I think 3 Thassa's is good. 4, in this deck is too much.
I have decided to go back more towards the original build. It has a smoother flow, imo, for the way I play, and how I feel comfortable playing.
I did switch the Cloudfin Raptor for Judge's Familiar. Tatebomb said it best, that what is missing is a creature that can be cast with Blue or Green. Just a 1 or a 2 drop that could be cast by either could really help this deck.
The Shrine helps get the overload on the Cyclonic Rift and the Prophet allows Aetherize and the Rift to be stronger. I just really like playing the Prophet, and then PSZ their turn to refill my hand during their turn.
We'll see how it goes though.
By getting rid of cloudfin you're getting rid of one of your best early synergy cards.
That's why the mono blue deck worked. All the early game things had bottom to top synergy, best example: evolve. everything you cast later makes it bigger. On top of the it also makes your later devotion cards stronger. Deck needs first turn plays.
Judges familiar is just the weaker one since it's just an insurance policy on your later spells.
I'm telling you...... Prophet is a different deck with a higher mana curve. Make that deck too. I just don't think it belongs here. You have to make that deck as a deck that has a lot of mana sinks and instants, instants that can counter, remove, and draw cards. It's just too expensive with limited utility here. I stopped building a RUG control prophet deck for this one, but I'm thinking I might throw together both now.
I'm also cutting bident to run 3 swan songs, and also 3 giant growth. Giant growth besides being a cheap extension of the biomancer combo, sneaking it the last couple of damage, saving a creature from burn, it also has a ridiculous play with frostburn weird becoming a 10/1 then unblockable with thassa in play late game.
The only issue I've had with raptor over familiar is when I have to go a few turns with an 0/1 becuase for some reason I can't evolve it. At least with familiar I can attack right away. When raptor works it's great but in my testing I'm looking at a couple worthless 0/1's a fair amount of the time.
Edit. But to be fair you look like your running about 6 more creatures than I am so that contributes.
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Standard: Gave it up
Modern: Eldrazi Tron, UW Tron, GR Tron, BW Tokens, WU Death and Taxes
All vey good points. I played a couple games last night, and got hosed, but that is all in testing. I don't like the judges, Im gonna stick with the evolve guys, and I may replace the specters for Vaporkins.
I really like the prophets for flashing creatures... It just flies good imo. We'll see. I've only got 10-15 games with the deck, but I like where its going.
I dunno, I'm on vacation, so when I get back, I'll really put in some effort.
All vey good points. I played a couple games last night, and got hosed, but that is all in testing. I don't like the judges, Im gonna stick with the evolve guys, and I may replace the specters for Vaporkins.
I really like the prophets for flashing creatures... It just flies good imo. We'll see. I've only got 10-15 games with the deck, but I like where its going.
I dunno, I'm on vacation, so when I get back, I'll really put in some effort.
I'm definitely not insulting on the prophet, however he belongs in more of a midrange control strategy, or a mana ramp strategy. In a midrange creature deck, a creature at 5cmc has to do more than let us cast more creatures.
in the case of the blue devotion deck it's kinda a aggro midrange deck with a lot of bi directional synergy, this simic build is trying to do some thing similar. Everything in that blue deck, as well as this simic deck, is trying to give incremental value.
If we wanna play prophet we need atleast 6 or 7 mana dorks, a bunch of mana sinks, big creatures, and instants. The masters deck doesn't really have that, I'm not trying to be repetitive, I'm not trying to insult your idea. I just think that if you want to be competitive you need one main focus, then maybe one side focus/ a plan B, then an insurance policy on the entire package.
For mono blue they only had a very small insurance policy: a couple instants, jace, and bident. However since the mana and synergy were so good and so consistent they didn't need it. Thing is with the prophet you do a lot just to get to square one, that can be alright if your deck is focused around getting to him and using him as efficiently as possible. But if the deck is not whats the point of getting to prophet just to set up things that can't make full use of the mana and instant speed it provides.
I'm definitely not insulting on the prophet, however he belongs in more of a midrange control strategy, or a mana ramp strategy. In a midrange creature deck, a creature at 5cmc has to do more than let us cast more creatures.
in the case of the blue devotion deck it's kinda a aggro midrange deck with a lot of bi directional synergy, this simic build is trying to do some thing similar. Everything in that blue deck, as well as this simic deck, is trying to give incremental value.
If we wanna play prophet we need atleast 6 or 7 mana dorks, a bunch of mana sinks, big creatures, and instants. The masters deck doesn't really have that, I'm not trying to be repetitive, I'm not trying to insult your idea. I just think that if you want to be competitive you need one main focus, then maybe one side focus/ a plan B, then an insurance policy on the entire package.
For mono blue they only had a very small insurance policy: a couple instants, jace, and bident. However since the mana and synergy were so good and so consistent they didn't need it. Thing is with the prophet you do a lot just to get to square one, that can be alright if your deck is focused around getting to him and using him as efficiently as possible. But if the deck is not whats the point of getting to prophet just to set up things that can't make full use of the mana and instant speed it provides.
You're right. I really was just forcing the prophet because of the 'cute' combat tricks.
Did some play testing last night at my LGS.
What I've found is that Frostburn Weird and Nightveil Specter are too hard to cast in this shell. I really love Vaporkin for my turn 2. It's easy to cast, and it just works so well! Turn 1 can be the mystic, and turn 2 can be the Vaporkin. Turn 3 Bident of Thassa is awesome because we're swinging with the Vaporkin and then drawing a card. Turn 4 can be a MoW or Biomancer or Polukranos, World Eater.
I think PSZ costs too much,but I really really like her, but in play testing I'm thinking Prognostic Sphinx in it's place. We need to be able to have a second wincon, so Polukranos or Kalonian Hydra are great additions. With 22 lands, I think Polukranos wins out, although Biomancer + Kalonian Hydra = GG.
The other thing I'm thinking is running 4 dorks, pulling out the caryatids and replacing 2-3 if them with Scooze for a more aggro build, and adding in another Bident. Turn 3 bident a are amazeballs.
Still playing with this deck, and trying work out the kinks.
I got rid of Prime Speaker Zagana and added Primeval Bounty. I was really just forcing PSZ because I wanted her to work. Bounty is amazing in itself, but can be insane with Master Biomancer. Casting a giant growth on Biomancer and then putting 3 +1/+1's on it is awesome, then playing a cloudfin raptor the same turn netting a 8/9 raptor and an 11/11 beast for 2 mana is kinda crazy. That's a but magical Christmas, but it can get crazy.
There is just a much greater upside to the bounty late game than there is PSZ.
Still playing with this deck, and trying work out the kinks.
I got rid of Prime Speaker Zagana and added Primeval Bounty. I was really just forcing PSZ because I wanted her to work. Bounty is amazing in itself, but can be insane with Master Biomancer. Casting a giant growth on Biomancer and then putting 3 +1/+1's on it is awesome, then playing a cloudfin raptor the same turn netting a 8/9 raptor and an 11/11 beast for 2 mana is kinda crazy. That's a but magical Christmas, but it can get crazy.
There is just a much greater upside to the bounty late game than there is PSZ.
Still like this incarnation the best.
Just really simple, has the power of devotion and so much more
I like this build a lot. I prefer vaporkin over the Weirds for their evasion and ability to cast easier. I don't have the Jaces so I'll run the Bountys in the meantime.
Found judges familiar underwhelming as this format evolves. Format is slower than before, format is mostly midrange and midrange-control, format doesn't favor decks with explosive plays and little gas, format has a lot of spot removal. Considering all these things I moved the judges familiar out in favor of a bigger devotion builder.
Wow did I see a difference, try this build and be amazed, I've really seen a huge improvement and I will continue to play this deck. I await what BotG brings to simic.
Found judges familiar underwhelming as this format evolves. Format is slower than before, format is mostly midrange and midrange-control, format doesn't favor decks with explosive plays and little gas, format has a lot of spot removal. Considering all these things I moved the judges familiar out in favor of a bigger devotion builder.
Wow did I see a difference, try this build and be amazed, I've really seen a huge improvement and I will continue to play this deck. I await what BotG brings to simic.
I'm excited as well. If wizards reprints Murkfiend Liege, that would set this deck up to be a house!! I know they wont since they just put it in a commander deck... but one can wish!!
Check out this deck list that took 8th at the STG open over the weekend.
What do you guys think about my deck ?
I am toying with the idea of putting Master of Waves in, but buying 3 or 4 is a bit expensive for me at the moment.
Sofar i am 25-11 in the practice room with it, destroying all red / black aggro decks and black devotion decks.
Control and G/R devotion give me problems, but haven't seen them enough to test stuff out.
What do you guys think about my deck ?
I am toying with the idea of putting Master of Waves in, but buying 3 or 4 is a bit expensive for me at the moment.
Sofar i am 25-11 in the practice room with it, destroying all red / black aggro decks and black devotion decks.
Control and G/R devotion give me problems, but haven't seen them enough to test stuff out.
I think if you add MoW you'd be doing too much... I think you're already trying to do too much here without enough lands. Your curve is pretty high and you don't have much of an early game which is why control and GR devotion beat you. I'd run 24 lands at least, even with the dorks and caryatids. 4 Dissolves is a lot as well. I get that you're trying to have the Prophet out by turn 3, then drop a hydra on their turn, but that is gonna be very difficult to make happen.
By getting rid of cloudfin you're getting rid of one of your best early synergy cards.
That's why the mono blue deck worked. All the early game things had bottom to top synergy, best example: evolve. everything you cast later makes it bigger. On top of the it also makes your later devotion cards stronger. Deck needs first turn plays.
Judges familiar is just the weaker one since it's just an insurance policy on your later spells.
I'm telling you...... Prophet is a different deck with a higher mana curve. Make that deck too. I just don't think it belongs here. You have to make that deck as a deck that has a lot of mana sinks and instants, instants that can counter, remove, and draw cards. It's just too expensive with limited utility here. I stopped building a RUG control prophet deck for this one, but I'm thinking I might throw together both now.
I'm also cutting bident to run 3 swan songs, and also 3 giant growth. Giant growth besides being a cheap extension of the biomancer combo, sneaking it the last couple of damage, saving a creature from burn, it also has a ridiculous play with frostburn weird becoming a 10/1 then unblockable with thassa in play late game.
Edit. But to be fair you look like your running about 6 more creatures than I am so that contributes.
Modern: Eldrazi Tron, UW Tron, GR Tron, BW Tokens, WU Death and Taxes
I really like the prophets for flashing creatures... It just flies good imo. We'll see. I've only got 10-15 games with the deck, but I like where its going.
I dunno, I'm on vacation, so when I get back, I'll really put in some effort.
I'm definitely not insulting on the prophet, however he belongs in more of a midrange control strategy, or a mana ramp strategy. In a midrange creature deck, a creature at 5cmc has to do more than let us cast more creatures.
in the case of the blue devotion deck it's kinda a aggro midrange deck with a lot of bi directional synergy, this simic build is trying to do some thing similar. Everything in that blue deck, as well as this simic deck, is trying to give incremental value.
If we wanna play prophet we need atleast 6 or 7 mana dorks, a bunch of mana sinks, big creatures, and instants. The masters deck doesn't really have that, I'm not trying to be repetitive, I'm not trying to insult your idea. I just think that if you want to be competitive you need one main focus, then maybe one side focus/ a plan B, then an insurance policy on the entire package.
For mono blue they only had a very small insurance policy: a couple instants, jace, and bident. However since the mana and synergy were so good and so consistent they didn't need it. Thing is with the prophet you do a lot just to get to square one, that can be alright if your deck is focused around getting to him and using him as efficiently as possible. But if the deck is not whats the point of getting to prophet just to set up things that can't make full use of the mana and instant speed it provides.
You're right. I really was just forcing the prophet because of the 'cute' combat tricks.
Did some play testing last night at my LGS.
What I've found is that Frostburn Weird and Nightveil Specter are too hard to cast in this shell. I really love Vaporkin for my turn 2. It's easy to cast, and it just works so well! Turn 1 can be the mystic, and turn 2 can be the Vaporkin. Turn 3 Bident of Thassa is awesome because we're swinging with the Vaporkin and then drawing a card. Turn 4 can be a MoW or Biomancer or Polukranos, World Eater.
I think PSZ costs too much,but I really really like her, but in play testing I'm thinking Prognostic Sphinx in it's place. We need to be able to have a second wincon, so Polukranos or Kalonian Hydra are great additions. With 22 lands, I think Polukranos wins out, although Biomancer + Kalonian Hydra = GG.
I got rid of Prime Speaker Zagana and added Primeval Bounty. I was really just forcing PSZ because I wanted her to work. Bounty is amazing in itself, but can be insane with Master Biomancer. Casting a giant growth on Biomancer and then putting 3 +1/+1's on it is awesome, then playing a cloudfin raptor the same turn netting a 8/9 raptor and an 11/11 beast for 2 mana is kinda crazy. That's a but magical Christmas, but it can get crazy.
There is just a much greater upside to the bounty late game than there is PSZ.
Still like this incarnation the best.
Just really simple, has the power of devotion and so much more
4 Cloudfin Raptor
3 judges familiar
4 Master of Waves
3 Master Biomancer
3 frostburn weird
4 Sylvan Carytid
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
2 Simic charm
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Swan song
2 giant growth
2 bident of thassa
2 Jace, architect of thought
Land (24)
13 Islands
5 Forests
4 Breeding Pool
2 Temple of Mystery
I like primeval bounty.
I like this build a lot. I prefer vaporkin over the Weirds for their evasion and ability to cast easier. I don't have the Jaces so I'll run the Bountys in the meantime.
4 Cloudfin Raptor
3 nightveil specter
4 Master of Waves
3 Master Biomancer
3 frostburn weird
4 Sylvan Carytid
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
2 Simic charm
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Swan song
2 giant growth
2 bident of thassa
2 Jace, architect of thought
Land (24)
13 Islands
5 Forests
4 Breeding Pool
2 Temple of Mystery
Found judges familiar underwhelming as this format evolves. Format is slower than before, format is mostly midrange and midrange-control, format doesn't favor decks with explosive plays and little gas, format has a lot of spot removal. Considering all these things I moved the judges familiar out in favor of a bigger devotion builder.
Wow did I see a difference, try this build and be amazed, I've really seen a huge improvement and I will continue to play this deck. I await what BotG brings to simic.
I'm excited as well. If wizards reprints Murkfiend Liege, that would set this deck up to be a house!! I know they wont since they just put it in a commander deck... but one can wish!!
Check out this deck list that took 8th at the STG open over the weekend.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60524
I like the Frilled Oculus in there. I don't have the Jace's, but think it is an absolute need for this deck.
2 Vorel of the Hull Clade
4 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Master Biomancer
3 Fathom Mage
2 Zameck Guildmage
3 Kalonian Hydra
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
4 Dissolve
4 Simic Charm
3 Cyclonic Rift
Lands 22
7 Island
7 Forest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Temple of Mystery
2 Gainsay
2 Ætherling
3 Frostburn Weird
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Horizon Chimera
3 Rapid Hybridization
What do you guys think about my deck ?
I am toying with the idea of putting Master of Waves in, but buying 3 or 4 is a bit expensive for me at the moment.
Sofar i am 25-11 in the practice room with it, destroying all red / black aggro decks and black devotion decks.
Control and G/R devotion give me problems, but haven't seen them enough to test stuff out.
I think if you add MoW you'd be doing too much... I think you're already trying to do too much here without enough lands. Your curve is pretty high and you don't have much of an early game which is why control and GR devotion beat you. I'd run 24 lands at least, even with the dorks and caryatids. 4 Dissolves is a lot as well. I get that you're trying to have the Prophet out by turn 3, then drop a hydra on their turn, but that is gonna be very difficult to make happen.
I'd drop the guildmages at least 1 dissolve and the Fathom Mages and add 4 Experiment one and 2 Bident of Thassa.
There is some really good potential, I just see you as trying to do too much.
I don't even know how good she would be in this shell because she has a 4 mana casting cost.
Kiora's Follower, Courser of Kruphix and the blue fated card are what I could see helping this deck.
Hopefully there is another