Played in a TCG Gold today, went 4-2 in the Swiss placing 9th. I lost a match in 3 to Mono Blue due to mill Jace and me getting stuck on 3 lands for a while. Lost a match in 2 games to MBD after mulligans and hand disruption. Gary is a house that we need to worry about. Out of the three MBD that I faced today, two of them had problems getting Gary on time, but I was living on the edge. They had plenty of time and draw to get there but got unlucky.
After today I'll be sideboarding two Slaughter Games.
AGREED!
Funny I also played in a TCG GOLD today....:);)
Anyways I went 4-1-1 Beating Dega Midrange, Esper Control, 2 G/R Monsters and losing to W/R BURN. I got into top 8 but losing to the same guy running the W/R Burn deck. WTF!? I got 7th place.
This deck was straight up fun to play. Never had this much fun playing standard in a while. Burn is a really a problem like Torrez talked about in his article.
Aetherize was amazing....totally blew out the monster decks like nothing. Its just a sick card in that match up.
Im highly considering the Saruli Gatekeepers for the burn match up and maybe Mono black.
Someone at my last FNM top-4'd using a Maze's End deck with Kiora and Courser of Kruphix. I didn't play it and don't know what else was in it, but I think the Born of the Gods additions are pretty viable.
I played this deck today at the SCG event with two Slaughter Games in the sideboard. It was absolutely useless, I never cast it once despite bringing it in a lot. The deck's biggest problem is Mutavault and Slaughter Games can't do anything about that. I was planning to use it primarily for Grey Merchant against mono-black but of course they stripped it out of my hand long before I could ever cast it. There isn't really a good answer to the card aside from keeping their board clear. I think our best bet is just loading the deck with sweepers and counters and hoping they don't all get hit by Duress/Thoughtseize/Sin Collector to keep their devotion down and counter when you can. I lost one game to a Merchant for 19 because I only had four Supreme Verdict maindeck and never drew a second one after my first one got Thoughtseized. You can't rely on a couple of Slaughter Games (or anything else for that matter) to get the job done because they run so much discard.
I played this deck today at the SCG event with two Slaughter Games in the sideboard. It was absolutely useless, I never cast it once despite bringing it in a lot. The deck's biggest problem is Mutavault and Slaughter Games can't do anything about that. I was planning to use it primarily for Grey Merchant against mono-black but of course they stripped it out of my hand long before I could ever cast it. There isn't really a good answer to the card aside from keeping their board clear. I think our best bet is just loading the deck with sweepers and counters and hoping they don't all get hit by Duress/Thoughtseize/Sin Collector to keep their devotion down and counter when you can. I lost one game to a Merchant for 19 because I only had four Supreme Verdict maindeck and never drew a second one after my first one got Thoughtseized. You can't rely on a couple of Slaughter Games (or anything else for that matter) to get the job done because they run so much discard.
If they seize the games, it happens, same as everything. It basically gives us the game against mbd. Without garys reach, I can hold them off easily enough. Even with Gary, keep them off devotion, wrath often, riot control lol. I tuned my deck for them. 4 verdict, 2 rift, 3 eviction and 4 dsphere. Without devotion, Gary doesn't matter.
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Standard: Fog Maze
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
Hey I just built this deck and I had this weird idea for a sideboard plan. I was thinking game two instead of boarding into a crackling perimeter you go into aetherlings and more kioras and kinda just turbo fog a aetherling or kiora too victory as they probably will board out of most removal. Has anyone tried this?
I played this deck today at the SCG event with two Slaughter Games in the sideboard. It was absolutely useless, I never cast it once despite bringing it in a lot. The deck's biggest problem is Mutavault and Slaughter Games can't do anything about that. I was planning to use it primarily for Grey Merchant against mono-black but of course they stripped it out of my hand long before I could ever cast it. There isn't really a good answer to the card aside from keeping their board clear. I think our best bet is just loading the deck with sweepers and counters and hoping they don't all get hit by Duress/Thoughtseize/Sin Collector to keep their devotion down and counter when you can. I lost one game to a Merchant for 19 because I only had four Supreme Verdict maindeck and never drew a second one after my first one got Thoughtseized. You can't rely on a couple of Slaughter Games (or anything else for that matter) to get the job done because they run so much discard.
If they seize the games, it happens, same as everything. It basically gives us the game against mbd. Without garys reach, I can hold them off easily enough. Even with Gary, keep them off devotion, wrath often, riot control lol. I tuned my deck for them. 4 verdict, 2 rift, 3 eviction and 4 dsphere. Without devotion, Gary doesn't matter.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Rather than bothering with Slaughter Games it's more effective to just make use of the cards we already run to minimize Gary's effect.
In regards to minimizing Gary's effectiveness: Running 4 Supreme Verdict and 2 Merciless isn't enough, but I'm on the fence about adding another Merciless.
Aetherize and Cyclonic Rift are both decent cards and would be alright in this space.
Oh I would also like to point out that Whelming Wave is totally under...whelming
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
+1 to Slaughter Games being pretty bad against Monoblack. If you want to beat Monoblack, it means you need to be fast and loose with your removal. Verdict, Eviction, D-Sphere, Wear // Tear, Cyclonic Rift, Turn // Burn for Mutavaults. Run as many answers as possible, especially since you will get a good portion of it discarded.
Ætherize is good, except when they have Gary. The best plan for the deck is redundancy in removal. No devotion.slaughter games is a nail in the coffin, a silver bullet. Why not run it? They discard it, it wasn't a eviction or fog
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Standard: Fog Maze
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
Ætherize is good, except when they have Gary. The best plan for the deck is redundancy in removal. No devotion.slaughter games is a nail in the coffin, a silver bullet. Why not run it? They discard it, it wasn't a eviction or fog
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Standard: Fog Maze
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
Ætherize is good, except when they have Gary. The best plan for the deck is redundancy in removal. No devotion.slaughter games is a nail in the coffin, a silver bullet. Why not run it? They discard it, it wasn't a eviction or fog
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Standard: Fog Maze
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
You hit on the point I couldn't get accross with Slaughter Games is that it's a wasted SB slot. Just making your deck very strong Game 1 is so so important and shoring up help with your SB.
I like the quickens so far in the main, but I may make them into turn//burn in the main instead we'll see. Still not too sure about kiora but i'll test this week hopefully.
I ran a total of 4 evictions in my list at the GP and it was perfect. You need to be wiping the board frequently vs MBD. Wear//Tear is also good vs them to knock out their connections. Its all about keeping them off devotion. Trying to get too cute with this deck detracts from its goal and causes you to lose.
That seems like a ripoff. Why would anyone play that when the next spell you cast will make your opponents draw a bunch of cards? It does not even look good for mill decks.
The reason is that it just takes up valuable SB space. The only card I could really see it brought in against is UW to name Elspeth, but that MU is so good already you don't really need it. When I played agasint mono black at the GP I really just wanted to be 1 for 1ing them all day. That may sound pretty bad but you gotta remember that while your doing that each turn your closer to winning thanks to your maze so in reality (and this deck) it's pretty good.
That seems like a ripoff. Why would anyone play that when the next spell you cast will make your opponents draw a bunch of cards? It does not even look good for mill decks.
tested slaughter games and really it does nothing much but taking big cards out of a control deck (which we already have a high chance against)
Definitely happy to have more slots for more sweepers or maybe even some counterspells.
On monoblack, we dont really need slaughter games to win.. the problem is we need to have better card advantage against those pesky thoughtseize hands.. sadly the only early draw we have is divination.
I've tried revoke existence and it's really good to get rid of pesky needles and gods (mogis is a real pain in the ass) but i'm wondering whether unravel the aether is better since it's instant? They shuffle the card back in to the deck though so that's a downside
On Slaughter Games: I'm a fan. It has allowed me to rip Gary out of a hand and from the top of the deck the turn before they could cast it. You can't keep MBD of a devotion count forever and once Gary is gone, you can fog your way to victory. With Gary available, they can still get around fog effects.
I like it in my sideboard, and it has been effective for me. The argument that is can be seized is mute. Supreme Verdict can be seized, is that a reason not to play the card? You can't base a card choice on the fact that you can be forced to discard it.
The argument isn't that it's bad because it can be Thoughtseized. The problem is if your deck isn't prepared to deal with mono-black without it then you're going to lose every game one and every post-sideboard time it does get hit by Thoughtseize or Duress, and if your deck is already well prepared (which most of ours are given the amount of sweepers this deck typically runs) then there isn't really any need to waste sideboard slots on it. The card is deceivingly narrow. It doesn't do anything at all against our worst matchup, fast aggro decks, and only really shines against control which is already our best matchup. I would much prefer to run either more versatile answers or specific answers to our really bad matchups.
Also keep in mind mono-black can just strip a sweeper/Detention Sphere or two then drop a turn four Desecration Demon and kill you. Slaughter Games is just about the last card you want to have boarded in in that very common situation.
I was always a fan of this deck, but with thoughtseize and game 2-boarded in duresses, this deck just can't survive too well. If only there was a 1 cmc counter spell that countered a spell if it target's your hand, oh if only
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Standard: UB Control
Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
Our deck can win against MBD as is, but I wouldn't call it a favorable match-up. So far, I have had positive experiences with the Slaughter Games, stealing me games I might not have won otherwise, so my viewpoint is different.
I agree that Slaughter Games does not do anything in aggro/burn match-ups, and would never use it in those situations. With 15 slots available, I feel you can afford to devote some of them to Slaughter Games, even if they are narrow. Sideboards can differ depending on your local meta, and for me the Slaughter Games fit in nicely, but I could see that being different if I saw more RDW or Boros show up. At this time, it does work.
futility, you mentioned you devote more slots to fast aggro. What does your sideboard look like to improve those match-ups?
So I've got a "special" tournament coming up (all the gaming shops in this city are pitting their top 10 players of the month for prizes and a sweet custom playmat) and I feel like running this deck. I have been playing it off and on since the land was printed but this is the first time I've put some serious time in construction and research. I have no idea what the meta game is going to be like at all but I expect U/W/x control (not worried, played that match-up alot when this deck was worse) and MBD. I'm hoping by playing this I come out of left field and take everyone by surprise but eh, who knows.
Here's the decklist I'm thinking of taking:
Pretty stock list. I haven't gotten to test wave vs eviction both seem to have their positives (I like wave against aggro and packrat, but eviction seems great for UW/MBD).
I really don't want to give up the perimeter's MB. I've won games off 2-3 spells with that card against G/R monsters/ramp (2 fogs and the enchantment). I also don't like the idea of only have 4 win con's. I'm willing to move them SB though if it can help against MBD by replacing them with a counter or hand disruption.
I REALLY like pithing needle right now. It shuts down a lot of stuff being played right now. Yes there is a lot of enchantment and artifact hate due to gods but I think its still worth running (plus I *might* face the mirror and it screws them over esp if they don't bring in their perimeters).
Should I bite the bullet and just go 3 evicts and 0 waves? What about replacing the empty slots with Essence Scatter and/or Thoughtsieze? Or have all these questions been answered pre-page 36? Find out next time on dragon ball z....errr I mean any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
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"We cannot join. We cannot rest. Our lives, our souls, endure. We have been returned."
Standard RBUGrixis Tutelage BR Devoid Beatdown Modern RAffinity B 8 Rack Legacy 0 Dredge EDH RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
I've been tinkering with Steam Augury as instant speed card drawing is what Maze's End desperately needs. It hits and misses, but is one of the best draw spells so far for me. Plus I think it's an underrated card.
Now, to get a playset of Kiora, the Crashing Wave. Without her, I don't think this deck's as playable as it should be.
Edit: and Note, I LOVE my Maze's End deck... I want to tweak it to play it Next month for the local PTQ. I still think one of the most powerful methods will be a turbo fog/Prophet of Kruphix-Crackling Perimeter
I've been tinkering with Steam Augury as instant speed card drawing is what Maze's End desperately needs. It hits and misses, but is one of the best draw spells so far for me. Plus I think it's an underrated card.
Now, to get a playset of Kiora, the Crashing Wave. Without her, I don't think this deck's as playable as it should be.
Edit: and Note, I LOVE my Maze's End deck... I want to tweak it to play it Next month for the local PTQ. I still think one of the most powerful methods will be a turbo fog/Prophet of Kruphix-Crackling Perimeter
I have been playing Turbo Fog Maze's End for a little while now and Kiora is awkward in the mana curve of the deck. Around turn 5 (Generally that turn you have 4 untapped lands) you are in a position where you need to play a Wrath of God like effect. After that point the deck starts tapping 4 lands to search out a gate while still needing to keep mana open for Fogs. If Kiora did resolve she basically becomes a 4cmc Explore that you might get to use twice. She can lock down a single creature which is ok for this deck, but he ultimate is just a win more. She could Ultimate on turn 8 and let you make one maybe two 9/9 before you win on turn 10. This is a deck that makes cards like Urban Evolutions bunch up in your hands and Kiora is only worse.
Not trying to putting anyone down, but this isn't Bant Walkers and I feel a lot of people see her -1 Explore and just wants to shove it into this build. I feel that is the wrong decision.
AGREED!
Funny I also played in a TCG GOLD today....:);)
Anyways I went 4-1-1 Beating Dega Midrange, Esper Control, 2 G/R Monsters and losing to W/R BURN. I got into top 8 but losing to the same guy running the W/R Burn deck. WTF!? I got 7th place.
Here is my deck list for reference...
4 Detention Sphere
4 Fog
4 Druid’s Deliverance
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Riot Control
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 AEtherize
2 Quicken
4 Supreme Verdict
1 Merciless Eviction
2 Urban Evolution
3 Divination
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
3 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Maze’s end
2 Unravel the Aether
3 Turn // Burn
2 Gainsay
1 Pithing Needle
2 Negate
1 Elixir of Immortality
This deck was straight up fun to play. Never had this much fun playing standard in a while. Burn is a really a problem like Torrez talked about in his article.
Aetherize was amazing....totally blew out the monster decks like nothing. Its just a sick card in that match up.
Im highly considering the Saruli Gatekeepers for the burn match up and maybe Mono black.
H/W List http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=112656
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
If they seize the games, it happens, same as everything. It basically gives us the game against mbd. Without garys reach, I can hold them off easily enough. Even with Gary, keep them off devotion, wrath often, riot control lol. I tuned my deck for them. 4 verdict, 2 rift, 3 eviction and 4 dsphere. Without devotion, Gary doesn't matter.
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Rather than bothering with Slaughter Games it's more effective to just make use of the cards we already run to minimize Gary's effect.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
Aetherize and Cyclonic Rift are both decent cards and would be alright in this space.
Oh I would also like to point out that Whelming Wave is totally under...whelming
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
I like the quickens so far in the main, but I may make them into turn//burn in the main instead we'll see. Still not too sure about kiora but i'll test this week hopefully.
I ran a total of 4 evictions in my list at the GP and it was perfect. You need to be wiping the board frequently vs MBD. Wear//Tear is also good vs them to knock out their connections. Its all about keeping them off devotion. Trying to get too cute with this deck detracts from its goal and causes you to lose.
Standard - :symb::symg: Aggro
Modern -:symr::symu: - Storm / :symb::symg::symr: - Dredgevine / :symw::symu: - Eggs / :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: - Doman Zoo / - Soul Sisters
Legacy - :symr::symw::symg: - Zoo / :symr::symg: - Belcher
On the Standstill Promo
I'm still not budging on my 61 MD lol.
Standard - :symb::symg: Aggro
Modern -:symr::symu: - Storm / :symb::symg::symr: - Dredgevine / :symw::symu: - Eggs / :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: - Doman Zoo / - Soul Sisters
Legacy - :symr::symw::symg: - Zoo / :symr::symg: - Belcher
On the Standstill Promo
Definitely happy to have more slots for more sweepers or maybe even some counterspells.
On monoblack, we dont really need slaughter games to win.. the problem is we need to have better card advantage against those pesky thoughtseize hands.. sadly the only early draw we have is divination.
I've tried revoke existence and it's really good to get rid of pesky needles and gods (mogis is a real pain in the ass) but i'm wondering whether unravel the aether is better since it's instant? They shuffle the card back in to the deck though so that's a downside
Haven't been able to play standard these few days due to the lunar new year. Will be back soon to test the mettle
I like it in my sideboard, and it has been effective for me. The argument that is can be seized is mute. Supreme Verdict can be seized, is that a reason not to play the card? You can't base a card choice on the fact that you can be forced to discard it.
Also keep in mind mono-black can just strip a sweeper/Detention Sphere or two then drop a turn four Desecration Demon and kill you. Slaughter Games is just about the last card you want to have boarded in in that very common situation.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
RIP Jimmy foREVer
I agree that Slaughter Games does not do anything in aggro/burn match-ups, and would never use it in those situations. With 15 slots available, I feel you can afford to devote some of them to Slaughter Games, even if they are narrow. Sideboards can differ depending on your local meta, and for me the Slaughter Games fit in nicely, but I could see that being different if I saw more RDW or Boros show up. At this time, it does work.
futility, you mentioned you devote more slots to fast aggro. What does your sideboard look like to improve those match-ups?
Here's the decklist I'm thinking of taking:
4 Maze's End
3 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
4 Fog
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Riot Control
Enchantment 6:
4 Detention Sphere
2 Crackling Perimeter
Planeswalker 2:
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Sorcery 9:
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Whelming Wave
2 Urban Evolution
3 Revoke Existence
3 Turn // Burn
2 Negate
2 Bow of Nylea
2 Pithing Needle
2 Crackling Perimeter
1 Merciless Eviction
Pretty stock list. I haven't gotten to test wave vs eviction both seem to have their positives (I like wave against aggro and packrat, but eviction seems great for UW/MBD).
I really don't want to give up the perimeter's MB. I've won games off 2-3 spells with that card against G/R monsters/ramp (2 fogs and the enchantment). I also don't like the idea of only have 4 win con's. I'm willing to move them SB though if it can help against MBD by replacing them with a counter or hand disruption.
I REALLY like pithing needle right now. It shuts down a lot of stuff being played right now. Yes there is a lot of enchantment and artifact hate due to gods but I think its still worth running (plus I *might* face the mirror and it screws them over esp if they don't bring in their perimeters).
Should I bite the bullet and just go 3 evicts and 0 waves? What about replacing the empty slots with Essence Scatter and/or Thoughtsieze? Or have all these questions been answered pre-page 36? Find out next time on dragon ball z....errr I mean any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
Now, to get a playset of Kiora, the Crashing Wave. Without her, I don't think this deck's as playable as it should be.
Edit: and Note, I LOVE my Maze's End deck... I want to tweak it to play it Next month for the local PTQ. I still think one of the most powerful methods will be a turbo fog/Prophet of Kruphix-Crackling Perimeter
I have been playing Turbo Fog Maze's End for a little while now and Kiora is awkward in the mana curve of the deck. Around turn 5 (Generally that turn you have 4 untapped lands) you are in a position where you need to play a Wrath of God like effect. After that point the deck starts tapping 4 lands to search out a gate while still needing to keep mana open for Fogs. If Kiora did resolve she basically becomes a 4cmc Explore that you might get to use twice. She can lock down a single creature which is ok for this deck, but he ultimate is just a win more. She could Ultimate on turn 8 and let you make one maybe two 9/9 before you win on turn 10. This is a deck that makes cards like Urban Evolutions bunch up in your hands and Kiora is only worse.
Not trying to putting anyone down, but this isn't Bant Walkers and I feel a lot of people see her -1 Explore and just wants to shove it into this build. I feel that is the wrong decision.