Does this list alone rule out the deck being played? I can't see any of those cards being less popular.
I wouldn't necessarily say that.
Thoughtseize - will see play in a lot of decks, And is the most prevalent effect that's a thorn in the side, but that's for a lot of decks.
No good solution to this, just card draw/deal with it, wasting a counterspell seems like a bad idea usually.
Pithing Needle - another card that will see a lot of
sideboard play, but we have have little to worry about in
most maindecks, an alternate win con in the board assisits with this,
and alot of our enchantment hate cards double as artifact removal if need
be.
Rakdos's Return - Like any control deck this ruins us.
If we think this card will see a lot more play it makes even more sense
for maindeck Swang Song or Negate our only defense is to counter it unless someone else has a better defense?
Solution cards: Negate Swan Song
Voice of Resurgence - this guy wasn't too much of an issue in the past for me as Fog/Riot Control would keep me alive until I hit a Terminus which blanked him. He's a good
argument for running Merciless Eviction or Planar Cleansing, along with that indestructible lion
if W/G is big we need a game plan for Voice or it will run us over.
Solution cards: Essence Scatter stop it before it's a problem Glare of Heresy pretty effective at taking care of him.
all in all the cards that hurt this deck are easily dealt with or mitigated.
we just need to be prepared adn have a game plan when these type of cards effect us.
it's looking to me like Hero's Downfall, AND Essence Scatter might be necessary cards in ther board/main.
ive been liking mainboard warleader's helix to deal with walkers g1 as well as sided hate, and siding selesnya charm for obzedat, ruric, sire, dracogenius, and theros gods.
and i like the idea of bow. ima test it over elixir.
I like Into the Wilds and I will try it, but having so many counter mainboard I think it's just too much.
1)We should care about fogging, and countering could not leave us the necessary mana to do that.
2)We need slots.
Swan Song is FANTASTIC and I agree with that, but I could find a maximum of 2 slots in the MB, and maybe 1 or 2 in the SB. Also, I used to run 2 Rapid Hybridization MB, but nobody called that... It's like a Swan Song as remouval: can destroy everything and costs 1.
The issue though is there are two creatures that absolutely cannot land vs. us and they are Sire of Insanity and Ruric Thar the Unbound. Sire is espeically dangerous as if he lands it is an auto loss for this deck. Ruric isn't an auto loss but it is almost as deadly due to fogging casting you 6 life a turn and that's not really fogging anymore.
I also just watched a video BBM and CVM on Starcity playing R/G vs. a new Jund build and BBM was playing Ruric main. Those two cards will see play now that the faster cards from Innistrad block are gone.
Only 4 counters isn't much compared to the 12-16 fogs the deck will run, but IMO, you will need something to stop two creatures and Swan Song / Negate don't do it.
I've been running a full 7 sweepers main. I find them generally more effective than fogs (although I run quite a few of those as well). I play 4 Supreme Verdict and 3 Merciless Eviction main. The Evictions have been particularly good. They deal with pesky anything.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
hi guys what do you think about this list? my friend & i were testing this deck. sorry for no more information, but i'm in a hurry, later in the night i put more information about our testing.
I still think my sideboard needs work, but I think this is a good start.
I do think Read the Bones is an interesting card in this deck, but I only think it's good against the control matchup. In my testing, fast aggro decks leave you very little life to work with. I started with 2 Read the Bones and 2 Into the Wilds. I really like Into the Wilds, but I always wanted it to be something else. In this case, I put in the Gatekeepers for it, and I've never regretted it.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
That's my list so far. I didn't test it in a tournament so far for obvious reasons. I've made some tests against pre-rotation standard decks. I was able to beat Kibler aggro (which surprised me because the undying creatures are really tough to deal with) and bant aggro. This list is working for me so far. I would like to add Merciless Eviction, but I really don't see any slots for it. I want to keep playing Into the Wilds because this card is a powerful engine in this deck. You filter your draws, ramp beyond anything and having 2 or more Into the Wilds is pretty much the win because you will draw business in most of the cases.
The one-of Read the Bones may look a little bit random. I guess it's the best draw spell around, and although it costs us life, this spell will win us more games than it will cost us. I will most likely add a second one as soon as I get one. I would like to play more, but lifeloss IS an issue for this deck, so two copies should be the right amount. If you play a playset of a card, you should ask yourself whether you'd want to cast all the four copies, and for this card, the answer is "No".
My sideboard contains additional win options to make sideboarding more difficult for our opponents. I think about adding Fade into Antiquity. I have Detention Spheres I can also use against Pithing Needle, Burning Earth etc., but I feel like everyone will be playing solutions for enchantments, so it might be better not to rely on an enchantment.
How does your deck deal with Ruric Thar, the Unbowed? Once he's in play, you can no longer fog each turn without taking 6? You can still cast Supreme Verdict but it's going to hurt and you better have one in hand or it's game.
If I see Ruric become a problem, I will definitely add some Essence Scatters to my sideboard. Or I just slaughtergame him. Well, if R/G ramps into Ruric, we're in a pretty bad spot, but this also applies to any other creature-light deck.
Well from what I saw on SCG's videos Ruric is definitely being tested.
Ruric Thar will see play. With my build at least, the lifegain from the Gatekeepers and Riot Controls usually put me in a position where I can cast at least one spell w/o fear of dying immediately afterwards. But I do have Essence Scatters in the board to deal with Ruric Thars and Fanatic of Mogis and the like.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
So I was thinking about a version of the deck that draws off of the powerful
esper cards, mainly the Planeswalkers as a different means of attack, as well as a distraction/source of pseudolife.
I was also thinking if we were to take the Maze's End/Guildgate Package and bring it to it's bare minimum we can just play the deck like a control deck that sometimes wins with Walkers, but has inevitability in it's lands.I decided to keep the Fog elements as they help protect walkers, and are good against the red decks. Supreme Verdict is really good right now.And Jace, Architect of Thought fogs, or digs for us. With the mana base more productive and quicker, I feel like its easier to take advantage of Sphinx's Revelation. Ashiok is an amazing walker that hasn't gotten too much hype, but he will help shore up our games against the control decks as he MUST be dealt with or it ruins them.
I'm really anticipating a lot of control the first few weeks as it's a popular deck choice in an aggro heavy format, doesn't mean the control decks will be well tuned, or very good but they'll be there with aggressive/big threats.. I'm thinking tapout control will be the most likely to show up. Do you guys think a version like this could have some legs?
I understand Mnemonic Wall, but I think he'd better serve you as another Fog or a Sweeper... mana is tight with a mostly Guildgate manabase. Also some early card draw couldn't hurt, maybe Divination? it's not terrible, or even Azorius Charm as it cantrips and removes big attackers. I dislike the singleton Syncopate as we will rarely be able to outmana our opponents because in the early turns when Syncopate really shines, we have our lands tapped.
"The last brew for today is by reader demand. Maze's End got very few new options, but it looks like the format has become a little bit weaker, so the deck may become good enough to see play. Sadly, the deck also had a huge loss in Snapcaster Mage. This loss makes Turbo Fog Maze's End worse than a board-control version; you need to deal with opposing threats permanently rather than risk losing to drawing lands.
New cards of choice are Magma Jet; Thassa, God of the Sea; and Hero's Downfall. The last one may as well be Dreadbore, while the scry on the other two is very important for a deck with such a fragile mana base. Magma Jet is much worse against Voice of Resurgence than Pillar of Flame was, but it's still super effective against early aggression and is even better with the low Gate mana base I'm proposing.
This list contains 61 cards simply because I could not resist putting a Minotaur in the Maze. Whenever you, Theseus, want to use this maze, feel free to kill the monster before.
There are just fourteen Gates here, and I believe it's a better decision than having two copies of each one. There is no Acidic Slime in the format, Encroaching Wastes doesn't see play, Thoughtseize can't hit lands, and the only threat to our win condition is Ember Swallower. Yes, the opponent's speed is a much more real threat than a 4/5 red monster, but shock lands and basics allow a much better early game and give you more time to draw everything needed in the late game. Realistically, you should have three or four Gates when you start winning the game with either Maze's End or Crackling Perimeter. Six or seven turns is a lot, but scry, card draw, and Gatecreeper Vine could shorten it.
Note that Frostburn Weird is in the sideboard. I've already said enough about quality of this card, but I want to note that it could be Soldier of the Pantheon in other configurations of the deck. Soldier is not only a great Savannah Lions but is also a very efficient blocker. This particular list contains very few white-producing lands since it's mostly RUG, but Soldier could be exactly what you want for a Bant or U/W/R version."
I understand Mnemonic Wall, but I think he'd better serve you as another Fog or a Sweeper... mana is tight with a mostly Guildgate manabase. Also some early card draw couldn't hurt, maybe Divination? it's not terrible, or even Azorius Charm as it cantrips and removes big attackers. I dislike the singleton Syncopate as we will rarely be able to outmana our opponents because in the early turns when Syncopate really shines, we have our lands tapped.
Ah yes forgot all about Azorious Charm, edited it up a bit. Thanks.
I'm also wondering if I should just play 1 of each gate or maybe just trim down 1 of a couple gates for some basics or shocks so that I can be more reactive. Also considering Read the Bones.
"The last brew for today is by reader demand. Maze's End got very few new options, but it looks like the format has become a little bit weaker, so the deck may become good enough to see play. Sadly, the deck also had a huge loss in Snapcaster Mage. This loss makes Turbo Fog Maze's End worse than a board-control version; you need to deal with opposing threats permanently rather than risk losing to drawing lands.
New cards of choice are Magma Jet; Thassa, God of the Sea; and Hero's Downfall. The last one may as well be Dreadbore, while the scry on the other two is very important for a deck with such a fragile mana base. Magma Jet is much worse against Voice of Resurgence than Pillar of Flame was, but it's still super effective against early aggression and is even better with the low Gate mana base I'm proposing.
This list contains 61 cards simply because I could not resist putting a Minotaur in the Maze. Whenever you, Theseus, want to use this maze, feel free to kill the monster before.
There are just fourteen Gates here, and I believe it's a better decision than having two copies of each one. There is no Acidic Slime in the format, Encroaching Wastes doesn't see play, Thoughtseize can't hit lands, and the only threat to our win condition is Ember Swallower. Yes, the opponent's speed is a much more real threat than a 4/5 red monster, but shock lands and basics allow a much better early game and give you more time to draw everything needed in the late game. Realistically, you should have three or four Gates when you start winning the game with either Maze's End or Crackling Perimeter. Six or seven turns is a lot, but scry, card draw, and Gatecreeper Vine could shorten it.
Note that Frostburn Weird is in the sideboard. I've already said enough about quality of this card, but I want to note that it could be Soldier of the Pantheon in other configurations of the deck. Soldier is not only a great Savannah Lions but is also a very efficient blocker. This particular list contains very few white-producing lands since it's mostly RUG, but Soldier could be exactly what you want for a Bant or U/W/R version."
I like his take on the deck, however I feel like not playing 4 Supreme Verdict is a mistake.
Crackling Perimter is only marginally good, and should only be played in the board, not as a two of maindeck.
Id prolly find a card to cut to make it 60. Im looking at the minotaur which is cute but just a liability. Sideboard needs to be tightened up too.
Detention Sphere is a catch-all solution. It's a good answer for planeswalkers, Burning Earth, and any big creatures or gods. I expect a lot of aggression, but it still slows them down.
Cyclonic Rift is in just because it's a cheap bounce early on, that acts as a board wipe late game. It's like Far/Away, but not as disappointing against a full board. It also deals with a full board of Voice, which happens a bit too much. They keep getting tokens, because you keep fogging them, and it just gets out of hand. This is easily replaced with Verdict, but only if I get some.
I love Urban Evolution in the deck. It draws for days, and it deals with having lands stuck in the hand, which is one of the worse situations. Every turn Maze's End isn't being activated is another chance you'll draw a land instead of protection.
Sideboard needs some work, but I am stuck with what I have right now.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
What we really need now is some good testing results against some likely decks from the field. I'll try my best on Thursday to get some testing sessions in with either Valeriys version, or a few of my test versions.
I don't think we can afford to run only one copy of gates, with all the Rakdos Return that are bound to be around in the opening weeks, we don't want to lose simply because we can't get the gate back.
Pithing Needle turns off Maze's End and eliminates that win condition, right? Probably not the only such card, but it is the one that comes to mind at the moment. Do you have an answer for such a card in your SB, or just ignoring it because so few will be playing it (in their SB)?
Edit: I guess I see Detention Sphere is the SB of some lists. Are you automatically bringing this in for game 2, or are you waiting until you see Pithing Needle and only bringing it in after that?
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
"The last brew for today is by reader demand. Maze's End got very few new options, but it looks like the format has become a little bit weaker, so the deck may become good enough to see play. Sadly, the deck also had a huge loss in Snapcaster Mage. This loss makes Turbo Fog Maze's End worse than a board-control version; you need to deal with opposing threats permanently rather than risk losing to drawing lands.
New cards of choice are Magma Jet; Thassa, God of the Sea; and Hero's Downfall. The last one may as well be Dreadbore, while the scry on the other two is very important for a deck with such a fragile mana base. Magma Jet is much worse against Voice of Resurgence than Pillar of Flame was, but it's still super effective against early aggression and is even better with the low Gate mana base I'm proposing.
This list contains 61 cards simply because I could not resist putting a Minotaur in the Maze. Whenever you, Theseus, want to use this maze, feel free to kill the monster before.
There are just fourteen Gates here, and I believe it's a better decision than having two copies of each one. There is no Acidic Slime in the format, Encroaching Wastes doesn't see play, Thoughtseize can't hit lands, and the only threat to our win condition is Ember Swallower. Yes, the opponent's speed is a much more real threat than a 4/5 red monster, but shock lands and basics allow a much better early game and give you more time to draw everything needed in the late game. Realistically, you should have three or four Gates when you start winning the game with either Maze's End or Crackling Perimeter. Six or seven turns is a lot, but scry, card draw, and Gatecreeper Vine could shorten it.
Note that Frostburn Weird is in the sideboard. I've already said enough about quality of this card, but I want to note that it could be Soldier of the Pantheon in other configurations of the deck. Soldier is not only a great Savannah Lions but is also a very efficient blocker. This particular list contains very few white-producing lands since it's mostly RUG, but Soldier could be exactly what you want for a Bant or U/W/R version."
I absolutely do NOT like this version. Currently I'm playing with 15 Fog effects, 4 Wrath effects and 3 card drawing effects with Sphinx's.
Goldfishing a bit last night, I was virtually never without a fog effect or wrath so I don't really know what the deal is in his thinking that because Snapcaster is no longer in standard to re-use fog effects the deck is bad.
There are 4 different cheap fog effects currently in standard. With Supreme Verdict you can run a total of 16 fog/4 wrath for a total of 20 cards that blunt your opponents attack phase.
Also you don't have to fog every turn depending on the deck. Turns 2-3 many times won't require a fog effect as well as any turn after a Verdict.
I think his version of the deck is much more susceptible to being run over or screwed over by discard.
Pithing Needle turns off Maze's End and eliminates that win condition, right? Probably not the only such card, but it is the one that comes to mind at the moment. Do you have an answer for such a card in your SB, or just ignoring it because so few will be playing it (in their SB)?
Edit: I guess I see Detention Sphere is the SB of some lists. Are you automatically bringing this in for game 2, or are you waiting until you see Pithing Needle and only bringing it in after that?
Detention Spheres aren't the only card we have to get rid of them. Personally, I play Merciless Evictions mainboard (which can deal with Pithing Needles and just about anything else that worries you), as well as Cyclonic Rifts. Just bounce the Needle the turn you can win, and you're golden. And I have Negates and Fade into Antiquities in the sideboard to further deal with Needles. Honestly, I'm more afraid of a well-timed Rakdos's Return or Dispel than a Needle.
If a deck is known or expected to have Needles, I'll probably side in some removal for it. But again, I'm not too worried about them.
I was wondering why Omenspeaker dissapeared from all of your lists. Has anyone actually testet her on the field?
I have not yet, and I think I need to play against some faster red decks before I consider Omenspeaker to be the right fit for this deck. If it's able to block consistently and more than just once, then I'll give it more of a chance. Right now, I prefer Gatecreeper Vine, but that's only because I feel the color fixing it gets me is very important, especially towards the goal of a t4 Supreme Verdict or a t6 Merciless Eviction.
As a further thought, I think I'm going to get rid of my 1-of Defend the Hearth and put in an Archaeomancer. Getting back a wrath or a utility spell from the sideboard is pretty good here. Thoughts?
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(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
@Purp - how was snapcaster mage a huge loss? playing augur or more fogs was better, and considering maze's end is mainly for budget players... no snapcaster
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Serves same two purposes, but is reusable. Slightly better against Obzedat.
I wouldn't necessarily say that.
Thoughtseize - will see play in a lot of decks, And is the most prevalent effect that's a thorn in the side, but that's for a lot of decks.
No good solution to this, just card draw/deal with it, wasting a counterspell seems like a bad idea usually.
Sire of Insanity - needs a deck to be good, as the format is still new we're not sure what Jund, or R/B/x or Reanimator's places are in the new format if any
Solution cards include:
Hero's Downfall
Warleader's Helix
Dark Betrayal
Renounce the Guilds?
Essence Scatter
Cylconic Rift
Burning Earth might not be as much of a player in the new standard as the previous one as there is some anticipation of there being less 3 color all nonbasic manabases as there were before. we mainly just got splash hated by this because of Esper/Junk/Naya/Jund/America in the last Standard.
Solution cards include:
Negate
Fade into Antiquity
Naturalize
Swan Song
Cylconic Rift
Sundering Growth
Ray of Dissolution
Pithing Needle - another card that will see a lot of
sideboard play, but we have have little to worry about in
most maindecks, an alternate win con in the board assisits with this,
and alot of our enchantment hate cards double as artifact removal if need
be.
Rakdos's Return - Like any control deck this ruins us.
If we think this card will see a lot more play it makes even more sense
for maindeck Swang Song or Negate our only defense is to counter it unless someone else has a better defense?
Solution cards:
Negate
Swan Song
Voice of Resurgence - this guy wasn't too much of an issue in the past for me as
Fog/Riot Control would keep me alive until I hit a Terminus which blanked him. He's a good
argument for running Merciless Eviction or Planar Cleansing, along with that indestructible lion
if W/G is big we need a game plan for Voice or it will run us over.
Solution cards:
Essence Scatter stop it before it's a problem
Glare of Heresy pretty effective at taking care of him.
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed - this guy jsut needs to be killed/countered immediately.
Solution cards:
Doom Blade
Essence Scatte
Hero's Downfall
Obzedat, Ghost Council - I still haven't figured out a good solution for dealingwith this guy other than the standard kill/counter
Solution cards:
Essence Scatter
Hero's Downfall
all in all the cards that hurt this deck are easily dealt with or mitigated.
we just need to be prepared adn have a game plan when these type of cards effect us.
it's looking to me like Hero's Downfall, AND Essence Scatter might be necessary cards in ther board/main.
and i like the idea of bow. ima test it over elixir.
posted my list here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=540563
has anyone tried into the wilds + prognostic sphinx?
Either 4 Dissolve or 3 Dissolve and 1 Swan Song with 2-3 more Swant Song in the board.
The issue though is there are two creatures that absolutely cannot land vs. us and they are Sire of Insanity and Ruric Thar the Unbound. Sire is espeically dangerous as if he lands it is an auto loss for this deck. Ruric isn't an auto loss but it is almost as deadly due to fogging casting you 6 life a turn and that's not really fogging anymore.
I also just watched a video BBM and CVM on Starcity playing R/G vs. a new Jund build and BBM was playing Ruric main. Those two cards will see play now that the faster cards from Innistrad block are gone.
Only 4 counters isn't much compared to the 12-16 fogs the deck will run, but IMO, you will need something to stop two creatures and Swan Song / Negate don't do it.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Riot Control
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Urban Evolution
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Bow of Nylea
2 Swan Song
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Merciless Eviction
1 AEtherize
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Fog
1 Defend the Hearth
4 Gatecreeper Vine
2 Saruli Gatekeeper
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Merciless Eviction
4 Urban Evolution
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
3 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Gruul Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Pithing Needle
1 Saruli Gatekeeper
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Fade into Antiquity
2 Essence Scatter
1 Swan Song
2 Slaughter Games
1 Jace, Memory Adept
3 Crackling Perimeter
I still think my sideboard needs work, but I think this is a good start.
I do think Read the Bones is an interesting card in this deck, but I only think it's good against the control matchup. In my testing, fast aggro decks leave you very little life to work with. I started with 2 Read the Bones and 2 Into the Wilds. I really like Into the Wilds, but I always wanted it to be something else. In this case, I put in the Gatekeepers for it, and I've never regretted it.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
How does your deck deal with Ruric Thar, the Unbowed? Once he's in play, you can no longer fog each turn without taking 6? You can still cast Supreme Verdict but it's going to hurt and you better have one in hand or it's game.
Well from what I saw on SCG's videos Ruric is definitely being tested.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
How is this list?
4 Fog
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Riot Control
3 Druid's Deliverance
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Urban Evolution
2 Swan Song
2 Azorious Charm
1 Crackling Perimeter
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Merciless Eviction
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Azorious Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
1 Island
1 Plains
3 Essence Scatter
2 Saruli Gatekeeper
2 Crackling Perimeter
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Slaughter Games
2 Wear//Tear
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Detention Sphere
AniList: http://anilist.co/animelist/650/Matas
esper cards, mainly the Planeswalkers as a different means of attack, as well as a distraction/source of pseudolife.
I was also thinking if we were to take the Maze's End/Guildgate Package and bring it to it's bare minimum we can just play the deck like a control deck that sometimes wins with Walkers, but has inevitability in it's lands.I decided to keep the Fog elements as they help protect walkers, and are good against the red decks. Supreme Verdict is really good right now.And Jace, Architect of Thought fogs, or digs for us. With the mana base more productive and quicker, I feel like its easier to take advantage of Sphinx's Revelation. Ashiok is an amazing walker that hasn't gotten too much hype, but he will help shore up our games against the control decks as he MUST be dealt with or it ruins them.
I'm really anticipating a lot of control the first few weeks as it's a popular deck choice in an aggro heavy format, doesn't mean the control decks will be well tuned, or very good but they'll be there with aggressive/big threats.. I'm thinking tapout control will be the most likely to show up. Do you guys think a version like this could have some legs?
this is a first draft of course...
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Riot Control
4 Fog
3 Cyclonic Rift
3 Druid's Deliverance
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Swan Song
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Merciless Eviction
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Temple Garden
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Plains
3 Maze's End
1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Boros Guildgate
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Gruul Guildgate
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Simic Guildgate
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Dimir Guildgate
3 Essence Scatter
2 Pithing Needle
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Swan Song
2 Naturalize
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Fade into Antiquity
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
I understand Mnemonic Wall, but I think he'd better serve you as another Fog or a Sweeper... mana is tight with a mostly Guildgate manabase. Also some early card draw couldn't hurt, maybe Divination? it's not terrible, or even Azorius Charm as it cantrips and removes big attackers. I dislike the singleton Syncopate as we will rarely be able to outmana our opponents because in the early turns when Syncopate really shines, we have our lands tapped.
3 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Saruli Gatekeepers
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Azorius Guildgate
1 Blood Crypt
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Breeding Pool
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
1 Izzet Guildgate
4 Maze's End
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Crackling Perimeter
4 Far
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Magma Jet
2 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Urban Evolution
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 Frostburn Weird
3 Sin Collector
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Ral Zarek
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Slaughter Games
"The last brew for today is by reader demand. Maze's End got very few new options, but it looks like the format has become a little bit weaker, so the deck may become good enough to see play. Sadly, the deck also had a huge loss in Snapcaster Mage. This loss makes Turbo Fog Maze's End worse than a board-control version; you need to deal with opposing threats permanently rather than risk losing to drawing lands.
New cards of choice are Magma Jet; Thassa, God of the Sea; and Hero's Downfall. The last one may as well be Dreadbore, while the scry on the other two is very important for a deck with such a fragile mana base. Magma Jet is much worse against Voice of Resurgence than Pillar of Flame was, but it's still super effective against early aggression and is even better with the low Gate mana base I'm proposing.
This list contains 61 cards simply because I could not resist putting a Minotaur in the Maze. Whenever you, Theseus, want to use this maze, feel free to kill the monster before.
There are just fourteen Gates here, and I believe it's a better decision than having two copies of each one. There is no Acidic Slime in the format, Encroaching Wastes doesn't see play, Thoughtseize can't hit lands, and the only threat to our win condition is Ember Swallower. Yes, the opponent's speed is a much more real threat than a 4/5 red monster, but shock lands and basics allow a much better early game and give you more time to draw everything needed in the late game. Realistically, you should have three or four Gates when you start winning the game with either Maze's End or Crackling Perimeter. Six or seven turns is a lot, but scry, card draw, and Gatecreeper Vine could shorten it.
Note that Frostburn Weird is in the sideboard. I've already said enough about quality of this card, but I want to note that it could be Soldier of the Pantheon in other configurations of the deck. Soldier is not only a great Savannah Lions but is also a very efficient blocker. This particular list contains very few white-producing lands since it's mostly RUG, but Soldier could be exactly what you want for a Bant or U/W/R version."
Ah yes forgot all about Azorious Charm, edited it up a bit. Thanks.
I'm also wondering if I should just play 1 of each gate or maybe just trim down 1 of a couple gates for some basics or shocks so that I can be more reactive. Also considering Read the Bones.
Guess i'll just buy the deck and start testing.
AniList: http://anilist.co/animelist/650/Matas
I like his take on the deck, however I feel like not playing 4 Supreme Verdict is a mistake.
Crackling Perimter is only marginally good, and should only be played in the board, not as a two of maindeck.
Id prolly find a card to cut to make it 60. Im looking at the minotaur which is cute but just a liability. Sideboard needs to be tightened up too.
4 Maze's End
20 Gates
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
Permanent
4 Saruli Gatekeepers
4 Into the Wilds
4 Urban Evolution
4 Cyclonic Rift
4 Detention Sphere
4 Fog
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Riot Control
3 Wear/Tear
3 Essence Scatter
2 Crackling Perimeter
2 Assemble the Legion
3 Negate
2 Ratchet Bomb
Detention Sphere is a catch-all solution. It's a good answer for planeswalkers, Burning Earth, and any big creatures or gods. I expect a lot of aggression, but it still slows them down.
Cyclonic Rift is in just because it's a cheap bounce early on, that acts as a board wipe late game. It's like Far/Away, but not as disappointing against a full board. It also deals with a full board of Voice, which happens a bit too much. They keep getting tokens, because you keep fogging them, and it just gets out of hand. This is easily replaced with Verdict, but only if I get some.
I love Urban Evolution in the deck. It draws for days, and it deals with having lands stuck in the hand, which is one of the worse situations. Every turn Maze's End isn't being activated is another chance you'll draw a land instead of protection.
Sideboard needs some work, but I am stuck with what I have right now.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Edit: I guess I see Detention Sphere is the SB of some lists. Are you automatically bringing this in for game 2, or are you waiting until you see Pithing Needle and only bringing it in after that?
I absolutely do NOT like this version. Currently I'm playing with 15 Fog effects, 4 Wrath effects and 3 card drawing effects with Sphinx's.
Goldfishing a bit last night, I was virtually never without a fog effect or wrath so I don't really know what the deal is in his thinking that because Snapcaster is no longer in standard to re-use fog effects the deck is bad.
There are 4 different cheap fog effects currently in standard. With Supreme Verdict you can run a total of 16 fog/4 wrath for a total of 20 cards that blunt your opponents attack phase.
Also you don't have to fog every turn depending on the deck. Turns 2-3 many times won't require a fog effect as well as any turn after a Verdict.
I think his version of the deck is much more susceptible to being run over or screwed over by discard.
Detention Spheres aren't the only card we have to get rid of them. Personally, I play Merciless Evictions mainboard (which can deal with Pithing Needles and just about anything else that worries you), as well as Cyclonic Rifts. Just bounce the Needle the turn you can win, and you're golden. And I have Negates and Fade into Antiquities in the sideboard to further deal with Needles. Honestly, I'm more afraid of a well-timed Rakdos's Return or Dispel than a Needle.
If a deck is known or expected to have Needles, I'll probably side in some removal for it. But again, I'm not too worried about them.
I have not yet, and I think I need to play against some faster red decks before I consider Omenspeaker to be the right fit for this deck. If it's able to block consistently and more than just once, then I'll give it more of a chance. Right now, I prefer Gatecreeper Vine, but that's only because I feel the color fixing it gets me is very important, especially towards the goal of a t4 Supreme Verdict or a t6 Merciless Eviction.
As a further thought, I think I'm going to get rid of my 1-of Defend the Hearth and put in an Archaeomancer. Getting back a wrath or a utility spell from the sideboard is pretty good here. Thoughts?
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
@Purp - how was snapcaster mage a huge loss? playing augur or more fogs was better, and considering maze's end is mainly for budget players... no snapcaster