Guildmage is so so strong. I am trying to work one more in for 3 total. I just cannot find th room. Sometimes heliod is stronger and sometimes guildmage is stronger. For now I have a 2/2 split.
Hey guys! long time no post... been busy working on studies and getting my new company off the grounds... I got to play last friday though and test the deck out quite a bit more, notably adding a 3rd kalonian, taking out Elspeth for the slot.
All I have to say is that consistently getting a Kalonian Hydra is one of the best feelings with the deck. Being able to play it on an opponents turn and and swinging for massive damage next turn is incredible.
The only difficult matchup I had was against mono red, it was a fair fight though and I almost won, 2-1. I was gaining a lot of board presence near the end of the match but wasnt fast enough early game and he was able to burn me in the end. 2nd game he simply got stomped on very quickly with ramp, prophet and kalonian. Jace helped quite a bit as well.
Some last changes I want to try is 2x Heliod instead of Thassa. The scry each turn is great but I'm starting to learn it isnt always terribly necessary; the vigilance is quite nice with heliod, and he also makes tokens (albiet smaller) like Vitu Guildmage but for a more affordable price.
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
So the basic idea of the deck is the form around the Angel, chimera and mage combo. Within that, are smaller combos if they don't get off the ground. Mage then play Omen, scry then draw.
I'm working to obtain at least two sphinx's and working those in deck, also a third archangel to improve consistency.
Garruk is a nice all-star of this deck. Albeit not powerful in the way that Elspeth is, when he comes down, I always hear a groan or a "that's a garruk". His plus 1 or minus 3 is pretty good depending on what I want to do at the moment. If prophet hits field before hand, the plus 1 is very nice, otherwise if I need to get a creature on the field quick and in a hurry, minus 3 works perfectly.
I do have a question. I have 8 mana producers main deck. Is 23 lands too low? Thoughts please for I'm trying to refine this deck
The reasoning behind my changes was one, Kalonian Hydra is insane when you can flash him in, and then attack on your turn doubling all your counters (especially if you have master biomancer in and hydra comes in with 6 counters instead). Jace seemed like just more card draw, and although that was nice it plays a little nicer to have syncopate and dissolve for things like rakdos return, etc. The bountys just didn't have a huge effect in most games, by the time I wanted to cast them I was already winning by a ton. DSphere helps with planeswalker threats etc.
My hardest match was anything with red, anger of the gods is brutal early game and stormbreath is almost impossible to deal with unless I counter it. I'm thinking of putting Rapid Hybridization into the sideboard.
Also, been testing with Bramblecrush... it's pretty sweet to destroy a crucial land on turn 3, works on planeswalkers and other stuff late game too. Thoughts on that?
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Would you consider Simic Charm over Voyage's End? Also, how does the deck feel without all the mana dorks?
Not a bad idea TBH. On the mana dork note, I run 7. That is the perfect amount to me. And as I try to keep my mana base closer to UG I like that Satyr and Caryatid both can make white for the WW in the Angel.
What I initially missed was that when you played a Non-creature spell with Primeval Bounty and Fathom Mage out you can draw 3 cards off off the 3 counter trigger. Also Mana Bloom is really awesome with Bounty out. Honestly think Bounty is by far and away the best card in my deck.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Not a bad idea TBH. On the mana dork note, I run 7. That is the perfect amount to me. And as I try to keep my mana base closer to UG I like that Satyr and Caryatid both can make white for the WW in the Angel.
What I initially missed was that when you played a Non-creature spell with Primeval Bounty and Fathom Mage out you can draw 3 cards off off the 3 counter trigger. Also Mana Bloom is really awesome with Bounty out. Honestly think Bounty is by far and away the best card in my deck.
Bounty is really good, I haven't been running it though just because it often sits in my hand when I have a full hand of stuff there are better things to cast. What's the interaction between bounty and mana bloom?
Bounty is really good, I haven't been running it though just because it often sits in my hand when I have a full hand of stuff there are better things to cast. What's the interaction between bounty and mana bloom?
Bloom costs 2 mana to cast, but gives 1 back making it a 1 mana spell. As a "non-creature spell", it will proc 3 +1/+1 counters clause on Primeval Bounty. So it's +3/+3 to any creature. Then, you get mana bloom back to your hand the next turn assuming you use it's mana. So essentially, it is every turn +3/+3 on a creature for 1 mana.
Bloom costs 2 mana to cast, but gives 1 back making it a 1 mana spell. As a "non-creature spell", it will proc 3 +1/+1 counters clause on Primeval Bounty. So it's +3/+3 to any creature. Then, you get mana bloom back to your hand the next turn assuming you use it's mana. So essentially, it is every turn +3/+3 on a creature for 1 mana.
Yep. I actually find that having the 10 turn 2 mana ramp pieces makes playing Bounty much easier. I may put the Acolyte back in. I'm still not sure though as the Satyr has done some good work for me.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Also, been testing with Bramblecrush... it's pretty sweet to destroy a crucial land on turn 3, works on planeswalkers and other stuff late game too. Thoughts on that?
I'd say its a must for the sideboard, so versatile
So, I've gotten to playtest a lot now, and there's a number of different directions this deck can go. At this point I'm pretty much ruling out midrange beats. While it's good against the majority of the field, I keep falling a turn shy against Mono-U Devotion because they're so well pre-boarded for anti-green with Tidebinder. I don't think the deck is dead though. I think I plan on testing a more heavy flash version to see what I can do there playing a stronger control shell. So, full counter suite and plenty of removal and sweeps in the main for the new build. Also... has anyone else noticed how awesome Annul is right now?
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Currently Playing:UWBRG MAGIC: The Gathering UWBRG
This is the deck I ran for Game day. When 4-1. My only lost was to U devotion and he got it barely. He top decked a master of waves to attack for exactly 17 life. He only had 2 left in his deck and was his only out to win the game. I had him dead on board at 6 life with a 6/6 mistcutter. This deck is stupid powerful. Prophet is too good not to be playing right now. I got a double tap mana off of prophet and sphinxed for 18 one game.
Centaur Healer is a hedge vs the aggro decks and helps me recoup some life from the shock lands. I have more anti-aggro in the sideboard. The main match up isn't bad anyways. I don't know if it is needed at all really. D-sphere and VoR seem to be good enough vs aggro as it is. This might turn into boon satyr.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Yeah that doesn't work the way he thinks it does. You cant' play spells or make any other game actions other than untapping during the untap step.
So that I've seen thus far the deck is just a little too fragile to be a real contender. Prophet dies to most of the commonly played removal and if that isn't an issue she is also green which makes her a prime target for Lifebane Zombie. Certainly a fun deck to play at your FNM, but not something to take to a GP or PTQ.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Yeah that doesn't work the way he thinks it does. You cant' play spells or make any other game actions other than untapping during the untap step.
So that I've seen thus far the deck is just a little too fragile to be a real contender. Prophet dies to most of the commonly played removal and if that isn't an issue she is also green which makes her a prime target for Lifebane Zombie. Certainly a fun deck to play at your FNM, but not something to take to a GP or PTQ.
Yep, this has been a problem with most of the big green creature decks, and a reason why Simic evolve really hasn't been that competitive outside a one-off showing here and there. Simic Charm might help protect the prophet with all the red and black pinpoint removal in the current meta (not to mention Tidebinder Mage and Lifebane Zombie), but the Colossal Gruul deck is probably better at winning with big creatures (the mostrosity effects of the Arbor Colossus and Polukranos helps in many matchups).
I am waiting for a deck to exploit Zegana and the Progenitor Mimic. That would be amusing.
You are correct. Checked the rules and no player gains priority during untap step.
You don't need to protect prophet. Really he is a huge distraction. If left unchecked will walk away with a game. It is a must answer threat that is free to cast. Most of my games were won with Vitu-Gazi Guildmage and Primeval Bounty. Angel of Serenity is the best finisher we have in our colors. Sylvan Primordial is very very close as well. He stops nykthos, stormbreath dragon, Underworld connections, God weapons, and planeswalkers.
I really want to fit Cyclonic Rift in the deck but its already hard pressed for room as it is. Added the 2 Sylesnia Charm last minute to deal with B/W.
You are correct. Checked the rules and no player gains priority during untap step.
You don't need to protect prophet. Really he is a huge distraction. If left unchecked will walk away with a game. It is a must answer threat that is free to cast. Most of my games were won with Vitu-Gazi Guildmage and Primeval Bounty. Angel of Serenity is the best finisher we have in our colors. Sylvan Primordial is very very close as well. He stops nykthos, stormbreath dragon, Underworld connections, God weapons, and planeswalkers.
As long as we are talking about Prophet, there are two things that go really well with Prophet... Creature cards in hand, and creature protection spells.
1) With a steady stream of creature cards, Prophet becomes very good, very fast. She gives the mana to overwhelm the board, while also allowing for great "trick" plays and only instant speed counter plays. She gives the whole team vigilance so you can swing in again and again.
2) With creature protection spells, and particularly board protection spells, Prophet stays online and so does the team she assembles. Nothing is better than nullifying a Supreme Verdict or other effect to keep a superior board prescence.
SUMMARY:
What does it all mean? I don't know. I just know that some combination of these cards is what Prophet needs to "break out" into viability. I love Prophet and I believe she has what it takes to be a dominant force in Standard, the question is what synergizes well with her to make it happen.
IMO the very best cards to engine and protect Prophet are probably Garruk/Underworld Connections, and Golgari Charm/Rootborn.
All I have to say is that consistently getting a Kalonian Hydra is one of the best feelings with the deck. Being able to play it on an opponents turn and and swinging for massive damage next turn is incredible.
The only difficult matchup I had was against mono red, it was a fair fight though and I almost won, 2-1. I was gaining a lot of board presence near the end of the match but wasnt fast enough early game and he was able to burn me in the end. 2nd game he simply got stomped on very quickly with ramp, prophet and kalonian. Jace helped quite a bit as well.
Some last changes I want to try is 2x Heliod instead of Thassa. The scry each turn is great but I'm starting to learn it isnt always terribly necessary; the vigilance is quite nice with heliod, and he also makes tokens (albiet smaller) like Vitu Guildmage but for a more affordable price.
Melira Pod - Modern
^That made me build this:
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Mystery
6 Island
6 Forest
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Sylvan Primordial
3 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Syncopate
3 Mana Bloom
3 Primeval Bounty
3 Cyclonic Rift
4 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Karametra's Acolyte
2 Horizon Chimera
2 Archangel of Thune
2 Fathom Mage
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Fleecemane Lion
4 Omenspeaker
4 Fathom Mage
4 Horizon Chimera
2 Archangel of Thune
2 Prophet of Kruphix
Spells (2)
2 Dispel
2 Gift of Immortality
4 Detention Sphere
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Land (23)
4 Forest
3 Plains
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Breeding Pool
3 Temple Garden
1 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Mizzium Skin
2 Gods Willing
2 Triton Tactics
2 Naturalize
2 Bioshift
1 Dispel
1 Plummet
2 Give // Take
1 Fog
So the basic idea of the deck is the form around the Angel, chimera and mage combo. Within that, are smaller combos if they don't get off the ground. Mage then play Omen, scry then draw.
I'm working to obtain at least two sphinx's and working those in deck, also a third archangel to improve consistency.
Garruk is a nice all-star of this deck. Albeit not powerful in the way that Elspeth is, when he comes down, I always hear a groan or a "that's a garruk". His plus 1 or minus 3 is pretty good depending on what I want to do at the moment. If prophet hits field before hand, the plus 1 is very nice, otherwise if I need to get a creature on the field quick and in a hurry, minus 3 works perfectly.
I do have a question. I have 8 mana producers main deck. Is 23 lands too low? Thoughts please for I'm trying to refine this deck
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Horizon Chimera
2 Master Biomancer
2 Archangel of Thune
3 Prophet of Kruphix
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
2 Angel of Serenity
3 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Primeval Bounty
Lands:25
4 Breeding Pool
5 Forest
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Detention Sphere
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Unflinching Courage
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 AEtherling
I like this list a lot, I've been testing it with some changes:
- 2 Archangel of Thune
+2 Kalonian Hyrdra
-3 Jace, Architect of Thought
+2 Syncopate
+1 Dissolve
-2 Primeval Bounty
+2 Detention Sphere
The reasoning behind my changes was one, Kalonian Hydra is insane when you can flash him in, and then attack on your turn doubling all your counters (especially if you have master biomancer in and hydra comes in with 6 counters instead). Jace seemed like just more card draw, and although that was nice it plays a little nicer to have syncopate and dissolve for things like rakdos return, etc. The bountys just didn't have a huge effect in most games, by the time I wanted to cast them I was already winning by a ton. DSphere helps with planeswalker threats etc.
My hardest match was anything with red, anger of the gods is brutal early game and stormbreath is almost impossible to deal with unless I counter it. I'm thinking of putting Rapid Hybridization into the sideboard.
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Mystery
5 Island
6 Forest
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Prophet of Kruphix
3 Primeval Bounty
3 Cyclonic Rift
4 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Horizon Chimera
2 Archangel of Thune
2 Fathom Mage
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Voyage's End
2 Urban Evolution
3 Mana Bloom
3 Voyaging Satyr
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Would you consider Simic Charm over Voyage's End? Also, how does the deck feel without all the mana dorks?
Not a bad idea TBH. On the mana dork note, I run 7. That is the perfect amount to me. And as I try to keep my mana base closer to UG I like that Satyr and Caryatid both can make white for the WW in the Angel.
What I initially missed was that when you played a Non-creature spell with Primeval Bounty and Fathom Mage out you can draw 3 cards off off the 3 counter trigger. Also Mana Bloom is really awesome with Bounty out. Honestly think Bounty is by far and away the best card in my deck.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Bounty is really good, I haven't been running it though just because it often sits in my hand when I have a full hand of stuff there are better things to cast. What's the interaction between bounty and mana bloom?
Bloom costs 2 mana to cast, but gives 1 back making it a 1 mana spell. As a "non-creature spell", it will proc 3 +1/+1 counters clause on Primeval Bounty. So it's +3/+3 to any creature. Then, you get mana bloom back to your hand the next turn assuming you use it's mana. So essentially, it is every turn +3/+3 on a creature for 1 mana.
Yep. I actually find that having the 10 turn 2 mana ramp pieces makes playing Bounty much easier. I may put the Acolyte back in. I'm still not sure though as the Satyr has done some good work for me.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I'd say its a must for the sideboard, so versatile
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Centaur Healer is a hedge vs the aggro decks and helps me recoup some life from the shock lands. I have more anti-aggro in the sideboard. The main match up isn't bad anyways. I don't know if it is needed at all really. D-sphere and VoR seem to be good enough vs aggro as it is. This might turn into boon satyr.
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple Garden
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple of Mystery
3 Plains
2 Forest
2 Island
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Centaur Healer
3 Vitu-Gazi Guildmage
3 Prophet of Kruphix
3 Angel of Serenity
2 Primeval Bounty
3 Detention Sphere
Instant
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Dissolve
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Yeah that doesn't work the way he thinks it does. You cant' play spells or make any other game actions other than untapping during the untap step.
So that I've seen thus far the deck is just a little too fragile to be a real contender. Prophet dies to most of the commonly played removal and if that isn't an issue she is also green which makes her a prime target for Lifebane Zombie. Certainly a fun deck to play at your FNM, but not something to take to a GP or PTQ.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Deck list got 3rd-4th at a TCQ in Illinois.
2 Angel of Serenity
2 Archangel of Thune
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Horizon Chimera
4 Manaweft Sliver
2 Master Biomancer
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
3 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
Spells: 5
2 Primeval Bounty
3 Sphinx's Revelation
Lands: 25
4 Breeding Pool
5 Forest
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Mystery
1 AEtherling
1 Detention Sphere
1 Jace, Memory Adept
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Mistcutter Hydra
4 Unflinching Courage
Yep, this has been a problem with most of the big green creature decks, and a reason why Simic evolve really hasn't been that competitive outside a one-off showing here and there. Simic Charm might help protect the prophet with all the red and black pinpoint removal in the current meta (not to mention Tidebinder Mage and Lifebane Zombie), but the Colossal Gruul deck is probably better at winning with big creatures (the mostrosity effects of the Arbor Colossus and Polukranos helps in many matchups).
I am waiting for a deck to exploit Zegana and the Progenitor Mimic. That would be amusing.
You don't need to protect prophet. Really he is a huge distraction. If left unchecked will walk away with a game. It is a must answer threat that is free to cast. Most of my games were won with Vitu-Gazi Guildmage and Primeval Bounty. Angel of Serenity is the best finisher we have in our colors. Sylvan Primordial is very very close as well. He stops nykthos, stormbreath dragon, Underworld connections, God weapons, and planeswalkers.
I really want to fit Cyclonic Rift in the deck but its already hard pressed for room as it is. Added the 2 Sylesnia Charm last minute to deal with B/W.
As long as we are talking about Prophet, there are two things that go really well with Prophet... Creature cards in hand, and creature protection spells.
1) With a steady stream of creature cards, Prophet becomes very good, very fast. She gives the mana to overwhelm the board, while also allowing for great "trick" plays and only instant speed counter plays. She gives the whole team vigilance so you can swing in again and again.
To have creatures in hand, the very best permanents to "engine" Prophet turn after turn are:
Garruk, Caller Of Beasts
Domri Rade
Jace, Architect Of Thought
Jace, Memory Adept
Underworld Connections
and possibly Chandra, Pyromaster, and Erebos, God Of The Dead.
Although other card draw spurts can do well to fuel Prophet in shorter bursts:
Sphinx's Revelation
Prime Speaker Zegana
Opportunity
2) With creature protection spells, and particularly board protection spells, Prophet stays online and so does the team she assembles. Nothing is better than nullifying a Supreme Verdict or other effect to keep a superior board prescence.
Team protection spells (nonFogs):
Golgari Charm
Rootborn Defenses
Ready Willing
Boros Charm
Legion's Initiative
Targeted Protection Spells
Simic Charm
God's Willing
Mizzium Skin
Ranger's Guile
SUMMARY:
What does it all mean? I don't know. I just know that some combination of these cards is what Prophet needs to "break out" into viability. I love Prophet and I believe she has what it takes to be a dominant force in Standard, the question is what synergizes well with her to make it happen.
IMO the very best cards to engine and protect Prophet are probably Garruk/Underworld Connections, and Golgari Charm/Rootborn.
Any other thoughts on this?