The goal of the deck is the hyper aggressive. It uses Mystics to ramp, and BTEs to not only chain but increase our devotion for Nykthos. Ogre Battledrivers are there to give our Hydras haste, and the Ghor-clans help give that extra boost of damage. The Mizziums can be used as spot removal or to wipe their creatures, and the Strikes are useful as spot removal or to just burn for the win.
I'm not dead-set on a sideboard yet, but I'm looking pretty hard at a few cards and even considering some for mainboard. Madcap Skills - A great little enchantment that basically makes its creature unblockable. The boost in damage is nothing to scoff at, so this is one I'm pretty set on for sideboard if not replacing Ghor-clan in mainboard. Alpha Authority The part of the card that requires its creature to be blocked by two or LESS creatures is an added bonus, I suppose it could keep a weenie deck for mass-blocking and killing. Where this card really shines though is that it gives its creature hexproof. Definitely looking at 4 in my sideboard against heavy removal decks. Magma Jet Not as much damage as Lightning Strike, but the scry 2 can prove game-saving when you really need a certain card. A possible 3 or 4 of in the sideboard to replace Lightning Strikes against a weenie deck. Savage Summoning This card pretty much explains itself. Great against control decks. Get a creature out with this, then play Alpha Authority on it, and watch as they fumble around trying to deal with it.
Domri Rade just goes too well with Xenagos to not use them together. The scry lands I've found to be too slow. I never have color problems. I'll probably put Destructive Revelry in my sideboard though.
I recomend posting in the "Established Competitive" forum or another one of the many many G/R aggro deck threads already. It will create better discussion and a more free exchange of ideas which will lead to better decks.
Bte is a trap because he tricks you into playing an inconsequential card that doesn't grant card advantage. He is good with certain card combos and aggro but he is very limited other then that. I feel comparing a 2/2 vanilla that doesn't actually mana ramp with a 0/3 defender hexproof that taps for all colors is rather... silly.
Also bte belongs in aggro decks where you get value and bodies not in midrange decks With numerous 4 and 5 drops.
I recomend posting in the "Established Competitive" forum or another one of the many many G/R aggro deck threads already. It will create better discussion and a more free exchange of ideas which will lead to better decks.
Also, imo, battledriver doesn't deserve a spot.
Thanks. I agree that Ogre Battledriver needs to be replaced. Maybe with Anger of the Gods or the WorldEater.
I still like BTE. He has another upside of pumping up both red and green devotion for Nykthos.
What do you guys think? I put Magma Jet in the MB instead of Lightning Strike, swapped in Boon Satyrs to help round out my curve, and tossed in two Anger of the Gods for wiping their board.
I kinda went a different direction than anyone else has. I think mine has a little more fuel in the later game, while still having value in the turns before.
I am pretty damn sure you don't even understand words you have just wrote, don't you? You just wanted to sound smart. It didn't worked well.
Also, this thread is about RDW and Gruul Deck Wins. Those decks are considered to be a core of Aggro archetype.
Wow I hope your not serious. But I'll reply to your well thought out critique.
First good job on the insults and name calling when all I did was state an opinion to which I might add you didn't explain why I was wrong.
And for your statement that this thread is about aggro and red/green deck wins I regret to inform you that 3 lists that include dragons hydras and planeswalkers are not aggro decks or Rdw archetype decks.
Also insulting someone's intelligence with statements like it didn't worked well. And those decks are considered core aggro archetype doesn't make you sound very smart. Oh and the classic you don't even understand words you just wrote.
Anyways my point with bte is this. He is good with other good 2 drops so you can force through more damage with a free 2/2 body. In a midrange deck which is what every one of these lists are, a vanilla 2/2 is not exactly wow factor. He doesn't offer lasting ramp such as the sylvan offers. He doesnt mana fix. He is good when played as a 2/2 on turn 2 and only then when you have a free spell to play afterwards. The sylvan in turn enables t3 dragons and hydras.
If you still disagree I'd like to hear why I'm wrong instead of baseless insults and name calling. Thank you.
And if anyone has any comments on my decklist id like to hear them.
I put Destructive Revelry in MB due to the sheer number of enchantments, bestow creatures, and artifacts in the format now. I'm only using 2 Scry Lands as I thought that was a good balance between scrying and sacrificing speed. I switched back to Ogre Battledriver over Hammer of purpheros because he interacts well with Domri. Arbor Colossus is there to handle flying creatures.
Questions:
Should I increase Mizzium Mortars to 4 and decrease Magma Jet to 2? While the scrying is nice, I feel that Mizzium Mortars is an important removal tool and even a field-wiper if needed.
Arbor Colossus vs Boon Satyr? I've been going back and forth of this one. On one hand, Arbor Colossus is HUGE, can block fliers, and its monstrous can outright kill them, but he IS triple-green. On the other hand, Boon Satyrcan be played as a 4/2 flash for 3, or use his modestly-costed bestow for 5. (just think about bestowing on a Dragon or Hydra) On the gripping hand, Boon Satyr dies to everything when a creature. (Magma Jet, Lightning Strike, Shock, Mizzium Mortars are all things that won't even faze Arbor Colossus.)
to the people who say "BTE over Sylvian" or visa versa, i say: Why not both! BTE INTO Sylvian gets good ramp for Nykthos and still suplies a posible Turn 3 dragon or hyrda. Dork into nykthos into BTE BTE gives you turn two dragon or hyrda, by the way
Why? Because t1 land elvish mystic t2 land bte into sylvan. You now have 3 cards in hands 2 ramp creatures and a vanilla 2/2. I'd rather have the 2 rampers and 4 cards in hand. This is why bte does not grant card advantage. And the sylvan can block bte.
Anyways mystic into sylvan into xenagos with 8+ mana on t4? That's the deck I'd like to play. I am hating on bte because in a deck like this I'd simply rather have better creatures. I'd rather have another hydra or a dragon than no card in hand and a 2/2 on the field. My opinion.
I've been practicing on Cockatrice like crazy. This latest build can RARELY beat control, but I lose most of the timee in that matchup.
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Kalonian Hydra
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Domri Rade
4 Stomping Ground
8 Mountain
8 Forest
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Temple of Abandon
2 Ogre Battledriver
4 Boon Satyr
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Lightning Strike
SB: 3 Alpha Authority
SB: 2 Madcap Skills
SB: 3 Savage Summoning
SB: 2 Anger of the Gods
SB: 3 Mistcutter Hydra
SB: 2 Destructive Revelry
Against control I usually swap out World Eater x2, Kalonian x3, and Mizzium Mortars x3 for Mistcutter x3, Destructive Revelry x2, and Alpha Authority x3.
Any suggestions for me?
No problem man I enjoy helping people and imparting what knowledge I have :P. I'm glad I could help. There are so many good cards in standard now that it is astonishing how many cards are considered unplayable. Rubblebelt Raiders, Wrecking Ogre, and Kalonian Tusker could have all seen play in another standard and been worth considerably more than they are. Of these Rubblebelt Raiders has the most potential I think because of his interactions with Kalonian Hydra. I think R/G counters could be an entire Sub-genre of R/G decks. Rakdos Cackler is a very nice 1 drop for early pressure and it can grow. So I think your deck definitely has some potential, and I always enjoy helping people realize the vision of the deck they wish to play. I'm also happy to hear that you've had success with the deck as it stands. People can build decks all day, but if they can't pilot them or play very well it will still get them nowhere. So Kudos to you for winning with a deck that is worth maybe 50 dollars. That's no easy feat, depending of course on your meta. But at the end of the day it's all about having fun win or lose :P.
@Valicious At the top of your message bar there is an option for wrapping card or deck tags around a list. In this case you should go to edit, highlight the deck and click the wrap deck tags button, It will make your list pop up in a nice little window with links to all the cards.
Hmm In your deck I don't think Ogre battledriver deserves a slot. I would also consider swapping 4 boon satyrs for 4 mistcutters mainboard, or at least a split. I would also recommend swapping in Savage Summoning against control.
Also what kind of control? U/W? W/B? Mono B? Esper? U/B maybe? Without knowing which colors your having trouble with, or what spells in particular give you a headache I can't be too much help.
Of course our blue hate lies in Savage Summoning and Mistcutter Hydra. Our White hate is in Stormbreath dragon, and we don't have many answers to black, such as a really good regeneration creature. Maybe speed up your decks clock a bit and try to win faster?
Also I'm not a huge fan of World Eater mainboard, especially seeing as how your siding him out. In red we have better board wipes, and in green we have better hydras. Although to be fair he is the only combination of both we have.
So anyways if you were considering cards to cut, imo start with
Consider mainboarding more Mistcutter Hydras and bump up your Kalonians to 4. Other than that I'm unsure without more match information. Maybe you need more burn. Maybe more early game.
Why? Because t1 land elvish mystic t2 land bte into sylvan. You now have 3 cards in hands 2 ramp creatures and a vanilla 2/2. I'd rather have the 2 rampers and 4 cards in hand. This is why bte does not grant card advantage. And the sylvan can block bte.
Anyways mystic into sylvan into xenagos with 8+ mana on t4? That's the deck I'd like to play. I am hating on bte because in a deck like this I'd simply rather have better creatures. I'd rather have another hydra or a dragon than no card in hand and a 2/2 on the field. My opinion.
I agree with everything you said in this thread. If Lighning Mauler or Flinthoof Boar were still standard legal, then I could see BTE being more viable in a deck like this. I believe that in this kind of deck you are racing to get Stormbreath Dragon down and monstrous ASAP. BTE just doesn't help in this way.
The main reason I'd run BTE in a deck like this is to help with devotion.
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4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 kalonian hyda
4 elvish mystic
4 ghor-clan rampager
4 burning-tree emissary
4 ogre battledriver
4 Lightning Strike
4 Sorceries
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Planeswalkers
2 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, The Reveler
7 Forest
10 Mountain
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Stomping Ground
The goal of the deck is the hyper aggressive. It uses Mystics to ramp, and BTEs to not only chain but increase our devotion for Nykthos. Ogre Battledrivers are there to give our Hydras haste, and the Ghor-clans help give that extra boost of damage. The Mizziums can be used as spot removal or to wipe their creatures, and the Strikes are useful as spot removal or to just burn for the win.
I'm not dead-set on a sideboard yet, but I'm looking pretty hard at a few cards and even considering some for mainboard.
Madcap Skills - A great little enchantment that basically makes its creature unblockable. The boost in damage is nothing to scoff at, so this is one I'm pretty set on for sideboard if not replacing Ghor-clan in mainboard.
Alpha Authority The part of the card that requires its creature to be blocked by two or LESS creatures is an added bonus, I suppose it could keep a weenie deck for mass-blocking and killing. Where this card really shines though is that it gives its creature hexproof. Definitely looking at 4 in my sideboard against heavy removal decks.
Magma Jet Not as much damage as Lightning Strike, but the scry 2 can prove game-saving when you really need a certain card. A possible 3 or 4 of in the sideboard to replace Lightning Strikes against a weenie deck.
Savage Summoning This card pretty much explains itself. Great against control decks. Get a creature out with this, then play Alpha Authority on it, and watch as they fumble around trying to deal with it.
Thoughts? Critiques? Get-off-my-Magic-lawn rants?
4x elvish mystic
4x young pyromancer
4x burning-tree emissary
4x Chandra's Phoenix
4x ghor-clan rampager
4x stormbreath dragon
Planeswalkers:
2x Xenagos, the reveler
2x Chandra, pyromaster
4x shock
4x magma jet
4x mizzium mortars
Lands
4x stomping ground
4x temple of abandon
6x mountain
4x forest
2x mutavault
3x burning-earth
3x annahating fire
3x scavenging ooze
3x lightning strike
3x destructive revelry
2 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos the Reveler
Creatures 23
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 kalonian Hydra
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Boon Satyr
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Magma Jet
Enchantments 2
2 Primeval Bounty
Land 23
9 Forest
7 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Oh burning tree emissary is a trap don't run it.
My Trading Post
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=226506
How the heck is BTE a trap?
Also, imo, battledriver doesn't deserve a spot.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Also bte belongs in aggro decks where you get value and bodies not in midrange decks With numerous 4 and 5 drops.
Just my opinion.
Also I'll repost this list over there Thank you
My Trading Post
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=226506
Thanks. I agree that Ogre Battledriver needs to be replaced. Maybe with Anger of the Gods or the WorldEater.
I still like BTE. He has another upside of pumping up both red and green devotion for Nykthos.
2 Kalonian Hydra
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Domri Rade
4 Stomping Ground
4 Elvish Mystic
10 Mountain
7 Forest
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Boon Satyr
4 Magma Jet
What do you guys think? I put Magma Jet in the MB instead of Lightning Strike, swapped in Boon Satyrs to help round out my curve, and tossed in two Anger of the Gods for wiping their board.
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Ogre Battledriver
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Skylasher
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Zhur-Taa Druid
3 Magma Jet
//Planeswalker (6)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Domri Rade
1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
//Land (22)
7 Forest
7 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
Thoughts?
Wow I hope your not serious. But I'll reply to your well thought out critique.
First good job on the insults and name calling when all I did was state an opinion to which I might add you didn't explain why I was wrong.
And for your statement that this thread is about aggro and red/green deck wins I regret to inform you that 3 lists that include dragons hydras and planeswalkers are not aggro decks or Rdw archetype decks.
Also insulting someone's intelligence with statements like it didn't worked well. And those decks are considered core aggro archetype doesn't make you sound very smart. Oh and the classic you don't even understand words you just wrote.
Anyways my point with bte is this. He is good with other good 2 drops so you can force through more damage with a free 2/2 body. In a midrange deck which is what every one of these lists are, a vanilla 2/2 is not exactly wow factor. He doesn't offer lasting ramp such as the sylvan offers. He doesnt mana fix. He is good when played as a 2/2 on turn 2 and only then when you have a free spell to play afterwards. The sylvan in turn enables t3 dragons and hydras.
If you still disagree I'd like to hear why I'm wrong instead of baseless insults and name calling. Thank you.
And if anyone has any comments on my decklist id like to hear them.
My Trading Post
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=226506
4 Arbor Colossus
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Kalonian Hydra
2 Ogre Battledriver
2 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
6 Instants
2 Destructive Revelry
4 Magma Jet
2 Sorcery
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Planeswalkers
2 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
24 Land
8 Forest
8 Mountain
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Stomping Ground
2 Temple of Abandon
I put Destructive Revelry in MB due to the sheer number of enchantments, bestow creatures, and artifacts in the format now. I'm only using 2 Scry Lands as I thought that was a good balance between scrying and sacrificing speed. I switched back to Ogre Battledriver over Hammer of purpheros because he interacts well with Domri. Arbor Colossus is there to handle flying creatures.
Questions:
Should I increase Mizzium Mortars to 4 and decrease Magma Jet to 2? While the scrying is nice, I feel that Mizzium Mortars is an important removal tool and even a field-wiper if needed.
Arbor Colossus vs Boon Satyr? I've been going back and forth of this one. On one hand, Arbor Colossus is HUGE, can block fliers, and its monstrous can outright kill them, but he IS triple-green. On the other hand, Boon Satyrcan be played as a 4/2 flash for 3, or use his modestly-costed bestow for 5. (just think about bestowing on a Dragon or Hydra) On the gripping hand, Boon Satyr dies to everything when a creature. (Magma Jet, Lightning Strike, Shock, Mizzium Mortars are all things that won't even faze Arbor Colossus.)
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Anyways mystic into sylvan into xenagos with 8+ mana on t4? That's the deck I'd like to play. I am hating on bte because in a deck like this I'd simply rather have better creatures. I'd rather have another hydra or a dragon than no card in hand and a 2/2 on the field. My opinion.
My Trading Post
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=226506
2 Zhur-taa Druids
2 Wrecking Ogre
3 Kalonian Tusker
3 Zhur-taa Swine
As well as these changes
-4 Spire Tracker
+4 Elvish Mystic
-4 Burning-Tree Emmisary
+4 Sylvan Carytid
Cut these for these-
-2 Wrecking Ogre
+2 Xenagos, the Reveler
-2 Zhur-taa Druid
+2 Domri Rade
-3 Kalonian Tusker
-3 Zhur-taa Swine
+6 in any combination of
And personally
-2 Enlarge
+2 Mizzium Mortars
Other thoughts: With Rubblebelt Raidersand Rakdos Cackler you probably want to capitalize on Kalonian Hydra for the doubling season effect. Other cards to consider would be Savageborn Hydra and Mistborn Hydra for a heavy counters theme. Although that might be a bit win-more.
I think with this deck you will see more consistency, while still being very aggresive with 1 drops and 2 drops.
My Trading Post
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=226506
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Kalonian Hydra
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Domri Rade
4 Stomping Ground
8 Mountain
8 Forest
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Temple of Abandon
2 Ogre Battledriver
4 Boon Satyr
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Lightning Strike
SB: 3 Alpha Authority
SB: 2 Madcap Skills
SB: 3 Savage Summoning
SB: 2 Anger of the Gods
SB: 3 Mistcutter Hydra
SB: 2 Destructive Revelry
Against control I usually swap out World Eater x2, Kalonian x3, and Mizzium Mortars x3 for Mistcutter x3, Destructive Revelry x2, and Alpha Authority x3.
Any suggestions for me?
@Valicious At the top of your message bar there is an option for wrapping card or deck tags around a list. In this case you should go to edit, highlight the deck and click the wrap deck tags button, It will make your list pop up in a nice little window with links to all the cards.
Hmm In your deck I don't think Ogre battledriver deserves a slot. I would also consider swapping 4 boon satyrs for 4 mistcutters mainboard, or at least a split. I would also recommend swapping in Savage Summoning against control.
Also what kind of control? U/W? W/B? Mono B? Esper? U/B maybe? Without knowing which colors your having trouble with, or what spells in particular give you a headache I can't be too much help.
Of course our blue hate lies in Savage Summoning and Mistcutter Hydra. Our White hate is in Stormbreath dragon, and we don't have many answers to black, such as a really good regeneration creature. Maybe speed up your decks clock a bit and try to win faster?
Also I'm not a huge fan of World Eater mainboard, especially seeing as how your siding him out. In red we have better board wipes, and in green we have better hydras. Although to be fair he is the only combination of both we have.
So anyways if you were considering cards to cut, imo start with
Consider mainboarding more Mistcutter Hydras and bump up your Kalonians to 4. Other than that I'm unsure without more match information. Maybe you need more burn. Maybe more early game.
My Trading Post
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=226506
I agree with everything you said in this thread. If Lighning Mauler or Flinthoof Boar were still standard legal, then I could see BTE being more viable in a deck like this. I believe that in this kind of deck you are racing to get Stormbreath Dragon down and monstrous ASAP. BTE just doesn't help in this way.
The main reason I'd run BTE in a deck like this is to help with devotion.