did horrible witht his deck at super fnm tonite. ww destroyed me, control destroyed me. do yall selves a favor and play another deck or dont play magic at all
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Modern - undecided
EDH - Mirri
Mahvel: Spencer/Magz/Vergil
did horrible witht his deck at super fnm tonite. ww destroyed me, control destroyed me. do yall selves a favor and play another deck or dont play magic at all
No offense man but some of us have been working and playing this deck for a while. Every deck has off days where you just get bad matchups or rough draws. Maybe you just made some poor play decisions.
You cant write a deck off on one bad night. We would appreciate if you kept the discussion constructive if you continue to post in this thread.
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Quote from DEADMANSEVEN »
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it put an evasive creature in its deck over a narrow hate card.
Quote from DARCYKUN »
If a card isn't worth your opponent removing, it's not worth putting in your deck.
5. U/W control: LOLOLOLOLOLOL I crushed this deck everytime I play it. They have 0 way to interact with us and we have the luxury of just holding our fogs for their turn seven or eight Aetherling. If they play the precint captain, we have supremes that they cant counter. Just sit back and maze's end.
Sideboard: -4 Gatekeepers*we don't need the life*, +2 pithing needles *Aetherling lol*, +2 Crackling Perimeter.
What about Jace, Memory Adept? It can kill us with a single activation, with more frequency than Ashiok. I run Bow of Nylea main just so I don't scoop to it the moment they cast it.
Ashiok is a lot easier to play around, because you just search for the second copy of any gate they exile, greatly reducing the chances of it blanking you. Annoying, but there is wiggle room.
did horrible witht his deck at super fnm tonite. ww destroyed me, control destroyed me. do yall selves a favor and play another deck or dont play magic at all
Are you sure you aren't failing in some way? What is your list?
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Very true about Jace, the thing that I've noticed is in my meta where I play paper and even it's seems the u/w that I've played online Jace Memory Adept has fallen out of favor. Now if you play in a Meta with JMA or you expect to see him a lot at a certain tourney I would put a supreme in the sideboard and move a bow to the main.
Hey guys I was the guy playing the maze's end deck on www.twitch.tv/epicgametimestream. I had a lot of requests so I wrote up a mini primer on the deck and what I've been doing with it. I hope you all enjoy!
Updated Maze's End
Lands: 27
2x all guild gates
4x Maze's End
2x Forest
1x Island
4x Fog
4x Druid's Deliverance
4x Defend the Hearth
4x Riot Control
4x Divination
3x Dention Sphere
3x Into the Wilds
2x Supreme Verdicts
1x Crackling Premiter
4x Saurli Gatekeepers
Sideboard: 15
2x Crackling Premiter
2x Bow of Nylea
1x Abrupt Decay
4x Pithing Needle
2x Trading Post
4x Wear//Tear
Have you ever wanted to play a deck that was fringe but took down Teir 1 decks. How about a deck that that trolls harder than most against aggro and control alike? If you answered yes to any of these questions you probably had the same idea when you saw this deck…."I need to jam this in at least one tournament." I've always loved decks that are just off the beaten path and don't qualify as the "best in the format". So when Theros showed it's pretty Greek influenced head and the format started to shape up with a bunch of Red Deck wins and G/w aggro, this seemed like a natural choice. Sure I'll get to the teir 1s eventually but the first deck I want to test is this one.
As far as the list goes I'm probably 98% satisfied with it. A couple of changes that should be made right off of the bat.
Cut Into the Wilds all together. This card I tried and while it did some work for me, I had a lot of trouble actually casting it on the turns that matter *turns 4 and 5*. After those turns your mana is being taken up by either stabilizing with Saurli Gatekeepers or trying to win with Maze's End or Crackling Perimeter.
We cut the Into the Wilds so now we need to add something. The biggest issue this deck seems to have is sometimes having the in on board, all 10 gates, but no Maze's End(It's happened twice now)! So what we need is something to draw into the win condition Maze's End. We can acommplish this with 2x Sphinx Revelations. This card fill a lot of rolls for us. It will help us stabilize, draw into the fogs and Maze's End we need, not to mention, it's kind of a fog itself.
We want to add one more card and that will be our 3rd Supreme Verdict. Every time I cast Supreme Verdict in my testing it was ALWAYS a blow out. I lost count at the amount of supreme's that would resolve and my opponent would just scoop.
So now I think our new deck should look something like this
Updated Maze's End
Lands: 27
2x all guild gates
4x Maze's End
2x Forest
1x Island
4x Fog
4x Druid's Deliverance
4x Defend the Hearth
4x Riot Control
4x Divination
3x Dention Sphere
3x Supreme Verdicts
2x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Crackling Premiter
4x Saurli Gatekeepers
Now let's look at our side board
Sideboard: 15
2x Crackling Premiter
2x Bow of Nylea
1x Abrupt Decay
4x Pithing Needle
2x Trading Post
4x Wear//Tear
Let's break down the side board card for card;
Crackling Perimeter: This card is AMAZING against U/w control and Esper control. Any deck that gives you multiple turns and tries to win with an aetherling or a desecration demon will have trouble against this thing. You resolve this on turn four and you opponent is on a very fast clock all of a sudden. This comes in for the control matchup and the 3 gatekeepers go out.
Bow of Nylea: I was iffy about this card at first then I played it against big daddy Obzedat, it's really good against that card. So we put Bow in for the RDW match up and any deck that's packing Obzedat. The + 3 life is so amazing and it really keeps us ahead
Abrupt Decay: I like this a lot against the RDW and G/w aggro match ups, deals with all of their relevant threats including a certain Advent of the wurm token. I will be adding 2 more of these.
4x Pithing Needles: These will be our Planeswalker beaters. Ashiok is such a rough card against us and we need a way to stop her. It also get's Aetherling and any of the myriad of Jace's out there.
2x Trading Post: I have been wholly unimpressed with this card and even with the pithing needles we don't have enough artifacts to make the life gain from this guy relevant and trust me when I say every point of life you have is important, so his goat maker ability isn't very good for us most of the time. Cutting these and making them Abrupt Decay.
4x Wear // Tear: They get rid of Pithing needles, they get rid of Burning Earth, and they even can catch an early unflinching courage.
So now that we have a list that I think we can work with
Updated Maze's End
Lands: 27
2x all guild gates
4x Maze's End
2x Forest
1x Island
4x Fog
4x Druid's Deliverance
4x Defend the Hearth
4x Riot Control
4x Divination
3x Dention Sphere
3x Supreme Verdicts
2x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Crackling Premiter
4x Saurli Gatekeepers
Sideboard: 15
2x Crackling Premiter
2x Bow of Nylea
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Pithing Needle
4x Wear//Tear
Last thing I think we need is to go over the main match ups in the format
1. G/w aggro: This match up is actually in our favor pretty much the entire game. Divination and Sphinx's Revelation is amazing here. Be sure to take the first couple of hits and save your fogs for those later turns. They don't really have a way to interact with you fogging and securing your maze's end win.
Sideboard: There are so many versions of this deck just side for what you see. Mostly -1 crackling, -3 spheres. +3 Abrupt decay, +1 bow
2. RDW: This matchup can be rough, it's all about stabalizing. If you don't have a white and green source in your hand probably mulligan. Make sure your turn four is when you start to fog or drop gatekeepers. Once you are able to sabalize you can play a supreme about turn six and then just start Maze's Ending your way to victory.
Sideboard: -1 crackling Perimeter, -3 D. Spheres, +4 wear//tear, +1 Bow. The bow is just a bit more stablization. Crackling and d.spheres can be crazy slow and we need to have the full sweep or wear//tear for burning earth.
3. Esper Control: This is prob your worst matchup. Ashiok is such a beating and one tick up for her can snatch two of the same guild gate and really ruin your day. Make sure to try and not get below 10 life, that puts you in the danger zone for some black devotion life loss.
Sideboard: -2 Supreme Verdict, -4 Gatekeepers, +4 Pithing needles, +2 bows. Pithing needles take care of their planes walkers, while bow will counter the life loss from Obzedat. We take out the gatekeepers because on turn four most esper decks hold mana up, and hard casting that thing just time walks you. Instead we hold up mana to play around syncopate.
4. R/G Monsters: Say hello to your second best matchup. Not much to say here, start fogging around turn 4, and save d.sphere for ember swallower. If you draw a late game supreme that's usually the ball game.
Sideboard: -4 Gatekeepers, -1 Crackling Perimeter, +4 wear//tear, +1 bow. Crackling doens't so to much in this match, and gatekeepers can be awkward to cast because on turn four and five we have to be fogging. Did I stress enough how much Burning Earth beats us.
5. U/W control: LOLOLOLOLOLOL I crushed this deck everytime I play it. They have 0 way to interact with us and we have the luxury of just holding our fogs for their turn seven or eight Aetherling. If they play the precint captain, we have supremes that they cant counter. Just sit back and maze's end.
Sideboard: -4 Gatekeepers*we don't need the life*, +2 pithing needles *Aetherling lol*, +2 Crackling Perimeter.
Is this deck teir one...no. Does it have a hard learning curve...yes. Can it take down a tournament...Absolutely. The good thing about this deck is that it truly has game against the top decks in the format. There are things that hurt this deck bad but we can play around them and overcome them with practice and intelligence So until next time happy brewing and I hope all your games are EPIC!
Hi, I made a 2-2 with a similar decklist. The only problem was that I only had 2 saruli and 1 perimeter. Won easily the first 2 against GWb midrange and RG aggro. The third lost against WBR obzedath the second game because he double warleaderhelix before I was wining and bad sideboarding... 4th match mana screwed agaibst rdw and lost against manabarbs game 2... oh I played evolving Wilde and found them good when you want fogs because you look and if not fog or land you just maze...
Pd: why not crackling petimeter against ashiok and other pws decks?
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For those questioning Bow in the MD, it is the greatest stall against Devoted. At the very least, it gives you three life a turn. That is a huge amount of wiggle room. Early game, you can ignore more attacks, and game two you have more wiggle around Skullcrack. You can cast your Fog, and still be safe if the damage goes through, by gaining life in response.
It also makes your Gatekeeper too big for Mizzium Mortars, at the same time making it big enough to kill every single creature they run. Killed a player with a Bow'd up Gatekeeper, because 4/6's tend to do that.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Yamikiri is correct, against g/w aggo I've used bow of Nylea on a gatekeeper and he became a suedo fog for me. It helps me stabalize against red and the giant thing for me is it is an awesome answer to obzedat life loss. It may not kill obzedat but it at least negates his huge ability of draining you.
Played today in states going 4-3-1. Ill post my list and a write up tomorrow, probably playing in an iq.
r1: UW Trading Post - deck was hard to beat. Lost 1-0-1
r2: esper - went to g3, he went ashiok into jace all three games Lost 2-1
r3: UWR win 2-0
r4: dega - win 2-0
r5: esper - 1-1 draw
r6: mono green won 2-0
r7: mono red- lost 2-0 *made misplays
r8: esper win 2-1
This is my actual decklist,
thinking about how to put bow in mainboard, don't know what to cut.
Further thinking of putting an Assemble the legion in somewhere, maybe cut 1 perimeter in the side or cut the into the wilds?
edit: just lost hard to the new mono black pack rat deck... any ideas for that, that mega life loss is so hard to deal with -.- (needle on pack rat is not enough....)
I played in an IQ today, finished 10th out of 43 players, missing swiss cut to top 8.
L 1-2 Monogreen Devotion
W 2-0 RG Midrange?
W 2-1 Azorius Control
L 0-2 Monoblue Devotion
W 2-1 Monogreen Devotion
W 2-1 Monored
4-2 overall
Both losses came to players who made top 8. If your meta has a lot of devotion decks, I would try to fit some number of Swan Song / Merciless Eviction to deal with gods, as currently I only have D-Sphere.
- Everytime I cast Verdict it was a blowout, I would not go less than 3. The exception was against big Garruk (so much card draw...) and that nasty monoblue deck, between all the scry and Bident they have lots of ways to have gas even after a wrath.
We gotta somehow find a way to trump this new "it" deck monoblue devotion. That match was rough.
I think designing this deck for paper is much different then for modo. 15 fogs almost seems to much for the paper format as there is much more control.
I am thinking of MD counterspells to try and help against ashiok.
I've been trying out a two of Gift of Immortality in the sideboard and I've really liked it so far. Putting it on a Gatecreeper Vine is fun and against a lot of decks putting it on a Saruli Gatekeeper is basically game over.
I played with maze's end deck in the last FNM and in a regular tournament saturday in the last week, went 0-3-1 in FNM and 3-2 on saturday.The deck is really fun but i feel there is some impossible deck's for us, like BRx (played against 3 in FNM and Rakdos's Return is almost a instant lose for us) and one drop RDW.
My first match was a 0-2 against a RGb in both game i was controlling the match with fogs + removal util he rakdos's return me and drop a big creature.
Second and four match against two diferent WRb decks, same as my first match, controlling the whole game util a rakkdo's destroy me.
My third match was against a esper and ended 1x1, nothing specific in games.
After the FNM i make some changes in my list:
Main:
-3 Saruli Gatekeepers
-2 Into the Wilds
-1 Bow
-1 Defend the Hearth
-1 Riot Control
In my matchs gatekeepers was just terrible +7 was irrelevant and they always was a target for oponent removal, 4 CMC is too much for only +7, i dont see a slot for gatekeepers in the list.Same about into the wilds, 4 CMC and irrelevant ability in games, yeah i can get some top deck with them but the cust is just too big
On saturday my games was a lot different, negate was the star of the day, targeting advent of the wurm, skullcrack, boros charm and rakdos's return. Azurius give us some extra turns, can kill tokens (great against GW) and can recycle our deck.
My matchs was:
2-0 against RUw burn: the first game was really easy, he tried to burn my life but negate 2 boros charm secured my victory and 2 verdict + 1 sphere took control of the creatures. The second game was hard, he dropped a turn 1 hero of pantheon and started to make a lot of pressure with burns util i establish the board with 7 life.
1-2 against GW: first game was fast, i was foging + removal for 7 turns but dont got a single maze's end and he killed me (got 5 different guildgate's in board, life is sux)
Second game was different, i took control of the board with some fog in early turns and 3 verdict util i maze's the game.
Third game was a really weird 20+ turn game he dropped 3 pitting needle for maze's along the game and in the end he ultimate a ajani with 22 2/2 tokens and i sphere the tokens on my turn (i was with 2 riot control in my hand...lost the game here), some turns later he killed me.
1-2 devotion red: first game i dont got a maze's end and he killed me with two dragons. Second game was easy for me, got a lot of removal, fog's and 2 negate in 2 skullcrack. Third game was really tough, got two elixir in my starting hand and one verdict, i was controlling the match util he top deck a dragon and two lightning strike while i only draw lands (got 9 guildgate's and a maze's tapped when he killed me).
Nothing special to say about my fourth game, was against a WW, really easy for me and in the game five i got a drop.
After saturday i got the feeling the deck really needs sphin's revellation in the main, the draw advantage can be HUGE and the life give us at least one more turn what can be crucial.
I've been so hung up on playing 15~16 fog effects, but going down to 12 makes sense. Drawing fogs for days and missing land drops / answers to opponent's threats is bad. Also, a lot of the times I find that the life gain from Riot Control is largely irrelevant, as your opponent will still have lethal on board the next turn. Losing protection from direct damage sucks, but 4 Saruli and a 1-of Bow MD should do it. Cutting 4 white spells allows me to cut 1 Plains for an extra Forest. Let's try this out.
I see many lists leaving out Gatecreeper Vine, which I can't agree with. Considering we play a 5 color mana base in a bant shell, mana fixing is a premium. A turn 3 Vine to grab a gate of colors you are missing is an extra step towards keeping it consistent. 2 or 3 is the right number.
Sire and Ruric Thar are a beating, lucky for us they are not popular.
My sideboarding against Monored:
- 3 D-Sphere
- 4 Divination
- 1 Merciless Eviction
+ 2 Abrupt Decay
+ 4 Negate
+ 2 Wear // Tear
It's about lowering the curve and protection from Skullcrack / Burning Earth.
The reason to run the vine is not that it speeds you up by a turn, but that it ensures you have the right colors to sweep on turn 4-5. verdict is 3 color specific at 1WWU. we need to make sure we arent stuck with only one white source or no blue when that critical turn rolls around.
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Quote from DEADMANSEVEN »
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it put an evasive creature in its deck over a narrow hate card.
Quote from DARCYKUN »
If a card isn't worth your opponent removing, it's not worth putting in your deck.
I'm aware that I lose protection to direct damage by cutting Riot Control, we just have to play with that in mind against red decks. 12 life is not a safe total against red, and I will fog early to stay above 12-15 life against them. It's not like I'm playing vs GW where 1 life is safe where they have no reach outside of combat damage. Riot Control also does nothing against life loss (Obzedat, extort triggers, etc.). I don't hate Riot Control per se, I'm trying to figure out if lowering the curve and making it easier on the manabase is worth having all green fogs instead of 8 green and 4 white ones.
Vine chump blocks and fixes your mana, Prism cantrips for a random card and fixes your mana. Easy choice for me. Vine tutors for a gate that you want, every single time, Urban / Sphinx / Opportunity might draw you cards you want. I'm fine with tapping out on turn 3 to cast Vine, I would never tap out to cast Urban (after wrath being the exception). Sphinx and Opportunity are slow, you might die with them in your hand by the time you get to 6 untapped lands. Vine counts as card draw. It allows me to keep otherwise un-keepable opening hands. A starting hand of one green gate, one random land, a Vine and 4 random spells is a keep to me.
Hi Scarth, there is no "one" list that everyone has agreed upon, we are still pitching ideas left and right. But I'll invite you to check mine. I have no Sphinx's Revelation, and the only cards worth anything are Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict and Abrupt Decay in my list.
@jonboyjon
Our MD are very close, you have 2 Urban Evolution, 2 Opportunity to my 3 Gatecreeper Vine, 1 Bow of Nylea. And a slightly different mana base.
I played against the Monoblue devotion deck, it's rough. That deck is fast.
Just played at my LGS and went 2-2. I gotta name a 3rd creature that wrecks Maze's End, besides Sire of Insanity and Ruric Thar. Ember Swallower. Made me lose 2 rounds, if your opponent untaps with that guy and 7 mana, it's gg. Not sure if it warrants SB slots, for now if I suspect my opponent plays Swallower, I'm gonna try to sandbag d-sphere/verdict for that. GR with Domri / Xenagos is a bad matchup.
I can confirm that Bow manhandles Obzedat.
Didn't play against any deck packing burn, so cutting Riot Control was fine.
Going to be putting Maze's End down for a couple of weeks. Unfortunately, the cards that are problem cards for this deck are being played in abundance.
I really dont think we should run any creature in 75, 95% of the competitive decks have some kind of removal in main deck and a creature without protection will be irrelevant
I really dont think we should run any creature in 75, 95% of the competitive decks have some kind of removal in main deck and a creature without protection will be irrelevant
the creatures we play are in the list for the ETB abilities. vine fetches us a gate to make sure we have the right colors, and thins the deck. Gatekeepers gain a large chunk of life and can block a good number of dudes. If you wanna remove the creautes then i think someone above mentioned prophetic prism as a vine replacement. not a bad choice honestly. it does let us fix and draw a card. personally id rather have the vine as it lets us keep a larger number of hands.
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Quote from DEADMANSEVEN »
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it put an evasive creature in its deck over a narrow hate card.
Quote from DARCYKUN »
If a card isn't worth your opponent removing, it's not worth putting in your deck.
EDH - Mirri
Mahvel: Spencer/Magz/Vergil
No offense man but some of us have been working and playing this deck for a while. Every deck has off days where you just get bad matchups or rough draws. Maybe you just made some poor play decisions.
You cant write a deck off on one bad night. We would appreciate if you kept the discussion constructive if you continue to post in this thread.
What about Jace, Memory Adept? It can kill us with a single activation, with more frequency than Ashiok. I run Bow of Nylea main just so I don't scoop to it the moment they cast it.
Ashiok is a lot easier to play around, because you just search for the second copy of any gate they exile, greatly reducing the chances of it blanking you. Annoying, but there is wiggle room.
Are you sure you aren't failing in some way? What is your list?
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
ping their fliers and keep fogs in hand
gain life when you can to slow down aggro
give +1/+1 counters to gatekeepers and creepers to make better blocks
and of course recovering from jace or other mill. Sadly it doesnt help against ashiok but it still can do so much that i really like it
Hi, I made a 2-2 with a similar decklist. The only problem was that I only had 2 saruli and 1 perimeter. Won easily the first 2 against GWb midrange and RG aggro. The third lost against WBR obzedath the second game because he double warleaderhelix before I was wining and bad sideboarding... 4th match mana screwed agaibst rdw and lost against manabarbs game 2... oh I played evolving Wilde and found them good when you want fogs because you look and if not fog or land you just maze...
Pd: why not crackling petimeter against ashiok and other pws decks?
XWU KCI Eggs
XBRG Lantern Control
It also makes your Gatekeeper too big for Mizzium Mortars, at the same time making it big enough to kill every single creature they run. Killed a player with a Bow'd up Gatekeeper, because 4/6's tend to do that.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
r1: UW Trading Post - deck was hard to beat. Lost 1-0-1
r2: esper - went to g3, he went ashiok into jace all three games Lost 2-1
r3: UWR win 2-0
r4: dega - win 2-0
r5: esper - 1-1 draw
r6: mono green won 2-0
r7: mono red- lost 2-0 *made misplays
r8: esper win 2-1
thinking about how to put bow in mainboard, don't know what to cut.
Further thinking of putting an Assemble the legion in somewhere, maybe cut 1 perimeter in the side or cut the into the wilds?
edit: just lost hard to the new mono black pack rat deck... any ideas for that, that mega life loss is so hard to deal with -.- (needle on pack rat is not enough....)
4 Maze's End
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
4 Druid's Deliverance
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Fog
3 Defend the Hearth
4 Riot Control
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Detention Sphere
1 AEtherize
//other
3 Prophetic Prism
1 Crackling Perimeter
4 Saruli Gatekeepers
3 Divination
1 Swan Song
4 Negate
2 Crackling Perimeter
4 Pithing Needle
2 Wear // Tear
1 Into the Wilds
1 Bow of Nylea
L 1-2 Monogreen Devotion
W 2-0 RG Midrange?
W 2-1 Azorius Control
L 0-2 Monoblue Devotion
W 2-1 Monogreen Devotion
W 2-1 Monored
4-2 overall
Both losses came to players who made top 8. If your meta has a lot of devotion decks, I would try to fit some number of Swan Song / Merciless Eviction to deal with gods, as currently I only have D-Sphere.
- Everytime I cast Verdict it was a blowout, I would not go less than 3. The exception was against big Garruk (so much card draw...) and that nasty monoblue deck, between all the scry and Bident they have lots of ways to have gas even after a wrath.
We gotta somehow find a way to trump this new "it" deck monoblue devotion. That match was rough.
Creatures [7]
3 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Saruli Gatekeepers
Spells [26]
2 Crackling Perimeter
3 Defend the Hearth
3 Detention Sphere
4 Divination
3 Druid's Deliverance
4 Fog
4 Riot Control
3 Supreme Verdict
Lands [27]
3 Azorius Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
1 Forest
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
4 Maze's End
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Plains
1 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Bow of Nylea
1 Crackling Perimeter
2 Negate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Slaughter Games
3 Wear // Tear
2 of each guildgate
2 forest
1 island
4 saruli gatekeepers
1 crackling perimeter
4 divination
2 sphinx's revelation
4 druids delvierence
4 defend the hearth
3 riot control
4 supreme verdict
3 detention sphere
4 pithing needle
2 Bow of Nylea
3 wear//tear
3 abrupt decay
1 swan song
2 crackling perimeter
I think designing this deck for paper is much different then for modo. 15 fogs almost seems to much for the paper format as there is much more control.
I am thinking of MD counterspells to try and help against ashiok.
Also this deck took 3rd in wyoming states:
1 Vraska the Unseen
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
1 Dreadbore
1 Elixir of Immortality
3 Far // Away
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Magma Jet
1 Merciless Eviction
4 Mizzium Mortars
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Urban Evolution
2 Warleader's Helix
3 Blood Crypt
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
4 Maze's End
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Crackling Perimeter
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Pithing Needle
2 Slaughter Games
2 Wear // Tear
I played with maze's end deck in the last FNM and in a regular tournament saturday in the last week, went 0-3-1 in FNM and 3-2 on saturday.The deck is really fun but i feel there is some impossible deck's for us, like BRx (played against 3 in FNM and Rakdos's Return is almost a instant lose for us) and one drop RDW.
My list in FNM was:
3x Selesnya Guildgate
2x Azorius Guildgate
2x Simic Guildgate
2x Grull Guildgate
2x Rakdos Guildgate
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Golgari Guildgate
1x Izzet Guildgate
1x Dimir Guildgate
1x Orzhov Guildgate
4x Forest
3x Plains
4x Fog
4x Riot Control
4x Druid's Druid's Deliverance
4x Defend the Hearth
4x Divination
3x Sphere of Detention
3x Supreme Verdict
2x Into the Wilds
1x Bow of Nylea
1x Crackling Perimeter
3x Slaughter Games
3x Pithing Needle
3x Wear/Tear
2x Crackling Perimeter
2x Selesnya Chamr
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Bow of Nylea
My first match was a 0-2 against a RGb in both game i was controlling the match with fogs + removal util he rakdos's return me and drop a big creature.
Second and four match against two diferent WRb decks, same as my first match, controlling the whole game util a rakkdo's destroy me.
My third match was against a esper and ended 1x1, nothing specific in games.
After the FNM i make some changes in my list:
Main:
-3 Saruli Gatekeepers
-2 Into the Wilds
-1 Bow
-1 Defend the Hearth
-1 Riot Control
+4 Negate
+3 Azurius charm
+1 Surpreme Verdict
SB:
-1 Bow
+1 Elixir
In my matchs gatekeepers was just terrible +7 was irrelevant and they always was a target for oponent removal, 4 CMC is too much for only +7, i dont see a slot for gatekeepers in the list.Same about into the wilds, 4 CMC and irrelevant ability in games, yeah i can get some top deck with them but the cust is just too big
On saturday my games was a lot different, negate was the star of the day, targeting advent of the wurm, skullcrack, boros charm and rakdos's return. Azurius give us some extra turns, can kill tokens (great against GW) and can recycle our deck.
My matchs was:
2-0 against RUw burn: the first game was really easy, he tried to burn my life but negate 2 boros charm secured my victory and 2 verdict + 1 sphere took control of the creatures. The second game was hard, he dropped a turn 1 hero of pantheon and started to make a lot of pressure with burns util i establish the board with 7 life.
1-2 against GW: first game was fast, i was foging + removal for 7 turns but dont got a single maze's end and he killed me (got 5 different guildgate's in board, life is sux)
Second game was different, i took control of the board with some fog in early turns and 3 verdict util i maze's the game.
Third game was a really weird 20+ turn game he dropped 3 pitting needle for maze's along the game and in the end he ultimate a ajani with 22 2/2 tokens and i sphere the tokens on my turn (i was with 2 riot control in my hand...lost the game here), some turns later he killed me.
1-2 devotion red: first game i dont got a maze's end and he killed me with two dragons. Second game was easy for me, got a lot of removal, fog's and 2 negate in 2 skullcrack. Third game was really tough, got two elixir in my starting hand and one verdict, i was controlling the match util he top deck a dragon and two lightning strike while i only draw lands (got 9 guildgate's and a maze's tapped when he killed me).
Nothing special to say about my fourth game, was against a WW, really easy for me and in the game five i got a drop.
After saturday i got the feeling the deck really needs sphin's revellation in the main, the draw advantage can be HUGE and the life give us at least one more turn what can be crucial.
Creatures [7]
3 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Saruli Gatekeepers
Spells [26]
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Fog
3 Detention Sphere
1 Merciless Eviction
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Divination
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Crackling Perimeter
3 Azorius Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Forest
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
4 Maze's End
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Crackling Perimeter
4 Negate
2 Pithing Needle
3 Wear // Tear
I see many lists leaving out Gatecreeper Vine, which I can't agree with. Considering we play a 5 color mana base in a bant shell, mana fixing is a premium. A turn 3 Vine to grab a gate of colors you are missing is an extra step towards keeping it consistent. 2 or 3 is the right number.
Sire and Ruric Thar are a beating, lucky for us they are not popular.
My sideboarding against Monored:
- 3 D-Sphere
- 4 Divination
- 1 Merciless Eviction
+ 2 Abrupt Decay
+ 4 Negate
+ 2 Wear // Tear
It's about lowering the curve and protection from Skullcrack / Burning Earth.
The reason to run the vine is not that it speeds you up by a turn, but that it ensures you have the right colors to sweep on turn 4-5. verdict is 3 color specific at 1WWU. we need to make sure we arent stuck with only one white source or no blue when that critical turn rolls around.
Vine chump blocks and fixes your mana, Prism cantrips for a random card and fixes your mana. Easy choice for me. Vine tutors for a gate that you want, every single time, Urban / Sphinx / Opportunity might draw you cards you want. I'm fine with tapping out on turn 3 to cast Vine, I would never tap out to cast Urban (after wrath being the exception). Sphinx and Opportunity are slow, you might die with them in your hand by the time you get to 6 untapped lands. Vine counts as card draw. It allows me to keep otherwise un-keepable opening hands. A starting hand of one green gate, one random land, a Vine and 4 random spells is a keep to me.
Hi Scarth, there is no "one" list that everyone has agreed upon, we are still pitching ideas left and right. But I'll invite you to check mine. I have no Sphinx's Revelation, and the only cards worth anything are Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict and Abrupt Decay in my list.
@jonboyjon
Our MD are very close, you have 2 Urban Evolution, 2 Opportunity to my 3 Gatecreeper Vine, 1 Bow of Nylea. And a slightly different mana base.
Just played at my LGS and went 2-2. I gotta name a 3rd creature that wrecks Maze's End, besides Sire of Insanity and Ruric Thar. Ember Swallower. Made me lose 2 rounds, if your opponent untaps with that guy and 7 mana, it's gg. Not sure if it warrants SB slots, for now if I suspect my opponent plays Swallower, I'm gonna try to sandbag d-sphere/verdict for that. GR with Domri / Xenagos is a bad matchup.
I can confirm that Bow manhandles Obzedat.
Didn't play against any deck packing burn, so cutting Riot Control was fine.
I really dont think we should run any creature in 75, 95% of the competitive decks have some kind of removal in main deck and a creature without protection will be irrelevant
the creatures we play are in the list for the ETB abilities. vine fetches us a gate to make sure we have the right colors, and thins the deck. Gatekeepers gain a large chunk of life and can block a good number of dudes. If you wanna remove the creautes then i think someone above mentioned prophetic prism as a vine replacement. not a bad choice honestly. it does let us fix and draw a card. personally id rather have the vine as it lets us keep a larger number of hands.
Elixir does not do anythign to stop Ashiok's +1 which is the main problem.
Pithing Needle, Negate or crackling perimeter damage are the only ways to deal with it.