I'm not really looking to splash another colour, but I am looking to trim it down a little and gradually add to it to make it a solid competitive deck.
The main idea is the standard hexproof aura (aggro?), but there is a bit of life gain to stabilize and trigger Angelic Accord. The heavy enchantment works with Ajani's Chosen and the tokens work to fill out the ranks a little (and go well with Trostani).
I dunno. It's pretty straight forward. A little jenky to force lifegain and Angelic Accord, but I like it. I'll be adding Unflinching Courage for sure once I get my hands on some. Maybe even Sigarda, Host of Herons.
Gonna wait till Theros before picking anything up though.
Any tips or advice (Semi budget) welcome.
TBH the lack of lifegain makes running the angel accord/ elixir / trostani a bit sketchy. I'd also run more brave the elements as with this particular build. You seem to want to go more mid-range with the deck, what about loxodon smiters?
I was thinking of grabbing some Loxodon Smiters :D, after we see what Theros has to offer. I'm not sure what I'd cut for them or how many I'd run.
The life gain was ramped up a lot when I was running a bunch of Divine Favor and Soul Mender (This started as a couple of the white 2014 intro packs) but I switched them out once I went hexproof.
I was also thinking about throwing in Silence
One mana to potentially mess up an opponent's plan for a turn (Stop a board wipe)?
Of course, its not counter spell so you never know if its worked or not. Brave the Elements is probably better.
If you are really not going to be getting cards or playing it the way you want it to be for over two months, it's good that you communicated that. Much advice will be obsolete by that point.
Both Sigarda and Avacyn's Pilgrim are rotating out, so you won't be able to play either in standard post-Theros.
Obvious advice if you want to do hexproof (subject to your budget): +Temple Garden, +Witchstalker.
Curving is a little tricky, so I was thinking of adding some Avacyn's Pilgrim but thats 4 more creatures I need to find room for.
I would say that you should present the deck that you will have after the changes you know you will make. Reacting to cards that you are already planning on removing wastes everybody's time.
I agree that mana dorks will help: post rotation that means Elvish Mystic, Manaweft Sliver or whatever dork comes with Theros. It seems like you don't need the fixing for now, so plan on 3-4 Elvish Mystics for now.
This! Successful hexproof decks have mostly 1 plan: hexproof creature, enchant, kill. With basically all their cards devoted to that plan, they still mulligan a lot because they don't have a good combination of "suitable" creatures, auras and land.
I count at least 5 plans in your deck:
That seems like too many. You will too often have the wrong combinations of things or your opponent will end up answering the plan you have the most support for. I would focus on a maximum of two plans and get the best cards to support them. You could try putting a third plan in the sideboard (I favor removal, as not all opponents will have creatures targetable and worth targetting).
If you are really not going to be getting cards or playing it the way you want it to be for over two months, it's good that you communicated that. Much advice will be obsolete by that point.
Both Sigarda and Avacyn's Pilgrim are rotating out, so you won't be able to play either in standard post-Theros.
Obvious advice if you want to do hexproof (subject to your budget): +Temple Garden, +Witchstalker.
Good versatile answer: Selesnya Charm
Cards to remove: Suntail Hawk, Alpha Authority
I would say that you should present the deck that you will have after the changes you know you will make. Reacting to cards that you are already planning on removing wastes everybody's time.
I agree that mana dorks will help: post rotation that means Elvish Mystic, Manaweft Sliver or whatever dork comes with Theros. It seems like you don't need the fixing for now, so plan on 3-4 Elvish Mystics for now.
This! Successful hexproof decks have mostly 1 plan: hexproof creature, enchant, kill. With basically all their cards devoted to that plan, they still mulligan a lot because they don't have a good combination of "suitable" creatures, auras and land.
I count at least 5 plans in your deck:
That seems like too many. You will too often have the wrong combinations of things or your opponent will end up answering the plan you have the most support for. I would focus on a maximum of two plans and get the best cards to support them. You could try putting a third plan in the sideboard (I favor removal, as not all opponents will have creatures targetable and worth targetting).
Just my $.02 and worth what you paid for it.
Hey dude thanks for the input!
I know its a little all over the place right now, thats why I posted it! (I've only been into magic for a year and a bit. I'm still not great at building a tight deck.)
I wasn't sure what is rotating when.. Aren't both core sets in right now? I thought Theros would push out M13.
Anyways.
The main plan being hexproof enchant. (Specifically gladecover elf into ethereal armor etc.) And the secondary being angel token lifegain, was the original idea, but Ajani's chosen works so well with hexproof auras (since I'm running a lot of enchantments anyways) it's kind of shoved out lifegain a bit.
Triumph of ferocity isn't really a win con, but again pumps ethereal armor and a big aura voltron will usually give me the draw.
The removal works with ethereal armor and just curves well.
But I totally agree. It is all over the place and should probably have two plans main deck.
So if I just went Hex enchant main and either life gain tokens or cat tokens that would make it run better.
I'm not a huge fan of selesnya charm, but the +2/+2 and exile are probably pretty handy.
Witchstalker is 1GG so without fixing/dorks clashes with fiendslayer/ajani's chosen/Banisher Priest.
I'll do some tinkering with your advice and see what I come up with.
The main plan being hexproof enchant. (Specifically gladecover elf into ethereal armor etc.) ...
So if I just went Hex enchant main and either life gain tokens or cat tokens that would make it run better.
...
Witchstalker is 1GG so without fixing/dorks clashes with fiendslayer/ajani's chosen/Banisher Priest.
Thanks for taking my criticism so graciously.
I would like to just draw your attention to something I find confusing. I apologize in advance for my limited understanding.
You say you want hexproof as your main plan. You avoid half of the possible cards that are the limiting factor of your main plan in order to support a tertiary plan.
It's your deck. You have a unique creative contribution. This just reminds me of many of my own decks that didn't work that well.
I would like to just draw your attention to something I find confusing. I apologize in advance for my limited understanding.
You say you want hexproof as your main plan. You avoid half of the possible cards that are the limiting factor of your main plan in order to support a tertiary plan.
It's your deck. You have a unique creative contribution. This just reminds me of many of my own decks that didn't work that well.
Enjoy!
I'm not quite sure I understand. Are you asking why my deck isn't as hexproof/aura focused as it should be compared to the other "themes" it has?
Cause there's an easy answer to that, I'm pretty terrible at building focused decks!
But really, I took a couple white M14 intro packs and decided to turn it into a deck that could make Angelic Accord work, than figured the colors and curve would work well with Hexproof auras.
I guess I tend to throw stuff at a deck to see what sticks, and cut as I go.
But yes, you are completely correct. The balance of the deck is off if I want to go really aggro hexproof. Midrange hexproof might be a better bet if I want to use the lifegain, but I still have to mess around with it quite a bit to see how it'll work.
Losing the 2 drop (Invisible stalker) and Geist of St. Traft really limits the options of getting that really nice opening hand necessary to make it work like those top tier aggro hexproof decks.
I don't know if I can make this thing work tournament well, but my goal is to at least get it FNM worthy, or at least closer to it than my last deck.
But it's mostly an academic exercise till the first set of Theros is out in a month. Just trying to get better at building decks that run smoothly and do what they're supposed to do! (Not necessarily beat a top tier deck easily, but at least an honest go at a deck that's more competitive than my usual stuff.)
For probably my second "serious" deck I've tried building its still pretty jenky right now.
That's probably why I chose hexproof auras. Geist Hexproof auras is one of those top tier decks that seems to be one I understand.
And since I like the idea of it and I'm stubborn/creative enough to try and force it into W/G, here we are.
Well W/G hexproof was a very successful modern deck in worlds. The problem is Standard lacks some of the tools that modern has.
And just to be clear, lifegain and hexproof auras are different decks. Hexproof auras aims to make one or two creatures so imposing, powerful and difficult to remove that they win the game. Life gain from those auras are a secondary benefit. For example, Unflinching Courage gives +2/2 and trample, which will win you games. The lifelink is a bonus.
Lifegain decks aim to use lifegain to either completely stall you out until they drop their wincon or use other cards like Sanguine Bond or Felidar Sovereign (in modern) to win.
So I think you need to further split your ideas of hexproof lifegain into two different decks. In general life gain is used to stabilize your deck and stop your opponents offense. If you look at B/G Rock decks, they use Thragtusk and Disciple of Bolas, not purely for life gain but to stabilize the board and gain card advantage.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
I'm not quite sure I understand. Are you asking why my deck isn't as hexproof/aura focused as it should be compared to the other "themes" it has?
But yes, you are completely correct. The balance of the deck is off if I want to go really aggro hexproof. Midrange hexproof might be a better bet if I want to use the lifegain, but I still have to mess around with it quite a bit to see how it'll work.
That's probably why I chose hexproof auras. Geist Hexproof auras is one of those top tier decks that seems to be one I understand.
And since I like the idea of it and I'm stubborn/creative enough to try and force it into W/G, here we are.
It probably won't work well.
I completely understand wanting to try something different than netdecking bant hexproof.
I am afraid I wasn't clear.
What makes no sense to me is to want to run W/G hexproof and not run Witchstalker. When your main plan is hexproof and you find a reason based on the third or fourth plan of your deck to avoid running 4 of the 8 hexproof cards that are available in your colors, I don't know how you can tell yourself that your main plan is hexproof.
With Witchstalker and Scout you have something like 75% chance of getting a hexproof creature in your opening hand. With just Scout, you are below 50% chance.
I suck at building focused decks, but even I know to start with Gladecover Scout and Witchstalker and don't take them out for anything if hexproof is my main plan.
But my confusion is my problem, not yours. As long as you enjoy playing your deck, that's all that matters.
Well W/G hexproof was a very successful modern deck in worlds. The problem is Standard lacks some of the tools that modern has.
And just to be clear, lifegain and hexproof auras are different decks. Hexproof auras aims to make one or two creatures so imposing, powerful and difficult to remove that they win the game. Life gain from those auras are a secondary benefit. For example, Unflinching Courage gives +2/2 and trample, which will win you games. The lifelink is a bonus.
Lifegain decks aim to use lifegain to either completely stall you out until they drop their wincon or use other cards like Sanguine Bond or Felidar Sovereign (in modern) to win.
So I think you need to further split your ideas of hexproof lifegain into two different decks. In general life gain is used to stabilize your deck and stop your opponents offense. If you look at B/G Rock decks, they use Thragtusk and Disciple of Bolas, not purely for life gain but to stabilize the board and gain card advantage.
Yeah I know what you're talking about. I've been contemplating splitting it into two, but original idea was to have hexproof support the lifegain. (Since it's pretty easy to throw down enchantments that give life and with Ajani's Chosen, Trostani, etc, it sort of could all work together in a big jenky ball of life gaining creature token making goodness....)
I know. Kind of a strange evolution.
I guess for one deck I'm trying to push Angelic Accord + Lifegain as the main win con (mid game) and hexproof as the early aggro/additional life gain engine.
And the other direction is straight up G/W Hexproof Auras.
I completely understand wanting to try something different than netdecking bant hexproof.
I am afraid I wasn't clear.
What makes no sense to me is to want to run W/G hexproof and not run Witchstalker. When your main plan is hexproof and you find a reason based on the third or fourth plan of your deck to avoid running 4 of the 8 hexproof cards that are available in your colors, I don't know how you can tell yourself that your main plan is hexproof.
With Witchstalker and Scout you have something like 75% chance of getting a hexproof creature in your opening hand. With just Scout, you are below 50% chance.
I suck at building focused decks, but even I know to start with Gladecover Scout and Witchstalker and don't take them out for anything if hexproof is my main plan.
But my confusion is my problem, not yours. As long as you enjoy playing your deck, that's all that matters.
Oh sorry my bad! Here's my latest list I've been toying with (solitair testing).
Totally a bit more hexproof "focused". The original mainly had to witchstalkers cut for mana fixing reasons, but now the deck is pretty green so no more Brave the Elements main deck..
So yeah, now its a bit more hexproof and still using the extra lifegain (from trostani/tokens/lifelink) to crank out a few angels.
Or just swarm cat tokens.
Still needs work.
I really like the spot removal of the Banisher Priest, but I guess thats sideboard now.
Now I really want to run 4 Predatory Slivers... I'm hopeless.
that leaves 12-16 more cards for theros to fill in, and since it's an enchantment block and hopefully there will be some competitive creatures with bestow, that means it's likely the deck will get some very good tools
Yeah!! Bestow looks super cool as long as we get some low to mid cost cards with it. I love that it sticks around if the thing it's attached to leaves the battlefield.
Do you think there is any room for protection in this deck? Particularly, Sphere of Safety, or even Pacifism / Arrest for creature control? Since it's already midrange, I was curious on if there would be room for a little control just in case the deck runs a bit slow.
Chain to the rocks will be the removal as it is 1 cmc. Edit: Nvm - requires mountains.
I am actually not sure about Voice. I am thinking Slyvian Caryatid Might be in the 2 CMC spot.
I think your base is right, but I would want some acceleration as many of the super strong enchantments are 3cmc. Gift of Immortality forexample is broken good on a hexproof creature.
I would probably go something like this:
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Sylvian Caryatid
4x Witchstalker
2-4x Fiendslayer Paladin
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Gift of Immortality
2x Bow of Nylea
4x Unflinching Courage/Trollhide
2-4x Gods Willing
2-4x Pacifism
Chain to the rocks will be the removal as it is 1 cmc. Edit: Nvm - requires mountains.
I am actually not sure about Voice. I am thinking Slyvian Caryatid Might be in the 2 CMC spot.
I think your base is right, but I would want some acceleration as many of the super strong enchantments are 3cmc. Gift of Immortality forexample is broken good on a hexproof creature.
I would probably go something like this:
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Sylvian Caryatid
4x Witchstalker
2-4x Fiendslayer Paladin
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Gift of Immortality
2x Bow of Nylea
4x Unflinching Courage/Trollhide
2-4x Gods Willing
2-4x Pacifism
Maybe phalanx leader, but the deck needs some draw. That is what let Reid Duke's deck function so well.
Slyvian Caryatid...
Hellooooo beautiful! ;D
A hard to remove flexible mana dork (that evolves other stuff) is NICE.
I will take 8+
4 for hexproof (well maybe not since it can't attack) and 4 for my Simic deck.
Have you guys considered putting red in as well? If you enchant a creature with alpha authority with madcap skills you have a unblockable hexproof creature with at least 3+ on attack...plus there are some decent (albeit expensive) enchantments like shiv's embrace...Legion's Initiative is another good card against sweeps...
the only other idea I had was possibly W/B/G...there are some very good black enchantments...however many are defensive as opposed to offensive...some good enchantments include dark favor, deviant glee, etc....also a offensive card that can be devastating is Contaminated Ground, especially against agro decks..
either way your thoughts are appreciated!
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Have you guys considered putting red in as well? If you enchant a creature with alpha authority with madcap skills you have a unblockable hexproof creature with at least 3+ on attack...plus there are some decent (albeit expensive) enchantments like shiv's embrace...Legion's Initiative is another good card against sweeps...
the only other idea I had was possibly W/B/G...there are some very good black enchantments...however many are defensive as opposed to offensive...some good enchantments include dark favor, deviant glee, etc....also a offensive card that can be devastating is Contaminated Ground, especially against agro decks..
either way your thoughts are appreciated!
Yeah, if you have enough dual lands, Red (or Black) White Green could work.
I would avoid double colours (RR for shiv's embrace) to make it run smooth (since our hexproof is already G and GG1).
Madcap skills plus alpha authority could be fun, but only if you have Ethereal Armor to hit hard.
It's a neat deck because your "finishers" are pretty low cost.
Fleecemane Lion seems to indicate that Wizard wants standard G/W hexproof to be a thing even more.
He doesn't become relevant in hexproof until after verdict mana is on the board, which is basically the only thing the "indestructible" part is relevant against now that terminus is rotating. There's still a lot of wicked sweet edicts (Devour Flesh, Celestial Flare), and I'd put money on Merciless Eviction starting to see play in this block.
So, basically, he's a really, really, really slow hexproof that you can't safely suit up until turn 6 or later.
That's really not how hexproof decks are supposed to work.
the Voice could end up being the new watchwolf that just got spoiled since it dodges most of the burn related removal(shock/magma jet) and when you get to 5, if its not dead you get to make him hexproof/indestructible.
And yes there is celestial flare/devour flesh but those arent sued that much outside of a way to hate on the current aura deck.
Now there's the ten million dollar question...does monstrosity mean you HAVE to pay the monstrosity cost, or if you just place a +1/+1 counter on Fleecemane Lion, is it then monstrous? Turn 2 Fleecemane Lion, turn 3 ajani, put a counter on him...or even phalax leader turn three with ethereal armor SHOULD make Fleecemane Lion monstrous and therefore hexproof and indestructible...also hunt the weak would also work...fighting a 3/3 when our 3/3 is indestructible isn't too bad for 4...thoughts?
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Now there's the ten million dollar question...does monstrosity mean you HAVE to pay the monstrosity cost, or if you just place a +1/+1 counter on Fleecemane Lion, is it then monstrous? Turn 2 Fleecemane Lion, turn 3 ajani, put a counter on him...or even phalax leader turn three with ethereal armor SHOULD make Fleecemane Lion monstrous and therefore hexproof and indestructible...also hunt the weak would also work...fighting a 3/3 when our 3/3 is indestructible isn't too bad for 4...thoughts?
Naw sorry dude, monstrous doesn't work like that. The +1/+1 counters are just a memory aid and mechanically don't 'make' the creature monstrous.
You have to pay the cost.
Maybe we'll get an enchantment or something that will make all your monstrosity trigger like Moonmist. ;D
So far there isn't enough juice to make hexproof auras competitive, but the good news is that it's hard to believe that they won't make a playable bestow aura.
You can make a pretty decent post-rotation g/w version right now, without even including any theros cards. Losing checklands and rancor are the biggest problems.
Fiendslayer paladin is a lot better than witchstalker. It may seem counterintuitive for me to say that because he lacks hexproof but if you play with them for a while you'll see what i mean. Red and black need to target him but they can't. Green can't target him (aside from stuff like pit fight). White and blue can target him but in that case you can just use him as a straight creature. Save the aura for later.
The deck is really going to need to have at least one quality bestow card and it will need at least one really good aura to replace rancor. Ajani is still available so that'll help.
Don't underestimate the changing atmosphere of standard either. Checklands out. Scry-lands in. Lots of signs that the format is going to shift from 3 color to 2 color and the format is looking like it'll be slower too. A slower format will allow us to suit up slower, so we need to see what else is coming before we decide that a card like fleecemane is too slow. It might be right on time in the new standard.
TBH the lack of lifegain makes running the angel accord/ elixir / trostani a bit sketchy. I'd also run more brave the elements as with this particular build. You seem to want to go more mid-range with the deck, what about loxodon smiters?
The life gain was ramped up a lot when I was running a bunch of Divine Favor and Soul Mender (This started as a couple of the white 2014 intro packs) but I switched them out once I went hexproof.
I think once I put in more Unflinching Courage and maybe Gift of Orzohva and a couple more Fiendslayer Paladin all the lifelink will make the lifegain pretty consistent.
Curving is a little tricky, so I was thinking of adding some Avacyn's Pilgrim but thats 4 more creatures I need to find room for.
One mana to potentially mess up an opponent's plan for a turn (Stop a board wipe)?
Of course, its not counter spell so you never know if its worked or not.
Brave the Elements is probably better.
If you are really not going to be getting cards or playing it the way you want it to be for over two months, it's good that you communicated that. Much advice will be obsolete by that point.
Both Sigarda and Avacyn's Pilgrim are rotating out, so you won't be able to play either in standard post-Theros.
Obvious advice if you want to do hexproof (subject to your budget): +Temple Garden, +Witchstalker.
Good versatile answer: Selesnya Charm
Cards to remove: Suntail Hawk, Alpha Authority
I would say that you should present the deck that you will have after the changes you know you will make. Reacting to cards that you are already planning on removing wastes everybody's time.
I agree that mana dorks will help: post rotation that means Elvish Mystic, Manaweft Sliver or whatever dork comes with Theros. It seems like you don't need the fixing for now, so plan on 3-4 Elvish Mystics for now.
This! Successful hexproof decks have mostly 1 plan: hexproof creature, enchant, kill. With basically all their cards devoted to that plan, they still mulligan a lot because they don't have a good combination of "suitable" creatures, auras and land.
I count at least 5 plans in your deck:
Just my $.02 and worth what you paid for it.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Hey dude thanks for the input!
I know its a little all over the place right now, thats why I posted it! (I've only been into magic for a year and a bit. I'm still not great at building a tight deck.)
I wasn't sure what is rotating when.. Aren't both core sets in right now? I thought Theros would push out M13.
Anyways.
The main plan being hexproof enchant. (Specifically gladecover elf into ethereal armor etc.) And the secondary being angel token lifegain, was the original idea, but Ajani's chosen works so well with hexproof auras (since I'm running a lot of enchantments anyways) it's kind of shoved out lifegain a bit.
Triumph of ferocity isn't really a win con, but again pumps ethereal armor and a big aura voltron will usually give me the draw.
The removal works with ethereal armor and just curves well.
But I totally agree. It is all over the place and should probably have two plans main deck.
So if I just went Hex enchant main and either life gain tokens or cat tokens that would make it run better.
I'm not a huge fan of selesnya charm, but the +2/+2 and exile are probably pretty handy.
Witchstalker is 1GG so without fixing/dorks clashes with fiendslayer/ajani's chosen/Banisher Priest.
I'll do some tinkering with your advice and see what I come up with.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking my criticism so graciously.
I would like to just draw your attention to something I find confusing. I apologize in advance for my limited understanding.
You say you want hexproof as your main plan. You avoid half of the possible cards that are the limiting factor of your main plan in order to support a tertiary plan.
It's your deck. You have a unique creative contribution. This just reminds me of many of my own decks that didn't work that well.
Enjoy!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I'm not quite sure I understand. Are you asking why my deck isn't as hexproof/aura focused as it should be compared to the other "themes" it has?
Cause there's an easy answer to that, I'm pretty terrible at building focused decks!
But really, I took a couple white M14 intro packs and decided to turn it into a deck that could make Angelic Accord work, than figured the colors and curve would work well with Hexproof auras.
I guess I tend to throw stuff at a deck to see what sticks, and cut as I go.
But yes, you are completely correct. The balance of the deck is off if I want to go really aggro hexproof. Midrange hexproof might be a better bet if I want to use the lifegain, but I still have to mess around with it quite a bit to see how it'll work.
Losing the 2 drop (Invisible stalker) and Geist of St. Traft really limits the options of getting that really nice opening hand necessary to make it work like those top tier aggro hexproof decks.
I don't know if I can make this thing work tournament well, but my goal is to at least get it FNM worthy, or at least closer to it than my last deck.
But it's mostly an academic exercise till the first set of Theros is out in a month. Just trying to get better at building decks that run smoothly and do what they're supposed to do! (Not necessarily beat a top tier deck easily, but at least an honest go at a deck that's more competitive than my usual stuff.)
For probably my second "serious" deck I've tried building its still pretty jenky right now.
That's probably why I chose hexproof auras. Geist Hexproof auras is one of those top tier decks that seems to be one I understand.
And since I like the idea of it and I'm stubborn/creative enough to try and force it into W/G, here we are.
It probably won't work well.
And just to be clear, lifegain and hexproof auras are different decks. Hexproof auras aims to make one or two creatures so imposing, powerful and difficult to remove that they win the game. Life gain from those auras are a secondary benefit. For example, Unflinching Courage gives +2/2 and trample, which will win you games. The lifelink is a bonus.
Lifegain decks aim to use lifegain to either completely stall you out until they drop their wincon or use other cards like Sanguine Bond or Felidar Sovereign (in modern) to win.
So I think you need to further split your ideas of hexproof lifegain into two different decks. In general life gain is used to stabilize your deck and stop your opponents offense. If you look at B/G Rock decks, they use Thragtusk and Disciple of Bolas, not purely for life gain but to stabilize the board and gain card advantage.
I completely understand wanting to try something different than netdecking bant hexproof.
I am afraid I wasn't clear.
What makes no sense to me is to want to run W/G hexproof and not run Witchstalker. When your main plan is hexproof and you find a reason based on the third or fourth plan of your deck to avoid running 4 of the 8 hexproof cards that are available in your colors, I don't know how you can tell yourself that your main plan is hexproof.
With Witchstalker and Scout you have something like 75% chance of getting a hexproof creature in your opening hand. With just Scout, you are below 50% chance.
I suck at building focused decks, but even I know to start with Gladecover Scout and Witchstalker and don't take them out for anything if hexproof is my main plan.
But my confusion is my problem, not yours. As long as you enjoy playing your deck, that's all that matters.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Yeah I know what you're talking about. I've been contemplating splitting it into two, but original idea was to have hexproof support the lifegain. (Since it's pretty easy to throw down enchantments that give life and with Ajani's Chosen, Trostani, etc, it sort of could all work together in a big jenky ball of life gaining creature token making goodness....)
I know. Kind of a strange evolution.
I guess for one deck I'm trying to push Angelic Accord + Lifegain as the main win con (mid game) and hexproof as the early aggro/additional life gain engine.
And the other direction is straight up G/W Hexproof Auras.
Oh sorry my bad! Here's my latest list I've been toying with (solitair testing).
Totally a bit more hexproof "focused". The original mainly had to witchstalkers cut for mana fixing reasons, but now the deck is pretty green so no more Brave the Elements main deck..
8 Forest
8 Plains
2 Temple Garden
4 Selesnya Guildgate
Creatures 17
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Manaweft Sliver
4 Witchstalker
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
3 Ajani's Chosen
1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
3 Rootborn Defense
2 Selesnya Charm
Enchantments 15
4 Ethereal Armor
1 Abundant Growth
4 Gift of Orzhova
4 Unflinching Courage
1 Indestructibility
2 Angelic Accord
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
So yeah, now its a bit more hexproof and still using the extra lifegain (from trostani/tokens/lifelink) to crank out a few angels.
Or just swarm cat tokens.
Still needs work.
I really like the spot removal of the Banisher Priest, but I guess thats sideboard now.
Now I really want to run 4 Predatory Slivers... I'm hopeless.
Yeah!! Bestow looks super cool as long as we get some low to mid cost cards with it. I love that it sticks around if the thing it's attached to leaves the battlefield.
I am actually not sure about Voice. I am thinking Slyvian Caryatid Might be in the 2 CMC spot.
I think your base is right, but I would want some acceleration as many of the super strong enchantments are 3cmc. Gift of Immortality forexample is broken good on a hexproof creature.
I would probably go something like this:
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Sylvian Caryatid
4x Witchstalker
2-4x Fiendslayer Paladin
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Gift of Immortality
2x Bow of Nylea
4x Unflinching Courage/Trollhide
2-4x Gods Willing
2-4x Pacifism
4x Temple Garden
2x Nykthos
Maybe phalanx leader, but the deck needs some draw. That is what let Reid Duke's deck function so well.
Slyvian Caryatid...
Hellooooo beautiful! ;D
A hard to remove flexible mana dork (that evolves other stuff) is NICE.
I will take 8+
4 for hexproof (well maybe not since it can't attack) and 4 for my Simic deck.
the only other idea I had was possibly W/B/G...there are some very good black enchantments...however many are defensive as opposed to offensive...some good enchantments include dark favor, deviant glee, etc....also a offensive card that can be devastating is Contaminated Ground, especially against agro decks..
either way your thoughts are appreciated!
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Yeah, if you have enough dual lands, Red (or Black) White Green could work.
I would avoid double colours (RR for shiv's embrace) to make it run smooth (since our hexproof is already G and GG1).
Madcap skills plus alpha authority could be fun, but only if you have Ethereal Armor to hit hard.
It's a neat deck because your "finishers" are pretty low cost.
Good stats for a 2CMC drop and scary at 5 cmc. The deck still needs a draw engine.
He doesn't become relevant in hexproof until after verdict mana is on the board, which is basically the only thing the "indestructible" part is relevant against now that terminus is rotating. There's still a lot of wicked sweet edicts (Devour Flesh, Celestial Flare), and I'd put money on Merciless Eviction starting to see play in this block.
So, basically, he's a really, really, really slow hexproof that you can't safely suit up until turn 6 or later.
That's really not how hexproof decks are supposed to work.
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Voice
2 Witchstalker
2 Anax and Cymede
3 Elvish Mystic
4 Etheral Armor
4 Unflinching Courge
4 Madcap Skills
2 Gifts of Orzhova
3 Chained to the Rocks
22 Lands
the Voice could end up being the new watchwolf that just got spoiled since it dodges most of the burn related removal(shock/magma jet) and when you get to 5, if its not dead you get to make him hexproof/indestructible.
And yes there is celestial flare/devour flesh but those arent sued that much outside of a way to hate on the current aura deck.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Naw sorry dude, monstrous doesn't work like that. The +1/+1 counters are just a memory aid and mechanically don't 'make' the creature monstrous.
You have to pay the cost.
Maybe we'll get an enchantment or something that will make all your monstrosity trigger like Moonmist. ;D
You can make a pretty decent post-rotation g/w version right now, without even including any theros cards. Losing checklands and rancor are the biggest problems.
Fiendslayer paladin is a lot better than witchstalker. It may seem counterintuitive for me to say that because he lacks hexproof but if you play with them for a while you'll see what i mean. Red and black need to target him but they can't. Green can't target him (aside from stuff like pit fight). White and blue can target him but in that case you can just use him as a straight creature. Save the aura for later.
The deck is really going to need to have at least one quality bestow card and it will need at least one really good aura to replace rancor. Ajani is still available so that'll help.
Don't underestimate the changing atmosphere of standard either. Checklands out. Scry-lands in. Lots of signs that the format is going to shift from 3 color to 2 color and the format is looking like it'll be slower too. A slower format will allow us to suit up slower, so we need to see what else is coming before we decide that a card like fleecemane is too slow. It might be right on time in the new standard.