with one another.
Having Aid with Deadbridge is good, having Deadbridge/Aid with Whip is good, having Whip with Deadbridge is good, having Whip with Aid is good; this is because all can affect one another. Whip benefits from you milling good creatures away, which Deadbridge does. Whip also needs to have a way of getting back onto the battlefield via Deadbridge/Aid.
I think relying on NOT milling your whips is more dangerous can possibly milling them, but having ways to bring them back.
Personally I feel Stormbreath Dragon and Chandra's Phoenix are both pretty relevant fliers along with Prognostic Sphinx to a lesser extent. Although you can chump-block all those with the 1/1's to buy you time, you won't really get any damage in with them, maybe if they were 1/2's or 2/1's I think Overlord would have been an amazing game finisher.
I'm only including Armada Wurm because you can keep the token even if you whip him in or if he dies. Armada Wurm in a world of Thragtusk sucked because the 5/5 got eaten by by a 5/3 and left his 3/3 little brother around, and Thraggie got the other person life. Now that Thraggie is gone, I think Wurm should be much better.
What does everyone think of Kalonian Hydra when used with the Whip?
Dies to instant speed removal without any proper effect, but he's still a threat.
Whip gives haste, so you whip it back, swing for 8/8 trample damage, and double the counters on your Lotleth Trolls. I don't know if it's worth it to play him over any of the other fatties, but he'd be pretty interesting to hardcast, force the removal, then Whip or Deadbridge or Ob's Aid it back.
Could be meh and easy to hardcast but it seems kinda bland
Ive actually been thinking of running a Jarad or 2 to fling the guys after theyve been whipped back. You can almost never get it exiled and you can always bring him back to hand late game
Could be meh and easy to hardcast but it seems kinda bland
Ive actually been thinking of running a Jarad or 2 to fling the guys after theyve been whipped back. You can almost never get it exiled and you can always bring him back to hand late game
I love the idea of flinging whipped guys, but that's 7 mana to do it. I'm not sure how often that opportunity would really pop up, maybe sideboard for slower matches? I'd evaluate the card assuming we don't get that interaction and see it as a bonus.
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I can also already forsee a problem running this deck if Blood Baron of Vizkopa becomes popular.
There's almost nothing in our deck that hits him other than Sylvan Primordial and landing a Lifebane Zombie on it before it gets cast.
And managing to have 7 mana up to tap out to summon, swing, and fling; It seems like a really, really good combo. But it requires too much in my mind. The goal when building a standard deck is to have a lot of synergy in your deck, but the cards each individually have to be good just in case that synergy never happens.
Jarad seems to run into this issue with me where he is only good with synergy, he's not very good by himself unless you have a ton of creatures in your graveyard where he turns into a big beater which is just "meh".
I personally was just thinking of running him in the SB for control matchups bc you will get to the lategame and have 7 lands out.
Just throwing stuff out there.
I could see this possibly working late against control, hes a recurring threat late game with the situational land saccing.
As for Blood Baron, I think 3-4 either Devour Flesh and / or Renounce the Guilds in the sideboard to stop him and any other pesky hexproof targets like a huge fleecemane in an enchantment deck, as well as some extra power to nail a turn 2 scooze. To also hit scooze I'm leaning towards devour flesh. Any thoughts on this?
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I stepped into this thread thinking about whip...and I'm actually kinda sad to see that this deck is JUST AS GOOD AS IT WAS BEFORE! OMG. . . shake my head.
Shennaigans WOTC
I could see this possibly working late against control, hes a recurring threat late game with the situational land saccing.
As for Blood Baron, I think 3-4 either Devour Flesh and / or Renounce the Guilds in the sideboard to stop him and any other pesky hexproof targets like a huge fleecemane in an enchantment deck, as well as some extra power to nail a turn 2 scooze. To also hit scooze I'm leaning towards devour flesh. Any thoughts on this?
@ SirPsychoMantis-
Hey there, first post in here on this topic, I've been brewing and tuning Junk Whipanimator very heavily the past few weeks, I had to comment when I saw this. Since nobody else has said it yet, I thought it was obvious, but the answer to Blood Baron and/or Monstrous Fleecemane Lion(s) is, you should just not care about them, it really is that simple. Granted, I don't see a list in front of me that you're running, and these two cards are typically played in entirely different decks, but let's make some simple assumptions first, since you seem paranoid about these cards in a vacuum;
Monstrous Lion against you; the game has gone late.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa is a fairly mid-late game cast as well, the game is going to go late.
This is ultimately in your favor, as you have access to the whip, and your deck is set up (and tri-color for this reason) to abuse reanimation / casting more powerful cards. It will ultimately come down to your choice on what bombs you are running, and I like the 2-2-2-2 split of Angel of Serenity / Shadowborn Demon / Obzedat, Ghost Council / Armada Wurm. Between these 8 bombs though, if you do successfully make it to the late game, I'm convinced your game plan is to not care about either of these creatures, and proceed with just going over your opponent. Don't bring in reactive cheap garbage removal spells just for the "what if" scenario of oh noes they made a lion hexproof! It's still just a 4/4, your team is way bigger, or has the potential to be. Especially if you are running up to 8 dig spells, the chances are that you're going to end up pitching whatever instants/sorceries you bring in, unless you explicitly swap your dig spells out for hard removal. Devour Flesh is also not going to be ideal for you at all I don't think, against a G/W aggro deck, they are going to play a lot of other creatures as well, the last thing you want is an unreliable one for one kill spell, oh sure I'll sacrifice my Elvish Mystic or what have you. Devour is okay in a dedicated black based "control" or "rock" deck that is doing other things to keep the board clear, Devour by itself is just not conducive to the rest of your game plan. Same exact deal with Renounce the Guilds - we have maybe 2-3 spots for mainboard spot removal, and you absolutely want control over hitting the few things your deck cares about, namely Scavenging Ooze.
I'll give a recent example/story of how my deck actually interacted with both Blood Baron of Vizkopa and Fleecemane Lion, the TLDR version is that they were garbage against me.
I was playtesting my friend's Junk "rock" brew a few nights ago, he actually did play Fleecemane Lion and was convinced his Blood Barons would be "great against me", and he had way more removal spells in his deck. The game went late, we both had Whip of Erebos in play, lifelink racing each other with Obzedats, neither of us able to get an edge, and largely topdecking against each other. While he was reduced to using Read the Bones to try and find something relevant, I was using Grisly Salvage // Commune with the Gods to proactively get through my deck faster. I should also mention my friend had an earlyScavenging Ooze that successfully ate one of my Armada Wurms, and a subsequent one, but I did have Shadowborn Demon / Abrupt Decay for them before too much damage was done. So this match went very long, and I won't bore you with the rest of the details, but as soon as I was able to find a Trostani, Selesnya's Voice (1 of main, now a 2 of for me) in addition to my 4-of Voice of Resurgence main, I was easily able to just rebuild a bigger board, as my opponent was a deck trying to rely on 1-for-1 removal / mid sized creatures. Angel of Serenity was the MVP of the day, giving me absolute inevitable card advantage through any amount of 1 for 1 removal, especially since Sever the Bloodline is no longer a thing to worry about. I ended that game with over 200 life thanks to Trostani when she showed up.
Going forward, I just use that story to try and illustrate that your deck should, if set up like previous standard reanimator, granted we don't have Thragtusk anymore, but the strategy is the same, you just outlast whatever removal/creatures they throw at you. The simplest way I can break it all down, if you are able to outlast whatever early threats your opponent throws at you, you should have the ultimate inevitability when it comes down to a racing scenario, and you want the game to become a topdeck war.
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
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I love Ashen Rider! He's a bad ass with wings who exiles a target coming into the battlefield and leaving the battlefield, including land. Primordial is non-creature which could hurt if you really need something an opponent has off the board, and Angel just returns the exiled stuff back to their owners hands for recasting, if they even have an answer for her.
Shadowborn Demon has his own little drawback of only hitting creatures, but he is easily a hard cast on turn 5 without any accelerates. Armada Wurm provides two beefy wurms for your opponent to tend to, and is also a card to be hard cast if needed. So much stuff to chose from... I do agree with BBD in his article that Rescue from the Underworld may be an alternate use of reanimating.
I have a couple other projects im working on, but will poke my nose in from time to time. So much Magic, So little Time!
Shadowborn demon is great against mid/aggro decks to keep creatures in check
Commune with the Gods also allows you to pull the enchantment out if you can't get it when you have the mana to spare to put it into play. It's basically an extra free draw every turn at it's worst, and at it's best, it puts your Ashen Rider into to play for you and is uncounterable.
So far, I could see problems with stuff like Detention Sphere getting so much play, so I sideboarded Slaughter Games and Pithing Needle (for stuff like Scavenging Ooze or other Graveyard Hate).
My decklist as it stands right now:
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple Garden
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
2 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Silence
4 Forest
Creatures:
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Lotleth Troll
2 Shadowborn Demon
2 Armada Wurm
2 Angel of Serenity
1 Ashen Rider
4 Obzedat's Aid
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Commune with the Gods
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Doom Blade
Other Spells:
2 Deadbridge Chant
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Slaughter Games
1 Putrefy
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Sin Collector
1 Pithing Needle
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Underworld Cerberus
Underworld Cerberus might be something you guys are questioning looking at it since it seems to counteract what our deck is trying to do. However, I think it's great sideboard material. If your opponent is running anything to try to shut down your graveyard you can drop an Underworld Cerberus to make all graveyards untouchable (this is especially helpful vs control decks who won't have many if any creatures in their graveyard). Note, this DOES work with Deadbridge Chant as it doesn't directly target any graveyard. If you want if they try to exile the cerberus to stop the trigger from going off you can play Hero's Downfall on him to kill him directly, this will cause his trigger to go off and you can get all your critters back.
Obzedat is great when played with a Whip, however he is susceptible to Glare of Heresy.
What do you guys think are the best fatties to play using a reanimator deck now that Resto Angel/Thragtusk is gone?
Sylvan Primordial, Ashen Rider, Angel of Serenity, Shadowborn Demon, Armada Wurm, is there really much else? My only fear atm is losing all that lifegain from Thragtusk, which is why I'm really keen on playing Deathrite Shaman over Scooze.
And stuff has not slowed down...im pretty sure mono red just won last weekend.
mono red won last week, but not until turn 6-8 both games I'm pretty sure. Not to mention the person he played against got mana screwed one game, and the other game I'm pretty sure he mana flooded. It really wasn't even much of a match.
Running reanimator with scavenging ooze around is going to have to be slower or they'll just munch any cards you actually want out of your graveyard. This basically says "Run Underworld Cerberus".
One of the reasons Reanimator fell off is because of graveyard hate being far easier and far more efficient and being played in almost any deck that runs green. The only way to get around that is to stop the Scavenging Ooze, if you try to whip anything out of the graveyard they'll just use that one green they saved and eat it in response.
If you actually plan on playing full reanimator and not just a high mana cost fatty deck with some hopeful graveyard shenanigans you need some way of stopping the Ooze. I personally feel like you guys rely on whip too much, it gives you a creature for a singular turn and then you can't reanimate it again afterwards. If you're playing Whip you'd have to run only creatures which can stay around on the field afterwards. For instance, Obzedat, Armada Wurm, and I think a couple others, and you can MAYBE supplement with creatures whose enters/leaves the battlefield effects are strong enough.
And its very easy to cast on turn 3 when you have ramp spells.
@BluishGreen1.8T What list are you running? I searched page 3 where you said you had posted it but I cannot find it anywhere, given you states wonderful things about your deck like it has no mana problems or issues with Ooze, but I don't really know about just "taking your word" for it w/o testing it myself.
I think you're forgetting Detention Sphere which is a 4 of in just about all control decks right now, along with Rest In Peace which isn't getting sideboarded since Reanimator hasn't seen tournament play in quite some time, but might if it shows a resurgence.
Even in that SCG post by BBD he states that Whip was not nearly as good as he thought it would be for reanimation, he said it really wasn't doing much outside of the lifelink because you don't simply have 4 mana to spend every turn on getting a creature back for a single turn.
I'm thinking of making more of a midrange/ramp/reanimate deck using red instead of white, removing Obzedat's Aid and some of the white creatures for things like Sire of Insanity, Underworld Cerberus, and Rurik Thar/Master of Cruelties. Then using Deadbridge Chant and graveyard filtering to get inevitability out of it.
I do agree with you that Shadowborn Demon can be really good, I'm just really skeptical about doing this deck with Scavenging Ooze around and people possibly sideboarding like 1/2 Rest in Peace.
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Shadowborn Demon
3x Abhorrent Overlord
1x Lord of the Void
1x Ashen Rider
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Commune with the Gods
3x Grisly Salvage
3x Whip of Erebos
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Godless Shrine
4x Forest
4x golgari guildgate
1x seles gate
1x orzhov temple
1x swamp
4x Lifebane Zombie
2x Sylvan Primordial
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Angel of Serenity
2x Obzedat Ghost Council
2x Unflincing Courage
2x Underworld Connections
There were 0 RIPs in any sideboards from last weekend
Also most control decks ran 2 d spheres main which shouldnt be a problem game 1.
I dont have cockatrice right now so i just have personal test results and against any aggro deck a resolved whip is game over and naturally control is a grind
So far my deck is looking like:
4 Temple Garden
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Godless Shrine
3 Temple of Silence
3 Golgari Guildgate
4 Forest
1 Swamp
Creatures:
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Lotleth Troll
3 Loxodon Smiter
2 Shadowborn Demon
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Armada Wurm
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Ashen Rider
3 Grisly Salvage
4 Commune with the Gods
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Doom Blade
Other Spells:
2 Deadbridge Chant
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Slaughter Games
2 Underworld Connections
1 Putrefy
2 Sin Collector
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Angel of Serenity
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Lots of mana ramp, had to cut one Lotleth Troll which I'm still unsure about doing, I kind of want to put him back in, but have no idea on what I would cut to do so given I'm already running less fatties than pre-rotation Junk Reanimator did. Having access to two different kinds of reanimation and recursion makes it a bit more difficult to play around for your opponents. I feel they both come down around the same time, and Deadbridge mills you 10 which actually ends up helping the Whip giving it access to more creatures. I think the difference between 3 Whips and 2 is going to be minimal.
I still think chant is too slow and sideboard at best. When you mill your whips against an aggro deck its not going to be pretty.
To each their own. I like armada wurm just not 100% sold on him yet
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Godless Shrine
2 Temple of Silence
5 Swamp
5 Forest
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Loxodon Smiter
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
3 Shadowborn Demon
2 Ashen Rider
2 Abhorrent Overlord
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Obzedat's Aid
4 Whip of Erebos
2 Rescue from the Underworld
-Went back to Elvish Mystic instead of Deathrite Shaman. I really value the consistent mana generation over the slight reach the shaman gives me. Still not 100% on it, but I've felt the deck is a little smoother with the Mystic
-Not a fan of Deadbridge Chant unless you're dedicating a lot of slots to mill through the waste that it gives you. I'd rather have Rescue from the Underworld. Saccing an elf to bring back an abhorrent overlord or an ashen rider is pretty cool.
-Loxodon smiter is a very nice 3 drop instead of lifebane zombie. 4/4 for 3 is a pretty nice wall. I practically ended a game with a 6/5 troll and the 4/4 loxodon on its own very early against a control deck. LBZ can probably still be a better card against green decks, but i definitely prefer the big wall.
-I still enjoy the 4/3/2 reanimation suite. You just get a lot of options and potential starting hands. Obzedat's aid has been a very sick card and it's an awesome top deck late game.
Overall i feel like the deck is still missing something that keeps it more consistent but i'm slowly working towards it. I still don't have a sideboard yet.
I also went to Elvish Mystic, in my playtesting I would say 90% of the time I wanted shaman for mana generation more than anything else.
I think lifebane vs loxdon can both be either sideboard or main in the same slot, depending on your meta which one you want where. Even if lifebane ETB fizzles, a 3 power unblockable with the whip out keeps you going. Lifebane only feels really bad against RDW where shock or magma jet easily takes it out. I'm keeping lifebane in main and loxdon in the side.
Everyone seems to have their own tweaks on the reanimation suite, I'm sticking with 3/3/2. With the whip being legendary and a valid target for Commune, I feel that 4 has too much of a chance of being a dead card in hand.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
I'm thinking of changing to 3 Aid/2 Whip/1 Deadbridge. Deadbridge gives inevitability if they can't take it off the board. It brings back any things that you wanted to not put in the graveyard like Whips, Obzedat's Aid, etc. You can also use Obzedat's Aid to stick Deadbridge from the graveyard onto the battlefield itself.
I think Obzedat's Aid is the closest thing we have to Unburial Rites at the moment and Deadbridge gives us a sort of mini-ish flashback to all our spells and creatures in the late-game. It might be more tedious on mana, but it can bring back any permanent you want and stick it to the battlefield. Aid a whip onto the field, then whip something in. Or mill an aid, deadbridge it back into your hand, aid a fatty. They all sort of synergize with one another.
Having Aid with Deadbridge is good, having Deadbridge/Aid with Whip is good, having Whip with Deadbridge is good, having Whip with Aid is good; this is because all can affect one another. Whip benefits from you milling good creatures away, which Deadbridge does. Whip also needs to have a way of getting back onto the battlefield via Deadbridge/Aid.
I think relying on NOT milling your whips is more dangerous can possibly milling them, but having ways to bring them back.
Personally I feel Stormbreath Dragon and Chandra's Phoenix are both pretty relevant fliers along with Prognostic Sphinx to a lesser extent. Although you can chump-block all those with the 1/1's to buy you time, you won't really get any damage in with them, maybe if they were 1/2's or 2/1's I think Overlord would have been an amazing game finisher.
I'm only including Armada Wurm because you can keep the token even if you whip him in or if he dies. Armada Wurm in a world of Thragtusk sucked because the 5/5 got eaten by by a 5/3 and left his 3/3 little brother around, and Thraggie got the other person life. Now that Thraggie is gone, I think Wurm should be much better.
Dies to instant speed removal without any proper effect, but he's still a threat.
Whip gives haste, so you whip it back, swing for 8/8 trample damage, and double the counters on your Lotleth Trolls. I don't know if it's worth it to play him over any of the other fatties, but he'd be pretty interesting to hardcast, force the removal, then Whip or Deadbridge or Ob's Aid it back.
Ive actually been thinking of running a Jarad or 2 to fling the guys after theyve been whipped back. You can almost never get it exiled and you can always bring him back to hand late game
I love the idea of flinging whipped guys, but that's 7 mana to do it. I'm not sure how often that opportunity would really pop up, maybe sideboard for slower matches? I'd evaluate the card assuming we don't get that interaction and see it as a bonus.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
There's almost nothing in our deck that hits him other than Sylvan Primordial and landing a Lifebane Zombie on it before it gets cast.
And managing to have 7 mana up to tap out to summon, swing, and fling; It seems like a really, really good combo. But it requires too much in my mind. The goal when building a standard deck is to have a lot of synergy in your deck, but the cards each individually have to be good just in case that synergy never happens.
Jarad seems to run into this issue with me where he is only good with synergy, he's not very good by himself unless you have a ton of creatures in your graveyard where he turns into a big beater which is just "meh".
Just throwing stuff out there.
I could see this possibly working late against control, hes a recurring threat late game with the situational land saccing.
As for Blood Baron, I think 3-4 either Devour Flesh and / or Renounce the Guilds in the sideboard to stop him and any other pesky hexproof targets like a huge fleecemane in an enchantment deck, as well as some extra power to nail a turn 2 scooze. To also hit scooze I'm leaning towards devour flesh. Any thoughts on this?EDIT: Check out Cassial's response
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
Shennaigans WOTC
@ SirPsychoMantis-
Hey there, first post in here on this topic, I've been brewing and tuning Junk Whipanimator very heavily the past few weeks, I had to comment when I saw this. Since nobody else has said it yet, I thought it was obvious, but the answer to Blood Baron and/or Monstrous Fleecemane Lion(s) is, you should just not care about them, it really is that simple. Granted, I don't see a list in front of me that you're running, and these two cards are typically played in entirely different decks, but let's make some simple assumptions first, since you seem paranoid about these cards in a vacuum;
Monstrous Lion against you; the game has gone late.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa is a fairly mid-late game cast as well, the game is going to go late.
This is ultimately in your favor, as you have access to the whip, and your deck is set up (and tri-color for this reason) to abuse reanimation / casting more powerful cards. It will ultimately come down to your choice on what bombs you are running, and I like the 2-2-2-2 split of Angel of Serenity / Shadowborn Demon / Obzedat, Ghost Council / Armada Wurm. Between these 8 bombs though, if you do successfully make it to the late game, I'm convinced your game plan is to not care about either of these creatures, and proceed with just going over your opponent. Don't bring in reactive cheap garbage removal spells just for the "what if" scenario of oh noes they made a lion hexproof! It's still just a 4/4, your team is way bigger, or has the potential to be. Especially if you are running up to 8 dig spells, the chances are that you're going to end up pitching whatever instants/sorceries you bring in, unless you explicitly swap your dig spells out for hard removal. Devour Flesh is also not going to be ideal for you at all I don't think, against a G/W aggro deck, they are going to play a lot of other creatures as well, the last thing you want is an unreliable one for one kill spell, oh sure I'll sacrifice my Elvish Mystic or what have you. Devour is okay in a dedicated black based "control" or "rock" deck that is doing other things to keep the board clear, Devour by itself is just not conducive to the rest of your game plan. Same exact deal with Renounce the Guilds - we have maybe 2-3 spots for mainboard spot removal, and you absolutely want control over hitting the few things your deck cares about, namely Scavenging Ooze.
I'll give a recent example/story of how my deck actually interacted with both Blood Baron of Vizkopa and Fleecemane Lion, the TLDR version is that they were garbage against me.
Going forward, I just use that story to try and illustrate that your deck should, if set up like previous standard reanimator, granted we don't have Thragtusk anymore, but the strategy is the same, you just outlast whatever removal/creatures they throw at you. The simplest way I can break it all down, if you are able to outlast whatever early threats your opponent throws at you, you should have the ultimate inevitability when it comes down to a racing scenario, and you want the game to become a topdeck war.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9157664&postcount=1
South Carolina State Champion: 2012
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.