I think it might be important for us to discuss cards we can't see ourselves not playing.
Cyclonic Rift has been huge for me in a lot of my games. I like it as a 2-3 of.
Swan Song maindeck(2-3), not only is it good for countering Rakdos Return, but it also protects me when I'm casting Urban Evolution.
I think aggro/monored and gw will be very prominent in the first few weeks, thus I think we need to be catering our deck to handles those. Therefore I also like 4Drop Jace/Elspeth. Maybe we need Essence Scatter
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I don't think you can have your mana base to both be able to cast fogs on time, and anger of the gods by turn 4. The frist three guildgates I want to see are some combination of simic, azorious and selesnaya
my friend tested with Uncovered Clues a bit and told me it was really good so i threw it in my list and man... the card is actually good in this deck. with `16 fog/4 wrath you are able to hit 2 fogs EVERYTIME.
its fantastic later when your hand is running out and you already have 7-8 gates in play and just need a few more turns to win.
trust me, test with this card, its very good with 16 fogs and 4 wraths.
yeah i used to play 3 divination 1 uncovered clues, but ive found early game draw to be unecessary, and late game when you're struggling to stream fogs, urban evolution and sphinx's revelation are better draw.
the main reason i dont like rev is that late game when you should have a mazes end in play and going you only have around 3-5 open mana so you cant really rev for much AND keep using mazes end.
clues fill the spot at 3 mana and lets you still fog when at 9 and 8 mana. (4 mana for mazes end because of the land bounce which leaves either 4 or 5 open so you can defend the hearth or druids deliverence or fog)
The only time I've been disappointed by Sphinx's Revelation is when I'm at low life, I have six land in play and have a Sphinx's and two Urban Evolutions in hand. Otherwise, I know that if I need to dig for an answer or gain a couple life to keep my life total comfortable, I can cast that Sphinx for three or so and be perfectly happy with it.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
Prophet of Kruphix seems like it should have a reasonable amount of synergy with Maze's End. It seems like it would lead to very fast wins either through Maze's End or Crackling Perimeter. It may not work in a turbo fog build, but I'm definitely going to be testing it, at least until I'm convinced it doesn't work. It seems to have amazing potential.
Probably won't work. It disrupts searching for a land when you play it, with no immediate gain. Untapping Maze on your opponent's turn doesn't do much, because you lose the ability to play it again to setup for next turn.
I don't think you understand Swan Song. Your opponent get's the token. Therefore we literally have nothing we are populating.
I'll give you a second to imagine a scenario where Swan Song would give you a Token. It counters almost everything this deck can run, so expect it to be brought in against you.
Druid's Deliverance has the perk of being able to Populate a token from Swan Song, giving you a potential win condition out of having one of your cards countered. Defend the Hearth only prevents damage to players, and nothing else.
If you run 16 Fogs, you are running both anyways, so having one do more doesn't mean much.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
the main reason i dont like rev is that late game when you should have a mazes end in play and going you only have around 3-5 open mana so you cant really rev for much AND keep using mazes end.
clues fill the spot at 3 mana and lets you still fog when at 9 and 8 mana. (4 mana for mazes end because of the land bounce which leaves either 4 or 5 open so you can defend the hearth or druids deliverence or fog)
Yes, but what if you're running low on fogs? You can take a turn to refill your hand and then continue with your plan. I've also had a couple games where I apparently didn't have a maze's end in the top 30 cards of my deck. Revelation not only keeps you alive long enough to find it, it also helps you to find it.
the main reason i dont like rev is that late game when you should have a mazes end in play and going you only have around 3-5 open mana so you cant really rev for much AND keep using mazes end.
clues fill the spot at 3 mana and lets you still fog when at 9 and 8 mana. (4 mana for mazes end because of the land bounce which leaves either 4 or 5 open so you can defend the hearth or druids deliverence or fog)
You may need to alter your playstyle on this one. Remove your blinders and see that its ok to detract from your routine when youre running low on resources. Forego using mazes end for the turn and just drop the big sphinx or evolution to ensure that you can continue to stream fogs.
On another note: now that i know defend the hearth works like druids deliverance/riot control instead of like fog, ive decided to main a playset of hindervines instead, as it can block combat damage done to planeswalkers, and keeping Ral Zarek alive long enough to ultimate or for jace to mill a few times is game-ending.
I can't say Hintervine is that appealing, since counters are fairly abundant right now. Over the next couple of weeks, people will keep trying Heroic and Hydra. Running a Fog that stops everything but what will kill you might be a bad idea right now.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Aetherize is pretty good, but I'm holding off putting it in the main for now. If there are a lot of hasty red decks in the format, Aetherize won't help too terribly much. I would rather run a Cyclonic Rift to deal with noncreature permanents and more sweepers to deal with creatures more permanently.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
ugh, i thought defend the hearth was like fog and hindervines... planeswalkers seem much less viable in here now that i know :/
I only run 3 and Defend the Hearth and only two of the new Elspeth so that's not a big deal for me but even if you ran more planeswalkers it's not horrid as you probably have 12 other fog effects.
When I used to run a G/U Turbo Fog deck a year or so ago I would only play a Jace if I knew I could keep him up. If you can't defend him, don't play him unless you desparately need a card.
I told that some pages ago, but everybody ignored me I run 3x of them in the MB and I find them WONDERFUL! Sure, you need mana, but when the turns go on and you run out of cards, doing 2x1 is so helpful.
Plus, am I the only one here that doesn't like creatures in the deck (of course Gatecreeper, but they are tutors with legs)? Some says to try the Sphynx, other says the new oracle, but do we really need to spend our mana for something is gonna die immediatly? Remouval are in every deck, and since we don't have creatures, opponents have their hands full of them.
I hope I've explained myself
I think Saruli Gatekeepers is completely worth it. It'll block a decent amount of creatures, the 7 life is huge, and the only other thing I'd rather be doing in this deck for four mana is casting Supreme Verdict. Heck, I've even attacked an opponent down to 6 life with a Gatekeepers when I had control over the game but couldn't find a Maze's End.
Where is the 'turbo' component for this deck? All I see is the 'fog' part
The turbo comes from being able to put more lands in play than our opponents and gaining card advantage through these means. This is different than any other turbofog deck I've played (and I've played quite a few; it's usually a pet deck of mine). We don't want to mill them. We just want to survive until we can get our uncounterable win con online. I tend to play it like a draw-go control deck, only tapping out for sweepers and the occasional Gatekeeper. And, to be honest, I think it's better than the traditional concept of "turbo fog". Here, we don't have to beat our opponent's entire deck.
I haven't read the entire thread up to this point, so I apologize if I'm repeating discussion that has already taken place. Have people tested Blind Obedience in this deck? It seems like a decent sideboard plan against some of the faster aggro decks that have hasty creatures that our sorcery speed wraths can't deal with. And the extort surely would pull us out of danger every once in a while.
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""Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
The turbo comes from being able to put more lands in play than our opponents and gaining card advantage through these means. This is different than any other turbofog deck I've played (and I've played quite a few; it's usually a pet deck of mine). We don't want to mill them. We just want to survive until we can get our uncounterable win con online. I tend to play it like a draw-go control deck, only tapping out for sweepers and the occasional Gatekeeper. And, to be honest, I think it's better than the traditional concept of "turbo fog". Here, we don't have to beat our opponent's entire deck.
Oh, I guess that is a sorta 'turbo', certainly not traditional though.
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Cyclonic Rift has been huge for me in a lot of my games. I like it as a 2-3 of.
Swan Song maindeck(2-3), not only is it good for countering Rakdos Return, but it also protects me when I'm casting Urban Evolution.
I think aggro/monored and gw will be very prominent in the first few weeks, thus I think we need to be catering our deck to handles those. Therefore I also like 4Drop Jace/Elspeth. Maybe we need Essence Scatter
4 Verdict and 2 Sphinx Rev.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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I don't think you understand Swan Song. Your opponent get's the token. Therefore we literally have nothing we are populating.
I don't think you can have your mana base to both be able to cast fogs on time, and anger of the gods by turn 4. The frist three guildgates I want to see are some combination of simic, azorious and selesnaya
I believe they're suggesting that our opponents may run them.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
its fantastic later when your hand is running out and you already have 7-8 gates in play and just need a few more turns to win.
trust me, test with this card, its very good with 16 fogs and 4 wraths.
clues fill the spot at 3 mana and lets you still fog when at 9 and 8 mana. (4 mana for mazes end because of the land bounce which leaves either 4 or 5 open so you can defend the hearth or druids deliverence or fog)
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
I'll give you a second to imagine a scenario where Swan Song would give you a Token. It counters almost everything this deck can run, so expect it to be brought in against you.
Druid's Deliverance has the perk of being able to Populate a token from Swan Song, giving you a potential win condition out of having one of your cards countered. Defend the Hearth only prevents damage to players, and nothing else.
If you run 16 Fogs, you are running both anyways, so having one do more doesn't mean much.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Yes, but what if you're running low on fogs? You can take a turn to refill your hand and then continue with your plan. I've also had a couple games where I apparently didn't have a maze's end in the top 30 cards of my deck. Revelation not only keeps you alive long enough to find it, it also helps you to find it.
Modern: UW Spirits
You may need to alter your playstyle on this one. Remove your blinders and see that its ok to detract from your routine when youre running low on resources. Forego using mazes end for the turn and just drop the big sphinx or evolution to ensure that you can continue to stream fogs.
On another note: now that i know defend the hearth works like druids deliverance/riot control instead of like fog, ive decided to main a playset of hindervines instead, as it can block combat damage done to planeswalkers, and keeping Ral Zarek alive long enough to ultimate or for jace to mill a few times is game-ending.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
I only run 3 and Defend the Hearth and only two of the new Elspeth so that's not a big deal for me but even if you ran more planeswalkers it's not horrid as you probably have 12 other fog effects.
When I used to run a G/U Turbo Fog deck a year or so ago I would only play a Jace if I knew I could keep him up. If you can't defend him, don't play him unless you desparately need a card.
There is no Turbo component like Howling Mine anymore. The thread should just be Maze's End Fog deck.
I think Saruli Gatekeepers is completely worth it. It'll block a decent amount of creatures, the 7 life is huge, and the only other thing I'd rather be doing in this deck for four mana is casting Supreme Verdict. Heck, I've even attacked an opponent down to 6 life with a Gatekeepers when I had control over the game but couldn't find a Maze's End.
The turbo comes from being able to put more lands in play than our opponents and gaining card advantage through these means. This is different than any other turbofog deck I've played (and I've played quite a few; it's usually a pet deck of mine). We don't want to mill them. We just want to survive until we can get our uncounterable win con online. I tend to play it like a draw-go control deck, only tapping out for sweepers and the occasional Gatekeeper. And, to be honest, I think it's better than the traditional concept of "turbo fog". Here, we don't have to beat our opponent's entire deck.
I haven't read the entire thread up to this point, so I apologize if I'm repeating discussion that has already taken place. Have people tested Blind Obedience in this deck? It seems like a decent sideboard plan against some of the faster aggro decks that have hasty creatures that our sorcery speed wraths can't deal with. And the extort surely would pull us out of danger every once in a while.
(They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier).
It spits out lands faster than your opponent, hence the "turbo".
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Oh, I guess that is a sorta 'turbo', certainly not traditional though.