Has anyone come up with a sideboard strategy that makes junk even slightly favorable?
Put in:
2 Progenitor Mimic
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Dissipate
Take out:
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Augur of Bolas
I play Aggro really early get in damage, save counterspells for the rites then flash in the wurm. If you put on enough pressure they will be forced to Thragtusk with their rites as opposed to trying to get cute with Slime/Angel.
I will normally Selesyna Charm on turn 2 for a beater if the option is there. Sometimes I will do it again on 3 as well. I know you need it for the exile but with Snaps you'll be alright.
Also if you sense the Slime route, save simic charm for that.
Progen mimic on Thragtusk/Your Own Wurm/Angel/Slime.
Just make sure when you mimic you save Simic Charm or Counterspell mana.
Once you get the mimic to make at least one copy of an Angel or Slime especially, and you get to untap, it gets really bad for them with their lack of board wipe or solid removal.
Round 1: Bant Hexproof won 2-0
Don't remember much about the first game. I stabilized at 6 life after casting Supreme Verdict and was able to use a Wurm token to finish the game. Game 2 I went to 6 and my opponent went to 5 keeping Forest, Avacyns Pilgrim, Geist of Saint Traft, Loxodon Smiter, Unflinching Courage but never hit a second land.
Game 1 I kept a 7 card hand with 2 syncopates and an advent of the wurm and drew into a rewind and 2 snapcasters, which was more than enough to take care of his threats. Game 2 he hits Huntmaster of the Fells on turns 3-5, and I can only struggle for so long before I am toast. Game 3 he hits turn 3 & 4 huntmaster and we trade resources for awhile (with him staying ahead). He casts a Slaughter Games while I have 6 mana out (can't remember if I tapped for something else or I was missing land drops) and I cast sphinx's revelation in response to slaughter games which draws me into a verdict for his guys but it leaves me at 6 life. Shortly after that I drew an aetherling, and had enough cards to deal with his thragtusk +token, and that was enough to close out the game.
Round 3: Junk Reanimator Lost 1-2
Game 1 I got hit by sin collector 3 seperate times (2 off resto triggers) and it was too big of a hole to dig out of. Game 2 I fought through 3 voice of resurgence, + Restos, slimes, and sin collectors; and eventually got Progenitor Mimic on a Wurm token which eventually ran him out of chump blockers and I won shortly after. Game 3 was more of the game 1 shenanigans but with him also hitting 2 Voice on turns 2 and 3.
Round 4: Bant Stuff Won 2-0
Paired against a friend for this round, I knew what he was playing and it's not really worth sharing any details since no one else in their right mind would play this list.
Round 5: ID into top 8
Top 8: Junk Reanimator Lost 1-2
Same guy from round 3, games played out pretty much the same except I tried a different board plan. Didn't do any better, or any worse really, so I'm not sure what my next move is going to be.
Observations: Aetherling is awesome. Jund cannot beat him as long as you don't run him out blind on turn 6. He is exactly the SB card I was looking for against Jund and other control decks. He will definitely be harder to resolve against control, but there should be a point in the late game where it's doable.
Reanimator- I'm at the point where I feel like the best plan against Reanimator is to be aggressive, and proactive. They have too much inevitability for us to sit back and try to play a reactive game against them. I'm currently leaning towards switching my 3 SB Deathrite Shamans too 2 Geist of Saint Traft and 1 Runechanters Pike. Those slots are only devoted to Reanimator right now, so at least the GoST and Pike can be used in other MU's, or when I hit a game 3 with 5-7 minutes left on the clock.
Still undecided on Loxodon Smiter. It is slightly useful against Jund, but I'm not sure if it's good enough against aggro or not. I'm considering keeping 1 and moving back to heroe's reunion, or feeling of dreadUnflinching Courage for the other 2 slots; but we will see.
This is what I'm currently considering moving forward:
Round 1: Bant Hexproof won 2-0
Don't remember much about the first game. I stabilized at 6 life after casting Supreme Verdict and was able to use a Wurm token to finish the game. Game 2 I went to 6 and my opponent went to 5 keeping Forest, Avacyns Pilgrim, Geist of Saint Traft, Loxodon Smiter, Unflinching Courage but never hit a second land.
Game 1 I kept a 7 card hand with 2 syncopates and an advent of the wurm and drew into a rewind and 2 snapcasters, which was more than enough to take care of his threats. Game 2 he hits Huntmaster of the Fells on turns 3-5, and I can only struggle for so long before I am toast. Game 3 he hits turn 3 & 4 huntmaster and we trade resources for awhile (with him staying ahead). He casts a Slaughter Games while I have 6 mana out (can't remember if I tapped for something else or I was missing land drops) and I cast sphinx's revelation in response to slaughter games which draws me into a verdict for his guys but it leaves me at 6 life. Shortly after that I drew an aetherling, and had enough cards to deal with his thragtusk +token, and that was enough to close out the game.
Round 3: Junk Reanimator Lost 1-2
Game 1 I got hit by sin collector 3 seperate times (2 off resto triggers) and it was too big of a hole to dig out of. Game 2 I fought through 3 voice of resurgence, + Restos, slimes, and sin collectors; and eventually got Progenitor Mimic on a Wurm token which eventually ran him out of chump blockers and I won shortly after. Game 3 was more of the game 1 shenanigans but with him also hitting 2 Voice on turns 2 and 3.
Round 4: Bant Stuff Won 2-0
Paired against a friend for this round, I knew what he was playing and it's not really worth sharing any details since no one else in their right mind would play this list.
Round 5: ID into top 8
Top 8: Junk Reanimator Lost 1-2
Same guy from round 3, games played out pretty much the same except I tried a different board plan. Didn't do any better, or any worse really, so I'm not sure what my next move is going to be.
Observations: Aetherling is awesome. Jund cannot beat him as long as you don't run him out blind on turn 6. He is exactly the SB card I was looking for against Jund and other control decks. He will definitely be harder to resolve against control, but there should be a point in the late game where it's doable.
Reanimator- I'm at the point where I feel like the best plan against Reanimator is to be aggressive, and proactive. They have too much inevitability for us to sit back and try to play a reactive game against them. I'm currently leaning towards switching my 3 SB Deathrite Shamans too 2 Geist of Saint Traft and 1 Runechanters Pike. Those slots are only devoted to Reanimator right now, so at least the GoST and Pike can be used in other MU's, or when I hit a game 3 with 5-7 minutes left on the clock.
Still undecided on Loxodon Smiter. It is slightly useful against Jund, but I'm not sure if it's good enough against aggro or not. I'm considering keeping 1 and moving back to heroe's reunion, or feeling of dreadUnflinching Courage for the other 2 slots; but we will see.
This is what I'm currently considering moving forward:
I do agree Taking out Deathrite shamans is the right idea but why not 3 Geist and no Extra Pike or another Smiter.
No matter how many pikes we have even if we pay 2 life to scour on 1, drop pike on 2, Geist on 3 , equip and swing on 4 with Azorius Charm for Lifelink? We will have what 4 cards in the grave at most in a perfect world? So swing for 10? Why not have a Courage for a guaranteed 8 damage with 4 of it lifelink or another Smiter to drop on 4 after the Geist etc.
So overall question Why not add a 3rd Geist/3rd Unflinching Courage/2nd Smiter if Aggro is the plan?
Also I'm curious,why did you bring in a Renounce The Guilds vs Reanimator? Last I checked they have Slime,Angel,Thragtusk? Is there another card in your meta? Or was it straight Deadbridge Chant hate?
Hey guys, I'm still testing this deck, and plan to stick with it through the upcoming PTQ season.
My only troubles recently have been with Junk Rites and occasionally Esper control, depending on the build.
Can you guys post your Sideboard plans for me.
I'd like to see how many cards you guys are dedicating to each match, and what your taking out for them.
This is my current board.
2 Dispel
1 Dissipate
2 Deathrite shaman
1 Clone
1 Stolen Identity
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Renounce the Guilds
3 Feeling of Dread
1 Runechanters Pike
In the Reanimator match, I am not really liking the Deathrite Shamans. I find that the opposing Shamans make it difficult to get any value with it. Also, usually Purify the Grave is a Time Walk for 1 white, as its unexpected, but obviously Shaman works a little differently.
I do agree Taking out Deathrite shamans is the right idea but why not 3 Geist and no Extra Pike or another Smiter.
No matter how many pikes we have even if we pay 2 life to scour on 1, drop pike on 2, Geist on 3 , equip and swing on 4 with Azorius Charm for Lifelink? We will have what 4 cards in the grave at most in a perfect world? So swing for 10? Why not have a Courage for a guaranteed 8 damage with 4 of it lifelink or another Smiter to drop on 4 after the Geist etc.
So overall question Why not add a 3rd Geist/3rd Unflinching Courage/2nd Smiter if Aggro is the plan?
Also I'm curious,why did you bring in a Renounce The Guilds vs Reanimator? Last I checked they have Slime,Angel,Thragtusk? Is there another card in your meta? Or was it straight Deadbridge Chant hate?
The pike is more relevant when you are attacking in to acidic slimes, and its better with a knight token and moorland haunt. It may be better to just play 3 smiters instead of any geists so we don't have to work as hard to protect him, but I'm not sure on that yet.
I brought in renounce the guild because my opponent was maindecking at least 2 sin collectors, and I'm pretty sure he boarded in a third and at least 3 voice of resurgence. In the top 8 he also mulched an obzedat. I don't think I would bring in 2, and if my new sideboard stays intact I'm not sure I would bring in the first, but it seemed better than what I was cutting.
The pike is more relevant when you are attacking in to acidic slimes, and its better with a knight token and moorland haunt. It may be better to just play 3 smiters instead of any geists so we don't have to work as hard to protect him, but I'm not sure on that yet.
I brought in renounce the guild because my opponent was maindecking at least 2 sin collectors, and I'm pretty sure he boarded in a third and at least 3 voice of resurgence. In the top 8 he also mulched an obzedat. I don't think I would bring in 2, and if my new sideboard stays intact I'm not sure I would bring in the first, but it seemed better than what I was cutting.
Ok fair enough, if you're respecting the resto bounce I understand. I just figured bringing in an extra verdict or something would be a lot better than a 1/1.
And the only other reason I questioned Renounce was because of Geist and Smiter as well. I try to limit the matchups I bring both of them in in.
It's really only Bant Hexproof I risk bringing in Renounce and Smiter.
I didn't have Geist in my SB on Tuesday, just leaning towards adding him moving forward. I considered the poor interaction of Renounce and Smiter, but I knew he was bringing in Voice so I just was hoping it wouldn't come up, and it didn't.
I have a PTQ coming up on the 8th, and Reanimator is the only (popular) MU I'm not real confident in so I'm really hoping I come up with something that makes it better.
I didn't have Geist in my SB on Tuesday, just leaning towards adding him moving forward. I considered the poor interaction of Renounce and Smiter, but I knew he was bringing in Voice so I just was hoping it wouldn't come up, and it didn't.
I have a PTQ coming up on the 8th, and Reanimator is the only (popular) MU I'm not real confident in so I'm really hoping I come up with something that makes it better.
Yep Yep same here, I have an SCG IQ on Sunday and really only unsure in Reanimator but it has seen a tad decline at the place I play at. It has a few pro/high ranked players if they show up in Ospy Lebodowicz , Edgar Flores and some other players from that area if you know New York players. Other than that it's generally a TCG Gold level playing environment so you never know what people will pull out.
Hey guys, I'm still testing this deck, and plan to stick with it through the upcoming PTQ season.
My only troubles recently have been with Junk Rites and occasionally Esper control, depending on the build.
Can you guys post your Sideboard plans for me.
I'd like to see how many cards you guys are dedicating to each match, and what your taking out for them.
This is my current board.
2 Dispel
1 Dissipate
2 Deathrite shaman
1 Clone
1 Stolen Identity
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Renounce the Guilds
3 Feeling of Dread
1 Runechanters Pike
In the Reanimator match, I am not really liking the Deathrite Shamans. I find that the opposing Shamans make it difficult to get any value with it. Also, usually Purify the Grave is a Time Walk for 1 white, as its unexpected, but obviously Shaman works a little differently.
Anyways, thoughts are welcome!
Getting "set" on sideboard plans is generally a risky thing to do, but I'll show you the things I consider taking in and out for most MU's. I don't usually do all of it, but they are the things I potentially change, depending on what I see from my opponent and whatnot.
Hexproof
-2 Rewind
-1 Sphinx's Revelation
-1 Runechanter's Pike
-1 Thought Sour
-1 Augur of Bolas
-2 Azorius Charm
+2 Renounce the Guilds
+1 Supreme Verdict
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
+1 Loxodon Smiter
+2 Unflinching Courage
Reanimator
-3 Augur of Bolas
-3 Azorius Charm
+1 Progenitor Mimic
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
+1 Runechanters Pike
+1 Dissipate
+1 Supreme verdict
Aggro Decks
-1 Runechanter's Pike
-2 Rewind
-1 Sphinx's Revelation
-x Thought Scour
+2 Renounce the Guilds
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Loxodon Smiter
+2 Unflinching Courage
+2 Geist of Saint Traft (if you think you need to race)
Esper Control
-x ??? Depends on what you want to bring in, but probably some combination of charms
+2 Aetherling
+1 Dissipate
+2 Dispel
+1 Loxodon Smiter
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
+1 Runechanters Pike
In general I will start to take out Augur's before I lower my total Instant/Sorcery count by 4 or more. He gets a lot worse when you get down below 22.
Anybody have any thoughts on if this mana base would be too greedy?
2 Moorland Haunt
4 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
as someone who is missing a hinterland harbor and runs 2 forest 1 island, I think it can be really greedy, I sometimes get ****ed drawing the extra basic and such so I couldn't even imagine how bad that "could" be
Oh did I not have a good time with this at the SCG IQ Qualifer. Those new Naya decks and Green/white aggro. This deck did not look like it was in a good position.
Hard to say as 5/5 rounds I played were all aggro matchups. 3 Naya, 1 Green/White and 1 Red/Green but I'm not sure how I feel about the deck at the moment.
I've been wondering the same thing with all the naya decks popping up
Yeah this deck is starting to look like it had its week or two success but nowit's looking grim. Most of the people locally (most of which are decent players top 8 at 5ks and Pro Tour Qualifiers) told me they gave up on the deck a few weeks ago.
I may go back to UWR Midrange or Control. Thought I will still bring this every now and again to some fnms small tourneys preluding m14 release.
I have to admit it is getting harder for us to use this deck with all the weapons out there. I'm starting to think that the Voice Pike build that Costa was talking about may be a direction to go in. I think being more of a proactive deck rather than reactive (at least in the early game) is a huge benefit to helping us tackle the current meta.
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Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I was thinking something along the lines of cutting 1 Auger and 1 Snap and playing 2 maindeck Smiters, with the other 2 remaining in the board. Our 3 drop slot is open, and Smiter is just so good right now. It allows us to build an early board presence, and helps combat the aggro decks out there. That, and Auger just isn't cutting it for me. Ideas?
I'm not sure if that would even be enough. They have so many creatures that cause problems all the way up the curve. I have a ptq this weekend, and I'm trying to decide if I should jump ship, or just hope I avoid the MU; but that seems like a risky proposition considering its the new "hot deck".
I have a large event as well this weekend. I'm going to test my ass off, but I'm confident with my list. I'm going to test with main deck Smiters tomorrow. Ill post the results when I can. As it stands, I don't thank that match up is any worse then the hyper aggressive decks anyways.
That might be true, but the hyper aggressive decks were a small part of the Meta, and Naya is potentially the biggest part, if we base it on this past weekends top 8's.
If I stick with this deck, this is the list I'm currently at, for anyone who cares:
Yeah Smiter main board with Voice seems like the only way to go forward with this deck, but by doing that, you make thought scour a little worse, it forces you to dismantle the augur package and go back down to 2 angels if not 0.
At that point it doesn't feel like a very flashy deck, but I mean I guess snap angel advent is enough to warrant the distinction.
Though Centaur Healers/Smiters and Unflinching Courage is a great sideboard strat against aggro so we should try to keep with that consensus.
I played 2 Centaur Healers, 2 Unflinching Courage and 1 Feeling of Dread Sideboard.
If you make them smiters it gives you a lot of diversity and also better aggro matchup.
And I ran that maindeck above almost exactly I just had
1 More Snap
1 More Thought Scour
1 Cyclonic Rift instead of the Unsummon
1 More Azorius Charm
Played 5 rounds, winning 4 and losing the last round in 3.
I think people are way off base being worried about this new Naya deck being everywhere.
I am bringing in 2 Smiter 2 Unflinching Courage and 1-2 Feeling of Dread, and to great results.
To be honest, I still don't understand why everyone is complaining out aggro decks being a bad matchup.
This new version is much slower then the blitz decks, and I have found that resolving a wurm, and making them recast a 3 drop 2-3 times in a match makes for pretty easy wins.
Sure VoR can be a pain to deal with, but I think thats just it. Don't deal with it. Let it sit there and be a 2/2 and just change up your angle of attack. Use your bounce aggressively, force them to block with it, and bounce the token.
Listening to people talk the way they do about the aggro matches makes me believe that people are still trying to play this deck like a control deck.
This deck does not play like a reactive control deck. We have no hard removal. It will not work, so give it up.
Resolving a wurm puts them on a 4 turn clock. The idea is to resolve a wurm (or to a lesser extent a Resto Angel) and make sure that wurm gets into the red zone.
I frequently watch people blow all the cards in their hand trying to protect their life total early on (in order to stabilize) cast a threat and then try to ride it to the end, only to have to use that threat as a blocker because all their bounce has been used up, and eventually get over run as the opponent re-drops all their threats.
We need to remember that life is our most expendable resource, and that we can not play this deck reactively.
Stalling out and casting a Supreme Verdict will rarely win you matches.
I have cut my Sphinxs Revelations down to 2 (its too slow in the aggro match) I find that any game against an aggro deck where I have 2 sphinxs in my hand before turn 7 or 8, I lose. I think Supreme and Sphinxs are 2 of the most underwhelming cards in the deck Vs Aggro.
All in all, I'm trying to figure out why everyone is having such a hard time with aggro decks while i'm not.
Feel free to begin ripping apart what I just said.
Played 5 rounds, winning 4 and losing the last round in 3.
I think people are way off base being worried about this new Naya deck being everywhere.
I am bringing in 2 Smiter 2 Unflinching Courage and 1-2 Feeling of Dread, and to great results.
To be honest, I still don't understand why everyone is complaining out aggro decks being a bad matchup.
This new version is much slower then the blitz decks, and I have found that resolving a wurm, and making them recast a 3 drop 2-3 times in a match makes for pretty easy wins.
Sure VoR can be a pain to deal with, but I think thats just it. Don't deal with it. Let it sit there and be a 2/2 and just change up your angle of attack. Use your bounce aggressively, force them to block with it, and bounce the token.
Listening to people talk the way they do about the aggro matches makes me believe that people are still trying to play this deck like a control deck.
This deck does not play like a reactive control deck. We have no hard removal. It will not work, so give it up.
Resolving a wurm puts them on a 4 turn clock. The idea is to resolve a wurm (or to a lesser extent a Resto Angel) and make sure that wurm gets into the red zone.
I frequently watch people blow all the cards in their hand trying to protect their life total early on (in order to stabilize) cast a threat and then try to ride it to the end, only to have to use that threat as a blocker because all their bounce has been used up, and eventually get over run as the opponent re-drops all their threats.
We need to remember that life is our most expendable resource, and that we can not play this deck reactively.
Stalling out and casting a Supreme Verdict will rarely win you matches.
I have cut my Sphinxs Revelations down to 2 (its too slow in the aggro match) I find that any game against an aggro deck where I have 2 sphinxs in my hand before turn 7 or 8, I lose. I think Supreme and Sphinxs are 2 of the most underwhelming cards in the deck Vs Aggro.
All in all, I'm trying to figure out why everyone is having such a hard time with aggro decks while i'm not.
Feel free to begin ripping apart what I just said.
Everyone is bringing in the same cards and doing the same thing, there is a reason this deck is no where to be found competitively seeing as people like Gerry Thompson tried to play it, he is a pretty big name and most of his fanboys follow him from deck to deck.
It's not consistent, and until you take it to a tournament of high standing and not testing on cockatrice, you'll understand why. I don't mean to be a dick but I feel you're basing things off the baddies on cockatrice who net deck after every SCG. As much as you say you have any easy times, what have you taken it too, and how have you performed with it? I loved this deck and never lost on cockatrice testing to most aggro decks maybe I was 8/10 out of every match.
I'm not even gonna say I am the best player and I don't lose games to bad decisions and not being as experienced, but when two/three players I know locally who have both top 8ed 5ks, PTQs and SCG Opens and have played Magic and other TCGs for about 8 years, played this deck and didn't like it/said it just folds/Said it was good for a week, I'm gonna also have to concur and say the deck is just not in a good position.
I mean just look at the cards:
Augur of Bolas = No other top decks atm run him
Restoration Angel = No other top decks atm run her
Advent of The Wurm = Our bread and butter is being ran in AGGRO Decks for christ's sake.
I hate to be the debbie downer but it seems this list needs a complete overhaul in which it won't even be/look the same.
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1 of Sideboard with a 1 of Curse of Echoes as well.
Put in:
2 Progenitor Mimic
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Dissipate
Take out:
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Augur of Bolas
I play Aggro really early get in damage, save counterspells for the rites then flash in the wurm. If you put on enough pressure they will be forced to Thragtusk with their rites as opposed to trying to get cute with Slime/Angel.
I will normally Selesyna Charm on turn 2 for a beater if the option is there. Sometimes I will do it again on 3 as well. I know you need it for the exile but with Snaps you'll be alright.
Also if you sense the Slime route, save simic charm for that.
Progen mimic on Thragtusk/Your Own Wurm/Angel/Slime.
Just make sure when you mimic you save Simic Charm or Counterspell mana.
Once you get the mimic to make at least one copy of an Angel or Slime especially, and you get to untap, it gets really bad for them with their lack of board wipe or solid removal.
3 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Augur of Bolas
Others
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Azorius Charm
2 Rewind
1 Runechanter's Pike
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Simic Charm
2 Syncopate
3 Thought Scour
2 Unsummon
4 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Aetherling
1 Progenitor Mimic
2 Renounce the Guilds
2 Dispel
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Loxodon Smiter
Round 1: Bant Hexproof won 2-0
Don't remember much about the first game. I stabilized at 6 life after casting Supreme Verdict and was able to use a Wurm token to finish the game. Game 2 I went to 6 and my opponent went to 5 keeping Forest, Avacyns Pilgrim, Geist of Saint Traft, Loxodon Smiter, Unflinching Courage but never hit a second land.
SB: -2 Rewind, -2 Azorius Charm, -1 Runechanter's Pike, -1 Sphinx's Revelation, -1 Thought Scour +3 Loxodon Smiter, +2 Renounce the Guilds, +2 Supreme Verdict
Round 2: Jund won 2-1
Game 1 I kept a 7 card hand with 2 syncopates and an advent of the wurm and drew into a rewind and 2 snapcasters, which was more than enough to take care of his threats. Game 2 he hits Huntmaster of the Fells on turns 3-5, and I can only struggle for so long before I am toast. Game 3 he hits turn 3 & 4 huntmaster and we trade resources for awhile (with him staying ahead). He casts a Slaughter Games while I have 6 mana out (can't remember if I tapped for something else or I was missing land drops) and I cast sphinx's revelation in response to slaughter games which draws me into a verdict for his guys but it leaves me at 6 life. Shortly after that I drew an aetherling, and had enough cards to deal with his thragtusk +token, and that was enough to close out the game.
SB: -3 Augur of Bolas, -3 Azorius Charm + 2 Aetherling, +1 Renounce the Guilds, +1 Supreme Verdict, +2 Loxodon Smiter
Round 3: Junk Reanimator Lost 1-2
Game 1 I got hit by sin collector 3 seperate times (2 off resto triggers) and it was too big of a hole to dig out of. Game 2 I fought through 3 voice of resurgence, + Restos, slimes, and sin collectors; and eventually got Progenitor Mimic on a Wurm token which eventually ran him out of chump blockers and I won shortly after. Game 3 was more of the game 1 shenanigans but with him also hitting 2 Voice on turns 2 and 3.
Definitely the toughest MU for us
SB: -3 Azorius Charm, -3 Augur of Bolas +1 Progenitor Mimic, +3 Deathrite Shaman, +1 Renounce the Guilds, +1 Supreme Verdict
Round 4: Bant Stuff Won 2-0
Paired against a friend for this round, I knew what he was playing and it's not really worth sharing any details since no one else in their right mind would play this list.
Round 5: ID into top 8
Top 8: Junk Reanimator Lost 1-2
Same guy from round 3, games played out pretty much the same except I tried a different board plan. Didn't do any better, or any worse really, so I'm not sure what my next move is going to be.
Observations:
Aetherling is awesome. Jund cannot beat him as long as you don't run him out blind on turn 6. He is exactly the SB card I was looking for against Jund and other control decks. He will definitely be harder to resolve against control, but there should be a point in the late game where it's doable.
Reanimator- I'm at the point where I feel like the best plan against Reanimator is to be aggressive, and proactive. They have too much inevitability for us to sit back and try to play a reactive game against them. I'm currently leaning towards switching my 3 SB Deathrite Shamans too 2 Geist of Saint Traft and 1 Runechanters Pike. Those slots are only devoted to Reanimator right now, so at least the GoST and Pike can be used in other MU's, or when I hit a game 3 with 5-7 minutes left on the clock.
Still undecided on Loxodon Smiter. It is slightly useful against Jund, but I'm not sure if it's good enough against aggro or not. I'm considering keeping 1 and moving back to
heroe's reunion, or feeling of dreadUnflinching Courage for the other 2 slots; but we will see.This is what I'm currently considering moving forward:
3 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Augur of Bolas
Others
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Azorius Charm
2 Rewind
1 Runechanter's Pike
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Simic Charm
2 Syncopate
3 Thought Scour
2 Unsummon
4 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Aetherling
1 Progenitor Mimic
2 Renounce the Guilds
1 Dissipate
2 Dispel
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Loxodon Smiter
2 Unflinching Courage
I do agree Taking out Deathrite shamans is the right idea but why not 3 Geist and no Extra Pike or another Smiter.
No matter how many pikes we have even if we pay 2 life to scour on 1, drop pike on 2, Geist on 3 , equip and swing on 4 with Azorius Charm for Lifelink? We will have what 4 cards in the grave at most in a perfect world? So swing for 10? Why not have a Courage for a guaranteed 8 damage with 4 of it lifelink or another Smiter to drop on 4 after the Geist etc.
So overall question Why not add a 3rd Geist/3rd Unflinching Courage/2nd Smiter if Aggro is the plan?
Also I'm curious,why did you bring in a Renounce The Guilds vs Reanimator? Last I checked they have Slime,Angel,Thragtusk? Is there another card in your meta? Or was it straight Deadbridge Chant hate?
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Breeding Pool
3 Hinterland Harbor
3 Temple Garden
3 Sunpetal Grove
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Moorland Haunt
Creatures: 9
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Restoration Angel
3 Augur of Bolas
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Thought Scour
2 Rewind
1 Syncopate
4 Azorius Charm
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Simic Charm
1 Cyclonic Rift
Sorcery: 2
2 Supreme Verdict
Artifacts: 1
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Feeling of Dread
1 Curse of Echoes
3 Renounce the Guilds
1 Dissipate
2 Dispel
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Aetherling
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Unflinching Courage
My only troubles recently have been with Junk Rites and occasionally Esper control, depending on the build.
Can you guys post your Sideboard plans for me.
I'd like to see how many cards you guys are dedicating to each match, and what your taking out for them.
This is my current board.
2 Dispel
1 Dissipate
2 Deathrite shaman
1 Clone
1 Stolen Identity
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Renounce the Guilds
3 Feeling of Dread
1 Runechanters Pike
In the Reanimator match, I am not really liking the Deathrite Shamans. I find that the opposing Shamans make it difficult to get any value with it. Also, usually Purify the Grave is a Time Walk for 1 white, as its unexpected, but obviously Shaman works a little differently.
Anyways, thoughts are welcome!
The pike is more relevant when you are attacking in to acidic slimes, and its better with a knight token and moorland haunt. It may be better to just play 3 smiters instead of any geists so we don't have to work as hard to protect him, but I'm not sure on that yet.
I brought in renounce the guild because my opponent was maindecking at least 2 sin collectors, and I'm pretty sure he boarded in a third and at least 3 voice of resurgence. In the top 8 he also mulched an obzedat. I don't think I would bring in 2, and if my new sideboard stays intact I'm not sure I would bring in the first, but it seemed better than what I was cutting.
Ok fair enough, if you're respecting the resto bounce I understand. I just figured bringing in an extra verdict or something would be a lot better than a 1/1.
And the only other reason I questioned Renounce was because of Geist and Smiter as well. I try to limit the matchups I bring both of them in in.
It's really only Bant Hexproof I risk bringing in Renounce and Smiter.
I have a PTQ coming up on the 8th, and Reanimator is the only (popular) MU I'm not real confident in so I'm really hoping I come up with something that makes it better.
Yep Yep same here, I have an SCG IQ on Sunday and really only unsure in Reanimator but it has seen a tad decline at the place I play at. It has a few pro/high ranked players if they show up in Ospy Lebodowicz , Edgar Flores and some other players from that area if you know New York players. Other than that it's generally a TCG Gold level playing environment so you never know what people will pull out.
Getting "set" on sideboard plans is generally a risky thing to do, but I'll show you the things I consider taking in and out for most MU's. I don't usually do all of it, but they are the things I potentially change, depending on what I see from my opponent and whatnot.
Hexproof
-2 Rewind
-1 Sphinx's Revelation
-1 Runechanter's Pike
-1 Thought Sour
-1 Augur of Bolas
-2 Azorius Charm
+2 Renounce the Guilds
+1 Supreme Verdict
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
+1 Loxodon Smiter
+2 Unflinching Courage
Jund
-3 Augur of Bolas
-3 Azorius Charm
+2 Aetherling
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Dissipate
+1 Runechanters Pike
+1 Loxodon Smiter
Reanimator
-3 Augur of Bolas
-3 Azorius Charm
+1 Progenitor Mimic
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
+1 Runechanters Pike
+1 Dissipate
+1 Supreme verdict
Aggro Decks
-1 Runechanter's Pike
-2 Rewind
-1 Sphinx's Revelation
-x Thought Scour
+2 Renounce the Guilds
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Loxodon Smiter
+2 Unflinching Courage
+2 Geist of Saint Traft (if you think you need to race)
Esper Control
-x ??? Depends on what you want to bring in, but probably some combination of charms
+2 Aetherling
+1 Dissipate
+2 Dispel
+1 Loxodon Smiter
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
+1 Runechanters Pike
In general I will start to take out Augur's before I lower my total Instant/Sorcery count by 4 or more. He gets a lot worse when you get down below 22.
2 Moorland Haunt
4 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
as someone who is missing a hinterland harbor and runs 2 forest 1 island, I think it can be really greedy, I sometimes get ****ed drawing the extra basic and such so I couldn't even imagine how bad that "could" be
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Restoration Angel
2x Augur Bolas
1x Wolfir Avenger
Spells: 26
4x Azorius Charm
2x Selesnya Charm
2x Unsummon
1x Syncopate
3x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Think Twice
3x Thought Scour
2x Supreme Verdict
2x Rewind
4x Advent of the Wurm
1x Dissipate
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Sunpetal Grove
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Breeding Pool
3x Temple Garden
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
Sb is under development. I have no idea what my local meta game will consist of, so it seemed silly to put too much thought into it right now.
Let me know what you think
BUGShardless SultaiBUG
Modern
URSplinter TwinUR
BWGAbzan MidrangeBWG
Standard
URWJeskai TokensURW
Hard to say as 5/5 rounds I played were all aggro matchups. 3 Naya, 1 Green/White and 1 Red/Green but I'm not sure how I feel about the deck at the moment.
Yeah this deck is starting to look like it had its week or two success but nowit's looking grim. Most of the people locally (most of which are decent players top 8 at 5ks and Pro Tour Qualifiers) told me they gave up on the deck a few weeks ago.
I may go back to UWR Midrange or Control. Thought I will still bring this every now and again to some fnms small tourneys preluding m14 release.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
If I stick with this deck, this is the list I'm currently at, for anyone who cares:
4 Breeding Pool
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
Creatures
3 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Augur of Bolas
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Azorius Charm
2 Rewind
1 Runechanter's Pike
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Simic Charm
2 Syncopate
3 Thought Scour
2 Unsummon
2 Aetherling
1 Renounce the Guilds
1 Dissipate
1 Negate
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Jace Architect of Thought
1 Tamiyo the Moon Sage
2 Loxodon Smiter
1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
2 Unflinching Courage
At that point it doesn't feel like a very flashy deck, but I mean I guess snap angel advent is enough to warrant the distinction.
Though Centaur Healers/Smiters and Unflinching Courage is a great sideboard strat against aggro so we should try to keep with that consensus.
I played 2 Centaur Healers, 2 Unflinching Courage and 1 Feeling of Dread Sideboard.
If you make them smiters it gives you a lot of diversity and also better aggro matchup.
And I ran that maindeck above almost exactly I just had
1 More Snap
1 More Thought Scour
1 Cyclonic Rift instead of the Unsummon
1 More Azorius Charm
Played 5 rounds, winning 4 and losing the last round in 3.
I think people are way off base being worried about this new Naya deck being everywhere.
I am bringing in 2 Smiter 2 Unflinching Courage and 1-2 Feeling of Dread, and to great results.
To be honest, I still don't understand why everyone is complaining out aggro decks being a bad matchup.
This new version is much slower then the blitz decks, and I have found that resolving a wurm, and making them recast a 3 drop 2-3 times in a match makes for pretty easy wins.
Sure VoR can be a pain to deal with, but I think thats just it. Don't deal with it. Let it sit there and be a 2/2 and just change up your angle of attack. Use your bounce aggressively, force them to block with it, and bounce the token.
Listening to people talk the way they do about the aggro matches makes me believe that people are still trying to play this deck like a control deck.
This deck does not play like a reactive control deck. We have no hard removal. It will not work, so give it up.
Resolving a wurm puts them on a 4 turn clock. The idea is to resolve a wurm (or to a lesser extent a Resto Angel) and make sure that wurm gets into the red zone.
I frequently watch people blow all the cards in their hand trying to protect their life total early on (in order to stabilize) cast a threat and then try to ride it to the end, only to have to use that threat as a blocker because all their bounce has been used up, and eventually get over run as the opponent re-drops all their threats.
We need to remember that life is our most expendable resource, and that we can not play this deck reactively.
Stalling out and casting a Supreme Verdict will rarely win you matches.
I have cut my Sphinxs Revelations down to 2 (its too slow in the aggro match) I find that any game against an aggro deck where I have 2 sphinxs in my hand before turn 7 or 8, I lose. I think Supreme and Sphinxs are 2 of the most underwhelming cards in the deck Vs Aggro.
All in all, I'm trying to figure out why everyone is having such a hard time with aggro decks while i'm not.
Feel free to begin ripping apart what I just said.
Everyone is bringing in the same cards and doing the same thing, there is a reason this deck is no where to be found competitively seeing as people like Gerry Thompson tried to play it, he is a pretty big name and most of his fanboys follow him from deck to deck.
It's not consistent, and until you take it to a tournament of high standing and not testing on cockatrice, you'll understand why. I don't mean to be a dick but I feel you're basing things off the baddies on cockatrice who net deck after every SCG. As much as you say you have any easy times, what have you taken it too, and how have you performed with it? I loved this deck and never lost on cockatrice testing to most aggro decks maybe I was 8/10 out of every match.
I'm not even gonna say I am the best player and I don't lose games to bad decisions and not being as experienced, but when two/three players I know locally who have both top 8ed 5ks, PTQs and SCG Opens and have played Magic and other TCGs for about 8 years, played this deck and didn't like it/said it just folds/Said it was good for a week, I'm gonna also have to concur and say the deck is just not in a good position.
I mean just look at the cards:
Augur of Bolas = No other top decks atm run him
Restoration Angel = No other top decks atm run her
Advent of The Wurm = Our bread and butter is being ran in AGGRO Decks for christ's sake.
I hate to be the debbie downer but it seems this list needs a complete overhaul in which it won't even be/look the same.