After seeing a list on MODO I tested 3 Tribute to Hunger (besides 4 Verdicts and 3 Terminus) main deck and absolutely loved it: Life gain is relevant. Good against Hexproof. Can kill Obzedats and Blood Barons. Doom Blade does indeed look a bit weak right now. Probably sideboard material?
I don't know how yours looks, but my sideboard is pretty loaded. There are just TONS of decks out there and I'm not sure I want to make room for it. Should be the go to spell for Theros though, depending on how things pan out.
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Current standard decks:
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
I don't know how yours looks, but my sideboard is pretty loaded. There are just TONS of decks out there and I'm not sure I want to make room for it. Should be the go to spell for Theros though, depending on how things pan out.
True, with such a diverse meta I could easily fit 25 relevant cards into the sideboard. Havent tested yet with M14 so not sure whether DoomBlade is really needed and there is room in the sideboard. But I cannot see running more than two in the 75 at this stage.
I don't know how yours looks, but my sideboard is pretty loaded. There are just TONS of decks out there and I'm not sure I want to make room for it. Should be the go to spell for Theros though, depending on how things pan out.
Oh I love core sets. Lots of dudes that bash and don't do anything
I think that the scavenging ooze reprint will help us so much even of we don't run it, as there will be fewer rites decks in the meta because of it.
1st post around here in awhile, but I wanted to know what yall think abut this...
Doom Blade actually hasnt been testing well for me. Seems like my greatest fears are being realized...there are just so many multi-colored dudes out now and Doom Blade isnt anywhere near as good as it was in Innistrad standard last year. Doom Blade doesn't actually kill anymore (important) creatures than Victim of Night does and is terrible against Obzedat and Sire of Insanity. I know Sire is only a fringe card these days, but if you're caught off guard it WILL beat you. Has anyone else been feeling like Doom Blade actually isnt all that good anymore?
It's been pretty poopy for me too. Against some decks it's a Terminate, but so far there seem to be too many it blanks on.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
so, looking for some discussion on how to deal with Reanimator Angel loops with Acidic slime. This just cripples me when stabilizing and the fact that a hardcast ooze in g2 takes out my Rest in Peace, Detention Sphere, Nephalia Drownyard or an important land in a deck filled with spells that need double blues and double whites... it's just painful. And if it's not Serenity, it's resto, blinking Slime. Not fun.
so, looking for some discussion on how to deal with Reanimator Angel loops with Acidic slime. This just cripples me when stabilizing and the fact that a hardcast ooze in g2 takes out my Rest in Peace, Detention Sphere, Nephalia Drownyard or an important land in a deck filled with spells that need double blues and double whites... it's just painful. And if it's not Serenity, it's resto, blinking Slime. Not fun.
Ideas?
It really depends on your decklist. I know I've never really cared about an Angel of Serenity. So expensive if they don't Unburial Rites it. I run 5 counterspells maindeck with 2 Snapcaster Mage, and 7 counterspells after sideboarding with 2 Snapcasters and 2 Appetite for Brains. If you play the tap-out version with the Sorin, I could see how it could be a problem, though. Appetite for Brains helps a lot, especially if you play tap-out. All the cards that you care about start at 5 CMC. The annoying Sin Collectors and Voices are good against you, but not game breaking.
Also, If you run Syncopate, you'll find Essence Scatter gives you a much higher probability of casting Supreme Verdict and holding up a counter.
Run 4 appetite for brains and target resto, slime, and AoS. Play snapcaster and cryptic incursion too.
If you're meta is full of reanimator and nothing else or you really can't beat the deck any other way, then sure run 4, but 2 is usually fine, 4 is just a huge hole in your sideboard slots. I Personally like Rest In Peace as a one of and then 2 Crypt Incursions and 2 Appetite for Brains.
If you're meta is full of reanimator and nothing else or you really can't beat the deck any other way, then sure run 4, but 2 is usually fine, 4 is just a huge hole in your sideboard slots. I Personally like Rest In Peace as a one of and then 2 Crypt Incursions and 2 Appetite for Brains.
Good point. This echoes my thinking exactly. (So naturally, I think it's a good point! )
I run 2 Essence Scatter, 1 RiP, 2 Appetites, 2 Crypt Incursions, 2 Dissipates, and can always fall back on the Jace MA or Aetherling plan if I lose my Drownyards to Slime action. So far this has been adequate. The RiP is almost a lightning rod in this as they will always target it with their 1st Slime so you can respond with CI later, turning their AoS into a very expensive vanilla dork.
/M
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
Be careful how much graveyard hate you bring in against that deck. It's called "reanimator", but there's only 4 copies of Unburial Rites (Angel of Serenity, I suppose is also there, but if they're hard-casting that, they've lost their window to seriously beat you), and they don't even combo-win when they cast it. You already have counterspells, and Appetite for Brains to deal with Unburial Rites, and if you board in graveyard hate, you're basically bringing in cards that only interact with a 4-of in your opponent's deck. It seems like graveyard hate shuts down Mulch, Grisly Salvage and all that, but they still get their value. All the creatures in their graveyard mean nothing if they don't resolve Unburial Rites.
Basically, I treat the deck as a Junk Midrange build, and only side in the 1 Crypt Incursion that I would bring in against even Naya Midrange. I also bring in 2x Appetite for Brains and 4x Terminus, taking out all my Supreme Verdicts. With 4x Dissipate, 2x Appetite for Brains, 4x Terminus, half the time, Unburial Rites is dead in their hand, since nothing's in the graveyard.
If you're meta is full of reanimator and nothing else or you really can't beat the deck any other way, then sure run 4, but 2 is usually fine, 4 is just a huge hole in your sideboard slots. I Personally like Rest In Peace as a one of and then 2 Crypt Incursions and 2 Appetite for Brains.
I run 2-3 RIP (as it competely kills junk aristocrats), 2 cryptic incursion, and 2 appetite for brains. If a meta is having problems with reanimator, it's quite likely that there aren't that many control decks playing, so swapping some control sideboard for some reanimator sideboard isn't a bad idea. Alternately, bring out the turbofog for a while.
Could Sanguine Bond be playable in Esper? We have a lot of lifegain (SR, Obzedat, (azurious charm) and my list also runs blood barons and cryptincursions) and it is not easy to deal with for many decks.
I don't see it being playable at the current time (with theros being enchantment based, it could be in a few months). The problem at present is that curse of death's hold has the same cost and does a lot more for all the aggro and midrange matchups while the control decks wouldn't be that affected.
Soorani placed well again with his Esper Walkers list in the SCG Richmond. Weird thing is that it lists 62 cards on Star City Games. Did he really play a 62-card deck, or is it showing extra Snapcasters? I know he used to play just 1 in his list.
Soorani placed well again with his Esper Walkers list in the SCG Richmond. Weird thing is that it lists 62 cards on Star City Games. Did he really play a 62-card deck, or is it showing extra Snapcasters? I know he used to play just 1 in his list.
At the risk of sounding dumb...what's the Evil Twin for? I've seen it in lists for awhile and been perplexed all along. With Snaps we just have better removal spells, so I wonder what added dimensionality people are seeing in it.
/M
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
At the risk of sounding dumb...what's the Evil Twin for? I've seen it in lists for awhile and been perplexed all along. With Snaps we just have better removal spells, so I wonder what added dimensionality people are seeing in it.
/M
Evil Twin's are traditionally there as "clone removal" for legendary hexproofers...but this tournament took place the day of or after the legendary rule change, no? I'm not sure why he would still have them in his list...
^For all intents and purposes I would think that the Twin is basically Thragtusk, with the upside of killing yours. Also probably good against Angel of Serenity.
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Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
Evil Twin's are traditionally there as "clone removal" for legendary hexproofers...but this tournament took place the day of or after the legendary rule change, no? I'm not sure why he would still have them in his list...
Yeah, Soorani was asked this question on Facebook and he said it was still solid. You can't kill a Geist of St. Traft, but you can kill Olivias, Thragtusks, Blood Barons, Slimes, etc.
Yeah, Soorani was asked this question on Facebook and he said it was still solid. You can't kill a Geist of St. Traft, but you can kill Olivias, Thragtusks, Blood Barons, Slimes, etc.
Thanks for the responses guys -- and especially Murdox for getting it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Obviously I've used clone effects extensively in the past to kill Geist and all that, but I have doubts about using it against Olivia. I'd think she just shoots it before it can kill her. Anyway, I'll test it with Thragtusk, Blood Baron, etc., in mind.
/A
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
Thanks for the responses guys -- and especially Murdox for getting it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Obviously I've used clone effects extensively in the past to kill Geist and all that, but I have doubts about using it against Olivia. I'd think she just shoots it before it can kill her. Anyway, I'll test it with Thragtusk, Blood Baron, etc., in mind.
/A
Well, Blood Baron actually has protection from White and Black, so it's more about maintaining life gain parity if you copy the Blood Baron (at least I believe that's where Soorani probably meant to go with that situation). But most other things it is decent against. Even Aetherling because it can keep "resetting" it. Agree about Olivia, although sometimes they won't have the mana to steal it on turn 5.
A few things that i believe deserve an explanation:
1. Spell Rupture, is there to counter removal for the blood baron, ghost dad or aetherling. Which makes it to an extremely efficient counterspell to say the least. It doesn't really serve any other purpose, so a couple of these are plenty
Spell Rutpure with only six creatures is a really bad idea.
Also not terribly keen on Feeling of Dread. It buys you time but doesn't get rid of problems.
In the current meta I would always play a few terminus in the 75.
Liliana seems very weak in your deck. She is basically a 3 mana edict. Love Liliana but this is not the deck for her.
Thoughts welcome, been out of it for a while and honesty haven't been super interested in this standard (been playing Stoneblade :cool2:). Might get back in after rotation.
Thoughts welcome, been out of it for a while and honesty haven't been super interested in this standard (been playing Stoneblade :cool2:). Might get back in after rotation.
O-ring is probably better than d-sphere if you're playing renounce the guilds (obzedat and baron don't matter because if they're in play (and on the field in the case of obzedat), there's probably not a great reason to play renounce anyway).
I'd also consider dropping 1-2 azorius charm. It becomes pure dead weight if your opponent drops a voice of resurgence. Replacing them with removal would probably work best (some combination of far//away and doom blade probably).
But feeling of dread is there to stop naya blitz, until i can cast one the of the sweepers which i have clearly forgotten. I think i'm going to go for a 2/3 split of 3 terminus and 2 supreme. I always liked terminus better. Spell Rupture is there main deck because there are so many doom blades and selesnya charms in my local meta. basically aggro decks that run spot removal. The dissipates are there to counter their creatures.
I'm not a fan of playing so many terminus. This past weekend's SCG open at richmond showed the problem. The esper decks lost the match because terminus is expensive to cast. My current solution is 4 verdict mainboard and 2 terminus sideboarded with 1 rest in peace in main and 1-2 in sideboard. On turn 4, I'd rather deal with two 2/2 growing tokens and be able to play kill spells during their turn. If RIP is in my opener, I'd rather have verdict in any non-miracle case. Another downside of terminus is that it most often adds an additional turn to mill them out which is a huge disadvantage.
RIP is even better post-M14.
still good vs reanimator (though I think scavenging ooze has killed it)
vs jund:
ooze, sever the bloodline FB and tragic slip
vs control:
it shuts off lingering souls FB, think twice FB, alchemy FB and snapcaster. This gets rid of most of the mirror's card advantage.
vs aristocrats:
doomed traveler, skirsdag high priest, voice of resurgence, blood artist, lingering souls, varolz, deathrite shaman, Xanthrid necromancer, tragic slip
vs bant hexproof:
voice of resurgence, rancor, undying
Thoughts welcome, been out of it for a while and honesty haven't been super interested in this standard (been playing Stoneblade :cool2:). Might get back in after rotation.
I think you end up tapping out way too much. I'm also a little concerned about focus. You have 2 PW that can win, 3 Lingering Souls, 3 dorks and 2 Drownyards. I think that's too diluted and that you are wasting slots that could be better used on point removal. If you are trying to win with Mill then add a DY and Jace MA and get rid of all the token stuff. If you are going the other way then add more Sorins and the final Souls. In either case get rid of one of the fatties -- probably Obzedaat. Pick a path to victory and go all in on it. The current hyper aggro environment is too unforgiving to go with half measures.
Additionally...only one Revelation? That's crazy. I really don't think this type of deck is playable with less than 3.
/M
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
I totally agree... I run 3 azorious charms... I keep them for wolf run pumps, tokens, and lifelink draw a card. They are pretty good still. Everything else I play are full measure. Kill everything , exile what you can't kill. My sweepers are 4 verdicts, 2 terminus and 1, planar cleansing.
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I don't know how yours looks, but my sideboard is pretty loaded. There are just TONS of decks out there and I'm not sure I want to make room for it. Should be the go to spell for Theros though, depending on how things pan out.
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
True, with such a diverse meta I could easily fit 25 relevant cards into the sideboard. Havent tested yet with M14 so not sure whether DoomBlade is really needed and there is room in the sideboard. But I cannot see running more than two in the 75 at this stage.
Well given the pre-release hype around Kalonian Hydra, Scavenging Ooze and Archangel of Thune both Doom Blade and (logically) Ultimate Price should be slightly more relevant in Esper while people are feverishly testing out their new $30 mono coloured mythics.
I think that the scavenging ooze reprint will help us so much even of we don't run it, as there will be fewer rites decks in the meta because of it.
Sig by Ace of Spades studio at http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=451747
I'm a child playing an adult's card game.
Esper CONTROL: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10441008&postcount=239
I'm a Rules Advisor. Woo-hoo.
Gamer's Armory in Raleigh, NC. Best bad store ever.
It's been pretty poopy for me too. Against some decks it's a Terminate, but so far there seem to be too many it blanks on.
Ideas?
It really depends on your decklist. I know I've never really cared about an Angel of Serenity. So expensive if they don't Unburial Rites it. I run 5 counterspells maindeck with 2 Snapcaster Mage, and 7 counterspells after sideboarding with 2 Snapcasters and 2 Appetite for Brains. If you play the tap-out version with the Sorin, I could see how it could be a problem, though. Appetite for Brains helps a lot, especially if you play tap-out. All the cards that you care about start at 5 CMC. The annoying Sin Collectors and Voices are good against you, but not game breaking.
Also, If you run Syncopate, you'll find Essence Scatter gives you a much higher probability of casting Supreme Verdict and holding up a counter.
If you're meta is full of reanimator and nothing else or you really can't beat the deck any other way, then sure run 4, but 2 is usually fine, 4 is just a huge hole in your sideboard slots. I Personally like Rest In Peace as a one of and then 2 Crypt Incursions and 2 Appetite for Brains.
Good point. This echoes my thinking exactly. (So naturally, I think it's a good point! )
I run 2 Essence Scatter, 1 RiP, 2 Appetites, 2 Crypt Incursions, 2 Dissipates, and can always fall back on the Jace MA or Aetherling plan if I lose my Drownyards to Slime action. So far this has been adequate. The RiP is almost a lightning rod in this as they will always target it with their 1st Slime so you can respond with CI later, turning their AoS into a very expensive vanilla dork.
/M
Basically, I treat the deck as a Junk Midrange build, and only side in the 1 Crypt Incursion that I would bring in against even Naya Midrange. I also bring in 2x Appetite for Brains and 4x Terminus, taking out all my Supreme Verdicts. With 4x Dissipate, 2x Appetite for Brains, 4x Terminus, half the time, Unburial Rites is dead in their hand, since nothing's in the graveyard.
I run 2-3 RIP (as it competely kills junk aristocrats), 2 cryptic incursion, and 2 appetite for brains. If a meta is having problems with reanimator, it's quite likely that there aren't that many control decks playing, so swapping some control sideboard for some reanimator sideboard isn't a bad idea. Alternately, bring out the turbofog for a while.
I don't see it being playable at the current time (with theros being enchantment based, it could be in a few months). The problem at present is that curse of death's hold has the same cost and does a lot more for all the aggro and midrange matchups while the control decks wouldn't be that affected.
1 Evil Twin
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Island
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Nephalia Drownyard
3 Watery Grave
4 Azorius Charm
2 Dissipate
1 Far
2 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Think Twice
2 Warped Physique
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Terminus
1 Trading Post
1 Evil Twin
1 Curse of Death's Hold
3 Rest in Peace
3 Negate
1 Psychic Spiral
1 Victim of Night
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Appetite for Brains
1 Supreme Verdict
At the risk of sounding dumb...what's the Evil Twin for? I've seen it in lists for awhile and been perplexed all along. With Snaps we just have better removal spells, so I wonder what added dimensionality people are seeing in it.
/M
Evil Twin's are traditionally there as "clone removal" for legendary hexproofers...but this tournament took place the day of or after the legendary rule change, no? I'm not sure why he would still have them in his list...
Yeah, Soorani was asked this question on Facebook and he said it was still solid. You can't kill a Geist of St. Traft, but you can kill Olivias, Thragtusks, Blood Barons, Slimes, etc.
Thanks for the responses guys -- and especially Murdox for getting it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Obviously I've used clone effects extensively in the past to kill Geist and all that, but I have doubts about using it against Olivia. I'd think she just shoots it before it can kill her. Anyway, I'll test it with Thragtusk, Blood Baron, etc., in mind.
/A
Well, Blood Baron actually has protection from White and Black, so it's more about maintaining life gain parity if you copy the Blood Baron (at least I believe that's where Soorani probably meant to go with that situation). But most other things it is decent against. Even Aetherling because it can keep "resetting" it. Agree about Olivia, although sometimes they won't have the mana to steal it on turn 5.
Spell Rutpure with only six creatures is a really bad idea.
Also not terribly keen on Feeling of Dread. It buys you time but doesn't get rid of problems.
In the current meta I would always play a few terminus in the 75.
Liliana seems very weak in your deck. She is basically a 3 mana edict. Love Liliana but this is not the deck for her.
EDIT: Where are your sweepers??
:symu::symw::symb: Control :symb::symw::symu:
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Watery Grave
3 Godless Shrine
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Island
1 Plains
Instants [14]
4 Azorius Charm
3 Think Twice
2 Dissipate
2 Far // Away
2 Warped Physique
1 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Lingering Souls
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Terminus
Creatures [5]
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 AEtherling
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Planneswalkers [5]
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Enchantments [2]
2 Detention Sphere
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Doom Blade
2 Negate
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
2 Renounce the Guilds
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Supreme Verdict
Deckstats
Thoughts welcome, been out of it for a while and honesty haven't been super interested in this standard (been playing Stoneblade :cool2:). Might get back in after rotation.
My Decks, Haves & Wants, Buy/Wish List, and Worksheets:
Standard:
:symu::symw::symb:Control:symb::symw::symu:
:symu::symw::symr:Flash:symr::symw::symu:
Modern:
:symu::symb: Tezzfinty :symb::symu:
Legacy:
:symu::symw::symr:Stoneblade:symr::symw::symu:
O-ring is probably better than d-sphere if you're playing renounce the guilds (obzedat and baron don't matter because if they're in play (and on the field in the case of obzedat), there's probably not a great reason to play renounce anyway).
I'd also consider dropping 1-2 azorius charm. It becomes pure dead weight if your opponent drops a voice of resurgence. Replacing them with removal would probably work best (some combination of far//away and doom blade probably).
I'm not a fan of playing so many terminus. This past weekend's SCG open at richmond showed the problem. The esper decks lost the match because terminus is expensive to cast. My current solution is 4 verdict mainboard and 2 terminus sideboarded with 1 rest in peace in main and 1-2 in sideboard. On turn 4, I'd rather deal with two 2/2 growing tokens and be able to play kill spells during their turn. If RIP is in my opener, I'd rather have verdict in any non-miracle case. Another downside of terminus is that it most often adds an additional turn to mill them out which is a huge disadvantage.
RIP is even better post-M14.
still good vs reanimator (though I think scavenging ooze has killed it)
vs jund:
ooze, sever the bloodline FB and tragic slip
vs control:
it shuts off lingering souls FB, think twice FB, alchemy FB and snapcaster. This gets rid of most of the mirror's card advantage.
vs aristocrats:
doomed traveler, skirsdag high priest, voice of resurgence, blood artist, lingering souls, varolz, deathrite shaman, Xanthrid necromancer, tragic slip
vs bant hexproof:
voice of resurgence, rancor, undying
I think you end up tapping out way too much. I'm also a little concerned about focus. You have 2 PW that can win, 3 Lingering Souls, 3 dorks and 2 Drownyards. I think that's too diluted and that you are wasting slots that could be better used on point removal. If you are trying to win with Mill then add a DY and Jace MA and get rid of all the token stuff. If you are going the other way then add more Sorins and the final Souls. In either case get rid of one of the fatties -- probably Obzedaat. Pick a path to victory and go all in on it. The current hyper aggro environment is too unforgiving to go with half measures.
Additionally...only one Revelation? That's crazy. I really don't think this type of deck is playable with less than 3.
/M