This is my list. I haven't been able to test it out yet other than about 8 games against mono black devotion. I quite like it but would like some sort of guidance if this is the right direction for it.
Wild Ricochet is like my pet card. I really want to try it out and don't want to cut it just yet. Otherwise, I like the feel of it. I think it needs something though.
Solid list overall, pretty similar to mine
If you're playing without Keyrune, you may need either Magma Jet or a 3rd Read the Bones to make sure you can get to Desecration Demon mana on time.
3 Mainboard Doom Blades may also be excessive considering how much I am seeing Mono-Black Devotion. I would consider bringing either Ultimate Price or Devour Flesh into the main for some of those. Maybe something like 4 Dreadbore, 1 Doom Blade, 1 Ultimate Price, 1 Devour Flesh for 2CMC removal.
Mutavault was accidentally omitted from the last list, which is why it was 22 lands and 56 cards. It should be updated now.
It's fine if you disagree about Stormbreath Dragon, but providing specific prevalent MUs where it is good (and Pack Rat or other MD cards are bad) would be more conducive towards discussion. My argument is not that it is a bad card; it is that the current meta, at least online and at most larger events, is one that hinders stormbreath, and greatly helps Pack Rat. I'm also not sure if 0 is the right number; 4 however, simply feels like too much against most devotion decks.
Of course, there are exceptions. Max Tietze just had a top 8 finish with his UW list. Yet, that seems to be the exception, not the rule.
If you're playing without Keyrune, you may need either Magma Jet or a 3rd Read the Bones to make sure you can get to Desecration Demon mana on time.
3 Mainboard Doom Blades may also be excessive considering how much I am seeing Mono-Black Devotion. I would consider bringing either Ultimate Price or Devour Flesh into the main for some of those. Maybe something like 4 Dreadbore, 1 Doom Blade, 1 Ultimate Price, 1 Devour Flesh for 2CMC removal.
thanks. i switched doom blade for devour flesh. feel it's a better card. i'll try and sneak a 3rd read the bones in there.
any love for sire of insanity or master of cruelties in the main?
i've been using them to good effect in conjunction with magma jet and thoughtseize as a 1-2 combo sorta thing.
any love for sire of insanity or master of cruelties in the main?
i've been using them to good effect in conjunction with magma jet and thoughtseize as a 1-2 combo sorta thing.
Sire and Rakdos Return roughly fill the same slot, but sire providing a fatty is sometimes just more important than keeping your own hand intact (I'm actually often near-hellbent anyway when I fire it off).
Master is too cute. It makes you want to play a bad card in your deck (magma jet), and actually *decreases* the amount of pressure you're putting on the opponent while actually committing something to the board. Mutavaults and Keyrunes already do that job excellently. Also, Master isn't resilient enough. The demon/dragon/keyrune trifecta pretty much forces decks to have an extremely diverse removal suite and to have the right removal at the right time. About the only card that kills everything is hero's downfall, but that's okay.
This is my current revision and I've only been losing due to pilot error.
Of course, the removal package is extremely flexible and depends entirely on what you expect to see, but this is what's currently working decently in my meta. Also, yes, that's two Thoughtflare. They're awesome and even with only 4 U sources I consistently get the one U I need by the time I would actually want to cast the card. If you're scared of not getting blue, a couple more U sources should be just fine, and also power up the far//away more consistently too.
I'm really glad you bumped this, I been thinking about playing this for days now.
I'm really surprised to see 0 keyrune in that last list.
All the good things about it s have likely already been stated but seems to be missing.
Ultimately, the only problem with this deck is that the wincons aren't invincible, and don't kill you outright.
also... thoughtflare... before I talk bad about it I'll test it. but... feel kinda doubtful.
The thoughtflare are pretty much in the same slot as chandra used to be, but chandra tended to just eat a downfall and not really do what I needed her to. Both thoughtflare and rakdos return resemble sphinx's rev, so our 4 of rev-alikes pairs well with their 4 actual revs. IMO, a well timed Return is actually much more powerful than Rev, but a lot harder to play correctly.
~Pack rat is amazing.
I'm not sure why others aren't running it. Turn 1 thoughtseize + turn 2 pack rat on the play is extremely hard for U devotion or B devotion to beat. And that's half the meta. An early pack rat in general is very tough for U devotion to race - especially if you have an answer to Master of the Waves. Cyclonic Rift, Domestication and Rapid Hybridization are not run in large enough quantities to provide a reliable answer. Often, U devotion will be forced to play a turn 1/2 Rapid Hybridization on your rat. Even if they follow up with a Tidebinder Mage, you have generally have enough removal to get a 3/3 out of the deal. And as everyone knows from the dreaded mirror, pack rat is amazing against B devotion. It isn't great against esper, but it forces them to have an answer. Even two rats and a Mutavault swing for 8 a turn. Especially in game one, you can discard your dead cards and force them to use their verdicts and D spheres. And of course, you can always save removal to kill a rat in response to the D sphere. Don't get me wrong - I normally board down to 1-2 depending on the esper list. Still, they seem much better in practice than in theory.
~The removal for the deck is still a mess.
I've changed things around, and I've never been quite happy. The only thing I've concluded, is that if you don't play 2-3 drop creatures, and you don't play Sphinx's Revelation, 3 mana is a lot to pay for a removal spell. I'm down to one Hero's Downfall, and if Master of Waves wasn't a card, I'd cut them completely MD. Shocks aren't great, but they're good against U devotion (keyrune into shock / thoughtseize turn 3). They're also decent against B devotion in the Pack Rat races. I've cut them before, but my WW, R devotion, Rakdos Aggro and Boss Slight MUs all suffer quite a bit. Esper is the real MU that running shock hurts, although it does occasionally kill a Jace.
~I'd suggest there isn't a good 5-6 drop for the deck.
I've thoroughly tested Stormbreath Dragon, and I've not been impressed. It frankly doesn't do much against U devotion, although to be fair, Master of Cruelties and Desecration Demon are countered by Master of Waves. Yet, it's a bit of a moot point - Stormbreath isn't going to race a sizable amount of tokens either. Stormbreath also has poor protection against B devotion. All of the MB removal in the deck hits it. Right now, a black multicolored creature is a good place to be against the deck. Post-board, Dark Betrayal blanks on Stormbreath, but the card typically has enough targets between demon and rats. Stormbreath has a notable advantage (and is quite a good card) against esper/UW/American control; generally I'd agree that d sphere and charm protection outweighs doom blade and ultimate price protection. Still, the numbers esper is posting online is much lower than B and U devotion.
Chandra has been fine, but not great. She's great against most of the aggro decks of the format, and is "okay" against control, but she's usually not where you want to be against devotion decks. U can race (and has poor answers to things like demon anyways) and B can downfall her after you're forced to +1 her the first turn.
This is purely a meta-call against devotion - I run Stormbreath Dragons and Chandras in my paper list, since the meta game has less U and B devotion.
I'm not a big fan of Master of Cruelties, despite it's capability to steal wins in games you're behind in. Still, it's a "must-block" for the devotion decks, and keeps their board-presence low as a result. As such, I prefer it over Stormbreath Dragon or Chandra online. Yes, Stormbreath Dragon is a much better card than Master of Cruelties, but it doesn't mesh well with the deck or the current meta. I'm really hoping we get a solid 5-6 drop out of the next set. Outside Rakdos's Return, it's certainly a weak spot of the deck. Along with tinkering with the removal, I'd love to replace the two Master of Cruelties I'm currently running. The problem is finding an effective 5/6 drop in RB that fits the deck.
~ Keyrunes are good.
It took cutting them to realize just how good ramping into a Rakdos Return and then playing offense/defense with a difficult to removal 3/1 first strike is.
~ The deck is good.
I've been playing both 8 and 2 man queues for the last month or so. It's been almost 200 games, and I've been bouncing just below 1800 rating online; roughly a 75% win ratio (against 1600 avg). The last time I hit 1800 in standard was with caw-blade; I normally am around 1700 (~%64) in constructed.
Assemble the Legion (or a number of cards or decks) could surge and drastically alter things. But the for moment, BR midrange seems well placed in the meta.
I'm not sure why others aren't running it. Turn 1 thoughtseize + turn 2 pack rat on the play is extremely hard for U devotion or B devotion to beat. And that's half the meta. An early pack rat in general is very tough for U devotion to race - especially if you have an answer to Master of the Waves. Cyclonic Rift, Domestication and Rapid Hybridization are not run in large enough quantities to provide a reliable answer. Often, U devotion will be forced to play a turn 1/2 Rapid Hybridization on your rat. Even if they follow up with a Tidebinder Mage, you have generally have enough removal to get a 3/3 out of the deal. And as everyone knows from the dreaded mirror, pack rat is amazing against B devotion. It isn't great against esper, but it forces them to have an answer. Even two rats and a Mutavault swing for 8 a turn. Especially in game one, you can discard your dead cards and force them to use their verdicts and D spheres. And of course, you can always save removal to kill a rat in response to the D sphere. Don't get me wrong - I normally board down to 1-2 depending on the esper list. Still, they seem much better in practice than in theory.
The downsides of Pack Rat are extremely hard to swallow. It's an inherently all-in snowball card, so against devotion that has a hard time stopping the snowball it's great, but it's pretty bad against anything else. Without underworld connections, it heavily stifles your game development. A pretty decent analogue from days past would be Masticore, which similarly constricts your resources, but generally still worth playing. The option to throw otherwise dead cards to the rat is nice though, but I'd generally think it's a mistake to throw useful cards to it (unless of course, it's against devotion and they're going to Just Die). Another card in standard that has to be played pretty carefully in a similar way is Lotleth Troll. I've played against GB and the better players definitely know to hold off on it because discarding a card is one of the most costly things you can do in magic.
~The removal for the deck is still a mess.
I've changed things around, and I've never been quite happy. The only thing I've concluded, is that if you don't play 2-3 drop creatures, and you don't play Sphinx's Revelation, 3 mana is a lot to pay for a removal spell. I'm down to one Hero's Downfall, and if Master of Waves wasn't a card, I'd cut them completely MD. Shocks aren't great, but they're good against U devotion (keyrune into shock / thoughtseize turn 3). They're also decent against B devotion in the Pack Rat races. I've cut them before, but my WW, R devotion, Rakdos Aggro and Boss Slight MUs all suffer quite a bit. Esper is the real MU that running shock hurts, although it does occasionally kill a Jace.
Right now I like:
3x anger
3x dreadbore
3x downfall
2-3 away or devours (I like away since I have U temples)
2x mortars
with the 4th anger and 4 Pharika's Cure in the side. Cure is much much better than shock, since most shock targets about 2 power anyway, so even if you have to take a hit it comes out even and later when you're just sitting on mana and you don't need to take a hit, the two life is very nice. It's also the cleanest solution around for Master.
~I'd suggest there isn't a good 5-6 drop for the deck.
I've thoroughly tested Stormbreath Dragon, and I've not been impressed. It frankly doesn't do much against U devotion, although to be fair, Master of Cruelties and Desecration Demon are countered by Master of Waves. Yet, it's a bit of a moot point - Stormbreath isn't going to race a sizable amount of tokens either. Stormbreath also has poor protection against B devotion. All of the MB removal in the deck hits it. Right now, a black multicolored creature is a good place to be against the deck. Post-board, Dark Betrayal blanks on Stormbreath, but the card typically has enough targets between demon and rats. Stormbreath has a notable advantage (and is quite a good card) against esper/UW/American control; generally I'd agree that d sphere and charm protection outweighs doom blade and ultimate price protection. Still, the numbers esper is posting online is much lower than B and U devotion.
Chandra has been fine, but not great. She's great against most of the aggro decks of the format, and is "okay" against control, but she's usually not where you want to be against devotion decks. U can race (and has poor answers to things like demon anyways) and B can downfall her after you're forced to +1 her the first turn.
This is purely a meta-call against devotion - I run Stormbreath Dragons and Chandras in my paper list, since the meta game has less U and B devotion.
That's an extreme meta-call for online, and almost certainly a mistake in paper. This deck is capable of crushing anything if it's built to do so, the real trick is to not totally crush any one matchup at the cost of almost anything else but be favored against "everything". This configuration looks like it's built to crush aggro and devotion, but hugely sacrifices the UWx matchup. My current build crushes aggro and UWx, but is rather soft to devotion, so I could use some Rats in there.
One of the biggest advantages that esper has is that all their removal can more-or-less deal with anything. Dragon plays an extremely important role in forcing specific premium answers (downfall, particularly). They only run 4 downfalls at most, but with mutavault and dragon, you have 8 must-kill threats for those downfalls. I've actually felt that Demon is the most underwhelming threat, and if anything you should put the dragons back in and cut the Demons. Both rat and demon are vulnerable along the same angle, and often serve a similar role of just being a lightning rod for removal.
Around here white weenie boros is pretty popular, and dragon just completely invalidates their entire deck singlehandedly. I ran without dragon before I acquired them, and consistently Just Lost to a resolved Elspeth.
So I've not played B/R Control but I've been playing BWR for a while, and I feel the third color has been hurting more than helping.. however, white seems to be the only permanent way to deal with assemble tokens, besides Illness in the Ranks.
I'm curious how something like this would work (I hate DD and just traded my playset)
Now the reasoning I have for the white splash is that cards like Blood Baron/Sin Collector/Tear and even Chained are so strong that they deserve to be looked at, I like it better than the blue splash I see being tossed around on here. My list looks a little different than most here.
Hammer is pretty hilarious with Pack Rat, and the ability to whip back pack rat if they somehow kill it is pretty amazing too.
Chained is pretty good unconditional removal to kill anything besides an opposing Stormbreath.
Sin Collector is pretty self explanatory in the Esper matchup, and can be whipped back.
I'm not sold on the land count/way it's set up. It does get us some much needed scrying, though.
Underworld connections is just a better card with Pack Rat than Read the Bones.
Hello guys, I have been playing Rakdos Control since almost the beginning of Theros standard. I am posting the list I am currently running but I'd like to say that every minor or major changes I have made so far, all of them had always led me to a 3-1+ result at FNMs. Only once I got a 2-2 with this deck and it was a really bad day. Haven't gotten the time to go to major tournaments yet but this is going to be my go-to deck probably.
First of all I think this is one of the most powerful and underrated deck in the format. I would like to discuss some of my choices and I hope for some constructive criticism.
Stormbreath dragon and Sire of Insanity. The thing is, you can't run both of em. I kept playing Sire for a couple of weeks and it just ended up in a tense topdeck race. I was mostly winning but it was pretty rough and so draw depended that I wouldn't want to coin toss my important games. Stormbreath dragons on the other hand are more stable in that regard, less mana intensive and almost always guaranteed damage. The pro white also makes them good againt azorius control or esper control.
Rakdos keyrune is simply amazing. The deck is generally mana hungry and it will help you ramp as well as be a constant beater in the end.
Whip is up for discussion. As an one of it can be great for finisher and stabilizing. Not having the ability to run any other life gain is really bad for a control deck and whip allows for at least some life gain.
Running 4 Anger of the gods in a format with so many aggro decks is absolutely valid. Can also be good against early pack rats.
1 of Magma jet smooths your draws.
Generally, as I said I have been winning with this deck. All of my aggro match ups are really good. Some times rakdos haste poses some issues but the deck is not really popular. Esper control and azorius control are also decent matchups if you manage to resolve rakdos's return and a couple of thoughtseizes. The biggest issue and where I badly need suggestions is monoblack devotion. I have only won once against it. It always has enough removals for my threats and he manages to play more threats than me. I can't find proper SB cards for it. So please, if you could discuss some solutions it would be very helpful.
I imagine it is the Pack Rats, as they can get out of hand. I have 3 Ratchet Bombs in my side board specifically for the rats (set to two, remember they are copies, not tokens), Elspeth, MoW, etc.
If it is Gray Merchant, well if you don't nab him early with a thoughtseize then you will just need to keep their devotion down. To do this, I would recommend dropping Devour Flesh for Lightning Strikes. In fact I would SB Devour Flesh permanently to bring in depending on the situation.
If it is the Demon giving you trouble, take out your Devour Flesh and Doom Blades for Dark Betrayals or Ultimate Price.
Overall, I would SB the Whip and Devour Flesh and bring in 3 Ultimate Prices and another Magma Jet. The biggest reason to bring Red into Black control is, in my opinion, access to more great removal spells. Lightning Strike and Mizzium Mortars should be in this list I think.
The biggest problem is that I have a hard time actually killing them. Most of my losses from MBD come from either a late mutavault when I am out of instantspeed removals or from a double Underworld Connections + Erebos, God of the Dead. The only solutions to erebos is devour flesh but if they have a mutavault on the board then I am pretty much screwed.
Pack rats is not a problem and most MBD board it out against me.
I can't see how Lightning Strike could be helpful in the situation, since it only kills Nightveil Specter. The only other reason I would use it is some reach but still, I think it is too hard to fit it in the SB.
How the MU usually goes is: both slam threats, take some hits, remove said threats, then gray merchant for him to stabilize, remove gary, he slams a couple of underworld connections, wins with card advantage, erebos, mutavaults.
Ok so it sounds like Erebos is the main problem, and Mutavault.
You are going to have to play around Erebos, as you have obviously seen. I don't know of any destroy/exile enchantments in our colors. I would still SB out Devour Flesh unless I was playing MBD. Try to kill their Mutavaults as they get activated, and Devour Flesh when Erebos is the only thing on the board. Not much else we can do about it I don't think.
Lightning Strike not only kills Nightveil Specter, but it also kills mutavault and gives you reach. If they activate Mutavault, make them pay for it.
It is obviously personal preference, but I love Lightning Strike and Magma Jets in that they give me options. I can go for fast burn, I can hold onto them and use them as pro-black removal (to keep devotion low), or if my opponent is in the red zone they can go to his face late game.
Also, I would bring in more Slaughter Games. I run 3 SB, and would bring them in against Esper and MBD. Against Esper you name Rev or Elspeth (or whatever), against MBD name whatever gives you the hardest time (Erebos, Underworld Connections)
Have people tested Sire of Insanity? I'm trying a pair in the side to bring in against the grindier/control matchups. I feel that with Connections, the deck should be able to outgrind anything.
The biggest issue and where I badly need suggestions is monoblack devotion. I have only won once against it. It always has enough removals for my threats and he manages to play more threats than me. I can't find proper SB cards for it. So please, if you could discuss some solutions it would be very helpful.
Pithing Needle is very strong against MBD naming packrat or the land underworld connections is on.
This deck is missing something.
I don't know what. I feel like it needs a good B/R disruption creature.
Don't know.
I feel like its evolved and every angle of its been looked at in this card pool, so no we kind of circle around it trying to get it to perform better. I can only surmise that the people winning with this must be amazing pilots, but yea, its missing something to be great. Maybe its just not found yet.
As you can see I'm trying to hedge more against black and control variants since they are doing so well and then boarding into more mass removal and one-for-ones against aggro. This has been doing fairly well and I really like pack rat and mutavault because they give the deck a whole agressive angle of attack and can end a game quick with a dragon. Overall the deck is pretty straightforward and should get better one we get our scryland and maybe a good god.
As you can see I'm trying to hedge more against black and control variants since they are doing so well and then boarding into more mass removal and one-for-ones against aggro. This has been doing fairly well and I really like pack rat and mutavault because they give the deck a whole agressive angle of attack and can end a game quick with a dragon. Overall the deck is pretty straightforward and should get better one we get our scryland and maybe a good god.
Why Wear // Tear ?? What artifacts u r afraid of?? I think the relevant part is Tear and is uncasteable for B/R decks.
in his version there is only 2 scryland but temple of silence and triumph produce W. which is not enough to cast Wear. IMO vs DSphere and Assemble the Legion Wear/Tear is a reasonnable spell for BRcontrol but with a bit more W sources (at least 4-6)
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
in his version there is only 2 scryland but temple of silence and triumph produce W. which is not enough to cast Wear. IMO vs DSphere and Assemble the Legion Wear/Tear is a reasonnable spell for BRcontrol but with a bit more W sources (at least 4-6)
I could add 2 temple of silence to help hit W more. I really wish we had a better answer for enchanments though.
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Solid list overall, pretty similar to mine
If you're playing without Keyrune, you may need either Magma Jet or a 3rd Read the Bones to make sure you can get to Desecration Demon mana on time.
3 Mainboard Doom Blades may also be excessive considering how much I am seeing Mono-Black Devotion. I would consider bringing either Ultimate Price or Devour Flesh into the main for some of those. Maybe something like 4 Dreadbore, 1 Doom Blade, 1 Ultimate Price, 1 Devour Flesh for 2CMC removal.
It's fine if you disagree about Stormbreath Dragon, but providing specific prevalent MUs where it is good (and Pack Rat or other MD cards are bad) would be more conducive towards discussion. My argument is not that it is a bad card; it is that the current meta, at least online and at most larger events, is one that hinders stormbreath, and greatly helps Pack Rat. I'm also not sure if 0 is the right number; 4 however, simply feels like too much against most devotion decks.
Of course, there are exceptions. Max Tietze just had a top 8 finish with his UW list. Yet, that seems to be the exception, not the rule.
thanks. i switched doom blade for devour flesh. feel it's a better card. i'll try and sneak a 3rd read the bones in there.
Before going into the weekend, I suggest you try 3 Dreadbore, 2 Magma Jet, 2 Devour. This is where I'm at currently with my list in 2CMC.
i've been using them to good effect in conjunction with magma jet and thoughtseize as a 1-2 combo sorta thing.
Sire and Rakdos Return roughly fill the same slot, but sire providing a fatty is sometimes just more important than keeping your own hand intact (I'm actually often near-hellbent anyway when I fire it off).
Master is too cute. It makes you want to play a bad card in your deck (magma jet), and actually *decreases* the amount of pressure you're putting on the opponent while actually committing something to the board. Mutavaults and Keyrunes already do that job excellently. Also, Master isn't resilient enough. The demon/dragon/keyrune trifecta pretty much forces decks to have an extremely diverse removal suite and to have the right removal at the right time. About the only card that kills everything is hero's downfall, but that's okay.
This is my current revision and I've only been losing due to pilot error.
4 Desecration Demon
4 Stormbreath Dragon
Artifacts
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Rakdos Keyrune
Sorceries
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Read the Bones
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Thoughtseize
4 Dreadbore
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Far//Away
2 Thoughtflare
Land
6 Mountain
4 Swamp
4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Mutavault
4 Slaughter Games
3 Lifebane Zombie
4 Pharika's Cure
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Thoughtseize
2 Underworld Connections
Of course, the removal package is extremely flexible and depends entirely on what you expect to see, but this is what's currently working decently in my meta. Also, yes, that's two Thoughtflare. They're awesome and even with only 4 U sources I consistently get the one U I need by the time I would actually want to cast the card. If you're scared of not getting blue, a couple more U sources should be just fine, and also power up the far//away more consistently too.
Twitch channel
I'm really surprised to see 0 keyrune in that last list.
All the good things about it s have likely already been stated but seems to be missing.
Ultimately, the only problem with this deck is that the wincons aren't invincible, and don't kill you outright.
also... thoughtflare... before I talk bad about it I'll test it. but... feel kinda doubtful.
Twitch channel
7x Swamp
7x Mountain
4x Mutavault
4x Rakdos Guildgate
4x Blood Crypt
Creatures (10)
4x Pack Rat
4x Desecration Demon
2x Master of Cruelties
Spells (24)
3x Thoughtseize
2x Shock
4x Dreadbore
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Devour Flesh
3x Anger of the Gods
3x Rakdos Keyrune
3x Read the Bones
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Hammer of Purphoros
2x Rakdos's Return
2x Shock
2x Duress
1x Underworld Connections
1x Thoughtseize
1x Slaughter Games
1x Rakdos's Return
1x Ultimate Price
1x Lifebane Zombie
1x Doom Blade
1x Devour Flesh
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Electrickery
~Pack rat is amazing.
I'm not sure why others aren't running it. Turn 1 thoughtseize + turn 2 pack rat on the play is extremely hard for U devotion or B devotion to beat. And that's half the meta. An early pack rat in general is very tough for U devotion to race - especially if you have an answer to Master of the Waves. Cyclonic Rift, Domestication and Rapid Hybridization are not run in large enough quantities to provide a reliable answer. Often, U devotion will be forced to play a turn 1/2 Rapid Hybridization on your rat. Even if they follow up with a Tidebinder Mage, you have generally have enough removal to get a 3/3 out of the deal. And as everyone knows from the dreaded mirror, pack rat is amazing against B devotion. It isn't great against esper, but it forces them to have an answer. Even two rats and a Mutavault swing for 8 a turn. Especially in game one, you can discard your dead cards and force them to use their verdicts and D spheres. And of course, you can always save removal to kill a rat in response to the D sphere. Don't get me wrong - I normally board down to 1-2 depending on the esper list. Still, they seem much better in practice than in theory.
~The removal for the deck is still a mess.
I've changed things around, and I've never been quite happy. The only thing I've concluded, is that if you don't play 2-3 drop creatures, and you don't play Sphinx's Revelation, 3 mana is a lot to pay for a removal spell. I'm down to one Hero's Downfall, and if Master of Waves wasn't a card, I'd cut them completely MD. Shocks aren't great, but they're good against U devotion (keyrune into shock / thoughtseize turn 3). They're also decent against B devotion in the Pack Rat races. I've cut them before, but my WW, R devotion, Rakdos Aggro and Boss Slight MUs all suffer quite a bit. Esper is the real MU that running shock hurts, although it does occasionally kill a Jace.
~I'd suggest there isn't a good 5-6 drop for the deck.
I've thoroughly tested Stormbreath Dragon, and I've not been impressed. It frankly doesn't do much against U devotion, although to be fair, Master of Cruelties and Desecration Demon are countered by Master of Waves. Yet, it's a bit of a moot point - Stormbreath isn't going to race a sizable amount of tokens either. Stormbreath also has poor protection against B devotion. All of the MB removal in the deck hits it. Right now, a black multicolored creature is a good place to be against the deck. Post-board, Dark Betrayal blanks on Stormbreath, but the card typically has enough targets between demon and rats. Stormbreath has a notable advantage (and is quite a good card) against esper/UW/American control; generally I'd agree that d sphere and charm protection outweighs doom blade and ultimate price protection. Still, the numbers esper is posting online is much lower than B and U devotion.
Chandra has been fine, but not great. She's great against most of the aggro decks of the format, and is "okay" against control, but she's usually not where you want to be against devotion decks. U can race (and has poor answers to things like demon anyways) and B can downfall her after you're forced to +1 her the first turn.
This is purely a meta-call against devotion - I run Stormbreath Dragons and Chandras in my paper list, since the meta game has less U and B devotion.
I'm not a big fan of Master of Cruelties, despite it's capability to steal wins in games you're behind in. Still, it's a "must-block" for the devotion decks, and keeps their board-presence low as a result. As such, I prefer it over Stormbreath Dragon or Chandra online. Yes, Stormbreath Dragon is a much better card than Master of Cruelties, but it doesn't mesh well with the deck or the current meta. I'm really hoping we get a solid 5-6 drop out of the next set. Outside Rakdos's Return, it's certainly a weak spot of the deck. Along with tinkering with the removal, I'd love to replace the two Master of Cruelties I'm currently running. The problem is finding an effective 5/6 drop in RB that fits the deck.
~ Keyrunes are good.
It took cutting them to realize just how good ramping into a Rakdos Return and then playing offense/defense with a difficult to removal 3/1 first strike is.
~ The deck is good.
I've been playing both 8 and 2 man queues for the last month or so. It's been almost 200 games, and I've been bouncing just below 1800 rating online; roughly a 75% win ratio (against 1600 avg). The last time I hit 1800 in standard was with caw-blade; I normally am around 1700 (~%64) in constructed.
Assemble the Legion (or a number of cards or decks) could surge and drastically alter things. But the for moment, BR midrange seems well placed in the meta.
The downsides of Pack Rat are extremely hard to swallow. It's an inherently all-in snowball card, so against devotion that has a hard time stopping the snowball it's great, but it's pretty bad against anything else. Without underworld connections, it heavily stifles your game development. A pretty decent analogue from days past would be Masticore, which similarly constricts your resources, but generally still worth playing. The option to throw otherwise dead cards to the rat is nice though, but I'd generally think it's a mistake to throw useful cards to it (unless of course, it's against devotion and they're going to Just Die). Another card in standard that has to be played pretty carefully in a similar way is Lotleth Troll. I've played against GB and the better players definitely know to hold off on it because discarding a card is one of the most costly things you can do in magic.
Right now I like:
3x anger
3x dreadbore
3x downfall
2-3 away or devours (I like away since I have U temples)
2x mortars
with the 4th anger and 4 Pharika's Cure in the side. Cure is much much better than shock, since most shock targets about 2 power anyway, so even if you have to take a hit it comes out even and later when you're just sitting on mana and you don't need to take a hit, the two life is very nice. It's also the cleanest solution around for Master.
That's an extreme meta-call for online, and almost certainly a mistake in paper. This deck is capable of crushing anything if it's built to do so, the real trick is to not totally crush any one matchup at the cost of almost anything else but be favored against "everything". This configuration looks like it's built to crush aggro and devotion, but hugely sacrifices the UWx matchup. My current build crushes aggro and UWx, but is rather soft to devotion, so I could use some Rats in there.
One of the biggest advantages that esper has is that all their removal can more-or-less deal with anything. Dragon plays an extremely important role in forcing specific premium answers (downfall, particularly). They only run 4 downfalls at most, but with mutavault and dragon, you have 8 must-kill threats for those downfalls. I've actually felt that Demon is the most underwhelming threat, and if anything you should put the dragons back in and cut the Demons. Both rat and demon are vulnerable along the same angle, and often serve a similar role of just being a lightning rod for removal.
Around here white weenie boros is pretty popular, and dragon just completely invalidates their entire deck singlehandedly. I ran without dragon before I acquired them, and consistently Just Lost to a resolved Elspeth.
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I'm curious how something like this would work (I hate DD and just traded my playset)
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Lifebane Zombie
4 Pack Rat
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Sorcery (11)
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Thoughtseize
2 Dreadbore
Instant (4)
4 Hero's Downfall
Artifact (4)
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Rakdos Keyrune
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Underworld Connections
2 Chained to the Rocks
Land (24)
4 Blood Crypt
2 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Temple of Triumph
3 Temple of Silence
2 Mutavault
3 Swamp
3 Mountain
2 Sin Collector
3 Rakdos's Return
2 Slaughter Games
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Wear // Tear
4 Pharika's Cure
1 Pithing Needle
Now the reasoning I have for the white splash is that cards like Blood Baron/Sin Collector/Tear and even Chained are so strong that they deserve to be looked at, I like it better than the blue splash I see being tossed around on here. My list looks a little different than most here.
Hammer is pretty hilarious with Pack Rat, and the ability to whip back pack rat if they somehow kill it is pretty amazing too.
Chained is pretty good unconditional removal to kill anything besides an opposing Stormbreath.
Sin Collector is pretty self explanatory in the Esper matchup, and can be whipped back.
I'm not sold on the land count/way it's set up. It does get us some much needed scrying, though.
Underworld connections is just a better card with Pack Rat than Read the Bones.
4x Desecration Demon
3x Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswaklers (1)
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
Artifacts (4)
3x Rakdos Keyrune
1x Whip of Erebos
Sorceries (15)
4x Anger of the Gods
2x Dreadbore
2x Rakdos's Return
3x Read the Bones
3x Thoughtseize
3x Devour Flesh
1x Doom Blade
3x Hero's Downfall
1x Magma Jet
Lands (25)
4x Blood Crypt
7x Mountain
1x Mutavault
4x Rakdos Guildgate
7x Swamp
2x Temple of Triumph
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Lifebane Zombie
1x Rakdos's Return
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Shock
1x Slaughter Games
1x Thoughtseize
2x Underworld Connections
2x Wear//Tear
First of all I think this is one of the most powerful and underrated deck in the format. I would like to discuss some of my choices and I hope for some constructive criticism.
Stormbreath dragon and Sire of Insanity. The thing is, you can't run both of em. I kept playing Sire for a couple of weeks and it just ended up in a tense topdeck race. I was mostly winning but it was pretty rough and so draw depended that I wouldn't want to coin toss my important games. Stormbreath dragons on the other hand are more stable in that regard, less mana intensive and almost always guaranteed damage. The pro white also makes them good againt azorius control or esper control.
Rakdos keyrune is simply amazing. The deck is generally mana hungry and it will help you ramp as well as be a constant beater in the end.
Whip is up for discussion. As an one of it can be great for finisher and stabilizing. Not having the ability to run any other life gain is really bad for a control deck and whip allows for at least some life gain.
Running 4 Anger of the gods in a format with so many aggro decks is absolutely valid. Can also be good against early pack rats.
1 of Magma jet smooths your draws.
Generally, as I said I have been winning with this deck. All of my aggro match ups are really good. Some times rakdos haste poses some issues but the deck is not really popular. Esper control and azorius control are also decent matchups if you manage to resolve rakdos's return and a couple of thoughtseizes. The biggest issue and where I badly need suggestions is monoblack devotion. I have only won once against it. It always has enough removals for my threats and he manages to play more threats than me. I can't find proper SB cards for it. So please, if you could discuss some solutions it would be very helpful.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Pack Rats? Gary? D.Demon?
I imagine it is the Pack Rats, as they can get out of hand. I have 3 Ratchet Bombs in my side board specifically for the rats (set to two, remember they are copies, not tokens), Elspeth, MoW, etc.
If it is Gray Merchant, well if you don't nab him early with a thoughtseize then you will just need to keep their devotion down. To do this, I would recommend dropping Devour Flesh for Lightning Strikes. In fact I would SB Devour Flesh permanently to bring in depending on the situation.
If it is the Demon giving you trouble, take out your Devour Flesh and Doom Blades for Dark Betrayals or Ultimate Price.
Overall, I would SB the Whip and Devour Flesh and bring in 3 Ultimate Prices and another Magma Jet. The biggest reason to bring Red into Black control is, in my opinion, access to more great removal spells. Lightning Strike and Mizzium Mortars should be in this list I think.
Pack rats is not a problem and most MBD board it out against me.
I can't see how Lightning Strike could be helpful in the situation, since it only kills Nightveil Specter. The only other reason I would use it is some reach but still, I think it is too hard to fit it in the SB.
How the MU usually goes is: both slam threats, take some hits, remove said threats, then gray merchant for him to stabilize, remove gary, he slams a couple of underworld connections, wins with card advantage, erebos, mutavaults.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
You are going to have to play around Erebos, as you have obviously seen. I don't know of any destroy/exile enchantments in our colors. I would still SB out Devour Flesh unless I was playing MBD. Try to kill their Mutavaults as they get activated, and Devour Flesh when Erebos is the only thing on the board. Not much else we can do about it I don't think.
Lightning Strike not only kills Nightveil Specter, but it also kills mutavault and gives you reach. If they activate Mutavault, make them pay for it.
It is obviously personal preference, but I love Lightning Strike and Magma Jets in that they give me options. I can go for fast burn, I can hold onto them and use them as pro-black removal (to keep devotion low), or if my opponent is in the red zone they can go to his face late game.
Also, I would bring in more Slaughter Games. I run 3 SB, and would bring them in against Esper and MBD. Against Esper you name Rev or Elspeth (or whatever), against MBD name whatever gives you the hardest time (Erebos, Underworld Connections)
Pithing Needle is very strong against MBD naming packrat or the land underworld connections is on.
This deck could be nuts with the r/b scry coming.
I don't know what. I feel like it needs a good B/R disruption creature.
Don't know.
I feel like its evolved and every angle of its been looked at in this card pool, so no we kind of circle around it trying to get it to perform better. I can only surmise that the people winning with this must be amazing pilots, but yea, its missing something to be great. Maybe its just not found yet.
4x Pack Rat
4x Desecration Demon
4x Stormbreath Dragon
Artifacts/enchantments
3x Rakdos Keyrune
2x Underworld Connections
Spells:
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Thoughtseize
3x Read the Bones
2x Pharika's Cure
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Rakdos's Return
4x Blood Crypt
4x Rakdos Guildgate
4x Mutavault
8x Swamp
4x Mountain
2x Temple of Triumph
3x Duress
2x Lifebane Zombie
2x Doom Blade
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Wear/Tear
2x Shrivel
1x Rakdos's Return
As you can see I'm trying to hedge more against black and control variants since they are doing so well and then boarding into more mass removal and one-for-ones against aggro. This has been doing fairly well and I really like pack rat and mutavault because they give the deck a whole agressive angle of attack and can end a game quick with a dragon. Overall the deck is pretty straightforward and should get better one we get our scryland and maybe a good god.
Isn't Lifebane Zombie a solid disruption creature? I've been running him mainboard with good results.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Why Wear // Tear ?? What artifacts u r afraid of?? I think the relevant part is Tear and is uncasteable for B/R decks.
Weapons are pretty good against this deck. That's basically all it's there for.
edit: Vandalblast" target="blank">Vandalblast and Rakdos Charm are also reasonnable alternative if you only use the R part of Wear // Tear
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
I could add 2 temple of silence to help hit W more. I really wish we had a better answer for enchanments though.