If we still had Mutilate or Vampire Nighthawk I'd say Alms Beast is useless. Alms Beast helps you stabilize against aggro decks until you can put out your threats. It's a very real scenario that your opponent will go T1 Cackler T2 Spike Jester T3 Phoenix T4 Exava, all while you're holding two Doom Blades and a Devour Flesh, making things awkward. I would really rather be playing Alms Beast in this scenario instead of Desecration Demon to minimize damage before Blood Baron comes out.
And honestly I don't care they're gaining life if they attack/block it. Once I'm stabilized it doesn't matter how much life they have because I've won.
To be honest, I've cut Desecration Demon after having him locked down by Xenagos's token followed by Domri's drawn Elvish Mystic. He was 11/11 at that point and had done nothing for me.
you're cutting him after one bad matchup? Isn't DD one of the major Baddies in the build? Heroes Downfall that mother and keep on truckin.
Also, you guys completely sold me on Alms Beast. Definitely gonna be in my deck for the aggro match up.
Whats the general consensus on Gray Merchant Of Asphodel? I see a lot of potential but the 5 CMC is a bit much.
Cutting Desecration for that is just silly. Elspeth is in standard, why play him period?
And you're 100% there, Alms Beast vs aggro is awesome, they run out of steam. Sure they gain a life or two, but they're losing threats. Once we are stable, they are done. We can put most folks on a three turn clock fairly easily even with some gained life.
Speaking of aggro, if aggro does become very dominant in the first few weeks I might even consider sideboarding Returned Phalanx. Voice and Lion will stay back in GW decks, all 1-3 drops except Chandra's Phoenix in red based aggro dies when they run into it, and Magma Jet/Shock/Doom Blade don't kill it. Sure it's a defender, but like I've said, once you stabilize against aggro you've basically won.
Speaking of aggro, if aggro does become very dominant in the first few weeks I might even consider sideboarding Returned Phalanx. Voice and Lion will stay back in GW decks, all 1-3 drops except Chandra's Phoenix in red based aggro dies when they run into it, and Magma Jet/Shock/Doom Blade don't kill it. Sure it's a defender, but like I've said, once you stabilize against aggro you've basically won.
Some upside to being defender is they can't get much benefit from threaten effects against it. I might consider this one since my meta often has a lot of red aggro.
Desecration Demon is a bit of a Browbeat. But it's also a Browbeat where there is potentially no bad choice. Desecration Demon + Whip of Erebos does nothing, which can prove fatal, even if your Demon is 11/11 and all ready to eat alive your opponent. He is always chumpblocked when it matters. I was playing 4 Demons and 2 Alms Beast, then a 3/3 split, and I now just play 4 Alms Beast because it actually is a reliable blocker.
Man I see a lot of DD hate. Is he really that chumped? I don't have experience with him which is why I may seem oblivious and why I keep asking.
Is it really more about your meta? Or is he just not going to be a thing in Theros standard?
Does Alms beast & Obzedat / Blood Baron become your big swinger then?
Well, I play 4 Blood Baron and 4 Alms Beast, so I guess they are, yeah. And yeah, he is very easily chumped, especially since most decks that aren't pure control play 20-30 creatures. Or token producers. Or worse: both.
Definitely understandable. How about Obzedaddy? The Whip synergy seems too delicious to pass up.
yea i like to drop 2 of those charms for 2 devour flesh, but other than that I am running the exact same list. just 3 sin collectors and choosing between lifebane and deso demon for which in mb and the other in sb. also I'm not so sure that high priest is so much better than tithe drinker. tithe drinker has 2 power and extort which can be relevant vs. control and unless it's vs. red control than high priest trigger probly won't do anything, so tithe wins in that matchup. destroying planeswalkers in other matchups is nice though. but tithe drinker's lifelink can help mitigate all of our self damage. I think both can be good but down to the meta imo.
I'm using a similar deck , and is controlling the table pretty well.
Aggro: Against aggro when i side high priests, they hold the game till my alms beast come after this is game. Is creature after creature, removal after removal, and underworld connections make a good rotation in my hand.
Control: Thought seize + sin collector + removals means no control to my opponent.
MidRange: With my removals + my creatures means easy game.
The troubles: my trouble is most agains tokens, i see a lot of decks putting tokens and is going pretty hard defeat'em. I tried ratchet bomb, but they putting a lot of tokens that can hold the game. In 4 game I'm winning 2 and losing 2 but against most decks my orzhov is dominant
“there is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.”
― Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings
This is true, we do have a hard time with tokens, Xenagos and Elspeth pretty much shut down our Desecration Demons. Elspeth's board wipe is pretty rough too.
Don't see why Ratchet Bomb can't be in the side against tokens. If Craig Wescoe's Gruul list full of one drops becomes popular, it'll be maindecked even.
Every permanent, including Pack Rat tokens, is black and boosts devotion, which makes your Erebos, Disciples, Gray Merchants, and Nythkos very strong. Lots of tools versus aggro, control, midrange, whatever. Pack Rat is exceptional in the deck, as is the Whip with all the CIP creatures.
I played it tonight at FNM. Went 3-1. I beat RDW which I was most scared of. I lost to White Weenie. It was brutal, basicly didn't get good hands and white removal is really good.
I don't have the time to post my report right now, but all I can say for sure is ADD ELESPETH, SUN'S CHAMPION IN YOUR MAINDECK. SHE WINS GAMES. I tested one copy mainboard and every time she hits the board, I won. I won with her in matches against GB aggro, RG ramp, BUG control, and Big Boros.
I don't have the time to post my report right now, but all I can say for sure is ADD ELESPETH, SUN'S CHAMPION IN YOUR MAINDECK. SHE WINS GAMES. I tested one copy mainboard and every time she hits the board, I won. I won with her in matches against GB aggro, RG ramp, BUG control, and Big Boros.
I was thinking this as well, I feel like our deck really needs her. Sure her board wipe can be bad against ourselves, but we can play into it knowing we have it. The same goes for when the rock was running mutilate.
I was thinking this as well, I feel like our deck really needs her. Sure her board wipe can be bad against ourselves, but we can play into it knowing we have it. The same goes for when the rock was running mutilate.
She's just win more if you already have board presence. You don't have to use the -3 ability. Adding three soldiers on the field every turn when you have a full board forces your opponent into extreme panic mode.
She's just win more if you already have board presence. You don't have to use the -3 ability. Adding three soldiers on the field every turn when you have a full board forces your opponent into extreme panic mode.
It's worth noting that the -3 is very good in the mirror if they have a board presence.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
you're cutting him after one bad matchup? Isn't DD one of the major Baddies in the build? Heroes Downfall that mother and keep on truckin.
Also, you guys completely sold me on Alms Beast. Definitely gonna be in my deck for the aggro match up.
Whats the general consensus on Gray Merchant Of Asphodel? I see a lot of potential but the 5 CMC is a bit much.
And you're 100% there, Alms Beast vs aggro is awesome, they run out of steam. Sure they gain a life or two, but they're losing threats. Once we are stable, they are done. We can put most folks on a three turn clock fairly easily even with some gained life.
It's a meta call. I'm expecting a lot of aggro in the first few weeks so I'm mainboarding him.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Some upside to being defender is they can't get much benefit from threaten effects against it. I might consider this one since my meta often has a lot of red aggro.
Man I see a lot of DD hate. Is he really that chumped? I don't have experience with him which is why I may seem oblivious and why I keep asking.
Is it really more about your meta? Or is he just not going to be a thing in Theros standard?
Does Alms beast & Obzedat / Blood Baron become your big swinger then?
Definitely understandable. How about Obzedaddy? The Whip synergy seems too delicious to pass up.
Do you mind posting your current list?
3 Temple of Silence
12 Swamp
5 Plains
Creatures
4 Lifebane Zombie
2 Sin Collector
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 High Priest of Penance
4 Alms Beast
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Thoughtseize
3 Doomblade
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Orzhov Charm
3 Read the Bones
3 Dark Betrayal
4 Desecration Demons
I am not sure what else to run in the sideboard. I may also go to 3 Sin Collectors and 3 Lifebane Zombies
Aggro: Against aggro when i side high priests, they hold the game till my alms beast come after this is game. Is creature after creature, removal after removal, and underworld connections make a good rotation in my hand.
Control: Thought seize + sin collector + removals means no control to my opponent.
MidRange: With my removals + my creatures means easy game.
The troubles: my trouble is most agains tokens, i see a lot of decks putting tokens and is going pretty hard defeat'em. I tried ratchet bomb, but they putting a lot of tokens that can hold the game. In 4 game I'm winning 2 and losing 2 but against most decks my orzhov is dominant
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/orzhov-control-26-09-13-1/
― Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings
4 Pack Rat
3 High Priest of Penance
4 Sin Collector
3 Disciple of Phenax
3 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Desecration Demon
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Thoughtsieze
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Doom Blade
1 Debt to the Debtless
<25 Lands>
4 Godless Shrine
2 Nythkos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Temple of Silence
6 Plains
9 Swamp
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Lifebane Zombie
1 High Priest of Penance
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Debt to the Debtless
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
Every permanent, including Pack Rat tokens, is black and boosts devotion, which makes your Erebos, Disciples, Gray Merchants, and Nythkos very strong. Lots of tools versus aggro, control, midrange, whatever. Pack Rat is exceptional in the deck, as is the Whip with all the CIP creatures.
Sideboard is kinda preliminary.
Thoughts?
Currently 62/265 cards.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bw-midrange-28-09-13-1/
I played it tonight at FNM. Went 3-1. I beat RDW which I was most scared of. I lost to White Weenie. It was brutal, basicly didn't get good hands and white removal is really good.
Match 1: R/G ramp 2-1
Match 2: White Weenie 0-2
Match 3: Dragon's Maze 2-1
Match 4: RDW 2-1 (Paired up, he was 3-0)
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
I was thinking this as well, I feel like our deck really needs her. Sure her board wipe can be bad against ourselves, but we can play into it knowing we have it. The same goes for when the rock was running mutilate.
She's just win more if you already have board presence. You don't have to use the -3 ability. Adding three soldiers on the field every turn when you have a full board forces your opponent into extreme panic mode.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
It's worth noting that the -3 is very good in the mirror if they have a board presence.
True, unless they have Obzedat blinked out.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles