Which also answers a lot of other things you would rather not two for 1 (Reckoner, Viskopa, Cerebus, Exava, Smiter) and several you you can't burn (Fleecemane, D sphere, Assemble, etc)
Hmm, going to have to get a couple of these and hold onto them just to see how my local meta shapes up. Using Glare of Heresy and Celestial Flare in my SB but these could have a spot as well.
I revised one of the initial decks with a flare of black. Dreadbore has made itself invaluable in other decks I've played and is very relevant to the format. Also 4 Mizzium Mortars maindeck as Im seeing a lot of Blood Baron of Vizkopa around these parts and when you get the mana can also serve as a board wipe.
Wondering about Rakdos Keyrune possibilities for this deck. Mana Ramp and the 3/1 first strike creature makes it an early blocker but it would throw off the devotion land mana count.
Hey everyone, I'm new to these forums (as you can see this is my first post), but I've been following this thread for a while, and felt like now was as good as a time as any to post my list and the changes that are from from it after going 3-1 tonight at Wednesday Night Magic. Here is my list:
The only games I lost all day were a 0-2 loss to Esper control. Blood Baron is hard to deal with, but Obzedat was really tough for my build. I've definitely decided to switch the Anger of the Gods to the sideboard, as I only used it once all night, and the other times I had a Chandra's Phoenix out.
Renounce the Guilds seems like a card I need to include as well as messing with the number of Lightning Strikes vs Magma Jet.
Anywho, I'm glad to finally be joining this discussion and lemme know what you guys think!
I revised one of the initial decks with a flare of black. Dreadbore has made itself invaluable in other decks I've played and is very relevant to the format. Also 4 Mizzium Mortars maindeck as Im seeing a lot of Blood Baron of Vizkopa around these parts and when you get the mana can also serve as a board wipe.
Wondering about Rakdos Keyrune possibilities for this deck. Mana Ramp and the 3/1 first strike creature makes it an early blocker but it would throw off the devotion land mana count.
Thoughts?
Maindeck looks fine, but I question the black splash only for Dreadbore. I would consider Rakdos's Return somewhere in the 60. Also consider a third Chandra. This kind of deck wants to see her every game.
As for the sideboard, it's a hot mess. What in the world could you possibly want 4 Slaughter Games for? Mindsparker is a subpar card to sideboard as well. Think about how you would like to optimize your list for certain matchups and design the sideboard accordingly.
Sorry to piggyback off you Big Red enthusiasts, but this seemed a more apt home for this question than starting a new thread. I've been playtesting Big Boros now for a few days. My list is essentially the same as most here. The main cards I'm picking up from white are:
Elspeth (2 MB)
Assemble the Legion (1 SB, and redundant w/ Elspeth)
Renounce the Guilds (1-2 SB)
Glare of Heresy (1-2 SB)
Celestial Flare (1 SB)
Warleader's Helix (3 MB, overlaps w/ Mizzium Mortars & worse against baby T-maw)
Essentially, it boils down to Elspeth and some utility spells. Elspeth is a win condition all on her own. She's a monster in the grindy, drawn-out game I'm playing. I've been playing her in UW control as well, and paired with Jace+1, it's a virtual lock.
As for the utility spells, all of them have viable alternatives either in mono red or in splashing black. In testing against U/W/x, I've had decent game 1s, and great games 2-3. I believe I would have even better luck going B/R for Dreadbore, Thoughtseize, and Rakdos Return while not hurting my matchup with aggro. Hero's Downfall replaces celestial flare for Obzedat and doubles as an answer to Jace, Elspeth, and Domri. Rakdos Return and Thoughtseize clear the way for Dragons and Chandra.
Note that I made no mention of Desecration Demon, as that guy doesn't really shine unless the field is full of midrange big guy decks (Jund, B/G, & B/W of the last standard season). He's awesome, but this isn't the time for him right now.
Any thoughts you have on the pros/cons of Boros vs. Rakdos are greatly appreciated. Again, sorry to ruin the Mono Red lovin' time you guys are having here.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
While you don't have a trump to Ætherling in Boros you do have Assemble and Elspeth which give U/W the shakes if they land. Depending on your setup you have a chance to burn or aggro them out. Hammer of purph is sick against control.
While you don't have a trump to Ætherling in Boros you do have Assemble and Elspeth which give U/W the shakes if they land. Depending on your setup you have a chance to burn or aggro them out. Hammer of purph is sick against control.
Agreed on all points. My essential gameplan against U/W/x has been to smartly present as many threats as possible, with obvious considerations to playing around counterspells, etc. If they counter Chandra, I'll follow it with a Dragon. If they Supreme Verdict to kill the dragon, they've got to deal with Elspeth or Assemble the Legion, of which, D.Sphere is their only real out. Chandra has been, by far, the best threat I can land, as she consistently provides card advantage on par with what U/W can do. Surprisingly, the majority of my wins have come from a combination of Chandra's Phoenix and Mutavaults, as they tend to hold back their removal and counters for the big threats. Also, Magma Jet has been an allstar, whether it's guaranteeing land drops, sweeping away mana flood, rebuying Chandra's Phoenix, or just picking off little guys.
My local meta is always heavily aggro/midrange, which are the exact games I'm looking to dominate. However, we have a handful of very good control players, and because I feel that the aggro matchup is already good for me, control is where I'm looking to improve the most. For now I'll likely stick with Boros, if for nothing else than I have a lot of fun playing Elspeth. For anyone interested, here's my current 75:
Thanks for the suggestions. Im now looking at this as my deck. Will be playtesting a third Chandra online to see how the pull rate goes
I may just be riding my current pet card, but I don't think you're going to regret a 3rd Chandra. In any matchup, I'm never disappointed to see her. She's been an absolute monster for me in every game I've tested her. It's actually got me interested in playing Modern again with the Chandra Jund lists that have been going around.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
BedroomRockStar, do you ever feel 4 Chandra is too much? Or are you comfortable at that amount?
Depends on your overall gameplan. I'm going long in virtually every matchup. If U/W/x falls off, I'd probably cut one, as I usually side 1 out versus more aggressive matchups. Otherwise, it's never a card I'm unhappy to draw. Running 26 lands plus scry mechanics, I rarely miss a land drop, and an early unanswered Chandra is very hard for U/W/x to deal with. I fully expect for them to remove the first Chandra with a D.Sphere. Having 4 copies forces the issue. If more efficient haste creatures come into the mix, I can also see removing the 4th copy. It works for me right now, but I fluctuate between 3 and 4. There are very justifiable reasons for cutting to 3, and I may go that way myself with more testing.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Now I'm no pro here or anything but In my opinion i think having 4 Chandra's is just 1 too many. I think you do want to see her but with 4 you may come across situations when you have her on the board and you have on in hand, and i think you may come across this situation more often than you would like. I would suggest taking out 1 Chandra and decide what you need.
You do make some good points, but again this is just my opinion but i think the 4th should be a side board, if that.
I'm running big red deck that valdarith posted, its something that made me run bigred. Anyways i have done some testing and i am throughly enjoying this deck. I'm mainly excited to show them not to laugh at pyromancers gauntlent, everytime i got it i was enjoyed. I will post my Fnm results tomorrow night. In hopes to get criticism and improve my skills as a player
You do make some good points, but again this is just my opinion but i think the 4th should be a side board, if that.
-RedMage
This is solid advice that I'm going to strongly consider. Like I said, I've waivered between 3 and 4, and 3 is logically the right number. Chandra is not a card like Liliana of the Veil where you can play one, pop the ability, and immediately play the extra in your hand for more value. And having one sitting in your hand or revealing a second copy with Chandra's 0 ability is definitely a feel bad moment.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
This is solid advice that I'm going to strongly consider. Like I said, I've waivered between 3 and 4, and 3 is logically the right number. Chandra is not a card like Liliana of the Veil where you can play one, pop the ability, and immediately play the extra in your hand for more value. And having one sitting in your hand or revealing a second copy with Chandra's 0 ability is definitely a feel bad moment.
Right now I run 4 reckoners, 4 weirds and 4 dragons in Big Boros. Should I fit in 4 Phoenixes? Yes or no and why?
And should Chained to the Rocks be cut completely? I kinda need it against big problem creatures.
I won't comment on the weirds as I personally am not running them, but the Phoenixes I would definitely see if you could fit them in. A 2/2 flying with haste for 1RR isn't bad, but the fact your Chandra/red spells can bring it back to your hand if it dies is the kicker.
Chained I have had some good success with, but pack a couple glare of heresy and celestial flare in your SB for when Blood Baron or Obzedat hits. Those are some of the biggest pains we have.
Renounce the Guilds
Hmm, going to have to get a couple of these and hold onto them just to see how my local meta shapes up. Using Glare of Heresy and Celestial Flare in my SB but these could have a spot as well.
Great idea!
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Ember Swallower
4 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands (25)
13 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Mutavault
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Dreadbore
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
Artifacts (2)
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Slaughter Games
4 Mindsparker
2 Madcap Skills
I revised one of the initial decks with a flare of black. Dreadbore has made itself invaluable in other decks I've played and is very relevant to the format. Also 4 Mizzium Mortars maindeck as Im seeing a lot of Blood Baron of Vizkopa around these parts and when you get the mana can also serve as a board wipe.
Wondering about Rakdos Keyrune possibilities for this deck. Mana Ramp and the 3/1 first strike creature makes it an early blocker but it would throw off the devotion land mana count.
Thoughts?
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Magma Jet
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Warleader's Helix
2 Shock
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Lightning Strike
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
13 Mountain
3 Boros Charm
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Pithing Needle
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Burning Earth
The only games I lost all day were a 0-2 loss to Esper control. Blood Baron is hard to deal with, but Obzedat was really tough for my build. I've definitely decided to switch the Anger of the Gods to the sideboard, as I only used it once all night, and the other times I had a Chandra's Phoenix out.
Renounce the Guilds seems like a card I need to include as well as messing with the number of Lightning Strikes vs Magma Jet.
Anywho, I'm glad to finally be joining this discussion and lemme know what you guys think!
Maindeck looks fine, but I question the black splash only for Dreadbore. I would consider Rakdos's Return somewhere in the 60. Also consider a third Chandra. This kind of deck wants to see her every game.
As for the sideboard, it's a hot mess. What in the world could you possibly want 4 Slaughter Games for? Mindsparker is a subpar card to sideboard as well. Think about how you would like to optimize your list for certain matchups and design the sideboard accordingly.
Elspeth (2 MB)
Assemble the Legion (1 SB, and redundant w/ Elspeth)
Renounce the Guilds (1-2 SB)
Glare of Heresy (1-2 SB)
Celestial Flare (1 SB)
Warleader's Helix (3 MB, overlaps w/ Mizzium Mortars & worse against baby T-maw)
Essentially, it boils down to Elspeth and some utility spells. Elspeth is a win condition all on her own. She's a monster in the grindy, drawn-out game I'm playing. I've been playing her in UW control as well, and paired with Jace+1, it's a virtual lock.
As for the utility spells, all of them have viable alternatives either in mono red or in splashing black. In testing against U/W/x, I've had decent game 1s, and great games 2-3. I believe I would have even better luck going B/R for Dreadbore, Thoughtseize, and Rakdos Return while not hurting my matchup with aggro. Hero's Downfall replaces celestial flare for Obzedat and doubles as an answer to Jace, Elspeth, and Domri. Rakdos Return and Thoughtseize clear the way for Dragons and Chandra.
Note that I made no mention of Desecration Demon, as that guy doesn't really shine unless the field is full of midrange big guy decks (Jund, B/G, & B/W of the last standard season). He's awesome, but this isn't the time for him right now.
Any thoughts you have on the pros/cons of Boros vs. Rakdos are greatly appreciated. Again, sorry to ruin the Mono Red lovin' time you guys are having here.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Ember Swallower
4 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands (25)
13 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
4 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Mutavault
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Dreadbore
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Magma Jet
Artifacts (2)
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Skullcrack
2 Pithing Needle
2 Devour Flesh
1 Ratchet Bomb
Thanks for the suggestions. Im now looking at this as my deck. Will be playtesting a third Chandra online to see how the pull rate goes.
Edit: Put in devour flesh for Obzedat instead of shock.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Agreed on all points. My essential gameplan against U/W/x has been to smartly present as many threats as possible, with obvious considerations to playing around counterspells, etc. If they counter Chandra, I'll follow it with a Dragon. If they Supreme Verdict to kill the dragon, they've got to deal with Elspeth or Assemble the Legion, of which, D.Sphere is their only real out. Chandra has been, by far, the best threat I can land, as she consistently provides card advantage on par with what U/W can do. Surprisingly, the majority of my wins have come from a combination of Chandra's Phoenix and Mutavaults, as they tend to hold back their removal and counters for the big threats. Also, Magma Jet has been an allstar, whether it's guaranteeing land drops, sweeping away mana flood, rebuying Chandra's Phoenix, or just picking off little guys.
My local meta is always heavily aggro/midrange, which are the exact games I'm looking to dominate. However, we have a handful of very good control players, and because I feel that the aggro matchup is already good for me, control is where I'm looking to improve the most. For now I'll likely stick with Boros, if for nothing else than I have a lot of fun playing Elspeth. For anyone interested, here's my current 75:
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Frostburn Weird (not thrilled with these, but I can't argue with their effectiveness)
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Aurelia, the Warleader (need another dragon)
Planeswalkers (6)
4 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Lands (26)
9 Mountain
6 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
4 Magma Jet
1 Shock
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Celestial Flare
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Wear // Tear
3 Burning Earth
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Renounce the Guilds
1 Anger of the Gods
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
I may just be riding my current pet card, but I don't think you're going to regret a 3rd Chandra. In any matchup, I'm never disappointed to see her. She's been an absolute monster for me in every game I've tested her. It's actually got me interested in playing Modern again with the Chandra Jund lists that have been going around.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Depends on your overall gameplan. I'm going long in virtually every matchup. If U/W/x falls off, I'd probably cut one, as I usually side 1 out versus more aggressive matchups. Otherwise, it's never a card I'm unhappy to draw. Running 26 lands plus scry mechanics, I rarely miss a land drop, and an early unanswered Chandra is very hard for U/W/x to deal with. I fully expect for them to remove the first Chandra with a D.Sphere. Having 4 copies forces the issue. If more efficient haste creatures come into the mix, I can also see removing the 4th copy. It works for me right now, but I fluctuate between 3 and 4. There are very justifiable reasons for cutting to 3, and I may go that way myself with more testing.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
You do make some good points, but again this is just my opinion but i think the 4th should be a side board, if that.
-RedMage
This is solid advice that I'm going to strongly consider. Like I said, I've waivered between 3 and 4, and 3 is logically the right number. Chandra is not a card like Liliana of the Veil where you can play one, pop the ability, and immediately play the extra in your hand for more value. And having one sitting in your hand or revealing a second copy with Chandra's 0 ability is definitely a feel bad moment.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Just happy to help a fellow mtg player
-RedMage
And should Chained to the Rocks be cut completely? I kinda need it against big problem creatures.
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Frostburn Weird
3 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands (25)
13 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Boros Charm
1 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Glare of Heresy
3 Mizzium Mortars
I won't comment on the weirds as I personally am not running them, but the Phoenixes I would definitely see if you could fit them in. A 2/2 flying with haste for 1RR isn't bad, but the fact your Chandra/red spells can bring it back to your hand if it dies is the kicker.
Chained I have had some good success with, but pack a couple glare of heresy and celestial flare in your SB for when Blood Baron or Obzedat hits. Those are some of the biggest pains we have.
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG