I think there are good answers to most problems in what ever version people chose to use, even in the case of instant enchantment removal, there are instant responses that can ensure our guy and remaining attached auras stay in play if blocked, such as Boros Charm, Selesnya Charm, Ghor-clan Rampager and Ajani's Presence.
However, the big problem that I see is Celestial Flare, which is becoming very popular in Wx side boards, even main deck in some UW control lists. It is much harder to play around than other sacrifice cards, and it will regularly cost the deck the consistency it needs to make top 8s and win big tournaments. Keep in mind that Celestial Flare can be cast during the End of Combat step, so even if you attacked with a second creature, if it died during combat they can still take down your main guy after damage. This card needs answers, which seem to be either counter spells like Dispel and Swan Song, or discard such as Thoughtseize and Duress.
The list that I posted is probably going down the wrong track with the Judge's Familiars, and most of the counters should probably be in the side board, but I think the basic idea is there for what could be a competitive Bant Hexproof deck. Also, I think Junk Hexproof has similar potential with discard.
I think that now there are more Hexproof creatures, the deck will have a surge in popularity and so will the hate for it.
I hope I didn't come off as harsh in my previous post.
I understand and agree that celestial flare is a problem. For a lot of decks this is to beat blood baron primarily and still have use against us. At most, it is 3 cards we have to worry about in a few fringe decks. For instance, the last two Azorius control decks that placed high in larger tourneys only had two in the 75. We don't auto win against enough top decks for too many resources to be devoted to beating us. There aren't many resources that can even be used against us anyways.
I like the idea of both Junk and Bant versions of this deck. I just haven't found enough power to make the change. With Naya, I've just changed my creature count a bit. Having 2-3 Eidolons is similar to having another couple ethereal armor in deck and ensure we have more of both creatures and enchantments. Our biggest problem is probably speed and consistency.
You won't see many flares outside of control decks and they shouldn't have too many blockers(usually zero). This really limits the use of flare. Once again, in major tourneys, we won't have to worry about flare except maybe 1-2 times at most. For example, lifebane zombie crushes green creature decks much worse than flare damages us. It is an exceptional card that has many uses. That hasn't stopped Junk, Jund and and a few GB decks from being very popular and placing very high. Celestial Flare ? Very limited SB cards for maybe a couple fringe decks. The WW cost is prohibitive and MBD and MUD are still the top decks in standard.
I think branching out is a great idea but not because of one card in standard. I also really don't see any other Hexproof deck besides Naya and Selesnya being competitive in larger tourneys. There just isn't enough there to warrant the change and branching out dilutes the focus of the deck. I tried branching out months ago before we got the new archer. Bant with the flyer was tested many times. It sucked and I've tested some with Archer now. Aqueous form just doesn't do enough even though I do like it.
I think branching out is a great idea but not because of one card in standard. I also really don't see any other Hexproof deck besides Naya and Selesnya being competitive in larger tourneys.
Sure, I see where you are coming from. I am going to try Bant out anyway and see how it goes, as I like the idea of being able to respond to sacrifice and enchantment removal with cheap counters. Also I think if I construct the deck very similar to a Selesnya build, with the addition of Aqueous Form and some counter spells in the side board, then it can't really be much worse than Selesnya and should benefit from having more evasion and some additional answers.
It seems alright, but a bit fragile. If it wasn't an enchantment creature it would be more useful, since game 2 and 3 they will probably side out creature removal in favor of enchantment removal.
I think branching out is a great idea but not because of one card in standard. I also really don't see any other Hexproof deck besides Naya and Selesnya being competitive in larger tourneys.
Sure, I see where you are coming from. I am going to try Bant out anyway and see how it goes, as I like the idea of being able to respond to sacrifice and enchantment removal with cheap counters. Also I think if I construct the deck very similar to a Selesnya build, with the addition of Aqueous Form and some counter spells in the side board, then it can't really be much worse than Selesnya and should benefit from having more evasion and some additional answers.
It seems alright, but a bit fragile. If it wasn't an enchantment creature it would be more useful, since game 2 and 3 they will probably side out creature removal in favor of enchantment removal.
aegis of the gods is an all-star card against lots of black decks and is also alright against some other decks, particularly burn. I've been using it in my sideboard and if your meta has lots of monoblack aggro or thoughtseize/edict effects it's a necessity.
I am currently running a GW Enchantment deck, not sure if it itself belongs in here but have been reading in here on and off for fun.
Aegis of the Gods I have in as a 2 of right now, and alongside of it I also have 2 Alpha Authority that whether it or something else I need it for can become hexproof. As a 1W 2/1 it's not bad just don't think of it as you becoming perfectly invincible. You pair up these two and it strengthens it greatly but never depend on it happening all the time.
This past FNM against a burn deck this played out greatly, as he couldn't target Aegis or myself with burn or charms/such. Started to bestow my stuff upon him and even if he would have wiped, I would have had a fresh slate of critters ready to go. Plus the fact that as far as I am seeing least in my LGS Enchantment removal is seeming to be on the lean side for the moment.
I'm starting to think that Aegis of the Gods is possibly needed maindeck, at least in my area, as celestial flare has become a maindeck card in several control decks. My feelings are that some of the explosion of the goldfish may need to be traded for some resilience. Going to test naya with Aegis main as a 3 of. Would like to run this deck at GP Chicago, but feel right now that control is a real bad matchup and saddly seems like control is increasing in popularity.
Ignore the Side as this is just a list of ideas for it and I am not finished with it. This is close to what I ran this past FNM(was short 1x Banishing Light, 1x Unflinching and 1x Alpha Authority). I have these already en route and plan on swapping out the Broodmaster for a Nylea, as she is cheaper to cast, is an enchantment and gives trample.
The biggest weakness I am having so far is against decks like my son's RG Monsters that pukes big critters out, and control with their wipes. I know the only thing I can do with the wipes is to not play into them too much and slow myself down. A tough thing to grasp but would say sticking to just bestow and a couple other enchants until one hits and they're low and my bestow-ing critters turn back to critters seems viable.
Against a creature heavy deck I am considering Fated Retribution out of the side to help without splashing another color AND get rid of their walkers. Kind of thinking as well of Extinguish All Hope by just swapping out 4 Forest and/or 4 Plains for 4 GB/WB shocks. Would wipe their field but not touch anything of mine. Both are high cost and have their drawbacks but wanting other views as well.
Deck as is runs well, gets very powerful very quickly but trying to make sure I have my bases covered. Oppressive rays is on the swapping block to become Pacifism in the main but not sure yet.
The sideboard is a constant evolving project, but so far it's been more consistant and Countless Battles gives more options, and the synergy of EoCBattles and Armor has made the deck very aggressive.
I don't get the eidolon of countless battles deal...that card is not where the naya version of this deck wants to be to me...
He costs 3 mana as a creature that doesn't have hexproof, and is a 4 mana aura...
If they wipe the board, you better win the NEXT TURN with auras, or he is very vulnerable. Even then, to get the 4 mana to bestow just doesn't seem likely to me where we want to be going. On a different note...
One area I differ from a lot of decks I see is the mana base. If you are trying to be fast with this deck, now that we have Mana confluence I don't think we need 22 lands. I honestly have been playtesting with 20 and it works just fine. I also don't really like temples. We really don't want to have lands come in tapped.
Finally, people have moved away from selesnya charm main way too fast. People will be trying out iroas and thassa still exists. Additionally, +2/+2 can swing the game early, finish it late, and against verdict dropping the 2/2 can be huge...
Round 1: Budget Mono Black. The guy used a LOT of Death Touch Creatures. Game one he flooded the board and I couldn't find an Ethereal Armor.
Sideboard:
+2 Fiendslayers
+3 Voice of Resurgence
-1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-1 Mogis's Warhound
Game two and three was no problems. Found Armor, then Gifts and went to town.
2-1
Round 2: Jund Monsters
Game one was fantastic, Game two lost to him, Game three went great as well. Nothing major here, just a lifegain race to beat Stormbreath.
Sideboard:
+2 Fiendslayers
+3 Selesnya Charm
-1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-1 Mogis's Warhound
2-1 for the round, 4-2 for the Game
Round 3: Mono Blue
Ugly, ugly ugly...Mono Blue Wrecked my day-all day. Mono Blue just floods the board with creatures. I thought I had a chance when until he played Master of the Waves on three consecutive turns. (Side Note: This guy won the whole day-congrats to him!)
Sideboard
+2 Deicide
+3 Skyslasher
-1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-1 Mogis's Warhound
0-2 for the round, 4-4 for the Game
Round 4: Kruphix Fog
An interesting deck that used Fog Effects until Kiora gets big enough. Lots of Ramping with Mystics and Carytids to bring out The World Eater fast. Round one-aggro beat, round 2-stalled out after bad mulligans. Round 3-straght up beats again.
Sideboard
+3 Selesnya Charm
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
2-1 for the round, 6-5 for the Game
Round 5: Homebrew Blue Flyers
My friend brought a really cool deck that focused on Blue 1/1 Flyers and Hall of Heroes. Again, the flooding of the board caused lots of craziness. His sideboard plan was all counterspells, so that was really tough as well.
He won round 3 with a Bestowed Faerie on his 3/3 Lizard.
Sideboard
+3 Skylasher
+3 Voice of Resurgence
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-2 Mogis's Warhound
1-2 for the Game, 7-7 for the Whole day.
As Game Day #2 approached I made the slight adjustment of switching -3 Eidolon of Countless Battles and +3 Selesnya Charm from Main to Side.
Game Day #2 was really bad...long story short Round 1 Esper Control, 1-2. Round 2 Burn- 2-0, Round 3 and 4 Mono Blue 0-2, 0-2. How I ended up in 8th, I don't know.
Overall thoughts of the deck.
Damn-when it worked it worked. Parts of the deck that just didn't work:
Eidolon of Countless Battles- In playtesting this worked out great, but in actual play it was horrible. Every time I could have played it I had better options. I would much rather run Ghor-Clan Rampager in it's place.
Gift of Orzhova: This card is questionable. Flying is nice, but Chained to the Rocks helped out so much prior to Journey.
The flooding of the board was a consistent battle, I just kept getting Aggro-ed out.
Lands: 22 lands may be too many. I'm curious how the deck would work with twenty lands with less scry lands.
Gift of orzhova is a really bad choice for naya unless for some reason you think lifelink will provide a lot of value in a particular meta. It's 3 mana for 1 power. The ratio is terrible.
Eocb can be useful but it's not such a good fit for naya. Naya isn't designed for that. If you have 4 you'd prefer to do something like ghor-clan plus boros charm for the win.
Read all the posts here and there are a lot of interesting comments here. However, I have sticked with the Naya build over the weekend and I got a pretty decent record (1st in FNM, 6th out of 46 overall in a Saturday Standard tourney).
Here's my decklist:
Main Board -
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Batassa Tower Archer
4 Witchstalker
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Eidolon of Countless Battles
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Madcap Skills
4 Unflinching Courage
2 Gift of Orzhova
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Banishing Light
3 Boros Charm
2 Selesnya Charm
4 Temple Garden
4 Stomping Ground
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Plains
1 Mountain
(Note: I have no Mana Confluence, so I had a bit of problem with mana but not really the type that broke the general gameplan. Or I probably got lucky. I also had no Skylashers so I had to settle with the 2 copies of Mistcutter Hydras that I had.)
My best match up was RDW, Boros Burn and GR Monsters. With the first two, a hand with 3 lands, a hexproof guy and an Unflinching Courage or a Gift of Orzhova was nuts. With GR Monsters, the idea is to race them for damage, which is what Naya Hexproof does best. I remember there was one round against GR Monsters that went like this (I was first turn):
1st turn: Gladecover Scout
2nd turn: Ethereal Armor, swing for 2
3rd turn: Ethereal Armor, Madcap Skills, swing for 10
4th turn: Selesnya Charm (to eliminate Polukranos), Chained to the Rocks (to eliminate Burning Tree Emissary), swing for lethal.
Worst match up is (still!) Mono-Black Devotion. Actually, anything that runs Thoughtseize, Brain Maggot and/or Devour Flesh was a pain to overcome.
An interesting match was with the Control players, like Esper and the Bant-Kiora builds. The Boros Charm and the SB Ajani's Presence definitely saved against Supreme Verdicts, while the SB Pithing Needle shut down their win conditions. Another interesting matchup I had was White Weenies (I'd take Devour Flesh over Celestial Flare any day; at least the former could be played around much easier).
As I've found out firsthand, Naya is still the way to go. There are so many nut-draws in this build (and this was without the mana consistency given by Mana Confluence!), and the number of times I made a Ghor-Clan-plus-doublestrike combo or made an 9/x flying/trample, first strike, lifelink, hexproof guy was beyond count. Naya definitely has the explosiveness needed to close games fast with this deck, which I can't see in the Bant builds.
Sure, being able to counter spells or being unblockable or drawing cards is nice, but with the Hexproof decks (even in the GOST builds from Innistrad), the deck focused on being able to smash the 20-life barrier in the fastest possible time. My opinion is that if you go for counter, you become too defensive on an otherwise aggressive deck, whilst the unblockability is (sorta) fixed by Madcap Skills with the removals, or the Gift of Orzhova.
Still, there is something to be said with both builds, but personal experience has sent me to the Nayan side of this debate.
Read all the posts here and there are a lot of interesting comments here. However, I have sticked with the Naya build over the weekend and I got a pretty decent record (1st in FNM, 6th out of 46 overall in a Saturday Standard tourney).
Here's my decklist:
Main Board -
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Batassa Tower Archer
4 Witchstalker
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Eidolon of Countless Battles
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Madcap Skills
4 Unflinching Courage
2 Gift of Orzhova
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Banishing Light
3 Boros Charm
2 Selesnya Charm
4 Temple Garden
4 Stomping Ground
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Plains
1 Mountain
(Note: I have no Mana Confluence, so I had a bit of problem with mana but not really the type that broke the general gameplan. Or I probably got lucky. I also had no Skylashers so I had to settle with the 2 copies of Mistcutter Hydras that I had.)
My best match up was RDW, Boros Burn and GR Monsters. With the first two, a hand with 3 lands, a hexproof guy and an Unflinching Courage or a Gift of Orzhova was nuts. With GR Monsters, the idea is to race them for damage, which is what Naya Hexproof does best. I remember there was one round against GR Monsters that went like this (I was first turn):
1st turn: Gladecover Scout
2nd turn: Ethereal Armor, swing for 2
3rd turn: Ethereal Armor, Madcap Skills, swing for 10
4th turn: Selesnya Charm (to eliminate Polukranos), Chained to the Rocks (to eliminate Burning Tree Emissary), swing for lethal.
Worst match up is (still!) Mono-Black Devotion. Actually, anything that runs Thoughtseize, Brain Maggot and/or Devour Flesh was a pain to overcome.
An interesting match was with the Control players, like Esper and the Bant-Kiora builds. The Boros Charm and the SB Ajani's Presence definitely saved against Supreme Verdicts, while the SB Pithing Needle shut down their win conditions. Another interesting matchup I had was White Weenies (I'd take Devour Flesh over Celestial Flare any day; at least the former could be played around much easier).
As I've found out firsthand, Naya is still the way to go. There are so many nut-draws in this build (and this was without the mana consistency given by Mana Confluence!), and the number of times I made a Ghor-Clan-plus-doublestrike combo or made an 9/x flying/trample, first strike, lifelink, hexproof guy was beyond count. Naya definitely has the explosiveness needed to close games fast with this deck, which I can't see in the Bant builds.
Sure, being able to counter spells or being unblockable or drawing cards is nice, but with the Hexproof decks (even in the GOST builds from Innistrad), the deck focused on being able to smash the 20-life barrier in the fastest possible time. My opinion is that if you go for counter, you become too defensive on an otherwise aggressive deck, whilst the unblockability is (sorta) fixed by Madcap Skills with the removals, or the Gift of Orzhova.
Still, there is something to be said with both builds, but personal experience has sent me to the Nayan side of this debate.
I play a Selesnya build, so maybe not as applicable, but one or two Reviving Melody have been pretty good at helping edict/thoughtseize recovery. (I also side Aegis of the Gods , but might not be worthwhile in other metas.)
One other thing I forgot to comment on: Eidolon of Countless Battles is definitely just a one-of. You don't want to be saddled with a targetable creature, and post-Verdict, it's really just a 1/1 (assuming you have Bestowed it, which is what the card is really for in this deck).
Alright...you knew it was coming....so....four color hexproof? NOW, hear me out....lol
We know the Naya build is solid...we need green for the hexproof creatures, white for sideboard removal, voice and unflinching courage, and red for madcap skills and boros charm...why blue then? Three reasons....one...simic charm is a great card...it allows us to give our enchantments hexproof, give +3/+3, which if done with double strike can end a game, and the ability to bounce EITHER their creature or our creature is kinda nifty...the other blue card I'd run mainboard is aqueous form...unblockable makes us another invisible stalker...and the ability to scry every swing is great to keep the gas up...
and the third reason: side board cards could definitely include the standard ajani's presence and the like...but also spell rupture, which was always a favorite tech play in the old bant matchup...a lot of blue sideboard cards could come in, making life easier.
so...crazy? I haven't been able to get the hexproof deck to function due to 1)a lot of GR monster decks run mizzium mortars, and have the mana to overload them more often than not b)control decks in general c)hand disruption and sac effects from mono-black and d)a METRIC TON of enchantment hate running around the format lately...this is an attempt to make a deck I love more stable.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
If that spoiled card is one of the two best hexproofs then hexproof could be taking a vacation. The only way you'd ever want to suit up a 3 cmc creature is if that creature is ridiculously powerful. Witchstalker was only an option because there wasn't anything else. The spoiled card is similar to Witchstalker. The ability is basically not an ability against some decks, and the loss of power and toughness is tough to swallow.
IIIinest...I agree...I'm praying we get another one or two drop hexproof creature to go with bassara tower archer...or, and this would be AWESOME, another reprinting of rancor...honestly one of the biggest losses to hexproof will be ethereal armor...there will have to be a pretty darn good one or two drop enchantment to fill those shoes, and eidolon of countless battles is way too slow to be completely viable...
Private Mod Note
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
I think that rancor is one of those cards that should be printed more often than not. I think that rancor was skipped in 14 because of the enchantment theme. I was extremely disappointed by Theros because they said enchantments would matter, but they didn't really. There were some artifacts and some creatures that had enchantment subtype slapped on them but not very many real enchantments.
It was careless of them to use that phrasing.
Then when they were balancing the set they were so intent on doing dumb stuff that they couldn't allow truly powerful cards like rancor to override their pet projects. Not only that - they wanted to make black a powerful color and so they had to carefully devise a way to do so without making the color too oppressive. The easiest way to do that is the way they did that. They made all of the interesting combos slow and then they gave black the ultimate combo-disruptor.
I think there are good answers to most problems in what ever version people chose to use, even in the case of instant enchantment removal, there are instant responses that can ensure our guy and remaining attached auras stay in play if blocked, such as Boros Charm, Selesnya Charm, Ghor-clan Rampager and Ajani's Presence.
However, the big problem that I see is Celestial Flare, which is becoming very popular in Wx side boards, even main deck in some UW control lists. It is much harder to play around than other sacrifice cards, and it will regularly cost the deck the consistency it needs to make top 8s and win big tournaments. Keep in mind that Celestial Flare can be cast during the End of Combat step, so even if you attacked with a second creature, if it died during combat they can still take down your main guy after damage. This card needs answers, which seem to be either counter spells like Dispel and Swan Song, or discard such as Thoughtseize and Duress.
The list that I posted is probably going down the wrong track with the Judge's Familiars, and most of the counters should probably be in the side board, but I think the basic idea is there for what could be a competitive Bant Hexproof deck. Also, I think Junk Hexproof has similar potential with discard.
I think that now there are more Hexproof creatures, the deck will have a surge in popularity and so will the hate for it.
I understand and agree that celestial flare is a problem. For a lot of decks this is to beat blood baron primarily and still have use against us. At most, it is 3 cards we have to worry about in a few fringe decks. For instance, the last two Azorius control decks that placed high in larger tourneys only had two in the 75. We don't auto win against enough top decks for too many resources to be devoted to beating us. There aren't many resources that can even be used against us anyways.
I like the idea of both Junk and Bant versions of this deck. I just haven't found enough power to make the change. With Naya, I've just changed my creature count a bit. Having 2-3 Eidolons is similar to having another couple ethereal armor in deck and ensure we have more of both creatures and enchantments. Our biggest problem is probably speed and consistency.
You won't see many flares outside of control decks and they shouldn't have too many blockers(usually zero). This really limits the use of flare. Once again, in major tourneys, we won't have to worry about flare except maybe 1-2 times at most. For example, lifebane zombie crushes green creature decks much worse than flare damages us. It is an exceptional card that has many uses. That hasn't stopped Junk, Jund and and a few GB decks from being very popular and placing very high. Celestial Flare ? Very limited SB cards for maybe a couple fringe decks. The WW cost is prohibitive and MBD and MUD are still the top decks in standard.
I think branching out is a great idea but not because of one card in standard. I also really don't see any other Hexproof deck besides Naya and Selesnya being competitive in larger tourneys. There just isn't enough there to warrant the change and branching out dilutes the focus of the deck. I tried branching out months ago before we got the new archer. Bant with the flyer was tested many times. It sucked and I've tested some with Archer now. Aqueous form just doesn't do enough even though I do like it.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Sure, I see where you are coming from. I am going to try Bant out anyway and see how it goes, as I like the idea of being able to respond to sacrifice and enchantment removal with cheap counters. Also I think if I construct the deck very similar to a Selesnya build, with the addition of Aqueous Form and some counter spells in the side board, then it can't really be much worse than Selesnya and should benefit from having more evasion and some additional answers.
Seems like the sort of card I am looking for, something that can stop enchantment removal, thanks.
It seems alright, but a bit fragile. If it wasn't an enchantment creature it would be more useful, since game 2 and 3 they will probably side out creature removal in favor of enchantment removal.
aegis of the gods is an all-star card against lots of black decks and is also alright against some other decks, particularly burn. I've been using it in my sideboard and if your meta has lots of monoblack aggro or thoughtseize/edict effects it's a necessity.
I am currently running a GW Enchantment deck, not sure if it itself belongs in here but have been reading in here on and off for fun.
Aegis of the Gods I have in as a 2 of right now, and alongside of it I also have 2 Alpha Authority that whether it or something else I need it for can become hexproof. As a 1W 2/1 it's not bad just don't think of it as you becoming perfectly invincible. You pair up these two and it strengthens it greatly but never depend on it happening all the time.
This past FNM against a burn deck this played out greatly, as he couldn't target Aegis or myself with burn or charms/such. Started to bestow my stuff upon him and even if he would have wiped, I would have had a fresh slate of critters ready to go. Plus the fact that as far as I am seeing least in my LGS Enchantment removal is seeming to be on the lean side for the moment.
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
4 Mantis Rider
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Shivan Reef
3 Temple of Epiphany
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Outpost Siege
3 Dig Through Time
1 Disdainful Stroke
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Valorous Stance
3 Wild Slash
1 Outpost Siege
1 Abzan Advantage
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Erase
2 Negate
1 Valorous Stance
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Anger of the Gods
3 End Hostilities
1 Glare of Heresy
2x Alpha Authority
2x Archetype of Courage
3x Banishing Light
3x Boon Satyr
3x Eidolon of Blossoms
3x Eidolon of Countless Battles
3x Ethereal Armor
8x Forest
1x Hydra Broodmaster
2x Leafcrown Dryad
2x Nyx-Fleece Ram
3x Nyxborn Shieldmate
3x Oakheart Dryads
2x Oppressive Rays
8x Plains
4x Temple Garden
4x Temple of Plenty
2x Unflinching Courage
1x Deicide
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Mortal Obstinacy
1x Naturalize
1x Oppressive Rays
1x Selesnya Charm
Ignore the Side as this is just a list of ideas for it and I am not finished with it. This is close to what I ran this past FNM(was short 1x Banishing Light, 1x Unflinching and 1x Alpha Authority). I have these already en route and plan on swapping out the Broodmaster for a Nylea, as she is cheaper to cast, is an enchantment and gives trample.
The biggest weakness I am having so far is against decks like my son's RG Monsters that pukes big critters out, and control with their wipes. I know the only thing I can do with the wipes is to not play into them too much and slow myself down. A tough thing to grasp but would say sticking to just bestow and a couple other enchants until one hits and they're low and my bestow-ing critters turn back to critters seems viable.
Against a creature heavy deck I am considering Fated Retribution out of the side to help without splashing another color AND get rid of their walkers. Kind of thinking as well of Extinguish All Hope by just swapping out 4 Forest and/or 4 Plains for 4 GB/WB shocks. Would wipe their field but not touch anything of mine. Both are high cost and have their drawbacks but wanting other views as well.
Deck as is runs well, gets very powerful very quickly but trying to make sure I have my bases covered. Oppressive rays is on the swapping block to become Pacifism in the main but not sure yet.
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
In the end I pulled Voice of Resurgance, and I haven't really missed it yet.
4 Mana Confluence
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
2 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Bassara Tower Archer
4 Boros Charm
4 Madcap Skills
3 Mogis's Warhound
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
3 Gift of Orzhova
4 Unflinching Courage
4 Witchstalker
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Selesnya Charm
4 Skylasher
2 Banishing Light
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
The sideboard is a constant evolving project, but so far it's been more consistant and Countless Battles gives more options, and the synergy of EoCBattles and Armor has made the deck very aggressive.
He costs 3 mana as a creature that doesn't have hexproof, and is a 4 mana aura...
If they wipe the board, you better win the NEXT TURN with auras, or he is very vulnerable. Even then, to get the 4 mana to bestow just doesn't seem likely to me where we want to be going. On a different note...
One area I differ from a lot of decks I see is the mana base. If you are trying to be fast with this deck, now that we have Mana confluence I don't think we need 22 lands. I honestly have been playtesting with 20 and it works just fine. I also don't really like temples. We really don't want to have lands come in tapped.
Finally, people have moved away from selesnya charm main way too fast. People will be trying out iroas and thassa still exists. Additionally, +2/+2 can swing the game early, finish it late, and against verdict dropping the 2/2 can be huge...
Also. EoCBattles on a creature with an Armor on it already can get very big and very fast.
4 Mana Confluence
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
2 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Plenty
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Bassara Tower Archer
4 Boros Charm
4 Madcap Skills
3 Mogis's Warhound
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
3 Gift of Orzhova
4 Unflinching Courage
4 Witchstalker
1 Ajani's Presence
2 Deicide
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Skylasher
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Banishing Light
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
Actually it was two Game Days, back to back.
Game 1
Round 1: Budget Mono Black. The guy used a LOT of Death Touch Creatures. Game one he flooded the board and I couldn't find an Ethereal Armor.
Sideboard:
+2 Fiendslayers
+3 Voice of Resurgence
-1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-1 Mogis's Warhound
Game two and three was no problems. Found Armor, then Gifts and went to town.
2-1
Round 2: Jund Monsters
Game one was fantastic, Game two lost to him, Game three went great as well. Nothing major here, just a lifegain race to beat Stormbreath.
Sideboard:
+2 Fiendslayers
+3 Selesnya Charm
-1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-1 Mogis's Warhound
2-1 for the round, 4-2 for the Game
Round 3: Mono Blue
Ugly, ugly ugly...Mono Blue Wrecked my day-all day. Mono Blue just floods the board with creatures. I thought I had a chance when until he played Master of the Waves on three consecutive turns. (Side Note: This guy won the whole day-congrats to him!)
Sideboard
+2 Deicide
+3 Skyslasher
-1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-1 Mogis's Warhound
0-2 for the round, 4-4 for the Game
Round 4: Kruphix Fog
An interesting deck that used Fog Effects until Kiora gets big enough. Lots of Ramping with Mystics and Carytids to bring out The World Eater fast. Round one-aggro beat, round 2-stalled out after bad mulligans. Round 3-straght up beats again.
Sideboard
+3 Selesnya Charm
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
2-1 for the round, 6-5 for the Game
Round 5: Homebrew Blue Flyers
My friend brought a really cool deck that focused on Blue 1/1 Flyers and Hall of Heroes. Again, the flooding of the board caused lots of craziness. His sideboard plan was all counterspells, so that was really tough as well.
He won round 3 with a Bestowed Faerie on his 3/3 Lizard.
Sideboard
+3 Skylasher
+3 Voice of Resurgence
-3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-2 Mogis's Warhound
1-2 for the Game, 7-7 for the Whole day.
As Game Day #2 approached I made the slight adjustment of switching -3 Eidolon of Countless Battles and +3 Selesnya Charm from Main to Side.
Game Day #2 was really bad...long story short Round 1 Esper Control, 1-2. Round 2 Burn- 2-0, Round 3 and 4 Mono Blue 0-2, 0-2. How I ended up in 8th, I don't know.
Overall thoughts of the deck.
Damn-when it worked it worked. Parts of the deck that just didn't work:
Eidolon of Countless Battles- In playtesting this worked out great, but in actual play it was horrible. Every time I could have played it I had better options. I would much rather run Ghor-Clan Rampager in it's place.
Gift of Orzhova: This card is questionable. Flying is nice, but Chained to the Rocks helped out so much prior to Journey.
The flooding of the board was a consistent battle, I just kept getting Aggro-ed out.
Lands: 22 lands may be too many. I'm curious how the deck would work with twenty lands with less scry lands.
Instead use skylasher in the sideboard for sure, and possibly in the main.
You do have to have a way to eliminate problem creatures like mow.
Eocb can be useful but it's not such a good fit for naya. Naya isn't designed for that. If you have 4 you'd prefer to do something like ghor-clan plus boros charm for the win.
Here's my decklist:
Main Board -
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Batassa Tower Archer
4 Witchstalker
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Eidolon of Countless Battles
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Madcap Skills
4 Unflinching Courage
2 Gift of Orzhova
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Banishing Light
3 Boros Charm
2 Selesnya Charm
4 Temple Garden
4 Stomping Ground
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Plains
1 Mountain
Sideboard -
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Deicide
1 Ajani's Presence
2 Glare of Heresy
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Pithing Needle
(Note: I have no Mana Confluence, so I had a bit of problem with mana but not really the type that broke the general gameplan. Or I probably got lucky. I also had no Skylashers so I had to settle with the 2 copies of Mistcutter Hydras that I had.)
My best match up was RDW, Boros Burn and GR Monsters. With the first two, a hand with 3 lands, a hexproof guy and an Unflinching Courage or a Gift of Orzhova was nuts. With GR Monsters, the idea is to race them for damage, which is what Naya Hexproof does best. I remember there was one round against GR Monsters that went like this (I was first turn):
1st turn: Gladecover Scout
2nd turn: Ethereal Armor, swing for 2
3rd turn: Ethereal Armor, Madcap Skills, swing for 10
4th turn: Selesnya Charm (to eliminate Polukranos), Chained to the Rocks (to eliminate Burning Tree Emissary), swing for lethal.
Worst match up is (still!) Mono-Black Devotion. Actually, anything that runs Thoughtseize, Brain Maggot and/or Devour Flesh was a pain to overcome.
An interesting match was with the Control players, like Esper and the Bant-Kiora builds. The Boros Charm and the SB Ajani's Presence definitely saved against Supreme Verdicts, while the SB Pithing Needle shut down their win conditions. Another interesting matchup I had was White Weenies (I'd take Devour Flesh over Celestial Flare any day; at least the former could be played around much easier).
As I've found out firsthand, Naya is still the way to go. There are so many nut-draws in this build (and this was without the mana consistency given by Mana Confluence!), and the number of times I made a Ghor-Clan-plus-doublestrike combo or made an 9/x flying/trample, first strike, lifelink, hexproof guy was beyond count. Naya definitely has the explosiveness needed to close games fast with this deck, which I can't see in the Bant builds.
Sure, being able to counter spells or being unblockable or drawing cards is nice, but with the Hexproof decks (even in the GOST builds from Innistrad), the deck focused on being able to smash the 20-life barrier in the fastest possible time. My opinion is that if you go for counter, you become too defensive on an otherwise aggressive deck, whilst the unblockability is (sorta) fixed by Madcap Skills with the removals, or the Gift of Orzhova.
Still, there is something to be said with both builds, but personal experience has sent me to the Nayan side of this debate.
I play a Selesnya build, so maybe not as applicable, but one or two Reviving Melody have been pretty good at helping edict/thoughtseize recovery. (I also side Aegis of the Gods , but might not be worthwhile in other metas.)
One other thing I forgot to comment on: Eidolon of Countless Battles is definitely just a one-of. You don't want to be saddled with a targetable creature, and post-Verdict, it's really just a 1/1 (assuming you have Bestowed it, which is what the card is really for in this deck).
We know the Naya build is solid...we need green for the hexproof creatures, white for sideboard removal, voice and unflinching courage, and red for madcap skills and boros charm...why blue then? Three reasons....one...simic charm is a great card...it allows us to give our enchantments hexproof, give +3/+3, which if done with double strike can end a game, and the ability to bounce EITHER their creature or our creature is kinda nifty...the other blue card I'd run mainboard is aqueous form...unblockable makes us another invisible stalker...and the ability to scry every swing is great to keep the gas up...
where's what a deck might look like:
4 witchstalker
4 bassara tower archer
4 voice of resurgence
4 simic charm
4 boros charm
4 ethereal armor
4 aqueous form
4 unflinching courage
4 madcap skills
4 temple garden
4 breeding pool
4 sacred foundry
4 stomping ground
and the third reason: side board cards could definitely include the standard ajani's presence and the like...but also spell rupture, which was always a favorite tech play in the old bant matchup...a lot of blue sideboard cards could come in, making life easier.
so...crazy? I haven't been able to get the hexproof deck to function due to 1)a lot of GR monster decks run mizzium mortars, and have the mana to overload them more often than not b)control decks in general c)hand disruption and sac effects from mono-black and d)a METRIC TON of enchantment hate running around the format lately...this is an attempt to make a deck I love more stable.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10462585_670016236414576_4529777460201853171_n.jpg
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Makes Gift of Orzhova easier to play, lets me add Reaper of The Wilds, Herald of Torment, Aspect of Gorgon is a consideration, Abrupt Decay is always good lately, and finally Golgari Charm.
Haven't lost a match yet with it, although RW Burn had me close.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
It was careless of them to use that phrasing.
Then when they were balancing the set they were so intent on doing dumb stuff that they couldn't allow truly powerful cards like rancor to override their pet projects. Not only that - they wanted to make black a powerful color and so they had to carefully devise a way to do so without making the color too oppressive. The easiest way to do that is the way they did that. They made all of the interesting combos slow and then they gave black the ultimate combo-disruptor.