MTG Salvation

Building a new deck around 4x Kalonian Hydra and 4x Corpsejack Menace 4x Witchstalker 4x Lotleth Troll. Just wanted some input if anyone has tried this and what problems they have come across. Some Theros cards are perfect for this. It actually makes Monstrousity worth it.

I was planning something similar. I would move the Witchstalker to the sideboard and use Scavenging Ooze instead.

Whip of Erebos would work well in this deck, and it makes you feel better about pitching an early Hydra to the troll. I'm also thinking about Bow of Nylea because a Lotleth Troll (or Hydra) with Deathtouch (and/or lifelink) can attack into anything for profit. The bow's ability to add counters has a lot of synergy as well.

I had been hoping there would be a decent two-drop in either black or green to replace Gloom Surgeon, but alas, no such luck. Maybe next set.

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(Maybe Carven Caryatid?)

Quote from Mablung

I was planning something similar. I would move the Witchstalker to the sideboard and use Scavenging Ooze instead.

Whip of Erebos would work well in this deck, and it makes you feel better about pitching an early Hydra to the troll. I'm also thinking about Bow of Nylea because a Lotleth Troll (or Hydra) with Deathtouch (and/or lifelink) can attack into anything for profit. The bow's ability to add counters has a lot of synergy as well.

I had been hoping there would be a decent two-drop in either black or green to replace Gloom Surgeon, but alas, no such luck. Maybe next set.

*
(Maybe Carven Caryatid?)

Scavenging Ooze over Witchstalker for sure. Was considering maybe throwing some blue in as well. Prime Speaker Zegana and Vorel of the Hull Clade might fit nicely.

What about Desecration Demon and throw in some discard to keep them out of the game?

I was considering doing something quite similar. Desecration Demon, Thoughtseize, Scavenging Ooze, Ordeal of Erebos, Witchstalker

Again, this is just some simple thoughts. Nothing concrete yet.

Edit: Kalonian Hydra would be nice. Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord would be a nice finisher. Throw in some mana fixing like Arbor Elf and we might have something.

Quote from cab0747

What about Desecration Demon and throw in some discard to keep them out of the game?

I was considering doing something quite similar. Desecration Demon, Thoughtseize, Scavenging Ooze, Ordeal of Erebos, Witchstalker

Again, this is just some simple thoughts. Nothing concrete yet.

Edit: Kalonian Hydra would be nice. Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord would be a nice finisher. Throw in some mana fixing like Arbor Elf and we might have something.

Desecration Demon would work very well providing some flying support. Never thought of Jared, Golgari Lich Lord but that would be an almost guranteed finisher. Gyre Sage for mana support. Mmmm mmmm good. I'm liking this!

Hmmm, I think Experiment One has a home in here as well. He has a lot of synergy with Kalonian Hydra.

Let's get a deck list started and modify as we go along. Just trying to summarize the ideas of using +1/+1 counters along with a little removal and card draw...

Varolz, the scar striped could see some play here. I love the deck list so far. Time to build her up and test a bit.

Quote from Flagg

Let's get a deck list started and modify as we go along. Just trying to summarize the ideas of using +1/+1 counters along with a little removal and card draw...

Gnarles's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Experiment One 4 Sylvan Caryatid 3 Scavenging Ooze 3 Lotleth Troll 3 Desecration Demon 4 Corpsejack Menace 3 Kalonian Hydra	Spells 2 Abrupt Decay 3 Doomblade 2 Putrefy 2 Read the Bones Land 10 Forest 9 Swamp 4 Overgrown Tomb	Sideboard 4 Thoughtseize 4 Naturalize 4 Witchstalker 3 Mistcutter Hydra

I love the idea of this deck and I have never played BG in standard before. This looks promising.

28 creatures is VERY heavy. I would consider cutting this number down and adding in more disruption. My suggestions are below:

-3 Lotleth Troll - I don't like this guy much. This gives our opponent card advantage. He plays nice with Varolz, the Scar-Striped but I don't think his benefits are worth the card disadvantage.

-2 Corpsejack Menace - I like it! doubling counters is great. However, I dont think he is a 4-of in our 75.

Now, with our creature count down to 22, let's add some disruption!

+4 Thoughtseize - I love this card for early game disruption and information. The discard is what everyone looks at, but the information in the early game is key. I know the life-loss (along with Read the Bones and shock-lands) isnt ideal, but I have an idea to counter that...

+1-2 Bow of Nylea - A watered down Umezawa's Jitte. Our creatures have deathtouch (making Cackler and Experiment viable late-game), we get +1/+1 counters (woohoo!!), spot removal of pesky creatures, and life if we need it! I really like this card.

Let me know what you all think of these ideas.

Here's my first draft at something along these lines.



I didn't really calculate out the mana base; I assume it'd shift somewhat.

Seems like Supreme Verdict and Anger of the Gods are going to be pretty big, so I think Thoughtsieze/Golgari Charm main are a good plan to deal with them. Also helps that Experiment One, Lotleth Troll and Varolz, the Scar Striped all have regeneration too if need be.

A couple Whip of Erebos might be correct if we're going all in on the GY abuse plan. Althought that might be better suited for BUG, dropping some of the aggro cards and getting some more mill happening.

I don't think you want to focus TOO much on the +1/+1 counters; things like Corpsejack Menace feel a bit too win-more.

I assume the sideboard would round out the removal suite to bring in answers to whatever problems we might be facing. The rest of the set of Golgari Charm might help against some of the aggro decks with lots of X/1s. Fade into Antiquity as an additional answer to any of the gods that you run into? Lifebane Zombie against any of the decks that fall into the Naya spectrum.

Quote from rmstephens

Here's my first draft at something along these lines.

Flagg's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 Deathrite Shaman 4 Experiment One 3 Lotleth Troll 3 Scavening Ooze 4 Dreg Mangler 3 Varolz, the Scar Striped 2 Kalonian Hydra	4 Thoughtseize 4 Grisly Salvage 2 Golgari Charm 3 Doom Blade	4 Overgrown Tombs 10 Forest 10 Swamp

I didn't really calculate out the mana base; I assume it'd shift somewhat.

Seems like Supreme Verdict and Anger of the Gods are going to be pretty big, so I think Thoughtsieze/Golgari Charm main are a good plan to deal with them. Also helps that Experiment One, Lotleth Troll and Varolz, the Scar Striped all have regeneration too if need be.

A couple Whip of Erebos might be correct if we're going all in on the GY abuse plan. Althought that might be better suited for BUG, dropping some of the aggro cards and getting some more mill happening.

I don't think you want to focus TOO much on the +1/+1 counters; things like Corpsejack Menace feel a bit too win-more.

I assume the sideboard would round out the removal suite to bring in answers to whatever problems we might be facing. The rest of the set of Golgari Charm might help against some of the aggro decks with lots of X/1s. Fade into Antiquity as an additional answer to any of the gods that you run into? Lifebane Zombie against any of the decks that fall into the Naya spectrum.

Fair enough. I think I just get overly excited thinking of turn 3 Corpsejack Menace with acceleration from Sylvan Caryatid (or Elvish Mystic if you wanted to go that way) and then turn 4 Kalonian Hydra. On turn 5 you attack with a 24/24 trampler which is game over if your opponent doesn't remove either of them.

But I agree the deck list above is more balanced. I think regeneration from Experiment One, Varolz, the Scar-Striped and Lotleth Troll, and especially Golgari Charm are going to be important with Anger of the Gods likely to see a lot of play.

Quote from cab0747

I love the idea of this deck and I have never played BG in standard before. This looks promising.

28 creatures is VERY heavy. I would consider cutting this number down and adding in more disruption. My suggestions are below:

-3 Lotleth Troll - I don't like this guy much. This gives our opponent card advantage. He plays nice with Varolz, the Scar-Striped but I don't think his benefits are worth the card disadvantage.

-2 Corpsejack Menace - I like it! doubling counters is great. However, I dont think he is a 4-of in our 75.

Now, with our creature count down to 22, let's add some disruption!

+4 Thoughtseize - I love this card for early game disruption and information. The discard is what everyone looks at, but the information in the early game is key. I know the life-loss (along with Read the Bones and shock-lands) isnt ideal, but I have an idea to counter that...

+1-2 Bow of Nylea - A watered down Umezawa's Jitte. Our creatures have deathtouch (making Cackler and Experiment viable late-game), we get +1/+1 counters (woohoo!!), spot removal of pesky creatures, and life if we need it! I really like this card.

Let me know what you all think of these ideas.

You're exactly right about my fear of life loss with Thoughtseize and Read the Bones and the shock lands. But I won't deny for second the power of Thoughtseize. Amazing card.

Maybe Grisly Salvage as rmstephens mentioned instead of Read the Bones?

Also, Golgari Charm probably deserves a couple of slots mainly for regeneration if the only regen creature we are running is Experiment One.

I get this feeling that Anger of the Gods is going to see a lot of play even with the 1RR CMC.

Quote from cab0747

I love the idea of this deck and I have never played BG in standard before. This looks promising.

28 creatures is VERY heavy. I would consider cutting this number down and adding in more disruption. My suggestions are below:

-3 Lotleth Troll - I don't like this guy much. This gives our opponent card advantage. He plays nice with Varolz, the Scar-Striped but I don't think his benefits are worth the card disadvantage.

-2 Corpsejack Menace - I like it! doubling counters is great. However, I dont think he is a 4-of in our 75.

Now, with our creature count down to 22, let's add some disruption!

+4 Thoughtseize - I love this card for early game disruption and information. The discard is what everyone looks at, but the information in the early game is key. I know the life-loss (along with Read the Bones and shock-lands) isnt ideal, but I have an idea to counter that...

+1-2 Bow of Nylea - A watered down Umezawa's Jitte. Our creatures have deathtouch (making Cackler and Experiment viable late-game), we get +1/+1 counters (woohoo!!), spot removal of pesky creatures, and life if we need it! I really like this card.

Let me know what you all think of these ideas.

Let me disagree sir ,

First , loleth is a MUST! He regenerates , have trample and have sinergy with the deck cards. You can discard for the Ooze , you can discard the mangler and its ok.

The corpsejack is the card that make the deck what it is...give you the burst!And works with every single card!

I would take out the crackler .

Take out the doom blades for putrefys , and put some golgaris charms. After theros , enchantments would be a thing.

You gonna need grilsy savage , maybe 2 commune with gods. And deathrite shaman !

Im with a deck similar to this , and gravecrawler is insane. Maybe after rotation i will put slitherhead ( a meeh card , but have sinergy : / )

Have you consider trying this BUG colors for Vorel of the Hull Clade and Bioshift?

Quote from Uncle Isty

Have you consider trying this BUG colors for Vorel of the Hull Clade and Bioshift?

If I was going BUG it'd be for Master Biomancer. Vorel seems a bit too win-more, and Bioshift is a little too weak I think.

I have been testing this casually this week with very good results against Mono Green, G/W Tokens, and Gruul aggro. Have not yet had the chance to play against any control decks. Looking for any suggestions before FNM this week. Once Theros is out this list will change a good deal. Any suggestions there would be appreciated.

What about Gyre Sage and Renegade Krasis? Experiment One -> Gyre Sage -> Renegade Krasis -> Corpsejack Menace -> Kalonian Hydra seems pretty rad to me, though a bit magical christmas land. A turn two Gyre Sage can also power out a turn 4 Kalonian Hydra while also being a beatstick along the way. Lotleth Troll, Rakdos Cackler, Scavenging Ooze, and Varolz, the Scar-Striped seem worthwhile to flesh out the creature curve. I enjoy the fact that so many of the creatures have regenerate. Black gives us gas in the form of the very splash-able Read the Bones, as well as disruption with Thoughtseize and Duress and plenty of removal options: Doom Blade, Abrupt Decay, Putrefy, Hero's Downfall to name a few.

I think I would start with something along these lines:



The sideboard would probably be a mix of different removal, Duress, and probably some mix of Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze in order to potentially gain some life in creature mirrors and hate any graveyard decks that might pop up. My only qualm is whether the complete +1/+1 counter synergy with Corpsejack Menace is really worth it and it shouldn't just be four Reaper of the Wilds, especially since it sorta goes with the theme of hard to kill creatures here.

Reaper of the Wilds is definitely something to consider.

My concern with Whip of Erebos is that we're already going to be removing a lot of the creatures in our graveyard with Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, and Scavange via Varolz, the Scar-Striped such that there likely wouldn't be much to reanimate.

Seems to me that a card like Gyre Sage is going to be a little slower to make mana than we'd like. If we were ramping into cards that cost >5 than it might be worth it. Also sets back our mana development quite a bit if we get hit by some sort of wrath.

I think Renegade Krasis may be a bit of a trap. With the creatures in the deck, you're unlikely to evolve him more than once.

Everything has or could get counters, which interacts with Kalonian Hydra, drop some fat creatures to pump gyre sage, double them with Kalonian Hydra, drop a huge Mistcutter Hydra and then double those counters with Kalonian Hydra, Nylea to give everything trample, and some removal for control. Also the Reaper of the Wild could be great here as he works well with removal and pairs well with Desecration Demon. I was thinking about this the other day and I think it's brilliant.

I've been playing a list very close to what you are talking about the past couple FNMs and on Magic-League. My losses so far are to Azorious Control, Jund, Maze's End (Fog) and one against Selesnya where I mostly died to mana screw.




Lotleth Troll is amazing against sweepers and I've had a single troll stomp a mono red deck. He has tons of synergy with Ooze and is very hard to deal with with most of the removal currently being used. At worst he can chump block infinitely.
Renegade krasis has been insane for me and usually, evolving him once is enough to win the game. I am thinking the meta post rotation will have fewer targets for lifebane zombie so he may be relegated to the board in favor of witchstalkers, hydras, or possibly Nylea as trample would be very relevant in this deck. The removal suite takes care of everything we really care about as everything it dosn't touch, our creatures will usually just outclass. The Stomping Grounds are there just to have a higher chance of being able to cast a turn 1 cackler.

Quote from Voltage

I've been playing a list very close to what you are talking about the past couple FNMs and on Magic-League. My losses so far are to Azorious Control, Jund, Maze's End (Fog) and one against Selesnya where I mostly died to mana screw.

huskerniq's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 Experiment One 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Lotleth Troll 4 Scavenging Ooze 4 Renegade Krasis 2 Witchstalker 2 Lifebane Zombie 4 Corpsejack Menace 2 Kalonian Hydra 4 Putrify 3 Abrupt Decay	4 Overgrown Tomb 4 Stomping Grounds 2 Golgari Guildgate 5 Forest 8 Swamp

Lotleth Troll is amazing against sweepers and I've had a single troll stomp a mono red deck. He has tons of synergy with Ooze and is very hard to deal with with most of the removal currently being used. At worst he can chump block infinitely.
Renegade krasis has been insane for me and usually, evolving him once is enough to win the game. I am thinking the meta post rotation will have fewer targets for lifebane zombie so he may be relegated to the board in favor of witchstalkers, hydras, or possibly Nylea as trample would be very relevant in this deck. The removal suite takes care of everything we really care about as everything it dosn't touch, our creatures will usually just outclass. The Stomping Grounds are there just to have a higher chance of being able to cast a turn 1 cackler.

I would consider a couple Golgari Charm. Maybe 2 more Witchstalker in the SB.

No one is considering , Ordeal of nylea or reverent hunter?

Yeah, I need to find 2 more witchstalkers. I had golgari charm in the board. I'm not a big fan of Ordeal and reverent hunter will be hit or miss. The worst part about him IMO is that in order for him to be better than witchstalker's body on turn 3, you have to have a specific draw and be winning. At least the gods have other uses as well.

Hey guys,

I just started working on a GB counters decklist today and was hoping there'd be a thread on here of people also thinking about it!

Without having read anything previously this was the list I more or less settled on - although obviously a draft subject to testing and seeing what the main contenders are in the format:



I also considered cards like deathrite shaman, rakdos cackler, kalonian hydra, polukranos, lifebane zombie, arbor colossus, reaper of the wild, and reverent hunter.

The obvious things the deck probably needs to deal with are anger the gods / supreme verdict, azorius charm, and control/burn in general. You can also imagine selesnya goodstuff / midrange.

E1: Seems like an auto 4 of in just about any list

Scavenging Ooze: Not sure if we want 4, once you've used up the gas on 1 drawing extras gets a little worse. A hand with 3 of these would kind of suck.

Lotleth Troll: Has the history of underperforming although he does synergize with ooze. Requires card disadvantage to get his counters going - regen is important though vs anger/verdict.

Gyre Sage: a single tick and we've got a 2 mana 2/3 with upside. Its got some synergy with monstrous guys if we go there. I think this fights with the troll for a 2-drop spot.

Renegade Krasis: The impact of curving E1-Sage-Krasis-Corpsejack is pretty hilariously awesome.

dreg mangler: a scavenger to give value if we get wrathed, surprise dmg, evolves e1 sage and krasis

varolz: iffy. kind of non-bo with oozes

corpsejack: the main reason we're here. doubling up evolves and oozes

demon: debatable if this fits. it technically gets counters and is just plain good. Provides a 6 P/T for evolves if that should ever matter (krasis?)

Polukranos: obviously for monstrous, which gives an outlet should we get 2-3 counters on the gyre sage.

Thoughtsieze/Duress: we need to get rid of those supreme verdicts

Golgari charm: we need to answer those verdicts

Grisly Salvage: Seems like valuable CA if we dump some creatures for our oozes? This is probably the card most on the chopping block

Abrupt decay/Putrefy: does abrupt decay have a place? Are we going to see many creatures at 3 or less (reckoner etc) what about other permanents like det-sphere?

Vraska: random 1-of to answer stuff

Hi, i've been messing around with a similar idea for weeks. here's my 2p.
i also started with the idea of abusing counters and had originally 3 corpsejack menace in my list. sure if you manage to pull it off it's great, but it's a bit too cute.
i have to say i hadn't consider the lotleth troll + whip of erebos "combo". so far i've found really useful to use bow of nylea, not just for the deathtouch+trample combination which is amazing but also for getting a bit of life back that we loose with overgrown tomb, thoutsize and underworld connections. plus you can use it to reshuffle in the deck the creatures you discarded to the troll.
golgari charm is really useful, it's a creatures deck, regenerate all it's very relevant as it's destroy target enchantment

taking on some of the interesting things i've read in this thread the build i'm going to test now is this: