I probably wouldnt even be worried about small creatures like that because you are just going to fly over them and out lifegain all the damage they do to you.
but BBoV is still problematic, as is ghost dad
EDIT:Also i think Shadowborn Demon deserves testing, i was testing it today and it is absolutely relevant vs anything thats not Desecration Demon
EDIT:Also i think Shadowborn Demon deserves testing, i was testing it today and it is absolutely relevant vs anything thats not Desecration Demon
Considering the main decks right out of the gates will be Red based i dont think BBoV will be that good. Obzedat is good but i think he is sideboard at best for control matchups.
Im running shadowborn in my list as a 4 of because of what you said...and dropping him on 3 is pretty good.
Considering the main decks right out of the gates will be Red based i dont think BBoV will be that good. Obzedat is good but i think he is sideboard at best for control matchups.
Im running shadowborn in my list as a 4 of because of what you said...and dropping him on 3 is pretty good.
I'm actually enjoying Deathrite Shaman a lot in this deck. I'm currently testing 3 Grisly Salvage and 3 Commune with the Gods. I've found that the Grisly/Commune enables deathrite mana generation a good percentage of the time early game. A very common sequence of turns i've seen is: Turn 1 Deathrite, Turn 2 commune/grisly, Turn 3 Whip, Turn 4 reanimate. I also feel like deathrite isn't too terrible of a draw later game.
This version is very creature heavy, I also am testing another version where some of the creatures have been replaced with removal. I feel like the deck loses consistency when there are removal cards added, personally.
I've noticed a lot of discussion about Obzedat's Aid and whether or not it deserves a spot. Personally, i'm loving the 4/3/2 reanimation suite that I'm running. Obzedat's aid is amazing if your whip gets destroyed, but reanimating an ashen rider on turn 4 is pretty great. Rescue from the underworld is also a pretty great card, I haven't decided if it's "win more" or not but I haven't been upset to see it. The only concession I have is that it can possibly get milled by commune/grisly.
I feel like this archetype definitely has the potential to become top tier, considering we can reanimate a whole toolbox of threats by turn 4. I'm still trying to decide what creatures I really want to be in the deck though. I've never been disappointed to grab Ashen Rider or Shadowborn Demon as a reanimation target. I'm thinking about making room for Sylvan Primordial but I can't really figure out what to remove. Anyway, i just thought i would contribute some of my thoughts to what is an extremely fun deck!
I'm actually enjoying Deathrite Shaman a lot in this deck. I'm currently testing 3 Grisly Salvage and 3 Commune with the Gods. I've found that the Grisly/Commune enables deathrite mana generation a good percentage of the time early game. A very common sequence of turns i've seen is: Turn 1 Deathrite, Turn 2 commune/grisly, Turn 3 Whip, Turn 4 reanimate. I also feel like deathrite isn't too terrible of a draw later game.
This version is very creature heavy, I also am testing another version where some of the creatures have been replaced with removal. I feel like the deck loses consistency when there are removal cards added, personally.
I've noticed a lot of discussion about Obzedat's Aid and whether or not it deserves a spot. Personally, i'm loving the 4/3/2 reanimation suite that I'm running. Obzedat's aid is amazing if your whip gets destroyed, but reanimating an ashen rider on turn 4 is pretty great. Rescue from the underworld is also a pretty great card, I haven't decided if it's "win more" or not but I haven't been upset to see it. The only concession I have is that it can possibly get milled by commune/grisly.
I feel like this archetype definitely has the potential to become top tier, considering we can reanimate a whole toolbox of threats by turn 4. I'm still trying to decide what creatures I really want to be in the deck though. I've never been disappointed to grab Ashen Rider or Shadowborn Demon as a reanimation target. I'm thinking about making room for Sylvan Primordial but I can't really figure out what to remove. Anyway, i just thought i would contribute some of my thoughts to what is an extremely fun deck!
Your list is very similar to mine at the moment, DRS just gives you the extra reach you need, I have to say that I like all the spells. looking at a 3/2/2 split with 3 aids and 2 whips and rescues, And in my testing, primordial has been my #1 or #2 go to everytime, he blocks everything under the sun, and is super great, i would cut 2 demons, and add 2 Angel of Serenity , she is the best target as she recurs your other to fill your hand, as well as anything tht might be able to block in the air, I also recommend Pharika's Mender, as this can recur whips pitched to salvages, but i also feel 4 salvage/4 commune is absolutely necessary to ensure getting them early enough
Why are people suggesting Pharika's Mender as a viable card? If we want a way to get back Whip, Obzedat's Aide is better and more versatle at the same CC, while Auramacer is cheaper. 5 mana is a lot for such a boring beater, I'd pretty much always prefer to be casting a bomb like BBoV or AAoT turn 5. Maybe if it put it onto the battle field.
I have to correct myself from yesterday, mender is a house, just good no matter what cards don't get salvaged into the yard, this gal(i think?) is bonkers, she ensures that whip will never stay in the yard, and she has a relevant body. I would say to test her and see for yourself
do you run DRS to filter out cards from deadbridge chant?
I used a 3:3 split of Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze, Ooze was way more useful in most match ups, DRS only performed against control and only late.
I have to correct myself from yesterday, mender is a house, just good no matter what cards don't get salvaged into the yard, this gal(i think?) is bonkers, she ensures that whip will never stay in the yard, and she has a relevant body. I would say to test her and see for yourself
Can you post a list with her in it? I am curious as to what you play it over. Thanks!
I used a 3:3 split of Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze, Ooze was way more useful in most match ups, DRS only performed against control and only late.
i tested scooze, it was just a bad draw, because it is subpar, and mostly eats burn, or you trade him with something else. just my 2 cents on scooze,
As far as demon over angel is concerned, i think that angel is absolutely your best friend here, and she essentially plays out like this: WW5- have a 5/6 that will draw you 3 cards when it leaves the battlefield
I'm actually enjoying Deathrite Shaman a lot in this deck. I'm currently testing 3 Grisly Salvage and 3 Commune with the Gods. I've found that the Grisly/Commune enables deathrite mana generation a good percentage of the time early game. A very common sequence of turns i've seen is: Turn 1 Deathrite, Turn 2 commune/grisly, Turn 3 Whip, Turn 4 reanimate. I also feel like deathrite isn't too terrible of a draw later game.
This version is very creature heavy, I also am testing another version where some of the creatures have been replaced with removal. I feel like the deck loses consistency when there are removal cards added, personally.
I've noticed a lot of discussion about Obzedat's Aid and whether or not it deserves a spot. Personally, i'm loving the 4/3/2 reanimation suite that I'm running. Obzedat's aid is amazing if your whip gets destroyed, but reanimating an ashen rider on turn 4 is pretty great. Rescue from the underworld is also a pretty great card, I haven't decided if it's "win more" or not but I haven't been upset to see it. The only concession I have is that it can possibly get milled by commune/grisly.
I feel like this archetype definitely has the potential to become top tier, considering we can reanimate a whole toolbox of threats by turn 4. I'm still trying to decide what creatures I really want to be in the deck though. I've never been disappointed to grab Ashen Rider or Shadowborn Demon as a reanimation target. I'm thinking about making room for Sylvan Primordial but I can't really figure out what to remove. Anyway, i just thought i would contribute some of my thoughts to what is an extremely fun deck!
I just dont see deathrite being too useful, but to each their own. Id rather play mystic and for sure have 4 mana turn 3 instead of maybe having it.
Also, milling your aids and resues seems really bad
I just dont see deathrite being too useful, but to each their own. Id rather play mystic and for sure have 4 mana turn 3 instead of maybe having it.
Also, milling your aids and resues seems really bad
I think the main reason i like Deathrite better than Mystic is because deathrite definitely gives you a little more reach. The elf is better for straight accel, but the deathrite's abilities are definitely better. I haven't had a problem with my shaman yet. My list that runs removal runs mystic for the guaranteed acceleration.
I'm not really sure what to do about milling the aids and rescues. There's definitely the chance of hitting them, however small. I just don't really know what to replace aid/rescue with. They both are extremely good. So far in my testing It hasn't been a problem yet.
I like deathrite in the Deadbridge lists. Idk...i guess i just really want that turn 2 smiter against all the aggro decks bound to be out there. Once control finds a shell i can see running deathrite for the reach. You have to think though that you already have plenty of reach with whip alone bringing back huge hasty fliers and some refilling your hand, leaving behind a **** ton of 1/1 fliers, or killing something.
As far as aids and rescue i would maybe cut down to 1 aid and go up to 3 whips.
Getting lifelink is the nuts. 1 aid seems fine just as a catchall unless it gets milled over nbd.
More often than not you will want the lifelink
Turn 1 mystic
Turn 2 smiter
Turn 3 whip
Then you start filling your yard after that
Seems pretttty good
Just my .02
And having 4 shadowborn demons is a good catchall against anything that isnt sire or desecration demon. Which sylvan primordial eats both of those.
This version is very creature heavy, I also am testing another version where some of the creatures have been replaced with removal. I feel like the deck loses consistency when there are removal cards added, personally.
I've been playtesting a deck with more removal, but as I've been tweaking it there have been times where I salvage and hit lands and spells when I've already got enough mana in hand, not enough reanimation targets, etc. I feel like its slowly turning into Junk Midrange + whip and it doesn't feel as consistent for me as well. I think I might scrap it and move back towards everyone else with the heavy creature + reanimation suite.
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I like deathrite in the Deadbridge lists. Idk...i guess i just really want that turn 2 smiter against all the aggro decks bound to be out there. Once control finds a shell i can see running deathrite for the reach. You have to think though that you already have plenty of reach with whip alone bringing back huge hasty fliers and some refilling your hand, leaving behind a **** ton of 1/1 fliers, or killing something.
As far as aids and rescue i would maybe cut down to 1 aid and go up to 3 whips.
Getting lifelink is the nuts. 1 aid seems fine just as a catchall unless it gets milled over nbd.
More often than not you will want the lifelink
Turn 1 mystic
Turn 2 smiter
Turn 3 whip
Then you start filling your yard after that
Seems pretttty good
Just my .02
And having 4 shadowborn demons is a good catchall against anything that isnt sire or desecration demon. Which sylvan primordial eats both of those.
I'm actually running 4 whip/3 Aids/2 Rescue. I completely forgot about the Chant..That might warrant some testing. Possibly -2 Rescue +2 Chant.
How are you liking abhorrent overlord? I feel like he's a the perfect answer to more aggressive decks, seeing as though you could potentially get 4-6 1/1 lifelinkers and an immediate 6 points of life/damage. 4-6 chump blockers is a huge wall and definitely gives you a time extension. I'm not entirely loving armada wurm. I feel like Giant Adephage would do better in his slot, seeing as he replaces himself and if you get to swing with the token again you're pretty much guaranteed to win the game. His body is pretty huge too! I like shadowborn as a 3 of, just because i feel like having a diverse creature selection is very important. He's definitely a house though. Ashen rider and the demon are my favorite cards in the deck.
Overlord is by far the best creature in the deck next to shadowborn demon. Shadowborn is always the first guy im looking for and then an overlord to just flood the board with blockers
And having 4 shadowborn demons is a good catchall against anything that isnt sire or desecration demon. Which sylvan primordial eats both of those.
Ashen rider can just eat either of those of a whip activation....idk think rider is getting overlooked it seems like the new AoS to me. and better then demon personally.
my real question is how hard of a time is ooze for the new reanimator? i realize we just go to hardcast everything, but how reliable is the deck actually against ooze if anyone has tested.
Ashen rider can just eat either of those of a whip activation....idk think rider is getting overlooked it seems like the new AoS to me. and better then demon personally.
my real question is how hard of a time is ooze for the new reanimator? i realize we just go to hardcast everything, but how reliable is the deck actually against ooze if anyone has tested.
You can hardcast desecration demon though, ashen rider doesn't get that luxury. I don't think I will run 4x demon, but rider isn't really a replacement for it, I think 1-2 riders, maybe 2-3 demons.
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You can hardcast desecration demon though, ashen rider doesn't get that luxury. I don't think I will run 4x demon, but rider isn't really a replacement for it, I think 1-2 riders, maybe 2-3 demons.
Hes no griselbrand but now that he has haste thanks to the whip, he hits for 7, gains 7 and potentially gets your something tasty (considering your opponent might be scrying for decent beaters also)
On another note, Someone on the GR deck discussion posted this:
[QUOTE=mootown2;/comments/12301039]obviously we'll have even more results later today thanks to SCG Worcester, but here are some fairly interesting local results from a Grand Prix Trial for Louisville
Hes no griselbrand but now that he has haste thanks to the whip, he hits for 7, gains 7 and potentially gets your something tasty (considering your opponent might be scrying for decent beaters also)
On another note, Someone on the GR deck discussion posted this:
[QUOTE=mootown2;/comments/12301039]obviously we'll have even more results later today thanks to SCG Worcester, but here are some fairly interesting local results from a Grand Prix Trial for Louisville
Hes no griselbrand but now that he has haste thanks to the whip, he hits for 7, gains 7 and potentially gets your something tasty (considering your opponent might be scrying for decent beaters also)
In terms of Lord of the Void, you have to consider him vs. other big guys. With all my reanimation targets, I want them to do something when they hit the field. Lord of the Void can be chump blocked by a 1/1 flyer and accomplish nothing, while guys like Sylvan Primordial, Ashen Rider, and Angel of Serenity all have a nice ETB effect.
EDIT: Also as a note, I'm not sure how I feel about Sylvan Primordial. When you hit him with the whip, you typically can only kill a land. Maybe if we get a more enchantment heavy meta he would be better, but I'd rather kill / bounce creatures against most of the decks I've played.
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but BBoV is still problematic, as is ghost dad
EDIT:Also i think Shadowborn Demon deserves testing, i was testing it today and it is absolutely relevant vs anything thats not Desecration Demon
Considering the main decks right out of the gates will be Red based i dont think BBoV will be that good. Obzedat is good but i think he is sideboard at best for control matchups.
Im running shadowborn in my list as a 4 of because of what you said...and dropping him on 3 is pretty good.
that seems like alot, could you post your list?
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple Garden
2 Temple of Silence
6 Swamp
4 Forest
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Ashen Rider
1 Lord of the Void
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Armada Wurm
3 Shadowborn Demon
3 Commune with the Gods
4 Whip of Erebos
2 Rescue from the Underworld
3 Obzedat's Aid
I'm actually enjoying Deathrite Shaman a lot in this deck. I'm currently testing 3 Grisly Salvage and 3 Commune with the Gods. I've found that the Grisly/Commune enables deathrite mana generation a good percentage of the time early game. A very common sequence of turns i've seen is: Turn 1 Deathrite, Turn 2 commune/grisly, Turn 3 Whip, Turn 4 reanimate. I also feel like deathrite isn't too terrible of a draw later game.
This version is very creature heavy, I also am testing another version where some of the creatures have been replaced with removal. I feel like the deck loses consistency when there are removal cards added, personally.
I've noticed a lot of discussion about Obzedat's Aid and whether or not it deserves a spot. Personally, i'm loving the 4/3/2 reanimation suite that I'm running. Obzedat's aid is amazing if your whip gets destroyed, but reanimating an ashen rider on turn 4 is pretty great. Rescue from the underworld is also a pretty great card, I haven't decided if it's "win more" or not but I haven't been upset to see it. The only concession I have is that it can possibly get milled by commune/grisly.
I feel like this archetype definitely has the potential to become top tier, considering we can reanimate a whole toolbox of threats by turn 4. I'm still trying to decide what creatures I really want to be in the deck though. I've never been disappointed to grab Ashen Rider or Shadowborn Demon as a reanimation target. I'm thinking about making room for Sylvan Primordial but I can't really figure out what to remove. Anyway, i just thought i would contribute some of my thoughts to what is an extremely fun deck!
Your list is very similar to mine at the moment, DRS just gives you the extra reach you need, I have to say that I like all the spells. looking at a 3/2/2 split with 3 aids and 2 whips and rescues, And in my testing, primordial has been my #1 or #2 go to everytime, he blocks everything under the sun, and is super great, i would cut 2 demons, and add 2 Angel of Serenity , she is the best target as she recurs your other to fill your hand, as well as anything tht might be able to block in the air, I also recommend Pharika's Mender, as this can recur whips pitched to salvages, but i also feel 4 salvage/4 commune is absolutely necessary to ensure getting them early enough
I have to correct myself from yesterday, mender is a house, just good no matter what cards don't get salvaged into the yard, this gal(i think?) is bonkers, she ensures that whip will never stay in the yard, and she has a relevant body. I would say to test her and see for yourself
I used a 3:3 split of Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze, Ooze was way more useful in most match ups, DRS only performed against control and only late.
I also run two Shadowborn Demon and a 1:1 split of Angel of Serenity and Ashen Rider with the same split in the SB for different matchups.
I will be testing two Armada Wurm MB, after reading BBDs article today, I hope he plays this deck tomorrow in his VS video. Link for reference http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27011_Greed-Sometimes-Pays.html
Can you post a list with her in it? I am curious as to what you play it over. Thanks!
i tested scooze, it was just a bad draw, because it is subpar, and mostly eats burn, or you trade him with something else. just my 2 cents on scooze,
As far as demon over angel is concerned, i think that angel is absolutely your best friend here, and she essentially plays out like this: WW5- have a 5/6 that will draw you 3 cards when it leaves the battlefield
Its on page 3 somewhere
I just dont see deathrite being too useful, but to each their own. Id rather play mystic and for sure have 4 mana turn 3 instead of maybe having it.
Also, milling your aids and resues seems really bad
No problems yet
I think the main reason i like Deathrite better than Mystic is because deathrite definitely gives you a little more reach. The elf is better for straight accel, but the deathrite's abilities are definitely better. I haven't had a problem with my shaman yet. My list that runs removal runs mystic for the guaranteed acceleration.
I'm not really sure what to do about milling the aids and rescues. There's definitely the chance of hitting them, however small. I just don't really know what to replace aid/rescue with. They both are extremely good. So far in my testing It hasn't been a problem yet.
As far as aids and rescue i would maybe cut down to 1 aid and go up to 3 whips.
Getting lifelink is the nuts. 1 aid seems fine just as a catchall unless it gets milled over nbd.
More often than not you will want the lifelink
Turn 1 mystic
Turn 2 smiter
Turn 3 whip
Then you start filling your yard after that
Seems pretttty good
Just my .02
And having 4 shadowborn demons is a good catchall against anything that isnt sire or desecration demon. Which sylvan primordial eats both of those.
I've been playtesting a deck with more removal, but as I've been tweaking it there have been times where I salvage and hit lands and spells when I've already got enough mana in hand, not enough reanimation targets, etc. I feel like its slowly turning into Junk Midrange + whip and it doesn't feel as consistent for me as well. I think I might scrap it and move back towards everyone else with the heavy creature + reanimation suite.
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Legacy:
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Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
I'm actually running 4 whip/3 Aids/2 Rescue. I completely forgot about the Chant..That might warrant some testing. Possibly -2 Rescue +2 Chant.
How are you liking abhorrent overlord? I feel like he's a the perfect answer to more aggressive decks, seeing as though you could potentially get 4-6 1/1 lifelinkers and an immediate 6 points of life/damage. 4-6 chump blockers is a huge wall and definitely gives you a time extension. I'm not entirely loving armada wurm. I feel like Giant Adephage would do better in his slot, seeing as he replaces himself and if you get to swing with the token again you're pretty much guaranteed to win the game. His body is pretty huge too! I like shadowborn as a 3 of, just because i feel like having a diverse creature selection is very important. He's definitely a house though. Ashen rider and the demon are my favorite cards in the deck.
Ashen rider can just eat either of those of a whip activation....idk think rider is getting overlooked it seems like the new AoS to me. and better then demon personally.
my real question is how hard of a time is ooze for the new reanimator? i realize we just go to hardcast everything, but how reliable is the deck actually against ooze if anyone has tested.
You can hardcast desecration demon though, ashen rider doesn't get that luxury. I don't think I will run 4x demon, but rider isn't really a replacement for it, I think 1-2 riders, maybe 2-3 demons.
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Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
its about shadowborn demon.
I likeShadowborn Demon, he is a 1 of in my 75
Hes no griselbrand but now that he has haste thanks to the whip, he hits for 7, gains 7 and potentially gets your something tasty (considering your opponent might be scrying for decent beaters also)
On another note, Someone on the GR deck discussion posted this:
[QUOTE=mootown2;/comments/12301039]obviously we'll have even more results later today thanks to SCG Worcester, but here are some fairly interesting local results from a Grand Prix Trial for Louisville
2 Angel of Serenity
2 Armada Wurm
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Lotleth Troll
2 Shadowborn Demon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Spells
2 Doom Blade
4 Grisly Salvage
2 Hero’s Downfall
3 Whip of Erbos
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
3 Temple of Silence
1 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Selesnya Charm
1 Putrefy
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Savage Summoning
2 Tristani, Selesnya’s Voice
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Abrupt Decay
https://www.facebook.com/notes/action-unlimited-games/action-unlimited-games-grand-prix-trial-for-louisville-top-4-decklist/443010555817124
Seems like it works
That is BBD's list from Thursday, here is a link to the article. http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27011_Greed-Sometimes-Pays.html He talks about it in the article and quite a bit in the comments.
In terms of Lord of the Void, you have to consider him vs. other big guys. With all my reanimation targets, I want them to do something when they hit the field. Lord of the Void can be chump blocked by a 1/1 flyer and accomplish nothing, while guys like Sylvan Primordial, Ashen Rider, and Angel of Serenity all have a nice ETB effect.
EDIT: Also as a note, I'm not sure how I feel about Sylvan Primordial. When you hit him with the whip, you typically can only kill a land. Maybe if we get a more enchantment heavy meta he would be better, but I'd rather kill / bounce creatures against most of the decks I've played.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black