(snip)....doesn't need support to be good. Purphoros in most situations will simply be a win more, but I can see it winning games you could not do with the current configuration of RDW. People also forget purphoros will sometimes be a mulligan, if I have all burn spells and a 1 drop what is purphoros doing?
This is what I have come to think of about the gods. I got my son 2 Nylea for his RG deck and the whole time the thought of it being a creature is secondary to the effect they can provide. In his case, trample is what he needs. Purphoros if you can get him out and start dropping the critters whether through token generation or playing cheap ones there is is main value. His biggest value is through being a sort of(lord help the wrath I will get from this comparison) Shrine of Burning Rage. You do direct damage to the opponent for each creature you play, a nice damage boost for the typical Red style of deck.
Turning him into a creature won't be hard as the format will probably slow, but we can't rely on that. So I think the way we need to start looking at the god's are their benefit to us first and creature second.
Not a great card and definately overrated so far as all gods are. It's not bad but doesn't fit too well, RDW tends to dump his hand before he get's played making him a win-more card or a weak pandemonium of sorts. He is better in a more slower version of red focussed on reckoner and more high end cards but that isn't a very good deck i think
If you're trying to use Purphoros to win a fast game, it won't work. He's not Hellrider. His main strength is actually the ETB-shock-you effect, so while he provides some reach to quick decks he's best when matches drag out into attrition wars, which isn't really RDW's style.
I don't think gods will ever attack that often, but that may just be down to me not playing enough matches of the format.
Of course he is overrated - he is a new card that is difficult to evaluate, has a new mechanic, and cannot be compared to existing cards.
Where have I seen that before? Oh yeah, pretty much every Planeswalker ever. Some of them have been huge hits, some huge misses (Nissa, Tibalt) and most have been solid but unspectacular role players.
I playtested against the card a couple times. They were on Moro-red with 3 main deck. I lost every game it hit t4, because unless they had an empty hand or I was stonewalling creatures, the static ability would just get there, and half the time he was a 6/5 beater. He is insane. Not overrated. I hate this card.
It'll be interesting to see how he fits in this meta. My opinion on this card:
Aggro - Too slow for aggro, even RDW. It looks good, but probably won't get there.
Control - Doesn't seem very control-ish. His abilities rely on playing creatures, which isn't something control decks do much of. As a 6/5 indestructible, he may be able to be a good beatdown, but you'd have to get red devotion up, not necessarily something I see a Control deck doing.
Midrange - Has potential here. Nice creature buffer as well as opponent Shock, may wreck face in mid-game.
I think he is overrated, but he's not garbage. Really, it'll depend on how the meta shifts. I guess we'll see how much he's used soon enough.
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I playtested against the card a couple times. They were on Moro-red with 3 main deck. I lost every game it hit t4, because unless they had an empty hand or I was stonewalling creatures, the static ability would just get there, and half the time he was a 6/5 beater. He is insane. Not overrated. I hate this card.
I lol'ed. I hope everyone keeps trashing him and he drops to $10 for a week after prereleases so that i can grab the ones I need before he shoots back up as all the red decks running him smash face in the early tournaments.
I lol'ed. I hope everyone keeps trashing him and he drops to $10 for a week after prereleases so that i can grab the ones I need before he shoots back up as all the red decks running him smash face in the early tournaments.
He's only worthwhile in big red which is a midrange deck. It's always red aggro that wins the early tournaments. He will drop though once everyone decides he's bad after only playing him in an aggro shell. Chandra and his hammer honestly have him beat as far as a curve topper that gives reach and Fanatic of Mogis as far as finishing the game. (if you have 5+ devotion 5+ to the face on turn 4 is better than 5 blockable on turn 5)
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So I was evaluating on which cards to pre-order, and was undecided on if I wanted to purchase the red god Purphoros, or the Stormbreath dragon.. And it got me thinking.
Purphoros will only be effective in mono-red decks, and is a turn 4 creature. While his abilities are amazing, I feel that this may be a tad late in a mono-red build. IMO, most RDW should be trying to end on turn 4, which is why I feel the Mogis would be a better card, because it would deal 4 damage right off the bat.
Stormbreath will take the place of Thundermaw in big-red, midrange and other agro decks... so what does the mean for purphoros? I feel he could be good in a boros build.. IF... you utilize reckoners... but even then..
What do yall think?
If its a dragon and its name isn't "thundermaw hellkite" then its probably overrated.
purphoros does a lot of things that mono red wants. The main one being that he closes out games. Turning all of your creature draws into burn spells after turn 4 is pretty huge now that thragtusk and all the life gain he brought to the format is gone.
Many people are overrating the fact that the opponent will have enough removal to keep his devotion down. When we're talking about control decks, this is probably true, but they more than likely won't have a proactive enough game plan to overcome purphoros' reach over the long stretch of a game. especially if you have his hammer sitting next to him.
that said, I think I like the idea of purphoros in a RG midrange build with xenagos more than I like him in mono red. I also like the idea of purphoros in a RW boros "control" build with a bunch of burn and boros reckoner to control the early game and stuff like assemble and purphoros to close the game out later. Maybe some support cards like young pyromancer and molten birth.
Some are making legitimate points about why purphoros is bad, but many are underrating the points to why he is good.
stormbreath dragon is a very good card. Red will have the most troubles out of GW decks, which stormbreath dragon effectively laughs at. Stuff like loxodon smiter, voice of resurgence, archangel of thune, etc. doesn't do much against the dragon. Granted it's no invincible and it's definitely no thundermaw hellkite, but it's a very good card.
protection from white is very good against:
voice of resurgence
loxodon smiter
fleecemane lion
angel of serenity
banisher priest
azorius charm
warleader's helix
spear of heliod
archangel of thune
boros reckoner
chained to the rocks
pacifism
obzedat
blood baron of vizkopa
that's a pretty decent list of cards that see/will see constructed play.
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I don't believe it's overrated. Some expect it to be the next hellrider, which is not but can be sometimes, which is a turn 4 finisher (granting a turn 3 hammer). But built around the right deck, even if you were not able to attack w/ him he can still be a force.
How about aggro w/ splash of black for underworld cerberus?
Cards like Cackler, Legion Loyalist, Ash Zealot, Rakdos Shredfreak or a nuts BTE draw 2nd turn can cause early damage and an unchecked 3rd turn Hammer can turn Purphoros to an indestructible 6/5 Crit w/ haste attack on turn 4. Incase you were not able to attack with him because some of your early drops were killed cast underworld cerberus and finish the job. If he gets killed you get your legion loyalists, ash zealots and shredfreaks back, cast them again to deal 6 or or more damage from Purphoros then attack. With Purphoros and his hammer RDW has a much better chance at extended games now.
Purphorous is a beating, he lives up to the hype. Turning every topdeck other than lands into a shock is awesome, coming down as a 6/5 indestructible blocker on turn 4 is awesome, and getting to swing in with him is awesome. His firebreathing ability is pretty badass as well when factoring in Nykthos.
I haven't found there to be much issue with maintaining devotion between the Zealots, Reckoners, Chandras, and Phoenixs. It ends games on turn 5 pretty regularly, but it can stall out the opponent and play the long game too. Setting up a defense with Reckoner and Purphorous and letting Chandra grind them out with burn/creature shocks does the trick as well. Throw in a turn 6 or so Fanatic for just 6 damage is often enough to end the game right there. I have dropped double Fanatics on turn 5 with Nykthos and delivered 19 damage to the dome. That scenario isn't the norm, but it is definitely possible, and even somewhat likely if you move it to turn 6.
9 four drops 23 land. I see you too live in reality
Actually, I haven't had any issues with mana at all. With 23 lands, I generally (at least 80% of the time) hit 4 lands by turn 4 or 5 at the latest. Magma Jet does wonders helping with this.
I agree... I find it interesting that this card has so much hype behind it despite the lack of playability. If you play purphoros... That means you plan on sticking around till turn 6 or even beyond.. and that means what? You may get 8 damage off from his ability if you drop 4 creatures?
you forget that he can be a 6/5 creature by himself and he can pump your whole team.
Purphorous is a beating, he lives up to the hype. Turning every topdeck other than lands into a shock is awesome, coming down as a 6/5 indestructible blocker on turn 4 is awesome, and getting to swing in with him is awesome. His firebreathing ability is pretty badass as well when factoring in Nykthos.
I haven't found there to be much issue with maintaining devotion between the Zealots, Reckoners, Chandras, and Phoenixs. It ends games on turn 5 pretty regularly, but it can stall out the opponent and play the long game too. Setting up a defense with Reckoner and Purphorous and letting Chandra grind them out with burn/creature shocks does the trick as well. Throw in a turn 6 or so Fanatic for just 6 damage is often enough to end the game right there. I have dropped double Fanatics on turn 5 with Nykthos and delivered 19 damage to the dome. That scenario isn't the norm, but it is definitely possible, and even somewhat likely if you move it to turn 6.
beside a few small number differences, i play exactly this list and im really happy with it
beside a few small number differences, i play exactly this list and im really happy with it
Yeah, I have been shifting the numbers around here and there, but the list I posted is what I settled on. I am sure it will change some once the meta defines itself (especially the SB), but for right now its working really well.
He is not going to be a red staple like a lot of people are making him out to be. I doubt he'll stay at the $20 price point for very long.
That said, he's going to be the star of my Izzet deck when combined with Young Pyromancer, Chandra's Phoenix, and my plethora of burn and counter spells.
He was terrible at the SCG Open. I see his target price point going down to maybe $4 in three months, sort of like Aurelia's Fury.
The card is completely unplayable in any matchup other than Esper.
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He has nice interactions but he is way too slow, unless you manage to have enough devotion to hit with him on T5 AND drop the Assemble the legion, you are just waiting T4 AND T5 for no board impact until T6 (which is a 1/1 token a 2 damage).
If you ever win by dropping Purphoros T4 and ATL T5, this game was already won anyways.
I wasnt at the event but you do realize he was in 2 top 16 deck right? He was a 1 of but I promise you that you will see mre of him in more decks. I dont know what some people are talking about but his devotion is super easy to keep up unless your playing a removal heavy deck. He will also get better as the block goes n because im sure we can count on more devotion enablers
I wasnt at the event but you do realize he was in 2 top 16 deck right? He was a 1 of but I promise you that you will see mre of him in more decks. I dont know what some people are talking about but his devotion is super easy to keep up unless your playing a removal heavy deck. He will also get better as the block goes n because im sure we can count on more devotion enablers
You are right, he was in top 16 but he did not win games.
I see this card as a concession to the control decks. If you have a good handle on the Meta and don't expect to ever run into a deck that has Supreme Verdict, then you probably don't want this card. But if you want to improve your odds against that deck then you probably want at least one copy main.
It's a solid enough card that you don't feel bad about drawing it in the matchups where it's less than optimal. But if you are trying to configure your deck to specifically beat certain things, then there might be a better card to run in it's place.
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This is what I have come to think of about the gods. I got my son 2 Nylea for his RG deck and the whole time the thought of it being a creature is secondary to the effect they can provide. In his case, trample is what he needs. Purphoros if you can get him out and start dropping the critters whether through token generation or playing cheap ones there is is main value. His biggest value is through being a sort of(lord help the wrath I will get from this comparison) Shrine of Burning Rage. You do direct damage to the opponent for each creature you play, a nice damage boost for the typical Red style of deck.
Turning him into a creature won't be hard as the format will probably slow, but we can't rely on that. So I think the way we need to start looking at the god's are their benefit to us first and creature second.
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
I don't think gods will ever attack that often, but that may just be down to me not playing enough matches of the format.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Where have I seen that before? Oh yeah, pretty much every Planeswalker ever. Some of them have been huge hits, some huge misses (Nissa, Tibalt) and most have been solid but unspectacular role players.
Aggro - Too slow for aggro, even RDW. It looks good, but probably won't get there.
Control - Doesn't seem very control-ish. His abilities rely on playing creatures, which isn't something control decks do much of. As a 6/5 indestructible, he may be able to be a good beatdown, but you'd have to get red devotion up, not necessarily something I see a Control deck doing.
Midrange - Has potential here. Nice creature buffer as well as opponent Shock, may wreck face in mid-game.
I think he is overrated, but he's not garbage. Really, it'll depend on how the meta shifts. I guess we'll see how much he's used soon enough.
"Be silent, thou accursed wolf;
Consume within thyself with thine own rage."
-Dante's Inferno (Canto VII)
I lol'ed. I hope everyone keeps trashing him and he drops to $10 for a week after prereleases so that i can grab the ones I need before he shoots back up as all the red decks running him smash face in the early tournaments.
He's only worthwhile in big red which is a midrange deck. It's always red aggro that wins the early tournaments. He will drop though once everyone decides he's bad after only playing him in an aggro shell. Chandra and his hammer honestly have him beat as far as a curve topper that gives reach and Fanatic of Mogis as far as finishing the game. (if you have 5+ devotion 5+ to the face on turn 4 is better than 5 blockable on turn 5)
If its a dragon and its name isn't "thundermaw hellkite" then its probably overrated.
Many people are overrating the fact that the opponent will have enough removal to keep his devotion down. When we're talking about control decks, this is probably true, but they more than likely won't have a proactive enough game plan to overcome purphoros' reach over the long stretch of a game. especially if you have his hammer sitting next to him.
that said, I think I like the idea of purphoros in a RG midrange build with xenagos more than I like him in mono red. I also like the idea of purphoros in a RW boros "control" build with a bunch of burn and boros reckoner to control the early game and stuff like assemble and purphoros to close the game out later. Maybe some support cards like young pyromancer and molten birth.
Some are making legitimate points about why purphoros is bad, but many are underrating the points to why he is good.
stormbreath dragon is a very good card. Red will have the most troubles out of GW decks, which stormbreath dragon effectively laughs at. Stuff like loxodon smiter, voice of resurgence, archangel of thune, etc. doesn't do much against the dragon. Granted it's no invincible and it's definitely no thundermaw hellkite, but it's a very good card.
protection from white is very good against:
voice of resurgence
loxodon smiter
fleecemane lion
angel of serenity
banisher priest
azorius charm
warleader's helix
spear of heliod
archangel of thune
boros reckoner
chained to the rocks
pacifism
obzedat
blood baron of vizkopa
that's a pretty decent list of cards that see/will see constructed play.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
How about aggro w/ splash of black for underworld cerberus?
Cards like Cackler, Legion Loyalist, Ash Zealot, Rakdos Shredfreak or a nuts BTE draw 2nd turn can cause early damage and an unchecked 3rd turn Hammer can turn Purphoros to an indestructible 6/5 Crit w/ haste attack on turn 4. Incase you were not able to attack with him because some of your early drops were killed cast underworld cerberus and finish the job. If he gets killed you get your legion loyalists, ash zealots and shredfreaks back, cast them again to deal 6 or or more damage from Purphoros then attack. With Purphoros and his hammer RDW has a much better chance at extended games now.
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Fanatic of Mogis
3 Purphorous, God of the Forge
Instant/Sorcery (16)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Mizium Mortars
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
Land (23)
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
21 Mountain
4 Ember Swallower
3 Burning Earth
4 Skullcrack
4 Anger of the Gods
Purphorous is a beating, he lives up to the hype. Turning every topdeck other than lands into a shock is awesome, coming down as a 6/5 indestructible blocker on turn 4 is awesome, and getting to swing in with him is awesome. His firebreathing ability is pretty badass as well when factoring in Nykthos.
I haven't found there to be much issue with maintaining devotion between the Zealots, Reckoners, Chandras, and Phoenixs. It ends games on turn 5 pretty regularly, but it can stall out the opponent and play the long game too. Setting up a defense with Reckoner and Purphorous and letting Chandra grind them out with burn/creature shocks does the trick as well. Throw in a turn 6 or so Fanatic for just 6 damage is often enough to end the game right there. I have dropped double Fanatics on turn 5 with Nykthos and delivered 19 damage to the dome. That scenario isn't the norm, but it is definitely possible, and even somewhat likely if you move it to turn 6.
Actually, I haven't had any issues with mana at all. With 23 lands, I generally (at least 80% of the time) hit 4 lands by turn 4 or 5 at the latest. Magma Jet does wonders helping with this.
you forget that he can be a 6/5 creature by himself and he can pump your whole team.
beside a few small number differences, i play exactly this list and im really happy with it
Yeah, I have been shifting the numbers around here and there, but the list I posted is what I settled on. I am sure it will change some once the meta defines itself (especially the SB), but for right now its working really well.
That said, he's going to be the star of my Izzet deck when combined with Young Pyromancer, Chandra's Phoenix, and my plethora of burn and counter spells.
The card is completely unplayable in any matchup other than Esper.
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If you ever win by dropping Purphoros T4 and ATL T5, this game was already won anyways.
You are right, he was in top 16 but he did not win games.
It's a solid enough card that you don't feel bad about drawing it in the matchups where it's less than optimal. But if you are trying to configure your deck to specifically beat certain things, then there might be a better card to run in it's place.