Currently, I don't think Judge's familiar is high value enough to replace any other creatures with. And you're not taking out instants/sorcery to make space. But it is definitely something to consider. The only thing I would consider is exchange out -3 electromancer for +3 judge. But electromancer just does more for you around turns 3/4/5 and beyond. You get turn 3 steam auguries. You get turn 3 peezys with counter back up (post sideboard), turn 4 snipes with back up (post side) and so on. He's really very subtle at accelerating you ahead by a turn (at least for your game plan). Another important thing is electromancer is decent later in the game, where familiar is just poop.
Currently, Im running the creature package I mentioned in the previous post, 20 spells, and 24 lands. After sideboard though, in a number of match-ups, I'm typically taking out 3-5 creatures and replacing them with very specific spells and 1 or two more chimera (as well as swapping various instants/sor). The plan is to drag the game out a little longer with the fine-tuned game plan and let the chimera do a little more work along with storm breath to close out the game if snipe and pyro dont get it done. The sideboard is so key. There are a lot of very specific counterspells and you need to take advantage of them. I also think Wizards is pushing this strategy a little by giving us very good, narrow counterspells. That way control's not dominating game 1s, but gets a very nice boost game 2 with some clever siding.
Another thing of note is that I really think this deck needs 24 lands. You really want to be hitting your 5th and 6th lands for dumping the 2 and 3 drops with protection. Fortunately, stormbreath takes advantage of a little mana flood with his filthy monstrosity beast mode. Augury and Magma Jet are very helpful here too.
Also, I've been going back and forth between playing a singleton cyclonic rift or not. I wouldn't mind hearing other people's opinions on the rift. The problem I have with it is, Id rather be burning smaller creatures, or countering the bigger ones, instead of just delaying them a turn. But the overload can be nasty late game. Overall, I think it makes the deck less consistent and less focused, which I don't like.
And also, please remember this. If you ever resolve 2 guttersnipes in the first 4 or 5 turns in a game, it is very hard to lose if they can't interact with them (unless you're already wayyy behind). A Lightning strike does 7 damage, shock hits for 6. Toss in a counter and you're at 17 damage and that's probably game. I'm not afraid to take a lot of damage from aggro decks if I have snipes and burn in hand (saving the burn to hit them directly with snipe online). If I can get them both out by turn 4, its probably going to be game turn 5. They swing in turn 5 and bring you down to say 4 life. You Strike, Shock, and counter one of your own spells with Syncopate (for 0) for 17 damage and swing back with the two gutters for game. Scenarios similar to this are not as rare as you may think. You can definitely race aggro decks without burning out there creatures with this deck.
Would you mind taking a look at my list? I try to value guttersnipe highly, and you seem very helpful and knowledgeable and I would value your personal input on my list.
So, something that has me terrified is Mistcutter Hydra. I don't see how I can answer it - except stalling with an overloaded cyclonic rift. If its big enough to dodge Mizzium Mortars I don't see how I can survive it - do you have any ideas?
I feel like you're trying to address a non-problem. You're worried about a card that probably won't even make most sideboards. I would say wait and see what your metagame looks like before panicking about a card that may or may not see fringe sideboard plaly.
@Jericho. Def remove Purphoros, he has no place in this deck in my opinion. Replace him with 2 Stormbreaths. Stormbreath is easily one of the best cards in the set (as is Purphoros, but stormbreath is big time in this deck).
Like I said, I'm playing 24 lands, 16 creatures, and 20 spells maindeck. Could be right to take out another creature or two in favor of more spells.
I'm not going to post a deck list yet. I'd like to play at a tournament next week after some more fine tuning and testing. I'll put out a decklist after that. The outline I have above should be plenty for anyone interested to fill in. I think its good for people playing this deck to experiment with the instant/sor combinations and I don't think I have that down just yet and it will depend on the meta as well. U guys should jump on cockatrice and start testing. Spot removal is rampant as it has been since last standard (in any deck with black, white, or red). I usually have to fight through at least 2 removal spells before I can get things to stick.
I think the new standard has really opened up the gates for Izzet. It was just too hard for Izzet to deal with Thragtusk, farseek, Jund, and Bant Hexproof last standard. And those are all gone now (Jund w/ Thragtusk and Olivia and farseek). I have a feeling Izzet will get a couple more clutch cards in the next expansion along with its scry land.
Also, swan song might be good, too early to say. I think it may be better in U/W control with Supreme Verdict to clean up the mess. My sideboard counters include dispel, counterflix, negate, essence scatter. Also running 3 mortars with some chimera on the side ;).
I feel like you're trying to address a non-problem. You're worried about a card that probably won't even make most sideboards. I would say wait and see what your metagame looks like before panicking about a card that may or may not see fringe sideboard plaly.
Yes totally agree. Mistcutter hydra is a major non-factor. U can chump block it all day, doesnt even have trample. Isn't even a good deal mana wise. I only see it being good against hard control decks in the U/W shell. There are definitely a lot more other creatures to worry about over the hydra. One of the biggest problem creatures I've encountered game 1 is the Blood Baron. You really don't want them gaining life on you.
Also, I basically consider guttersnipe as a 5 mana drop in most controlly/heavy removal matchups. Same with Pyro (as a 4 drop). And this is fine, as those cards hold there value even when you're dropping them a lil bit later.
You really have to play this deck patiently. I've tapped out too many times on turn 4 to play guttersnipe, to then have them play one of their big creatures or spells and not have a counter open. I think that's the money spot you have to worry about. I wouldn't worry about countering too much anything on turns 2-3. But turn 4 is when people are going to be dropping bigger creatures, jace, gods, and what not.
I've played games where I just land drop until turn 5 leaving mana open for countering their stuff. This deck can go hard in the early game or late-mid game. Just depends on what cards you're playing against.
What's your take on Chandra's Phoenix. I've had good results running 3-4 md. It's cards advantage and its great in combination with steam augury.
Pheonix was sick right before Theros when I was playing it, but I'd rather have Chimera for this deck now that Theros is here. I wouldn't take out E-mancers cause you need the extra two drops, and otherwise the 3 drop spot is full. Chimera just goes harder than Pheonix in my opinion. A late game Chimera with no answer is game in two turns (swinging for 5 to 7+ in the air). Late game Pheonix is still just a measly two damage. Honestly I wouldn't want to see a Pheonix in my 5 cards after playing Augury, one way or another.
What is the survival strategy against aggro decks?
It depends on your starting hand. If I have pyros and guttersnipe. I let them keep their one and two drops. I let them swing in at me for damage, turns 2-4 and swing back with mine to get there life down a lil. Once you get Young P and Snipe online, u just start chumping there attacks with tokens and race them. If you have 2 or 3 tokens out, they really can't blindly swing into you with all their creatures cause you'll swing right back for the same damage. Once the P n G are online, u can burn their creatures if you need to. I take as much damage to the dome that I can first and try and use my burn directly on the opponent.
On the other hand, if you get a bunch of spells opening hand with no creatures, your best best is probably to sit back and counter/burn their stuff, make land drops, and eventually draw into your good stuff. Guttersnipe and Pyro will lose some value as you play ur spells without them. But Chimera and Stormbreath will wreak havoc once you drop them later on and will hopefully carry you to a win.
For aggro post sideboard, I'd drop the 3 electromancers and bring in another Chimera and more burn or essence scatters.
Game 1, I really like using Electromancers as bait. If they stick, they end up helping you out a lot. If not, well thats less removal for the rest of your impact creatures.
Lastly, we want something that gives our goat haste. Hammer of Purphoros is an option, here.
That plus some counterspells and spot removal, and I think we're in business.
The thing I don't see is a good way to generate a little extra mana. Cluestones and Keyrunes seems late to the party, but maybe they are a good option. The latter can beat in and survives angy gods.
Lastly, we want something that gives our goat haste. Hammer of Purphoros is an option, here.
That plus some counterspells and spot removal, and I think we're in business.
The thing I don't see is a good way to generate a little extra mana. Cluestones and Keyrunes seems late to the party, but maybe they are a good option. The latter can beat in and survives angy gods.
I originally had 3 Chimeras in the deck, but now I've pushed him down to 2 of. The reason being is that he's more of a bomb and I would rather have one or two more counterspells or burns in the slot to buff one Chimera than
two Chimeras on the field that are simply 3/3s or 4/3s.
I originally had 3 Chimeras in the deck, but now I've pushed him down to 2 of. The reason being is that he's more of a bomb and I would rather have one or two more counterspells or burns in the slot to buff one Chimera than
two Chimeras on the field that are simply 3/3s or 4/3s.
That might be better, but I'm not sure I understand your argumnet. Two 3/3s do more damage than one 3/4. It does make sense that having an extra counter spell to keep one 4/3 alive is better than having two 3/3s in the 'yard, though.
I'm proposing a much slower build here that runs 4-7 creatures total.
Note that some of these cards do double-duty. Keyrune can beat to filter and helps ramp, charm kills stuff, filters, and protects our goat. It's all about that goat.
That might be better, but I'm not sure I understand your argumnet. Two 3/3s do more damage than one 3/4. It does make sense that having an extra counter spell to keep one 4/3 alive is better than having two 3/3s in the 'yard, though.
I'm proposing a much slower build here that runs 4-7 creatures total.
Note that some of these cards do double-duty. Keyrune can beat to filter and helps ramp, charm kills stuff, filters, and protects our goat. It's all about that goat.
Really, I feel like I'm only going to need one as a late-game finisher. I'd rather have a couple more counter spells to make sure it hits the table and stays there, which in turn will make the one that sticks that much bigger.
I'm not sure why you want the hammer in this build. You're only going to give your chimera haste, since the dragon already has it. Otherwise you'll be paying mana to sac a land and chump I assume with the golems? i think it may be too slow.
Really, I feel like I'm only going to need one as a late-game finisher. I'd rather have a couple more counter spells to make sure it hits the table and stays there, which in turn will make the one that sticks that much bigger.
I'm not sure why you want the hammer in this build. You're only going to give your chimera haste, since the dragon already has it. Otherwise you'll be paying mana to sac a land and chump I assume with the golems? i think it may be too slow.
That's valid. I might prefer an extra couple of counters or some other protection for my finisher, since that's all they're intended to be. The mountain dudes are just a bonus.
The draw-discard of Steam Augury, Thoughtflare, and Izzet Charm coupled with Phoenix, then get back Phoenix with burn or Chandra makes it really nice. The fact that all the creatures are removal resistant gives it another card advantage and finishing aspect.
A good amount of burn-removal and mass removal against aggro decks. Resilient threats and burn against control.
The SB has Essence Scatter and Turn/Burn as answers to Gods and bigger creatures. The rest is more for anti-control measures.
My initial motivation for this deck was Spellheart Chimera, but it's not good in a deck with so few creatures and as someone else said, it's better as a finisher than a midrange/aggro card. But as a finisher it's not great, because end game you can get to 5+ mana and you'd just rather have a more resistant threat than an x/3 without its own protection. For the aggro-burn decks that this thread is leaning towards it might be good though.
Probably a lot you can do with this shell. Frostburn Weird, Young Pyromancer, Spellheart Chimera, lots of nice goodies in UR.
The draw-discard of Steam Augury, Thoughtflare, and Izzet Charm coupled with Phoenix, then get back Phoenix with burn or Chandra makes it really nice. The fact that all the creatures are removal resistant gives it another card advantage and finishing aspect.
Everyone keeps saying that phoenix works well with steam augury. Y'all know they get to pick which pile goes where, right?
My initial motivation for this deck was Spellheart Chimera, but it's not good in a deck with so few creatures and as someone else said, it's better as a finisher than a midrange/aggro card. But as a finisher it's not great, because end game you can get to 5+ mana and you'd just rather have a more resistant threat than an x/3 without its own protection. For the aggro-burn decks that this thread is leaning towards it might be good though.
I share your concern.
Have you done much playtesting? How effective is AotG at keeping early threats in check?
Also, I like the idea of using aetherling as a finisher here instead of the dragon. Definitely better for the more control-ly builds, but possibly if I can make the mana to get him online he'd be good for threat variety
Yeah, that is exactly why it works well with Steam Augury. They ultimately choose where your cards go, but with the Pheonix, you're happy with either.
I'm not sure that I am happy either way. If they put him in my hand, I've got a 2/2 for three. If they put him in my 'yard, I'll gain some card advantage (in the form of a 2/2 for three). The only way this is better than some random flying dork is if he goes to the graveyard.
Additionally, I'm not sure he's efficient enough for the aggro version of this deck. I don't think I want to spend 3 mana on 2 damage in a format with so many 2 power one and two drops.
It's like... bad haircut is no bargain at any price, you know?
I have seen almost no one playing Chandra's Phoenix in their Izzet Burn decks. Why? It's a recurrable burn spell that makes Steam Augury even better than it already is. Spellheart Chimera plays nice with Augury too.
Because it requires you to burn the enemy player to get it back, while you generally want to reserve your burn for creatures (that's the way I see it and why i'm not running it in my izzet deck).
That and chained to the rocks, also the bad mana-to-damage ratio.
I think this card was good in previous standard formats not as a recurrable burn spell but as a recurrable blocker for your Koth.
I have seen almost no one playing Chandra's Phoenix in their Izzet Burn decks. Why? It's a recurrable burn spell that makes Steam Augury even better than it already is. Spellheart Chimera plays nice with Augury too.
I feel like people are playing this deck for the slow game, and that is a losing strategy. Cards like Phoenix and the blue 1/3 Scryer are what wins games, not Guttersnipe, Electromancer and saving your lightning strikes for enemy creatures. That's just me though. People are being sidetracked by 'cute' things, when in reality the goblins are just going to end up as 2/2 chumpers doing nothing useful.
That's a cool list. I especially like the Aetherling, I might try something like that as well. Then I could run even fewer creatures! I also like how your deck blanks a good deal of removal your opponents will play. You may want to check out the UR control thread in Established for other ideas if you haven't already.
Have you tried Turn // Burn mainboard? It's way better in testing than I thought it would be. It kills virtually any creature in standard dead for 5 mana, can occasionaly 2-for-1, and is never dead because of the 2 mana shock part. Not sure what you could cut for it.
How about Opportunity over Thoughtflare? I've thought about running Thoughtflare before because of the synergy but getting 2 more cards for 1 more mana is pretty hard to pass up.
How has Chandra, Pyromaster been? She seems like she'd be pretty rough in a control deck. You have to keep their board completely clear (because nothing you run blocks), the +1 is mostly for getting through ground guys (all of your guys are evasive anyway), and the 0 is only your turn (you run 21 instants).
I would also try to stuff some Mutavaults in there, but I'm greedy like that
I have seen almost no one playing Chandra's Phoenix in their Izzet Burn decks. Why? It's a recurrable burn spell that makes Steam Augury even better than it already is. Spellheart Chimera plays nice with Augury too.
I tried it because I saw pre-rotation decks running it and have been very pleased. It's the most reliable damage source in the deck and your opponents don't want to kill it because of how easy it is to get back. If it's one of your 5 for Steam Augury, pretty much any setup where the 2 has a burn spell and the 3 has the pheonix will work out pretty well for you.
Sales Thread!
Would you mind taking a look at my list? I try to value guttersnipe highly, and you seem very helpful and knowledgeable and I would value your personal input on my list.
Main Deck (60 cards)
Land (23)
10 Mountain
9 Island
4 Steam Vents
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Spellheart Chimera
2 Purphoros, God Of The Forge
4 Guttersnipe
3 Goblin Electromancer
3 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Turn // Burn
2 Steam Augury
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dissolve
2 Essence Scatter
3 Izzet Staticaster
2 Counterflux
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Anger Of The Gods
Standard:
GBW Siege Rhino Midrange
Commander
Playing:
UGB Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
Working On:
B Mirri, The Cursed
UG Vorel Of The Hull Clade
I feel like you're trying to address a non-problem. You're worried about a card that probably won't even make most sideboards. I would say wait and see what your metagame looks like before panicking about a card that may or may not see fringe sideboard plaly.
Like I said, I'm playing 24 lands, 16 creatures, and 20 spells maindeck. Could be right to take out another creature or two in favor of more spells.
I'm not going to post a deck list yet. I'd like to play at a tournament next week after some more fine tuning and testing. I'll put out a decklist after that. The outline I have above should be plenty for anyone interested to fill in. I think its good for people playing this deck to experiment with the instant/sor combinations and I don't think I have that down just yet and it will depend on the meta as well. U guys should jump on cockatrice and start testing. Spot removal is rampant as it has been since last standard (in any deck with black, white, or red). I usually have to fight through at least 2 removal spells before I can get things to stick.
I think the new standard has really opened up the gates for Izzet. It was just too hard for Izzet to deal with Thragtusk, farseek, Jund, and Bant Hexproof last standard. And those are all gone now (Jund w/ Thragtusk and Olivia and farseek). I have a feeling Izzet will get a couple more clutch cards in the next expansion along with its scry land.
Also, swan song might be good, too early to say. I think it may be better in U/W control with Supreme Verdict to clean up the mess. My sideboard counters include dispel, counterflix, negate, essence scatter. Also running 3 mortars with some chimera on the side ;).
Yes totally agree. Mistcutter hydra is a major non-factor. U can chump block it all day, doesnt even have trample. Isn't even a good deal mana wise. I only see it being good against hard control decks in the U/W shell. There are definitely a lot more other creatures to worry about over the hydra. One of the biggest problem creatures I've encountered game 1 is the Blood Baron. You really don't want them gaining life on you.
Also, I basically consider guttersnipe as a 5 mana drop in most controlly/heavy removal matchups. Same with Pyro (as a 4 drop). And this is fine, as those cards hold there value even when you're dropping them a lil bit later.
You really have to play this deck patiently. I've tapped out too many times on turn 4 to play guttersnipe, to then have them play one of their big creatures or spells and not have a counter open. I think that's the money spot you have to worry about. I wouldn't worry about countering too much anything on turns 2-3. But turn 4 is when people are going to be dropping bigger creatures, jace, gods, and what not.
I've played games where I just land drop until turn 5 leaving mana open for countering their stuff. This deck can go hard in the early game or late-mid game. Just depends on what cards you're playing against.
Standard:
GBW Siege Rhino Midrange
Commander
Playing:
UGB Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
Working On:
B Mirri, The Cursed
UG Vorel Of The Hull Clade
Pheonix was sick right before Theros when I was playing it, but I'd rather have Chimera for this deck now that Theros is here. I wouldn't take out E-mancers cause you need the extra two drops, and otherwise the 3 drop spot is full. Chimera just goes harder than Pheonix in my opinion. A late game Chimera with no answer is game in two turns (swinging for 5 to 7+ in the air). Late game Pheonix is still just a measly two damage. Honestly I wouldn't want to see a Pheonix in my 5 cards after playing Augury, one way or another.
It depends on your starting hand. If I have pyros and guttersnipe. I let them keep their one and two drops. I let them swing in at me for damage, turns 2-4 and swing back with mine to get there life down a lil. Once you get Young P and Snipe online, u just start chumping there attacks with tokens and race them. If you have 2 or 3 tokens out, they really can't blindly swing into you with all their creatures cause you'll swing right back for the same damage. Once the P n G are online, u can burn their creatures if you need to. I take as much damage to the dome that I can first and try and use my burn directly on the opponent.
On the other hand, if you get a bunch of spells opening hand with no creatures, your best best is probably to sit back and counter/burn their stuff, make land drops, and eventually draw into your good stuff. Guttersnipe and Pyro will lose some value as you play ur spells without them. But Chimera and Stormbreath will wreak havoc once you drop them later on and will hopefully carry you to a win.
For aggro post sideboard, I'd drop the 3 electromancers and bring in another Chimera and more burn or essence scatters.
Game 1, I really like using Electromancers as bait. If they stick, they end up helping you out a lot. If not, well thats less removal for the rest of your impact creatures.
4 Wild Guess
4 Izzet Charm
4 Steam Augury
There's also some janky stuff you could run like Blast of Genius and Thoughtflare if you were planning on more mid-range or control.
I would want more mana faster if that were my plan. Goblin Electromancer kind of does that, but he's fragile.
Turn / Burn seems important to me because it deals with resiliant dudes like Voice of Resurgence.
Also, I think this deck would want some kind of sweeper. Potentially Anger of the Gods, but also cyclonic rift and/or mizzium mortars.
Lastly, we want something that gives our goat haste. Hammer of Purphoros is an option, here.
That plus some counterspells and spot removal, and I think we're in business.
The thing I don't see is a good way to generate a little extra mana. Cluestones and Keyrunes seems late to the party, but maybe they are a good option. The latter can beat in and survives angy gods.
I originally had 3 Chimeras in the deck, but now I've pushed him down to 2 of. The reason being is that he's more of a bomb and I would rather have one or two more counterspells or burns in the slot to buff one Chimera than
two Chimeras on the field that are simply 3/3s or 4/3s.
That might be better, but I'm not sure I understand your argumnet. Two 3/3s do more damage than one 3/4. It does make sense that having an extra counter spell to keep one 4/3 alive is better than having two 3/3s in the 'yard, though.
I'm proposing a much slower build here that runs 4-7 creatures total.
3 Spellheart Chimera
2 stormbreath dragon
filter
3 izzet keyrune
4 Steam Augury
4 Wild Guess
4 Izzet Charm
3 turn / burn
4 anger of the gods
2 cyclonic rift
protection
2 hammer of purphoros
3 dissolve
1 negate
1 izzet guildgate
11 mountain
9 island
4 steam vents
Note that some of these cards do double-duty. Keyrune can beat to filter and helps ramp, charm kills stuff, filters, and protects our goat. It's all about that goat.
Really, I feel like I'm only going to need one as a late-game finisher. I'd rather have a couple more counter spells to make sure it hits the table and stays there, which in turn will make the one that sticks that much bigger.
I'm not sure why you want the hammer in this build. You're only going to give your chimera haste, since the dragon already has it. Otherwise you'll be paying mana to sac a land and chump I assume with the golems? i think it may be too slow.
That's valid. I might prefer an extra couple of counters or some other protection for my finisher, since that's all they're intended to be. The mountain dudes are just a bonus.
3 Spellheart Chimera
2 stormbreath dragon
filter
3 izzet keyrune
4 Steam Augury
4 Wild Guess
4 Izzet Charm
3 turn / burn
4 anger of the gods
2 cyclonic rift
protection
1 dispel
3 dissolve
2 negate
2 mutavault
10 mountain
9 island
4 steam vents
I'm also unsure about running 4 steam augury. It seems like a lot.
1x Cyclonic Rift
3x Dissolve
1x Essence Scatter
3x Izzet Charm
3x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
2x Steam Augury
2x Syncopate
1x Turn / Burn
Sorcery (1)
1x Mizzium Mortars
3x goblin electromancer
3x guttersnipe
4x Young Pyromancer
2x Spellheart Chimera
2x Stormbreath Dragon
Land (24)
9x Island
1x Izzet Guildgate
10x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
Planeswalker (1)
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x essence scatter
1x negate
2x Dispel
3x Flames of the Firebrand
2x Mizzium Mortars
3x Peak Eruption
2x Turn / Burn
4x Chandra's Phoenix
1x Prognostic Sphinx
1x Aetherling
Other: 29
3x Lightning Strike
4x Izzet Charm
3x Magma Burst
1x Mizzium Mortars
4x Dissolve
4x Anger of the Gods
3x Steam Augury
3x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Thoughtflare
4x Steam Vents
4x Izzet Guildgate
9x Island
8x Mountain
2x Turn/Burn
3x Essence Scatter
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Steam Augury
4x Counterflux
4x Negate
The draw-discard of Steam Augury, Thoughtflare, and Izzet Charm coupled with Phoenix, then get back Phoenix with burn or Chandra makes it really nice. The fact that all the creatures are removal resistant gives it another card advantage and finishing aspect.
A good amount of burn-removal and mass removal against aggro decks. Resilient threats and burn against control.
The SB has Essence Scatter and Turn/Burn as answers to Gods and bigger creatures. The rest is more for anti-control measures.
My initial motivation for this deck was Spellheart Chimera, but it's not good in a deck with so few creatures and as someone else said, it's better as a finisher than a midrange/aggro card. But as a finisher it's not great, because end game you can get to 5+ mana and you'd just rather have a more resistant threat than an x/3 without its own protection. For the aggro-burn decks that this thread is leaning towards it might be good though.
Probably a lot you can do with this shell. Frostburn Weird, Young Pyromancer, Spellheart Chimera, lots of nice goodies in UR.
2 Epic Experiment
4 shock
4 magma jet
4 lightning strike
2 Flames of the firebrand
2 Boros Charm
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 chandra's phoenix
Something along these lines. Need card advantage, chandra melek and scry is powerful. Gauntlet lets your burn keep up with midrange.
Everyone keeps saying that phoenix works well with steam augury. Y'all know they get to pick which pile goes where, right?
I share your concern.
Have you done much playtesting? How effective is AotG at keeping early threats in check?
Also, I like the idea of using aetherling as a finisher here instead of the dragon. Definitely better for the more control-ly builds, but possibly if I can make the mana to get him online he'd be good for threat variety
Yeah, that is exactly why it works well with Steam Augury. They ultimately choose where your cards go, but with the Pheonix, you're happy with either.
I'm not sure that I am happy either way. If they put him in my hand, I've got a 2/2 for three. If they put him in my 'yard, I'll gain some card advantage (in the form of a 2/2 for three). The only way this is better than some random flying dork is if he goes to the graveyard.
Additionally, I'm not sure he's efficient enough for the aggro version of this deck. I don't think I want to spend 3 mana on 2 damage in a format with so many 2 power one and two drops.
It's like... bad haircut is no bargain at any price, you know?
That and chained to the rocks, also the bad mana-to-damage ratio.
I think this card was good in previous standard formats not as a recurrable burn spell but as a recurrable blocker for your Koth.
I feel like people are playing this deck for the slow game, and that is a losing strategy. Cards like Phoenix and the blue 1/3 Scryer are what wins games, not Guttersnipe, Electromancer and saving your lightning strikes for enemy creatures. That's just me though. People are being sidetracked by 'cute' things, when in reality the goblins are just going to end up as 2/2 chumpers doing nothing useful.
BU[MANA]G[/MANA]W[MANA]R[/MANA]Slivers (Overlord as general)BU[MANA]G[/MANA]W[MANA]R[/MANA]
BMono Black (Xiahou Dun as general)B
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That's a cool list. I especially like the Aetherling, I might try something like that as well. Then I could run even fewer creatures! I also like how your deck blanks a good deal of removal your opponents will play. You may want to check out the UR control thread in Established for other ideas if you haven't already.
Have you tried Turn // Burn mainboard? It's way better in testing than I thought it would be. It kills virtually any creature in standard dead for 5 mana, can occasionaly 2-for-1, and is never dead because of the 2 mana shock part. Not sure what you could cut for it.
How about Opportunity over Thoughtflare? I've thought about running Thoughtflare before because of the synergy but getting 2 more cards for 1 more mana is pretty hard to pass up.
How has Chandra, Pyromaster been? She seems like she'd be pretty rough in a control deck. You have to keep their board completely clear (because nothing you run blocks), the +1 is mostly for getting through ground guys (all of your guys are evasive anyway), and the 0 is only your turn (you run 21 instants).
I would also try to stuff some Mutavaults in there, but I'm greedy like that
I tried it because I saw pre-rotation decks running it and have been very pleased. It's the most reliable damage source in the deck and your opponents don't want to kill it because of how easy it is to get back. If it's one of your 5 for Steam Augury, pretty much any setup where the 2 has a burn spell and the 3 has the pheonix will work out pretty well for you.
It's funny you say that, I can't wait for somebody to play Chained to the Rocks so I can board in Peak Eruption. Detention Sphere gets you though, I know where you're coming from.