I haven't personally had problems casting Reckoner either, just know that your game against aggro will be weaker without him. If you aren't expecting many other aggro decks, it might be fine to go without him.
The triple Ooze has made the matchup vs most aggro pretty even game 1 and game two bringing in the Unflinches seals the deal vs most R/X . Do you run him over Saytr?
3 Costs in the deck - All can be played turn two an Elf start
Boon Satyr
Loxodon Smiter
Domri
Reckoner can't. I feel like it takes away from the extremely explosive starts we can have. If you drop Satyr for reckoner. You then limit yourself to Smiter or Domri for a turn two power play. But like I said people are very successful with him it seems and maybe I've just had bad luck and should flip in the Reckoner over Satyr. Maybe I need to test more who knows. Definitely open for opinions on it.
Personally it depends on the starting hand, for me. Sometimes you can power out a turn two Domri/Loxodon with a t1 elf. Sometimes you wont have the elf or the loxodon/domri so it is better to play a t1 scry land or pain land tapped.
I like having the option of doing either depending on your hand, who you are facing, etc. Curve out into a t3 reckoner or go for the t2 domri/loxodon/boon(in your case)
The triple Ooze has made the matchup vs most aggro pretty even game 1 and game two bringing in the Unflinches seals the deal vs most R/X . Do you run him over Saytr?
Agreed that Ooze ad unflinching can seal games against other aggro decks. I do however feel that losing the Domri+reckoner interaction is also worth considering. It is a pretty common finisher for me, to get in the last few points of damage
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Standard Decks:
G/R Monsters
Naya Aggro
Current Modern Decks:
RUG Splinter Twin
Boros Sunforger
Personally it depends on the starting hand, for me. Sometimes you can power out a turn two Domri/Loxodon with a t1 elf. Sometimes you wont have the elf or the loxodon/domri so it is better to play a t1 scry land or pain land tapped.
I like having the option of doing either depending on your hand, who you are facing, etc. Curve out into a t3 reckoner or go for the t2 domri/loxodon/boon(in your case)
Alright you convinced me. I'll give him one last weekends shot.
@kamahl, I am not as experienced as you but I think you are underestimating Domri. The pit fight is much more helpful than what you are giving it credit for. I have been in situations where the opponent is lower on life but HAS to block my indestructible fleecemane. By doing so it allows me to then "fight" this brick of a creature that I normally couldn't get over. While you can always find "perfect" situations for every card, more often than not Domri seems to give me an edge.
Obviously some skill is required in playing him. Sometimes turn 2's loxidon smiter is a better play than domri (sometimes heh)... and not everytime do you want to fight. But man, I am never unhappy to have him on the board.
I did not have any problems as of yet playing Reckoner, occasionally if you know you want to get a really fast start in a game you might have to mulligan for less scry lands thoughs, but i think the benefit of them is worse the risk. I see most people running at least 5, from the lists I have seen so far.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Standard Decks:
G/R Monsters
Naya Aggro
Current Modern Decks:
RUG Splinter Twin
Boros Sunforger
3 Costs in the deck - All can be played turn two an Elf start
Boon Satyr
Loxodon Smiter
Domri
Reckoner can't. I feel like it takes away from the extremely explosive starts we can have. If you drop Satyr for reckoner. You then limit yourself to Smiter or Domri for a turn two power play. But like I said people are very successful with him it seems and maybe I've just had bad luck and should flip in the Reckoner over Satyr. Maybe I need to test more who knows. Definitely open for opinions on it.
Reckoners a solved problem though, he really only shines against aggro, IMHO, especially now that white has answers for him. Folks will probably be siding in Glare of Heresy for Voice, but it can get rid of Reckoner just as easy. The only colors that don't have direct 'get him off the board with no damage' would be mono-red and mono-green. Mono-red can still go through him though with Goblin Shortcutter and Firefirst Striker, both of which are seeing play in RDW.
All of that, along with the fact that I can no longer turn 2 him, and early pressure is a large part of what makes this deck work right now... it wasn't a hard decision to cut him. Turn 2 Smiter followed by a another Smiter, or a Voice, or a Fleecemane Lion can still stall aggro pretty effectively.
@kamahl, I am not as experienced as you but I think you are underestimating Domri. The pit fight is much more helpful than what you are giving it credit for. I have been in situations where the opponent is lower on life but HAS to block my indestructible fleecemane. By doing so it allows me to then "fight" this brick of a creature that I normally couldn't get over. While you can always find "perfect" situations for every card, more often than not Domri seems to give me an edge.
Obviously some skill is required in playing him. Sometimes turn 2's loxidon smiter is a better play than domri (sometimes heh)... and not everytime do you want to fight. But man, I am never unhappy to have him on the board.
It depends on the matchup as to what the better turn 2 play is. Against any kind of control, the sooner you get Domri online, the sooner you win. Against any kind of creatures, you want that Smiter on board to stand in front of Domri, then follow him up with Domri and fight to clear their board. Either way, if you can have one of the two in play on turn two, you're typically in good shape.
It depends on the matchup as to what the better turn 2 play is. Against any kind of control, the sooner you get Domri online, the sooner you win. Against any kind of creatures, you want that Smiter on board to stand in front of Domri, then follow him up with Domri and fight to clear their board. Either way, if you can have one of the two in play on turn two, you're typically in good shape.
Agreed, really depends on the board state, and what is in your hand, but either on turn 2 is amazing. That play is basically the only reason I am running Mystics still. Stormbreath a turn earlier is also great, but the t2 Smiter/Domri really can break someone.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Standard Decks:
G/R Monsters
Naya Aggro
Current Modern Decks:
RUG Splinter Twin
Boros Sunforger
So I've been thinking about the deck some more, and I think that the key point that is missing is extra mana acceleration.
This article shows off Sylvan Carytid nicely, which I think is the missing link to let us play our 4-5 drops before the other guy does.
I really feel like there are 2 versions of Naya currently evolving. Both are great, but they are also different. One focuses on ramping into large creatures or monstrosities. The other focuses on early pressure through value creatures (and continuing pressure)
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Standard Decks:
G/R Monsters
Naya Aggro
Current Modern Decks:
RUG Splinter Twin
Boros Sunforger
I really feel like there are 2 versions of Naya currently evolving. Both are great, but they are also different. One focuses on ramping into large creatures or monstrosities. The other focuses on early pressure through value creatures (and continuing pressure)
@Stormbreath Dragon
Which version are you running? If you are running 4x Elvish Mystic and some number of Caryatids, then the full 4 are probably best. If you are running the Experiment One/Soldier of the Pantheon version, then some lists play 0 (although I am not a fan).
@Stormbreath Dragon
Which version are you running? If you are running 4x Elvish Mystic and some number of Caryatids, then the full 4 are probably best. If you are running the Experiment One/Soldier of the Pantheon version, then some lists play 0 (although I am not a fan).
I've tried that deck. IMO its really high variance and reminded me of Naya Blitz with slightly more reach but with a lot less explosiveness. I would not recommend that deck to anyone ever. You are much better off playing monowhite/boros/g/w/ rdw/etc then that deck.
I've tried that deck. IMO its really high variance and reminded me of Naya Blitz with slightly more reach but with a lot less explosiveness. I would not recommend that deck to anyone ever. You are much better off playing monowhite/boros/g/w/ rdw/etc then that deck.
I noticed you're running 1-ofs of Xenagos, Chandra, Polukranos and Sylvan. Is this just for your testing or do you intend to make that a permanent thing? I feel like Polukranos and Sylvan I would want to see frequently. I'm still trying to tune my list but my local meta is mostly aggro and control (I really want to learn to crush Dega!!) and I want a list that I can use successfully.
I noticed you're running 1-ofs of Xenagos, Chandra, Polukranos and Sylvan. Is this just for your testing or do you intend to make that a permanent thing? I feel like Polukranos and Sylvan I would want to see frequently. I'm still trying to tune my list but my local meta is mostly aggro and control (I really want to learn to crush Dega!!) and I want a list that I can use successfully.
I understand cutting Polukranos down to 1. I've been running 2 and Domri always ends up getting me the second one when the first one is already in play. I hate doing that. Polukranos is already very difficult to remove aside from Hero's Downfall and the like, so drawing a second one is never a good feeling.
You'll get it less consistently, but you won't draw a dead card when you only have one in your deck.
I understand cutting Polukranos down to 1. I've been running 2 and Domri always ends up getting me the second one when the first one is already in play. I hate doing that. Polukranos is already very difficult to remove aside from Hero's Downfall and the like, so drawing a second one is never a good feeling.
You'll get it less consistently, but you won't draw a dead card when you only have one in your deck.
How would you deal with Desecration Demon? The new Dega and BW decks are an absolute nightmare to try to combat effectively. I main-board 2 charms but between 2-4 Demons and 2-3 Obzedats I can't deal with it effectively (I know I can't deal with BBoV either but I sideboard in Celestial Flare).
How would you deal with Desecration Demon? The new Dega and BW decks are an absolute nightmare to try to combat effectively. I main-board 2 charms but between 2-4 Demons and 2-3 Obzedats I can't deal with it effectively (I know I can't deal with BBoV either but I sideboard in Celestial Flare).
I have Plummets on my sideboard with DDemon in mind. Extremely easy to cast and kills him at instant speed. Also solves the issue of Dragons as well. BBV doesn't bother as our Dragons destroy him. I've also loved having Ooze main board since it completely resolves any issues that deck or other random whip decks would gives us.
And yes their creatures are scary but I think ours are scarier.
If you opt to not have him main board you can side Destructive Revelry in and get rid of it as it's a major factor of Midrange Mythic.
However, Kamahl, the Fallen probably has better info on it than I do since he championed that deck for a while I believe.
How would you deal with Desecration Demon? The new Dega and BW decks are an absolute nightmare to try to combat effectively. I main-board 2 charms but between 2-4 Demons and 2-3 Obzedats I can't deal with it effectively (I know I can't deal with BBoV either but I sideboard in Celestial Flare).
That matchup isnt nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. They have to put anti-control cards in their maindeck therefore making their aggro matchup slightly worse. So that gives us the chance to be able to capitalize on that. BBoV is the only thing that I worry about. I dont normally care about a DD unless its on like turn 3 and tthey are on the play(GB rock). We have VoR and manadorks we can tap their demon down with to be able to keep bringing beats. BBoV is the only one to care about. Obzedat we can make them keep him in play sometimes because of the pressre we have. BBoV we need the mortars for or the dragon + domri fight. Which is almost as likely as them having the BBoV so its not so bad.
I noticed you're running 1-ofs of Xenagos, Chandra, Polukranos and Sylvan. Is this just for your testing or do you intend to make that a permanent thing? I feel like Polukranos and Sylvan I would want to see frequently. I'm still trying to tune my list but my local meta is mostly aggro and control (I really want to learn to crush Dega!!) and I want a list that I can use successfully.
Im running them as 1-ofs because I normally dont want to see more than 1. Caryatid is usually pretty bad but it mana fixes pretty good and helps ramp into 4/5 drops nicely.
That matchup isnt nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. They have to put anti-control cards in their maindeck therefore making their aggro matchup slightly worse. So that gives us the chance to be able to capitalize on that. BBoV is the only thing that I worry about. I dont normally care about a DD unless its on like turn 3 and tthey are on the play(GB rock). We have VoR and manadorks we can tap their demon down with to be able to keep bringing beats. BBoV is the only one to care about. Obzedat we can make them keep him in play sometimes because of the pressre we have. BBoV we need the mortars for or the dragon + domri fight. Which is almost as likely as them having the BBoV so its not so bad.
Im running them as 1-ofs because I normally dont want to see more than 1. Caryatid is usually pretty bad but it mana fixes pretty good and helps ramp into 4/5 drops nicely.
Sac'ing a Voice to D Demon is an awesome play. Then you get a token that's about a 3/3 or a 4/4 to swing past their tapped demon next turn. If you can add a Stormbreath to that play, it's essentially game over. Then they have to use Demon on defense, which you can choose whether or not they get to block with it. I'm not really worried about removing the D demon. I'll save my removal for BBoV and their Stormbreaths.
The triple Ooze has made the matchup vs most aggro pretty even game 1 and game two bringing in the Unflinches seals the deal vs most R/X . Do you run him over Saytr?
Personally it depends on the starting hand, for me. Sometimes you can power out a turn two Domri/Loxodon with a t1 elf. Sometimes you wont have the elf or the loxodon/domri so it is better to play a t1 scry land or pain land tapped.
I like having the option of doing either depending on your hand, who you are facing, etc. Curve out into a t3 reckoner or go for the t2 domri/loxodon/boon(in your case)
Agreed that Ooze ad unflinching can seal games against other aggro decks. I do however feel that losing the Domri+reckoner interaction is also worth considering. It is a pretty common finisher for me, to get in the last few points of damage
G/R Monsters
Naya Aggro
Current Modern Decks:
RUG Splinter Twin
Boros Sunforger
Commander:
Kemba, Kha Regent
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Uril, the Miststalker
Alright you convinced me. I'll give him one last weekends shot.
Just play like 3 forest and you'll be fine.
Obviously some skill is required in playing him. Sometimes turn 2's loxidon smiter is a better play than domri (sometimes heh)... and not everytime do you want to fight. But man, I am never unhappy to have him on the board.
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
3 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Triumph
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mountain
I did not have any problems as of yet playing Reckoner, occasionally if you know you want to get a really fast start in a game you might have to mulligan for less scry lands thoughs, but i think the benefit of them is worse the risk. I see most people running at least 5, from the lists I have seen so far.
G/R Monsters
Naya Aggro
Current Modern Decks:
RUG Splinter Twin
Boros Sunforger
Commander:
Kemba, Kha Regent
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Uril, the Miststalker
Reckoners a solved problem though, he really only shines against aggro, IMHO, especially now that white has answers for him. Folks will probably be siding in Glare of Heresy for Voice, but it can get rid of Reckoner just as easy. The only colors that don't have direct 'get him off the board with no damage' would be mono-red and mono-green. Mono-red can still go through him though with Goblin Shortcutter and Firefirst Striker, both of which are seeing play in RDW.
All of that, along with the fact that I can no longer turn 2 him, and early pressure is a large part of what makes this deck work right now... it wasn't a hard decision to cut him. Turn 2 Smiter followed by a another Smiter, or a Voice, or a Fleecemane Lion can still stall aggro pretty effectively.
It depends on the matchup as to what the better turn 2 play is. Against any kind of control, the sooner you get Domri online, the sooner you win. Against any kind of creatures, you want that Smiter on board to stand in front of Domri, then follow him up with Domri and fight to clear their board. Either way, if you can have one of the two in play on turn two, you're typically in good shape.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
Agreed, really depends on the board state, and what is in your hand, but either on turn 2 is amazing. That play is basically the only reason I am running Mystics still. Stormbreath a turn earlier is also great, but the t2 Smiter/Domri really can break someone.
G/R Monsters
Naya Aggro
Current Modern Decks:
RUG Splinter Twin
Boros Sunforger
Commander:
Kemba, Kha Regent
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Uril, the Miststalker
This article shows off Sylvan Carytid nicely, which I think is the missing link to let us play our 4-5 drops before the other guy does.
I really feel like there are 2 versions of Naya currently evolving. Both are great, but they are also different. One focuses on ramping into large creatures or monstrosities. The other focuses on early pressure through value creatures (and continuing pressure)
G/R Monsters
Naya Aggro
Current Modern Decks:
RUG Splinter Twin
Boros Sunforger
Commander:
Kemba, Kha Regent
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Uril, the Miststalker
Right. There's the Experiment One / Soldier of the Pantheon versions, and the Elvish Mystic / Sylvan Carytid versions.
I am not talking about from a budget standpoint
Might be the best creature in the deck? I will never play less than the full 4.
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Temple of Triumph
3 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
// Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Boros Reckoner
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Domri Rade
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
The caryatid makes us have 5 mana dorks which is kinda what we wanna have IMO.
The World Eater is there because its a creature that doubles as removal
the 1 Xenagos and 1 Chandra is there mostly because you dont ever wanna see the 2nd one.
Sweet sideboard cards he told me about that we were kinda oblivious to is
1 Keening Aparition
1 Hopeful Edilion
They pretty much double as spells that we can draw off domri
Keening = wear/tear for the most part
Hopeful = the 3rd unflinching courage that is also good against solider of the pantheon.
Also trying a Garruk over the 2nd Ruric Thar.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Which version are you running? If you are running 4x Elvish Mystic and some number of Caryatids, then the full 4 are probably best. If you are running the Experiment One/Soldier of the Pantheon version, then some lists play 0 (although I am not a fan).
I've tried that deck. IMO its really high variance and reminded me of Naya Blitz with slightly more reach but with a lot less explosiveness. I would not recommend that deck to anyone ever. You are much better off playing monowhite/boros/g/w/ rdw/etc then that deck.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I noticed you're running 1-ofs of Xenagos, Chandra, Polukranos and Sylvan. Is this just for your testing or do you intend to make that a permanent thing? I feel like Polukranos and Sylvan I would want to see frequently. I'm still trying to tune my list but my local meta is mostly aggro and control (I really want to learn to crush Dega!!) and I want a list that I can use successfully.
I understand cutting Polukranos down to 1. I've been running 2 and Domri always ends up getting me the second one when the first one is already in play. I hate doing that. Polukranos is already very difficult to remove aside from Hero's Downfall and the like, so drawing a second one is never a good feeling.
You'll get it less consistently, but you won't draw a dead card when you only have one in your deck.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
How would you deal with Desecration Demon? The new Dega and BW decks are an absolute nightmare to try to combat effectively. I main-board 2 charms but between 2-4 Demons and 2-3 Obzedats I can't deal with it effectively (I know I can't deal with BBoV either but I sideboard in Celestial Flare).
I have Plummets on my sideboard with DDemon in mind. Extremely easy to cast and kills him at instant speed. Also solves the issue of Dragons as well. BBV doesn't bother as our Dragons destroy him. I've also loved having Ooze main board since it completely resolves any issues that deck or other random whip decks would gives us.
And yes their creatures are scary but I think ours are scarier.
If you opt to not have him main board you can side Destructive Revelry in and get rid of it as it's a major factor of Midrange Mythic.
However, Kamahl, the Fallen probably has better info on it than I do since he championed that deck for a while I believe.
That matchup isnt nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. They have to put anti-control cards in their maindeck therefore making their aggro matchup slightly worse. So that gives us the chance to be able to capitalize on that. BBoV is the only thing that I worry about. I dont normally care about a DD unless its on like turn 3 and tthey are on the play(GB rock). We have VoR and manadorks we can tap their demon down with to be able to keep bringing beats. BBoV is the only one to care about. Obzedat we can make them keep him in play sometimes because of the pressre we have. BBoV we need the mortars for or the dragon + domri fight. Which is almost as likely as them having the BBoV so its not so bad.
Im running them as 1-ofs because I normally dont want to see more than 1. Caryatid is usually pretty bad but it mana fixes pretty good and helps ramp into 4/5 drops nicely.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Sac'ing a Voice to D Demon is an awesome play. Then you get a token that's about a 3/3 or a 4/4 to swing past their tapped demon next turn. If you can add a Stormbreath to that play, it's essentially game over. Then they have to use Demon on defense, which you can choose whether or not they get to block with it. I'm not really worried about removing the D demon. I'll save my removal for BBoV and their Stormbreaths.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.