Having all cards spoiled and (more important) have played them already, I can tell that Heroic is a pretty awesome ability, which aggro decks will really love. We all know is not a matter of your cards to survive, but that they can inflict tons of damage as quick as possible.
Heroics usually put +1/+1 counters on your creature, thus, they have more resistance against heavier creatures and red removal. While bant/WGB Auras intend your creature to survive a lot, I consider heroic decks to try and make their creatures as heavy as possible in no time. You don't really matter if they die, but if they inflict the damage expected. This is an example:
Watching the creatures alone, it is like an aggro deck, but with less creatures than usual (not so few either). 12 one-drops, followed by 8 2-drops and 6 potentially 3-drop killers, the mana curve goes well for our creatures.
We can see 16 heroic enablers here, which also comes in 1 mana, 2 mana and three mana. We are trying to make our single or two creatures to deal pretty heavy damage, while they keep growing in size.
Martial Glory could be seen as a terrible Giant Growth, but the truth is, it is an awesome heroic enabler, making two creature to pump, which also can make them evade some cards like Lightning Strike, Shock, Magma Jet, Anger of the Gods). So well, I don't see the famous Anger of the Gods as a real menace here, since our creatures could survive with their +1/+1 counters and protections.
Also, Fires of the Firebrand is an incredible heroic enabler, it can pump up to three creatures, which I may say is awesome for three mana, there is no best heroic enabler out there, having the flexibility to throw the uneeded damage to the opponent or his/her creatures. It is a toolkit which kills blockers, activates heroic, or finishes off the opponent's last renmants of life.
Red and white are the best combination for heroics, since it has the cheapest heroic creatures out there. I'm pretty sure this kind of deck will be hard-to-deal against, I have made some testings and it runs pretty sweet and consistent, but next week I will prove it for real in tournament, so I could make a primer or something later if everything goes well.
Why Favored Hoplite over Akroan Crusader? The hasty guys are better than the damage prevention trick and a counter IMO. The hasty guys also help battalion.
Yep, auras also fit well in these strategies, the only bad issue is that only Favored Hoplite gets some kind of protection if it is about red removal. A hexproofed heroic creature would be nuts if they decide to release one for "Born of the Gods" or "Journey into Nyx".
Enchantment creatures get along well in not-so-fast heroic strategies, because they become a creature if you kill the enchanted one, preventing you to lose field presence so easily. Boon Satyr and Feral Invocation are nice because flash, allowing for some combat tricks and value. Too bad green heroic creatures are so expensive and have no protection by themselves, unless you use something like Alpha Authority first, an enchantment that does nothing besides of hexproof and another ability you barely need.
I've been messing with this deck and it's very similar to Hexproof Auras but with some tempo elements.
Personally, i think Gods Willing is pretty, pretty good. At very early this deck put' a massive amount of threat and a single answer-to-answer play will win many games. Time Walking with 4~5 power on the field turn 3 is just very cruel.
The main weakness is consistency. If you don't play first a control player can too easilly get hold of the situation. A turn 2 syncopate for example is killer. The reason why this deck is weaker for that sort of thing then other aggro variants is because you sacrifice reach and threat density for synergy and if the opponent can cut part of your synergy you're left with a much weaker version of aggro deck in hands. Answering a single card in the right time will have a enormous net effetc in terms of damage prevented.
Not saying this have a bad match up vs. control (i've tested enough for that), just saying there are cases almost impossible to win and those cases are not super rare (like t2 syncopates / a.charm).
Anyway, it's certainly a great deck and it's pretty fun to pilot. I surely bet this have a tier 2 status imo I can see this getting in better tiers.
seems like a pretty risky strategy, removal's very decent now and BTE is going to make sure people are prepared for aggro, you just open yourself up to too many 2/1.5 for ones.
You're also seriously dependent on synergy so as said earlier, you won't have the critical mass necessary to make it worth using relatively sub-par cards or you won't have enough threat density for a proper aggro deck
I've been messing with this deck and it's very similar to Hexproof Auras but with some tempo elements.
Personally, i think Gods Willing is pretty, pretty good. At very early this deck put' a massive amount of threat and a single answer-to-answer play will win many games. Time Walking with 4~5 power on the field turn 3 is just very cruel.
The main weakness is consistency. If you don't play first a control player can too easilly get hold of the situation. A turn 2 syncopate for example is killer. The reason why this deck is weaker for that sort of thing then other aggro variants is because you sacrifice reach and threat density for synergy and if the opponent can cut part of your synergy you're left with a much weaker version of aggro deck in hands. Answering a single card in the right time will have a enormous net effetc in terms of damage prevented.
Not saying this have a bad match up vs. control (i've tested enough for that), just saying there are cases almost impossible to win and those cases are not super rare (like t2 syncopates / a.charm).
Anyway, it's certainly a great deck and it's pretty fun to pilot. I surely bet this have a tier 2 status imo I can see this getting in better tiers.
I'm pretty sure it can go well in the ranks, but it is a pretty explosive deck, so it needs to perform well in the first 3 turns in order to be effective. Of course, counters will be a great problem, now that they regained their former glory after Cavern of Souls rotation. A green version has access to Ranger's Guile too, increasing your chances to win against control decks, so I think a naya heroic is possible, but with more mana issues. You're right about God's Willing, more with all removal it exists right now, or just to deliver an unblockable finishing strike.
seems like a pretty risky strategy, removal's very decent now and BTE is going to make sure people are prepared for aggro, you just open yourself up to too many 2/1.5 for ones.
You're also seriously dependent on synergy so as said earlier, you won't have the critical mass necessary to make it worth using relatively sub-par cards or you won't have enough threat density for a proper aggro deck
That is totally true, it is needed to have certain rythm in order to this kind of deck to work. Is not just aggro or tempo, is an aggro-tempo actually, sometimes being more aggro and sometimes more tempo. Sometimes you find yourself with many creatures which are being pumped up, and sometimes you have only one or two, with tricky powerful hits. In any case, is an explosive deck, fragile indeed, but fast overtures can take on control and mid-games before they can place something, and against aggro it can finish up with bigger creatures, being able to both attack and defend aggressively. Against counters, having a creature on field and instants to protect it can frustrate your opponent, making your aggressors just bigger, and sometimes you can get frustrated by watching all your creatures to die.
[B][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Green"]Having all cards spoiled and (more important) have played them already, I can tell that Heroic is a pretty awesome ability, which aggro decks will really love. We all know is not a matter of your cards to survive, but that they can inflict tons of damage as quick as possible.
I really dislike your mana. 14 white sources when trying to cast Phalanx Leader on turn two... even 14 white for Fabled Hero is really pushing things, only 10 sources to cast Akroan Crusader on turn one. Only 20 lands while having 4 drops (Eidolon bestow).
Then there's the card choices. Cavalry Pegasus is amazing, Anax and Cymede is the best hero in the deck... why only two?, no Coordinated Assault, and God's Willing over Brave the Elements. Your protection isn't that good and the evasion is poor. That's not where you want to be in a deck that has to use it's spell slots on cards other than removal.
I think I'm stretching a little too much with the Mutavaults, they may not be worth the 5th tap land.
Your deck seems pretty aggro enough to not use taplands, problem is that you don't want to waste a turn scrying or fixing mana. Mutavaults, in other hand, are pretty good with Phalanx Leader, since they can receive the counters too so, even if you get wiped, you still have a 2/2 land with some +1/+1 counters on it, it can finish up the job by itself.
I really dislike your mana. 14 white sources when trying to cast Phalanx Leader on turn two... even 14 white for Fabled Hero is really pushing things, only 10 sources to cast Akroan Crusader on turn one. Only 20 lands while having 4 drops (Eidolon bestow).
Then there's the card choices. Cavalry Pegasus is amazing, Anax and Cymede is the best hero in the deck... why only two?, no Coordinated Assault, and God's Willing over Brave the Elements. Your protection isn't that good and the evasion is poor. That's not where you want to be in a deck that has to use it's spell slots on cards other than removal.
I was thinking about that turn 1, and I guess it would be better to remove 2 Akroan Crusader for 2 Mutavault.
Definitely, I don't want more than six three-mana-drops on the deck, third turn is more likely to be used to enable heroics and swing massive damage, because turn 4 is where creatures will start up to die easier.
I chosed Gods Willing over Brave the Elements because it enables heroics and scries at the same time. Scry is always good, you just can get rid of that unnecessary land or filter a creature when you may prefer an enabler, anyway, both options are equally good, with their respective differences. Your ideas aren't bad either, the pegasus seems fragile but powerful with a good board presence. If it weren't by the fact I decided to make it Black/White now instead, I would keep fixing this, lol. At least it works as a guide
Coordinated assault and gods willing are to good to cut. maybe side out gods willing vs the very rare deck that wont interact with you
I am considering legion loyalist and boros elite as one drops, I think elite will work better than our other one drop heroic options. 3/3 is more value than hoplite or crusader will likely get for us with heroic, and our deck shouldn't have an issue with battalion. and it leaves our spells to target our more valuable heroic triggers, and even boosting elite with no trigger isn't terrible
i'm also considering dauntless onslaught over flames of the firebrand, having the option to 3 dam your opp or a creature is nice, but not as a sorcery. adding 4+ damage to an attack and triggering heroic twice is great at instant speed
I like fabled hero, but boros reckoner is really great, and hard to cut. just because we use heroic doesn't mean everything has to be heroic.
also I think Dragon mantle deserves consideration, trigger heroic, firebreathing, and replaces itself is very nice. I almost want to lean on enchantments now because ethereal armor synergy with it and chained to the rocks is powerful. but its hard to move away from instant speed tricks.
I've revised this slightly. I'm still not sold on manavault, because with so many one-drops, we can't afford the colorless mana source, I don't think. I keep as many one-drops as possible to keep the tempo, and Chained is great for this.
I am considering legion loyalist and boros elite as one drops, I think elite will work better than our other one drop heroic options. 3/3 is more value than hoplite or crusader will likely get for us with heroic, and our deck shouldn't have an issue with battalion. and it leaves our spells to target our more valuable heroic triggers, and even boosting elite with no trigger isn't terrible
Legion Loyalist is always a good one, more on this kind of deck, creatures tend to be 3+ power, and having first strike and trample matters on that situations. Boros Elite seems good even as a T2 drop, but maybe I would go for a consistent 2 hit with Firedrinker Satyr or Soldier of the Pantheon. They are just still better.
i'm also considering dauntless onslaught over flames of the firebrand, having the option to 3 dam your opp or a creature is nice, but not as a sorcery. adding 4+ damage to an attack and triggering heroic twice is great at instant speed
Both are great on their own ways, depending the match, one can be better than the other.
I like fabled hero, but boros reckoner is really great, and hard to cut. just because we use heroic doesn't mean everything has to be heroic.
That's right, not everything must be heroics, but benefit from combat tricks I may say that both creatures have different roles. Boros Reckoner is better as a defense or to ensure that the last 3 damage connect, while Fabled Hero can instantly deplete all our opponent's life. Of course Reckoner is better against burn or aggro decks, it all depends of what you expect for your 3-drop creature.
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also I think Dragon mantle deserves consideration, trigger heroic, firebreathing, and replaces itself is very nice. I almost want to lean on enchantments now because ethereal armor synergy with it and chained to the rocks is powerful. but its hard to move away from instant speed tricks.
I remember when Stonewright was played a lot in monored aggro, it was awesome because all your manabase is red, so you never leave leftovers unused. Dragon Mantle's best ability is to replace itself to draw another card, maybe another heroic enabler or a land we are missing, although the firebreathing is not that awesome in dual-colored decks. But as yo usay, it still deserves consideration, is very useful. Also, moving to aura is not a bad deal, actually is a pretty good alternative, you have some protection with Gods Willing and Brave the Elements after all, so is not that easy to kill your voltron creature either.
I just got an idea of a Turn 3 killing deck, seems to be kind of consistent on that job, but is still missing a decent sideboard option, hahah.
It works pretty simple, there are many ways to achieve this:
T1: Plains + Favored Hoplite
T2: Mountain + Madcap Skills, swing for 5
T3: Plains + Ethereal Armor, + Boros Charm, swing for 18 (or if he/she landburnt himself/herself, you can just make Boros Charm and Gods Willing and swing for 14 (thats 19 overall, if he burnt himself/herself with shockland, is gg)
I've revised this slightly. I'm still not sold on manavault, because with so many one-drops, we can't afford the colorless mana source, I don't think. I keep as many one-drops as possible to keep the tempo, and Chained is great for this.
Seems quick enough to win in 4 or 5 turns I really like it. Mutavault wasn't better here anyway because of Boros Reckoner and the one mana drops as you mentioned..
Possibly so, but the reliance on enchantments is iffy. Also, there's no heroic synergy, so I don't really know if it could be called "heroic". Your only heroic creature is Favored Hoplite, and even that doesn't give global benefits based on heroic. The problem with it is that its benefit is limited to itself. Also, Dryad Militant seems like a really niche card.
Seems quick enough to win in 4 or 5 turns I really like it. Mutavault wasn't better here anyway because of Boros Reckoner and the one mana drops as you mentioned..
Thank you! In this meta, you have to have pretty good justification for not using mutavault.
Your deck seems pretty aggro enough to not use taplands, problem is that you don't want to waste a turn scrying or fixing mana. Mutavaults, in other hand, are pretty good with Phalanx Leader, since they can receive the counters too so, even if you get wiped, you still have a 2/2 land with some +1/+1 counters on it, it can finish up the job by itself.
With only 4 one drops having a tap land come down on turn 1 isn't the worst thing in the world. After thinking about it for a bit though I do feel the Mutavaults are worth the price. They'll screw you in about 3% of games and the tap lands will screw you in another 2% of games. If the color screw causes a game to go from 50/50 to 35/65 it means you lose an additional 1.2 out of 100 games but the power of Mutavault is such that it's likely winning you more than 1.2 out of 100 games.
Definitely, I don't want more than six three-mana-drops on the deck, third turn is more likely to be used to enable heroics and swing massive damage, because turn 4 is where creatures will start up to die easier.
I agree about the number of three drops in theory, but in practice the deck seems to want a lot of them. The big three drop in this deck is Flames of the Firebrand. It's removal and heroic pump. So I'm a little higher on three drops. If I had to cut it to just six though, I think 3 Anax and 3 Flames would be the call, cutting the spear and paladin. In my opinion though it's fine to be higher on 3 drops. The power level of the past couple sets has been such that 3 drops are the new 4 drop. So having a number of three drops equal to previous decks 3+4's is fine.
Thought's thus far are this:
[CARD]
Akroan Crusader[/CARD] is a 4x just because if you turn two Mantle/Armor, it's 5 to the face with 3 bodies on the board, and you can easily knock most decks down to 10 with that alone. Other than that, he is just great for creating board presence and allowing you to hold back in case of sweeps.
Spear of Heliod is an auto-include, and allows for you to hit heroics with Flames of the Firebrand.
[CARD]
Dragon's mantle[/CARD] has to be 4x just for the cantrip ability, activating heroic cheaply and also pumping Ethereal Armor. The firebreath also comes in handy but is overall just gravy.
Someone else should try out the list and tell me what they think.
So, I'm playing against more serious decks online, and I'm noticing that many heroic cards don't link that well together. Akroan Crusader rarely goes off, and when he does, his tokens often just stay as pathetic 1/1s, because you rely on having Phalanx Leader on the board, even though Leader is a WW and Crusader is a R, so unless you've pulled a dual land, which you very well may have, but which you shouldn't count on, the 1/1's really don't do much but chump block mid-range. Here's what I'm running, with a little revision. It fares better.
Anax and Cymede is simply too slow. You play it and it doesn't do anything until the next turn. Additionally, its ability is not static. It lasts one turn. The enchantment factor of Hopeful Eidolon is nice, but it's too slow for its enchantment bonus and it's a turn one 1/1 lifelinker. I've had issues with Chained being bumped back to my hand, so I don't main deck it against much. I tried planeswalkers, but this build sort of fights their addition with what it's trying to accomplish, which is a quick win against mid-range and everything else.
So, I'm playing against more serious decks online, and I'm noticing that many heroic cards don't link that well together. Akroan Crusader rarely goes off, and when he does, his tokens often just stay as pathetic 1/1s, because you rely on having Phalanx Leader on the board, even though Leader is a WW and Crusader is a R, so unless you've pulled a dual land, which you very well may have, but which you shouldn't count on, the 1/1's really don't do much but chump block mid-range. Here's what I'm running, with a little revision. It fares better.
Anax and Cymede is simply too slow. You play it and it doesn't do anything until the next turn. Additionally, its ability is not static. It lasts one turn. The enchantment factor of Hopeful Eidolon is nice, but it's too slow for its enchantment bonus and it's a turn one 1/1 lifelinker. I've had issues with Chained being bumped back to my hand, so I don't main deck it against much. I tried planeswalkers, but this build sort of fights their addition with what it's trying to accomplish, which is a quick win against mid-range and everything else.
I'm interested in know why you choosed Soldier of the Pantheon over Favored Hoplite. for reckoners and bte? I'm not saying is a bad move, just actually I don't know what was the reason and I'm curious
The sideboard was crap. I only went 1-3, but it was a great learning experience. Coordinated Assault and Swift Justice are both great in this kind of deck. Especially Coordinated Assault. I want more Titan's Strength. The scry is very relevant. I'm going to cut the 4-drops. They were only in there because I really wanted to make them work.
I'd rather run Legion's Initiative over the Spear. It helps evade wraths. But in a deck relying on Instants to trigger Heroic, I might take out the enchantments all together. I do have an enchantment version I'm tinkering with. Phalanx Leader, in my friend's words, is a trap. I found myself not wanting him late game. I'm looking at Firefist Striker in his place. A set of Boros Charms is also too much. Gonna cut that down to two. I'm having a hard time deciding between Gods Willing and Brave the Elements. Gods Willing triggers Heroic, but Brave helps you get in there for a final swing. I also like the scry on Gods Willing.
I like Anax and Cymede. It is a little slow, but if you can untap with it, it's pretty good. I don't wanna run four, though. Three feels like a good number. I'm definitely going to come down on the lands since I'm not running Mutavault. Twenty-three was too many. Twenty or twenty-one seem better.
I build a more Red focused version. So far I have 3-1 and 1-2 the two dailies i have tried.
The 1-2 i lost two close games with no SB. One of them to GW tokes where i forgot the Legion Loyalist's token can't block ability, so I didn't attack in to a couple of worm tokens. The 3-1 Daily (Dugregej) went well, only losing to GW (MTGOstark, also 3-1) and manascrew.
As you can see this is only focused on instants and sorceries.
The only creature I'm not sure about, is the Ogre Battledriver. Most of the times when it comes out, it feels like I should have won by then. I am considering going with the Red god instead. 2 dmg to the face or +2 and haste are about even and the pump is nice for flood games, or games where he comes down after tokens have been generated from Young Pyromancer and Akron Crusader. The problem is that this deck rarely has the red devotion to turn him on.
On the other hand, Legion Loyalist is an all-star. As long as I can attack with 3 creatures it gets almost impossible to block. First strike and a wealth of combat tricks insures that almost whatever the block with will die and my guys survive, and the trample ensures that all power that have been pumped into block creatures still goes to the face
I'm interested in know why you choosed Soldier of the Pantheon over Favored Hoplite. for reckoners and bte? I'm not saying is a bad move, just actually I don't know what was the reason and I'm curious
Multicolored cards eat up the metagame in many circumstances, and this deck's biggest weakness is mid-range. Also, I just don't see the appeal of the hoplite. He seems really slow and isolated. If I'm going to add in a heroic spell, I want something that isn't going to just pump itself and something that has a permanent effect. Fabled is an exception to this rule because he's not at all slow for a turn three.
Basically, the reason is efficiency. If I'm going to have even a minute chance of standing up to some of the scarier decks, I want the deck to do what it can as quickly as possible, and I don't want to sink the spells on a heroic that only targets itself and only becomes a 2 power when it's targeted once. The life gain from it has been good, but mostly the ability to not be blocked by multicolored is a huge help.
I can see that the idea has cooled off but i have been exploring this a lot and i think i can make a few valuable suggestions.
First - i think that these lists are being a little too cute with heroic and heroic triggers. I'm using both but in very limited numbers. Heroic can be a good ability but you need to be more creative about how you trigger it. Just casting god's willing or some kind of a combat trick isn't good enough. Pit fight is a target card that also does something very permanent to your opponent's board, and dragon mantle is one of the better auras available in standard right now.
My way of thinking is that you need to build around the best cards - and that would be boros reckoner and anax and cymede - but you can supplement the gameplan with heroic cards and triggers here and there. I also recommend using legion's initiative on turn 2.
So my most interesting suggestion is pit fight. That targets your creature, triggering a counter and you usually get to kill one of your opponents creatures as well if you're playing on tempo. I've been using 2 or 3 pit fights and casting them on either favored hoplite or boros reckoner. There is essentially no creature that boros reckoner can't kill when you cast pit fight on him. Pit fight isn't there solely for combat tricks either. It allows you a chance to kill almost any problem creature. If you're hoping to keep your own creature alive then it helps a lot if the creature you're using for the fight is able to prevent or return all damage done to it.
T1: him - cackler, you - hoplite
T2: him ash zealot, you - pit fight.
You get to pump your hoplite, remove his ash zealot and you still have a creature big enough to block the rakdos cackler.
Then since i'm using legion's initiative i have also gotten good use out of spark trooper.
Legion loyalist, anax and cymede and possibly aurelia's fury can all allow you to have a big turn of damage. The important thing to keep in mind is that you need to have creatures that are good even when you don't have a way to trigger heroic. Legion's initiative makes the boros 3-drops very efficient.
I don't have the list on me but i can write something up later.
Heroics usually put +1/+1 counters on your creature, thus, they have more resistance against heavier creatures and red removal. While bant/WGB Auras intend your creature to survive a lot, I consider heroic decks to try and make their creatures as heavy as possible in no time. You don't really matter if they die, but if they inflict the damage expected. This is an example:
4 Sacred Foundry
10 Plains
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
Creatures(22)
4 Favored Hoplite
2 Akroan Crusader
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Phalanx Leader
3 Akroan Hoplite
3 Fabled Hero
2 Anax and Cymede
2 Martial Glory
3 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Titan's Strength
3 Gods Willing
4 Boros Charm
1 Gods Willing
2 Martial Glory
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Brave the Elements
4 Burning Earth
Watching the creatures alone, it is like an aggro deck, but with less creatures than usual (not so few either). 12 one-drops, followed by 8 2-drops and 6 potentially 3-drop killers, the mana curve goes well for our creatures.
We can see 16 heroic enablers here, which also comes in 1 mana, 2 mana and three mana. We are trying to make our single or two creatures to deal pretty heavy damage, while they keep growing in size.
Martial Glory could be seen as a terrible Giant Growth, but the truth is, it is an awesome heroic enabler, making two creature to pump, which also can make them evade some cards like Lightning Strike, Shock, Magma Jet, Anger of the Gods). So well, I don't see the famous Anger of the Gods as a real menace here, since our creatures could survive with their +1/+1 counters and protections.
Also, Fires of the Firebrand is an incredible heroic enabler, it can pump up to three creatures, which I may say is awesome for three mana, there is no best heroic enabler out there, having the flexibility to throw the uneeded damage to the opponent or his/her creatures. It is a toolkit which kills blockers, activates heroic, or finishes off the opponent's last renmants of life.
Red and white are the best combination for heroics, since it has the cheapest heroic creatures out there. I'm pretty sure this kind of deck will be hard-to-deal against, I have made some testings and it runs pretty sweet and consistent, but next week I will prove it for real in tournament, so I could make a primer or something later if everything goes well.
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
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UGBack to Square OneGU
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GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
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Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
I digged into some rules, and you're totally right, fixed already. Thank you for the advice
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
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Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
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Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
[THS|SOM|5TH] Devotion to Black
Enchantment creatures get along well in not-so-fast heroic strategies, because they become a creature if you kill the enchanted one, preventing you to lose field presence so easily. Boon Satyr and Feral Invocation are nice because flash, allowing for some combat tricks and value. Too bad green heroic creatures are so expensive and have no protection by themselves, unless you use something like Alpha Authority first, an enchantment that does nothing besides of hexproof and another ability you barely need.
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
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Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
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GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
Personally, i think Gods Willing is pretty, pretty good. At very early this deck put' a massive amount of threat and a single answer-to-answer play will win many games. Time Walking with 4~5 power on the field turn 3 is just very cruel.
The main weakness is consistency. If you don't play first a control player can too easilly get hold of the situation. A turn 2 syncopate for example is killer. The reason why this deck is weaker for that sort of thing then other aggro variants is because you sacrifice reach and threat density for synergy and if the opponent can cut part of your synergy you're left with a much weaker version of aggro deck in hands. Answering a single card in the right time will have a enormous net effetc in terms of damage prevented.
Not saying this have a bad match up vs. control (i've tested enough for that), just saying there are cases almost impossible to win and those cases are not super rare (like t2 syncopates / a.charm).
Anyway, it's certainly a great deck and it's pretty fun to pilot. I surely bet this have a tier 2 status imo I can see this getting in better tiers.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
You're also seriously dependent on synergy so as said earlier, you won't have the critical mass necessary to make it worth using relatively sub-par cards or you won't have enough threat density for a proper aggro deck
My bads, you're right xD. Updated list, so they're 24 now.
I'm pretty sure it can go well in the ranks, but it is a pretty explosive deck, so it needs to perform well in the first 3 turns in order to be effective. Of course, counters will be a great problem, now that they regained their former glory after Cavern of Souls rotation. A green version has access to Ranger's Guile too, increasing your chances to win against control decks, so I think a naya heroic is possible, but with more mana issues. You're right about God's Willing, more with all removal it exists right now, or just to deliver an unblockable finishing strike.
That is totally true, it is needed to have certain rythm in order to this kind of deck to work. Is not just aggro or tempo, is an aggro-tempo actually, sometimes being more aggro and sometimes more tempo. Sometimes you find yourself with many creatures which are being pumped up, and sometimes you have only one or two, with tricky powerful hits. In any case, is an explosive deck, fragile indeed, but fast overtures can take on control and mid-games before they can place something, and against aggro it can finish up with bigger creatures, being able to both attack and defend aggressively. Against counters, having a creature on field and instants to protect it can frustrate your opponent, making your aggressors just bigger, and sometimes you can get frustrated by watching all your creatures to die.
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Boros Guildgate
2 Mutavault
12 Plains
4 Favored Hoplite
3 Imposing Sovereign
2 Cavalry Pegasus
3 Precinct Captain
4 Phalanx Leader
3 Anax and Cymede
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Spear of Heliod
Spells 14
3 Martial Glory
3 Brave the Elements
4 Coordinated Assault
4 Flames of the Firebrand
I think I'm stretching a little too much with the Mutavaults, they may not be worth the 5th tap land.
I really dislike your mana. 14 white sources when trying to cast Phalanx Leader on turn two... even 14 white for Fabled Hero is really pushing things, only 10 sources to cast Akroan Crusader on turn one. Only 20 lands while having 4 drops (Eidolon bestow).
Then there's the card choices. Cavalry Pegasus is amazing, Anax and Cymede is the best hero in the deck... why only two?, no Coordinated Assault, and God's Willing over Brave the Elements. Your protection isn't that good and the evasion is poor. That's not where you want to be in a deck that has to use it's spell slots on cards other than removal.
Your deck seems pretty aggro enough to not use taplands, problem is that you don't want to waste a turn scrying or fixing mana. Mutavaults, in other hand, are pretty good with Phalanx Leader, since they can receive the counters too so, even if you get wiped, you still have a 2/2 land with some +1/+1 counters on it, it can finish up the job by itself.
I was thinking about that turn 1, and I guess it would be better to remove 2 Akroan Crusader for 2 Mutavault.
Definitely, I don't want more than six three-mana-drops on the deck, third turn is more likely to be used to enable heroics and swing massive damage, because turn 4 is where creatures will start up to die easier.
I chosed Gods Willing over Brave the Elements because it enables heroics and scries at the same time. Scry is always good, you just can get rid of that unnecessary land or filter a creature when you may prefer an enabler, anyway, both options are equally good, with their respective differences. Your ideas aren't bad either, the pegasus seems fragile but powerful with a good board presence. If it weren't by the fact I decided to make it Black/White now instead, I would keep fixing this, lol. At least it works as a guide
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
I am considering legion loyalist and boros elite as one drops, I think elite will work better than our other one drop heroic options. 3/3 is more value than hoplite or crusader will likely get for us with heroic, and our deck shouldn't have an issue with battalion. and it leaves our spells to target our more valuable heroic triggers, and even boosting elite with no trigger isn't terrible
i'm also considering dauntless onslaught over flames of the firebrand, having the option to 3 dam your opp or a creature is nice, but not as a sorcery. adding 4+ damage to an attack and triggering heroic twice is great at instant speed
I like fabled hero, but boros reckoner is really great, and hard to cut. just because we use heroic doesn't mean everything has to be heroic.
also I think Dragon mantle deserves consideration, trigger heroic, firebreathing, and replaces itself is very nice. I almost want to lean on enchantments now because ethereal armor synergy with it and chained to the rocks is powerful. but its hard to move away from instant speed tricks.
my sideboard may include spear of heliod, frontline medic, brave the elements, and chained to the rocks if I don't run some mainboard
Modern: Affinity.
Standard: UB Control
EDH: R Purphoros, God of the Forge R
GWBRUSliver Hivelord
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
7 Mountain
7 Plains
Creatures (20)
4 Hopeful Eidolon
2 Akroan Crusader
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Phalanx Leader
2 Fabled Hero
2 Boros Reckoner
2 Anax and Cymede
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Martial Glory
2 Gods Willing
2 Boros Charm
2 Coordinated Assault
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Chained to the Rocks
I've revised this slightly. I'm still not sold on manavault, because with so many one-drops, we can't afford the colorless mana source, I don't think. I keep as many one-drops as possible to keep the tempo, and Chained is great for this.
Legion Loyalist is always a good one, more on this kind of deck, creatures tend to be 3+ power, and having first strike and trample matters on that situations.
Boros Elite seems good even as a T2 drop, but maybe I would go for a consistent 2 hit with Firedrinker Satyr or Soldier of the Pantheon. They are just still better.
Both are great on their own ways, depending the match, one can be better than the other.
That's right, not everything must be heroics, but benefit from combat tricks I may say that both creatures have different roles. Boros Reckoner is better as a defense or to ensure that the last 3 damage connect, while Fabled Hero can instantly deplete all our opponent's life. Of course Reckoner is better against burn or aggro decks, it all depends of what you expect for your 3-drop creature.
I remember when Stonewright was played a lot in monored aggro, it was awesome because all your manabase is red, so you never leave leftovers unused. Dragon Mantle's best ability is to replace itself to draw another card, maybe another heroic enabler or a land we are missing, although the firebreathing is not that awesome in dual-colored decks. But as yo usay, it still deserves consideration, is very useful. Also, moving to aura is not a bad deal, actually is a pretty good alternative, you have some protection with Gods Willing and Brave the Elements after all, so is not that easy to kill your voltron creature either.
I just got an idea of a Turn 3 killing deck, seems to be kind of consistent on that job, but is still missing a decent sideboard option, hahah.
4 Sacred Foundry
10 Plains
6 Mountain
Creatures(18)
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Dryad Militant
2 Fencing Ace
4 Madcap Skills
4 Ethereal Armor
Spells(10)
2 Armed // Dangerous
4 Boros Charm
4 Gods Willing
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Celestial Flare
4 Brave the Elements
3 Burning Earth
It works pretty simple, there are many ways to achieve this:
T1: Plains + Favored Hoplite
T2: Mountain + Madcap Skills, swing for 5
T3: Plains + Ethereal Armor, + Boros Charm, swing for 18 (or if he/she landburnt himself/herself, you can just make Boros Charm and Gods Willing and swing for 14 (thats 19 overall, if he burnt himself/herself with shockland, is gg)
or
T1: Plains + Hopeful Eidolon
T2: Plains + Ethereal Armor + Ethereal Armor, swing for 7
T3: Mountain + Boros Charm, swing for 14 (you can use Gods Willing for unblockability and protection too.
or
T1: Plains + Soldier of the Pantheon
T2: Mountain + Madcap SKills, swing for 5
T3: Plains + Ethereal Armor + Boros Charm, swing for 14 (again, it works if he/she got a landburn)
or
T1: Plains
T2: Plains + Fencing Ace
T3: Plains + 3 Ethereal Armor, swing for 20 (sadly, no evasion on this one)
Would this deck have a chance? Just wondering
Seems quick enough to win in 4 or 5 turns I really like it. Mutavault wasn't better here anyway because of Boros Reckoner and the one mana drops as you mentioned..
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
Possibly so, but the reliance on enchantments is iffy. Also, there's no heroic synergy, so I don't really know if it could be called "heroic". Your only heroic creature is Favored Hoplite, and even that doesn't give global benefits based on heroic. The problem with it is that its benefit is limited to itself. Also, Dryad Militant seems like a really niche card.
Thank you! In this meta, you have to have pretty good justification for not using mutavault.
With only 4 one drops having a tap land come down on turn 1 isn't the worst thing in the world. After thinking about it for a bit though I do feel the Mutavaults are worth the price. They'll screw you in about 3% of games and the tap lands will screw you in another 2% of games. If the color screw causes a game to go from 50/50 to 35/65 it means you lose an additional 1.2 out of 100 games but the power of Mutavault is such that it's likely winning you more than 1.2 out of 100 games.
I agree about the number of three drops in theory, but in practice the deck seems to want a lot of them. The big three drop in this deck is Flames of the Firebrand. It's removal and heroic pump. So I'm a little higher on three drops. If I had to cut it to just six though, I think 3 Anax and 3 Flames would be the call, cutting the spear and paladin. In my opinion though it's fine to be higher on 3 drops. The power level of the past couple sets has been such that 3 drops are the new 4 drop. So having a number of three drops equal to previous decks 3+4's is fine.
2x Mutavault
6x Mountain
6x Plains
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple of Triumph
// Creatures
3x Arena Athlete
4x Akroan Crusader
4x Hopeful Eidolon
3x Purphoros, God of the Forge
3x Anax and Cymede
3x Chained to the Rocks
4x Dragon Mantle
3x Boros Charm
3x Spear of Heliod
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Flames of the Firebrand
4x Skullcrack
4x Mindsparker
4x Judge's Familiar
3x Wear/Tear
Thought's thus far are this:
[CARD]
Akroan Crusader[/CARD] is a 4x just because if you turn two Mantle/Armor, it's 5 to the face with 3 bodies on the board, and you can easily knock most decks down to 10 with that alone. Other than that, he is just great for creating board presence and allowing you to hold back in case of sweeps.
Arena Athlete over Akroan Hoplite for more evasion and a smoother mana-base.
Spear of Heliod is an auto-include, and allows for you to hit heroics with Flames of the Firebrand.
[CARD]
Dragon's mantle[/CARD] has to be 4x just for the cantrip ability, activating heroic cheaply and also pumping Ethereal Armor. The firebreath also comes in handy but is overall just gravy.
Someone else should try out the list and tell me what they think.
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
7 Plains
7 Mountain
Creatures (18)
4 Fabled Hero
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Phalanx Leader
4 Minotaur Skullcleaver
4 Magma Jet
4 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Celestial Flare
4 Boros Charm
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Immortal Servitude
3 Peak Eruption
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Stormbreath Dragon/Skullcrack
Anax and Cymede is simply too slow. You play it and it doesn't do anything until the next turn. Additionally, its ability is not static. It lasts one turn. The enchantment factor of Hopeful Eidolon is nice, but it's too slow for its enchantment bonus and it's a turn one 1/1 lifelinker. I've had issues with Chained being bumped back to my hand, so I don't main deck it against much. I tried planeswalkers, but this build sort of fights their addition with what it's trying to accomplish, which is a quick win against mid-range and everything else.
I'm interested in know why you choosed Soldier of the Pantheon over Favored Hoplite. for reckoners and bte? I'm not saying is a bad move, just actually I don't know what was the reason and I'm curious
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
4 Fabled Hero
2 Firemane Avenger
4 Phalanx Leader
4 Precinct Captain
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
2 Tajic, Blade of the Legion
1 Brave the Elements
2 Coordinated Assault
2 Gods Willing
2 Spear of Heliod
2 Swift Justice
1 Titan's Strength
6 Mountains
7 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
The sideboard was crap. I only went 1-3, but it was a great learning experience. Coordinated Assault and Swift Justice are both great in this kind of deck. Especially Coordinated Assault. I want more Titan's Strength. The scry is very relevant. I'm going to cut the 4-drops. They were only in there because I really wanted to make them work.
I'd rather run Legion's Initiative over the Spear. It helps evade wraths. But in a deck relying on Instants to trigger Heroic, I might take out the enchantments all together. I do have an enchantment version I'm tinkering with. Phalanx Leader, in my friend's words, is a trap. I found myself not wanting him late game. I'm looking at Firefist Striker in his place. A set of Boros Charms is also too much. Gonna cut that down to two. I'm having a hard time deciding between Gods Willing and Brave the Elements. Gods Willing triggers Heroic, but Brave helps you get in there for a final swing. I also like the scry on Gods Willing.
I like Anax and Cymede. It is a little slow, but if you can untap with it, it's pretty good. I don't wanna run four, though. Three feels like a good number. I'm definitely going to come down on the lands since I'm not running Mutavault. Twenty-three was too many. Twenty or twenty-one seem better.
The 1-2 i lost two close games with no SB. One of them to GW tokes where i forgot the Legion Loyalist's token can't block ability, so I didn't attack in to a couple of worm tokens. The 3-1 Daily (Dugregej) went well, only losing to GW (MTGOstark, also 3-1) and manascrew.
As you can see this is only focused on instants and sorceries.
The only creature I'm not sure about, is the Ogre Battledriver. Most of the times when it comes out, it feels like I should have won by then. I am considering going with the Red god instead. 2 dmg to the face or +2 and haste are about even and the pump is nice for flood games, or games where he comes down after tokens have been generated from Young Pyromancer and Akron Crusader. The problem is that this deck rarely has the red devotion to turn him on.
On the other hand, Legion Loyalist is an all-star. As long as I can attack with 3 creatures it gets almost impossible to block. First strike and a wealth of combat tricks insures that almost whatever the block with will die and my guys survive, and the trample ensures that all power that have been pumped into block creatures still goes to the face
In the spells department the Boros Charm is great in all 3 modes. Double strike on a Phalanx Leader or Anax and Cymede is great, 4 to the face when they have killed my guys. Avoiding a board wipe with it is fantastic, and normally a win.
Coordinated Assault, Martial Glory and also Flames of the Firebrand are mostly used to trigger heroic. Gods Willing is great both on offence and defense
The Sideboard is a work in progress.
7 Mountain
6 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Akroan Crusader
2 Anax and Cymede
4 Legion Loyalist
2 Ogre Battledriver
4 Phalanx Leader
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Coordinated Assault
2 Dynacharge
3 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Gods Willing
3 Martial Glory
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Burning Earth
2 Pithing Needle
1 Dynacharge
1 Martial Glory
Multicolored cards eat up the metagame in many circumstances, and this deck's biggest weakness is mid-range. Also, I just don't see the appeal of the hoplite. He seems really slow and isolated. If I'm going to add in a heroic spell, I want something that isn't going to just pump itself and something that has a permanent effect. Fabled is an exception to this rule because he's not at all slow for a turn three.
Basically, the reason is efficiency. If I'm going to have even a minute chance of standing up to some of the scarier decks, I want the deck to do what it can as quickly as possible, and I don't want to sink the spells on a heroic that only targets itself and only becomes a 2 power when it's targeted once. The life gain from it has been good, but mostly the ability to not be blocked by multicolored is a huge help.
First - i think that these lists are being a little too cute with heroic and heroic triggers. I'm using both but in very limited numbers. Heroic can be a good ability but you need to be more creative about how you trigger it. Just casting god's willing or some kind of a combat trick isn't good enough. Pit fight is a target card that also does something very permanent to your opponent's board, and dragon mantle is one of the better auras available in standard right now.
My way of thinking is that you need to build around the best cards - and that would be boros reckoner and anax and cymede - but you can supplement the gameplan with heroic cards and triggers here and there. I also recommend using legion's initiative on turn 2.
So my most interesting suggestion is pit fight. That targets your creature, triggering a counter and you usually get to kill one of your opponents creatures as well if you're playing on tempo. I've been using 2 or 3 pit fights and casting them on either favored hoplite or boros reckoner. There is essentially no creature that boros reckoner can't kill when you cast pit fight on him. Pit fight isn't there solely for combat tricks either. It allows you a chance to kill almost any problem creature. If you're hoping to keep your own creature alive then it helps a lot if the creature you're using for the fight is able to prevent or return all damage done to it.
T1: him - cackler, you - hoplite
T2: him ash zealot, you - pit fight.
You get to pump your hoplite, remove his ash zealot and you still have a creature big enough to block the rakdos cackler.
Then since i'm using legion's initiative i have also gotten good use out of spark trooper.
Legion loyalist, anax and cymede and possibly aurelia's fury can all allow you to have a big turn of damage. The important thing to keep in mind is that you need to have creatures that are good even when you don't have a way to trigger heroic. Legion's initiative makes the boros 3-drops very efficient.
I don't have the list on me but i can write something up later.