Omenspeaker - For scrying and that 1/3 makes a good blocker.
Desecration demon - For getting that damage through. Comes in, combat, if opponent sacrifices a creature, it gets bigger for you to whack when your opponent has no creatures.
Thassa, God of the sea - To scry those lands you dont need.
Prognostic Sphinx - Flier, hexproof, scrying. One is probably enough.
Aetherling - Aetherling.
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Uhm 0 loyalty ability for Memory adept, oh you milled a Archangel of thune. Copy and combat. Oh it has hexproof as well.
Ashiok - Aside from the name that means "Feeling good" in a Chinese dialect, not a fantastic card but still gets the job done. For now. Or till we really find that she is as effing useless as what everyone else says.
Jace - Draw, Mil.
Swan song , Dissolve - Box standard counter spell
Doom blade , Hero's downfall - Box standard destroy spell
Curse of the swine - Boros reckoner, pig. God, pig. Anything that doesnt have hexproof is bacon.
Thoughtseize - Discard those pesky non-land cards. Your opponent doesnt need them. Oh and discard that creature, Lazav copies it.
Read the bones - Box standard draw spell.
I've been playing a lot of Dimir over the last two weeks, trying to get some lists off the ground. It's been a little challenging. We're lacking one or two cards that would put us in a real competitive position.
That being said, the list I've got as of right now (9/16/2013) is as follows:
The deck can take wins off of any deck, and I've played pretty much every archetype. I obviously dropped the mill aspect, as it isn't really my type of Magic. I've played somewhere around 30 matches with this deck already, making changes between games. Some things about the deck that might convince you to try it out:
Nightveil Specter: this card is insane. The 3 devotion it gives is incredible for getting a Thassa out (or if you bring Erebos in against a heavy lifegain opponent) is unmatched. You can play a turn 2 Omenspeaker, a turn 3 Specter, then a turn 4 Thassa be a 5/5.
Thassa, God of the Sea: easily made a creature in this deck. The unblockable is very important because this deck will stall out the battlefield while with some draw-go until your opponent draws something nasty off of Duskmantle Seer's Upkeep trigger, and you can swing in for the win with no interaction from them.
Master of Waves: beats red decks. if he resolves and you're getting more than 3-4 elementals they have to deal with him the next turn or they just lose. Pretty sweet card also to deal with a red deck swarm if you can drop it after at nightveil and get 5 blockers for their next combat
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx: I was going to use this guy or Mutavault (obvious synergy with Master of Waves) but I found that having Nykthos out with the easy devotion this deck can get can lead to allowing us to get a much better board state in some situations. Obviously Nykthos is very situational, it's still being thought over.
The deck is really fun and I enjoy it a lot. I feel like the deck has a lot of room for allowing you to outplay your opponent, and the more I play with it the better I get. I feel like this can be competitive, but it wont ever compete with real Tier 1 decks. But I'll play it anyways.
I played a dimir control deck just recently in FNM and yes, the Nightveil Specter got people cursing it after I got their best spell and their lands to play. They don't expect decks like these with cards like these as everyone was expecting tier 1 decks.
Ratchet Bomb and Cyclonic Rift clear counters when you can't find Illness. Dissolve, Syncopate and the obligatory Thoughtseize help stall. Omenspeaker is a wall.
Milling is the win con, basically just to be different. You have enough stalling power to hold up the game for a long time while you build up huge Mind Grinds, tick up Jace, or dig for bombs with Ashiok. You might even get to connect with Mirko Vosk for the first time in your life... but probably not.
My minimal Cockatrice testing suggests this deck is good at annoying people for 12 turns until they finally beat you. But it all feels worthwhile when you turn Niv Mizzet into a sick pig that promptly dies.
I tried it, but giving away 3/3s is a bit much. Rapid Hybridization's strength is that its a combat trick at least as often as its removal. But you dont want to be giving yourself tokens with this deck. It just didn't fit, even though superficially I agree it looks perfect.
Shame, because turning Rakdos into a barfing frog mutant is a thing I want to do.
I like the changes to the OP control deck Ensoleille. I'm curious about the 3x Lazav. He's neat but I've had no luck getting him to trigger reliably in past testing (pre-Theros).
At best he seems like an alternate wincon for a focused mill deck, but yours doesn't have much milling power (rightly so, imo, since milling doesn't seem effective at all compared to dropping an Aetherling).
Hopefully this doesn't count as hijacking your thread, but I've got a related but dissimilar approach to Theros-standard Dimir control. I've been out of tourney-level play for some years, so would love any constructive feedback.
Oriented towards early board & tempo control and no mill at all.
Use early disruption/killers (16 useable by T2), then drops Ashiok, or Nightveil on T3, followed by either the standard Desecration Demon on T4 or two 2cc control spells. Then just need to maintain pressure, which Thassa helps maintain.
Thassa's activated ability is relevant - ups the threat level of the Nightveil, Demon or borrowed threat immensely. Control can't let them both live -
As Thoras mentioned, Nightveil is actually pretty insane. I'm still debating when to take him out... he dies instantly when he hits the board against burn but 3-4 less damage to my dome or Ashiok's is worst case.
Ashiok is a must counter/must kill. Midrange B/W, RBW Mythic or UW control midrange all HAVE to counter or kill it before it activates the second time. Exiling an Ebzedat, BBOV, Prognistic Sphinx on T3 is a serious threat. Not to mention they only run a few, big hitters, enough of those gone and it's game. Her Ultimate really should never come into play unless they are doing some turbo-fog variant.
The Downfalls are intended to be saved for PW if possible - being able to kill a PW before it uses it's ability is huge.
I expect that people will say the Shores and Nykthos are "cute" - but being able to play those spells or activate the abilities turns cute into seriously annoying threat. I'm considering running an extra Steam Vents and Sacred Foundry to be able to add CttR to the list of steal-ables.
The one-of that I expect to get some flack is Glaring Spotlight - but having it in play changes the face of the board. Significantly. I want to run 2, but... yeah.
What is definitely missing is draw - but anything that costs life is unbearable against true agro. Side Erebos in vs control, B/W or Midrange mythic though.
As for Dimir Charm - all three of it's uses are valid. If nothing else, setting up their next draw to what I want them to have is always useful. Not to mention the bonus instant-speed choosing what I'm going to exile with either a Specter or Ashiok.
I tried Time Ebb and Griptide - And while I truly enjoyed bouncing a Purphoros, exiling him and then playing him, they don't measure up at the cc to the more flexible options.
Oddly enough, the single biggest problem card I've had so far is Heliod's Spear. Few enough threats in my deck that I can stall if each only hits them once. Spotlight solves that for a big swing, but otherwise I have to Rift or Ratchet it.
For the record, I don't believe in both Thassa and Ashiok in the same deck.
If you have Ashiok in play, you don't need Thassa because your opponents should then be on the offense, preventing Ashiok from being a threat. You don't need unblockability if your opponent is turning creatures sideways.
I've become a great fan of Omenspeaker with Ashiok. Sure Frostburn makes for a better blocker, but Omenspeaker regulates your draws, helping ensure you get that turn 3 Ashiok for your defensive strategy.
Private Mod Note
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bringing Turbo-Hydra back to Standard...
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund