Bant Flash

  • #227
    Hello everybody. I'm going to play Bant Flash for GameDay, I really like this deck because it fits my playstyle. I'm here asking for help especially for the sideboard.

    This is my current list:
    Garindan's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creature (9)
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Wolfir Avenger
    3 Restoration Angel

    Instant (23)
    4 Advent of the Wurm
    4 Azorius Charm
    2 Selesnya Charm
    2 Syncopate
    1 Dissipate
    1 Rewind
    2 Sphinx's Revelation
    4 Think Twice
    2 Unsummon
    1 Renounce the Guilds

    Artifact (1)
    1 Runechanter's Pike

    Sorcery (2)
    2 Supreme Verdict

    Land (25)
    4 Breeding Pool
    4 Hallowed Fountain
    3 Temple Garden
    4 Glacial Fortress
    3 Hinterland Harbor
    3 Sunpetal Grove
    2 Island
    1 Forest
    1 Moorland Haunt



    Yes, I'm playing Wolfir Avenger instead of Augur of Bolas. They're very different cards, but Wolfir is a better blocker, beater, is harder to remove, doesn't force me to tap out and so on. They fill different roles I know, but I find Wolfir to be more suited for my deck.

    I'm also playing 4 Think Twice and 0 Thought Scour. I feel like the card advantage fromt TT is very relevant in 'slower' matchups (midrange and control), but still I would play a 2/3 split if I only had a free slot... no Thought Scour hurts my mono-Runechanter's Pyke a bit, but the most important thing from Pyke is first strike and a small damage boost (up to 5 power for my creatures is enough).

    The rest of the maindeck is pretty standard, I'd play one more Selesnya Charm but I really don't know what to cut.

    I'm currently testing Feeling of Dread in the sideboard, it's my answer to aggro together with one more Supreme Verdict. The other option is Druid's Deliverance, which is good as a simple fog, as an instant populate effect, or both, and also great with Snapcaster Mage around. I don't really know which is better.

    The other tech is AEtherling. It's great against midrange and control, as they usually don't see it coming when tapping out for a Terminus or Obzedat, Ghost Council. I used to run another 1x in the MB, but later I cut him because I didn't like having him in my hand against faster decks.

    What should I add to sideboard? Maybe a couple Ghost Quarter?

    Comment and criticism is really appreciated here Kekeke
  • #228
    Quote from Garindan
    Hello everybody. I'm going to play Bant Flash for GameDay, I really like this deck because it fits my playstyle. I'm here asking for help especially for the sideboard.

    This is my current list:
    LordGrimpow's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creature (9)
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Wolfir Avenger
    3 Restoration Angel

    Instant (23)
    4 Advent of the Wurm
    4 Azorius Charm
    2 Selesnya Charm
    2 Syncopate
    1 Dissipate
    1 Rewind
    2 Sphinx's Revelation
    4 Think Twice
    2 Unsummon
    1 Renounce the Guilds

    Artifact (1)
    1 Runechanter's Pike

    Sorcery (2)
    2 Supreme Verdict

    Land (25)
    4 Breeding Pool
    4 Hallowed Fountain
    3 Temple Garden
    4 Glacial Fortress
    3 Hinterland Harbor
    3 Sunpetal Grove
    2 Island
    1 Forest
    1 Moorland Haunt



    Yes, I'm playing Wolfir Avenger instead of Augur of Bolas. They're very different cards, but Wolfir is a better blocker, beater, is harder to remove, doesn't force me to tap out and so on. They fill different roles I know, but I find Wolfir to be more suited for my deck.

    I'm also playing 4 Think Twice and 0 Thought Scour. I feel like the card advantage fromt TT is very relevant in 'slower' matchups (midrange and control), but still I would play a 2/3 split if I only had a free slot... no Thought Scour hurts my mono-Runechanter's Pyke a bit, but the most important thing from Pyke is first strike and a small damage boost (up to 5 power for my creatures is enough).

    The rest of the maindeck is pretty standard, I'd play one more Selesnya Charm but I really don't know what to cut.

    I'm currently testing Feeling of Dread in the sideboard, it's my answer to aggro together with one more Supreme Verdict. The other option is Druid's Deliverance, which is good as a simple fog, as an instant populate effect, or both, and also great with Snapcaster Mage around. I don't really know which is better.

    The other tech is AEtherling. It's great against midrange and control, as they usually don't see it coming when tapping out for a Terminus or Obzedat, Ghost Council. I used to run another 1x in the MB, but later I cut him because I didn't like having him in my hand against faster decks.

    What should I add to sideboard? Maybe a couple Ghost Quarter?

    Comment and criticism is really appreciated here Kekeke


    The thing with Thought Scour vs Think Twice. Not only does Thought Scour work in conjunction with Runechanter's Pike, but it also works with Azorius Charm as a sort of removal option. Sure its 2 cards to kill one creature but you also get a draw out of it and prevent some damage. I've done that quite often to great effect against beastly creatures.

    With Augur vs Wolfir, Wolfir can survive better yes, but if its the early game it doesn't as you need 5 mana then to protect it. Which by the time that becomes relevant in an aggro matchup, Augur would have been the better option for blocking. Coming down one turn sooner and possibly preventing any attacks for that turn is perhaps even more relevant than Wolfir. Not to mention netting a card that can save you sooner. Wolfir is also less relevant against Bant Auras (which is one of our worst matchups due to the hexproof). The reason is most of the time wolfir won't be able to chump enough of their creatures when many of their enchantments give evasion in one form or another. Augur comes down a turn sooner and can net you the answer you need that much sooner (while blocking an equal amount of damage) which is much more relevant.

    As for Feeling of Dread, there has been much debate over that, Druid's Deliverance, or Heroes' Reunion. I suggest reading this:
    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10229595&postcount=179
    If you don't see a lot of Voice of Resurgence, but Aggro is big in your area then Feeling of Dread or Druid's Deliverance would be decent. Probably Deliverance as it has the potential to stop more damage while netting you a 2nd 5/5. If you do see a lot of them, then I suggest Heroes' Reunion which is essentially a mini-fog that you can cast on your own turn and still have relevance.

    I'm not sure how I feel about Aetherling, however if you're intention is to play it against control (while yes they certainly wouldn't expect it), you have to actually resolve it for it to be relevant. I guess the element of surprise might give you an upperhand there, but control decks typically run more counterspells than we do. While it is a great card and nearly impossible to kill, I just don't know there.

    SIGNATURE MADE BY LORDGRIMPOW. Like the sig? Check out my others here.
  • #229
    Quote from Garindan
    Hello everybody. I'm going to play Bant Flash for GameDay, I really like this deck because it fits my playstyle. I'm here asking for help especially for the sideboard.

    This is my current list:
    VeroProDiGY's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creature (9)
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Wolfir Avenger
    3 Restoration Angel

    Instant (23)
    4 Advent of the Wurm
    4 Azorius Charm
    2 Selesnya Charm
    2 Syncopate
    1 Dissipate
    1 Rewind
    2 Sphinx's Revelation
    4 Think Twice
    2 Unsummon
    1 Renounce the Guilds

    Artifact (1)
    1 Runechanter's Pike

    Sorcery (2)
    2 Supreme Verdict

    Land (25)
    4 Breeding Pool
    4 Hallowed Fountain
    3 Temple Garden
    4 Glacial Fortress
    3 Hinterland Harbor
    3 Sunpetal Grove
    2 Island
    1 Forest
    1 Moorland Haunt



    Yes, I'm playing Wolfir Avenger instead of Augur of Bolas. They're very different cards, but Wolfir is a better blocker, beater, is harder to remove, doesn't force me to tap out and so on. They fill different roles I know, but I find Wolfir to be more suited for my deck.

    I'm also playing 4 Think Twice and 0 Thought Scour. I feel like the card advantage fromt TT is very relevant in 'slower' matchups (midrange and control), but still I would play a 2/3 split if I only had a free slot... no Thought Scour hurts my mono-Runechanter's Pyke a bit, but the most important thing from Pyke is first strike and a small damage boost (up to 5 power for my creatures is enough).

    The rest of the maindeck is pretty standard, I'd play one more Selesnya Charm but I really don't know what to cut.

    I'm currently testing Feeling of Dread in the sideboard, it's my answer to aggro together with one more Supreme Verdict. The other option is Druid's Deliverance, which is good as a simple fog, as an instant populate effect, or both, and also great with Snapcaster Mage around. I don't really know which is better.

    The other tech is AEtherling. It's great against midrange and control, as they usually don't see it coming when tapping out for a Terminus or Obzedat, Ghost Council. I used to run another 1x in the MB, but later I cut him because I didn't like having him in my hand against faster decks.

    What should I add to sideboard? Maybe a couple Ghost Quarter?

    Comment and criticism is really appreciated here Kekeke


    The one thing that confused me about your deck is that you concede the fact that Wolfir is worse than Augur against aggro, but better against control midrange.
    You also concede the fact Think Twice is better against midrange and control than thought scour

    Now looking at your sideboard you have about 5 -7 cards to deal with control and midrange, while only 2 to deal with aggro ie Feeling of Dread and then an over abundance of cards that are all spread out to deal with the Hexproof matchup in which as previously stated Wolfir is Inferior in comparison to Augur.

    Now I don't mean to harp on you, but if your reasoning for playing Wolfir/Think Twice etc is for the midrange/control matchups then it would leave one to believe you don't need cards like Psychic Spiral,Aetherling,Clone etc in the sideboard.If you are confident in Wolfir Avenger/Think Twice/Pike why mini stack your sideboard for even MORE control and midrange cards but still leave it rather weak against Aggro.

    Just my 2 Cents,

    Take out 1 Psychic Spiral,1 Naturalize,1 Ray of Revelation 1 Runechanter's Pike and 1 Clone
    Add in 1 Renounce the Guilds , 2 Simic Charms, 1 dispel, 1 Progenitor Mimic

    This way it makes the side in/sideouts a lot easier for a lot of the matchups and now in my opinion you are more equipped for Aggro/Hexproof and your Re animator matchup is stronger. You also have consistency in your removal and not hoping you draw Card A in A scenario. Now you can Draw Card A in A B and C Scenario.

    I don't 100% disagree with the wolfir avenger, I just disagree with some of the other card choices based around him and now with most of the changes I recommended I feel your matchups that you concede game 1 too become a lot more stronger and more consistent games 2 and 3 in comparison the various array of enchantment hates and tapdown effects you had previously.

    P.S. Personally I like Heroes' Reunion over Feeling of Dread for the sideboard I layed out but I am still confident it can be pulled off with Feeling of Dread. I would also try to find a place for an extra Selesyna Charm in your 75.
    Last edited by VeroProDiGY: 5/24/2013 10:47:07 AM
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #230
    What I'll be running for the next few weeks. Locked in on a list now I am gonna ride the wave for some strict testing:

    VeroProDiGY's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands: 25
    4 Hallowed Fountain
    4 Glacial Fortress
    4 Breeding Pool
    3 Hinterland Harbor
    3 Temple Garden
    3 Sunpetal Grove
    1 Forest
    2 Island
    1 Moorland Haunt

    Creatures: 9
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Restoration Angel
    3 Augur of Bolas

    Instants: 23
    4 Advent of the Wurm
    3 Thought Scour
    2 Rewind
    1 Syncopate
    4 Azorius Charm
    3 Selesnya Charm
    3 Sphinx's Revelation
    2 Simic Charm
    1 Cyclonic Rift

    Sorcery: 2
    2 Supreme Verdict

    Artifacts: 1
    1 Runechanter's Pike



    ***Keynotes***

    Highly contemplating a Second Moorland Haunt, card is surprisingly amazing for this deck not only with pike but just getting in on the slower grindy midrange/control decks, have forced out many of removal spells on 1/1 spirit. Also really helps against Deathrite Shaman if you do it on their turn, or bait something for Snapcaster.

    Going on the Reactive Train for Reanimator Matchup. Sometimes Purify just isn't enough/is irrelevant if they rush the Acidic Slime, as most Reanimator decks like to do now a days. Giving them a lot of pushes with Augur, Moorland , Angels and Wurms really wears their removal thin, and that is when it is perfect time to drop a Progenitor Mimic and just keep recurring Acidic Slime, Thragtusk, Voice, Sin Collector, Augur of Bolas list goes on. Also Simic Charm Hexproof for Acidic Slime Shenanigans

    Simic Charm, definitely another tech I am keeping.

    Pretty set in on always running 3 Augur of Bolas. Still unsure if to go to 3 Restoration Angel and down to 3 Snapcaster Mage but as I said I am going to grind this out for a while.

    Countermagic: Pretty set on 2 Rewind 1 Syncopate If Bant matchups or some Burning Tree Decks start getting really bad I may consider dropping an Unsummon for another Syncopate/ Essence Scatter Also Sold on the sideboard setup of 2 Dispel , 1 Negate and 1 Dissipate . Dispel is huge for resolving your Curse of Echoes , while Negate and Dissipate are amazing for hedging counter magic for Midrange and Reanimator respectively.

    Thought Scour , Definitely sold on Thought Scour over Think Twice. The 1 mana is so huge, the dig is amazing along with Augur and Sphinx's Revelation and the Synergy with Runechanter's Pike Ray of Revelation and Snapcaster Mage is unmatched.

    Sold on Heroes' Reunion for aggro sideboard matchup thought depending on the meta week to week, I am highly considering Druid's Deliverance for fog effect and synergy with Selesyna Charm and Advent of The Wurm


    ***Quick Ninja Update***:

    I have taken out 2 Heroes' Reunion and 2 Terminus for 2 Supreme Verdicts,and 2 Feeling of Dread while moving 1 Renounce The Guild to the side for 1 Selesyna Charm to the main.

    ******
    All testing so far has been done on about 100 Cockatrice Games, a Tuesday Night Standard Tourney and a Friday Night Magic.

    Will be going to about 2 FNMs, 1 Game Day, 3 Tuesday Night Tourneys and possible a TCG Gold Event before I come back with more reporting.

    Happy Hunting!

    ******
    Last edited by VeroProDiGY: 5/25/2013 10:48:10 PM
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #231
    Quote from LordGrimpow
    The thing with Thought Scour vs Think Twice. Not only does Thought Scour work in conjunction with Runechanter's Pike, but it also works with Azorius Charm as a sort of removal option. Sure its 2 cards to kill one creature but you also get a draw out of it and prevent some damage. I've done that quite often to great effect against beastly creatures.

    With Augur vs Wolfir, Wolfir can survive better yes, but if its the early game it doesn't as you need 5 mana then to protect it. Which by the time that becomes relevant in an aggro matchup, Augur would have been the better option for blocking. Coming down one turn sooner and possibly preventing any attacks for that turn is perhaps even more relevant than Wolfir. Not to mention netting a card that can save you sooner. Wolfir is also less relevant against Bant Auras (which is one of our worst matchups due to the hexproof). The reason is most of the time wolfir won't be able to chump enough of their creatures when many of their enchantments give evasion in one form or another. Augur comes down a turn sooner and can net you the answer you need that much sooner (while blocking an equal amount of damage) which is much more relevant.

    As for Feeling of Dread, there has been much debate over that, Druid's Deliverance, or Heroes' Reunion. I suggest reading this:
    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10229595&postcount=179
    If you don't see a lot of Voice of Resurgence, but Aggro is big in your area then Feeling of Dread or Druid's Deliverance would be decent. Probably Deliverance as it has the potential to stop more damage while netting you a 2nd 5/5. If you do see a lot of them, then I suggest Heroes' Reunion which is essentially a mini-fog that you can cast on your own turn and still have relevance.

    I'm not sure how I feel about Aetherling, however if you're intention is to play it against control (while yes they certainly wouldn't expect it), you have to actually resolve it for it to be relevant. I guess the element of surprise might give you an upperhand there, but control decks typically run more counterspells than we do. While it is a great card and nearly impossible to kill, I just don't know there.

    Good point on Thought Scour, that's a really good use. I'm going to test both, because I really like the card advantage from Think Twice, even though I admit that Thought Scour is more suited for this deck.

    The things I don't like about Augur of Bolas are:
    1) I have to tap out to play him. On turn 2 I want to be open for an Azorius Charm, Selesnya Charm, Unsummon and so on.
    2) He's 1/3 while most aggro threats are 2/2 or more, or don't care about dying (Gravecrawler, Strangleroot Geist etc). He's a wall most of the time.
    3) He's a poor beater
    On the other hand, Wolfir Avenger is a champ at blocking 2/2s even in the early game (it's a bit risky but it's a 1x1 at worse), and it's very difficult to deal with if I have 1G open. I actually play Faeries in Modern, and I know how important is to flash in blockers/attackers to change your race. I just need to test more, maybe I'll switch back to Augur.


    Quote from VeroProDiGY
    The one thing that confused me about your deck is that you concede the fact that Wolfir is worse than Augur against aggro, but better against control midrange.
    You also concede the fact Think Twice is better against midrange and control than thought scour

    Now looking at your sideboard you have about 5 -7 cards to deal with control and midrange, while only 2 to deal with aggro ie Feeling of Dread and then an over abundance of cards that are all spread out to deal with the Hexproof matchup in which as previously stated Wolfir is Inferior in comparison to Augur.

    Now I don't mean to harp on you, but if your reasoning for playing Wolfir/Think Twice etc is for the midrange/control matchups then it would leave one to believe you don't need cards like Psychic Spiral,Aetherling,Clone etc in the sideboard.If you are confident in Wolfir Avenger/Think Twice/Pike why mini stack your sideboard for even MORE control and midrange cards but still leave it rather weak against Aggro.

    Just my 2 Cents,

    Take out 1 Psychic Spiral,1 Naturalize,1 Ray of Revelation 1 Runechanter's Pike and 1 Clone
    Add in 1 Renounce the Guilds , 2 Simic Charms, 1 dispel, 1 Progenitor Mimic

    This way it makes the side in/sideouts a lot easier for a lot of the matchups and now in my opinion you are more equipped for Aggro/Hexproof and your Re animator matchup is stronger. You also have consistency in your removal and not hoping you draw Card A in A scenario. Now you can Draw Card A in A B and C Scenario.

    I don't 100% disagree with the wolfir avenger, I just disagree with some of the other card choices based around him and now with most of the changes I recommended I feel your matchups that you concede game 1 too become a lot more stronger and more consistent games 2 and 3 in comparison the various array of enchantment hates and tapdown effects you had previously.

    P.S. Personally I like Heroes' Reunion over Feeling of Dread for the sideboard I layed out but I am still confident it can be pulled off with Feeling of Dread. I would also try to find a place for an extra Selesyna Charm in your 75.

    You're right, I actually have some problems siding against aggro. I think I'll do:
    -1 Naturalize -1 Runechanter's Pyke
    +2 Simic Charm
    I'm also thinking of 1-2 Terminus, and Progenitor Mimic instead of Clone.

    The extra Selesnya Charm would be great, but what should I cut? Maybe the Dissipate?
    I don't really like Heroes' Reunion, the card is good but it's more of a personal preference. I feel like Feeling of Dread and Druid's Deliverance are more versatile, because they can be used both as offense or defense.
  • #232
    Quote from Garindan »
    The things I don't like about Augur of Bolas are:
    1) I have to tap out to play him. On turn 2 I want to be open for an Azorius Charm, Selesnya Charm, Unsummon and so on.
    2) He's 1/3 while most aggro threats are 2/2 or more, or don't care about dying (Gravecrawler, Strangleroot Geist etc). He's a wall most of the time.
    3) He's a poor beater
    On the other hand, Wolfir Avenger is a champ at blocking 2/2s even in the early game (it's a bit risky but it's a 1x1 at worse), and it's very difficult to deal with if I have 1G open. I actually play Faeries in Modern, and I know how important is to flash in blockers/attackers to change your race. I just need to test more, maybe I'll switch back to Augur.


    The thing everyone likes about Auger, is that it replaces itself 86% of the time, and absorbs damage.
    A lot of what we ascribe to luck is not luck at all, it's seeing what other people do not see and pursuing that vision.
    - Howard Shultz

    CURRENTLY PLAYING

    UWR: American Control

    No RIP: Quinton Hoover - You will be missed, friend.
  • #233
    Quote from Spadrick
    The thing everyone likes about Auger, is that it replaces itself 86% of the time, and absorbs damage.


    And it digs for these cards called Advent of The Wurm and Sphinx's Revelation, but those cards aren't too important for our deck..

    <3
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #234
    Has anyone tested Loxodon Smiter against aggro? I'm currently running Heroes Reunion, but the 2 drop slot is much more clogged than the 3 drop, so I've been considering testing it; but wondering if anyone else has yet?
  • #235
    Quote from swiftyman
    Has anyone tested Loxodon Smiter against aggro? I'm currently running Heroes Reunion, but the 2 drop slot is much more clogged than the 3 drop, so I've been considering testing it; but wondering if anyone else has yet?


    No I have not, and I am contemplating it, my turn 3 really sucks against aggro with the lack of unsummon for the simic charm tech which I do love.

    I am going to 4 Verdicts 2 in main and 2 in side, with 1 of Trostani for the top deck scenarios against Aggro and for some hedging on other matchups with Wurm.

    Trostani is also amazing with Supreme Verdict as she is the best thing to come down on 5 after a Verdict to combat a Reckonor/Medic Mauler/champion after board wipe.
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #236
    So with Trostani you're comfortable going up to 11 4 drops against aggro? Unless you're boarding out Resto's or Wurms that seems extremely risky, especially when it means you need to hit GGWWU on turn 4 depending on what you have and/or need/want to cast.
  • #237
    Quote from swiftyman
    So with Trostani you're comfortable going up to 11 4 drops against aggro? Unless you're boarding out Resto's or Wurms that seems extremely risky, especially when it means you need to hit GGWWU on turn 4 depending on what you have and/or need/want to cast.


    With 16 Turn 2 plays, I'm confident in it, Especially with now having 4 Verdicts. I've come to the realization that without 4 Voices Mainboard, the aggro matchup is going to be a really bad matchup. Without perfect Augur draws into Verdicts it will get tough.

    The only other option is going to Smiters out of the sideboard. I don't think Feeling of Dread will help either cause that will leave most players to sit back on Boros Charms.

    I hope I get the Augurs into Verdict and Drop Trostani as a stabilizing card cause I usually do get to a Verdict or Two and can STILL lose. It also hedges for some other matchups.
    Last edited by VeroProDiGY: 5/25/2013 4:54:11 PM
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #238
    I was considering giving this deck a try, but I'm wondering what's the consensus on Voice of Resurgence in Bant Flash.

    I'm guessing that VoR is not really necessary, though I've seen it pop up in a lot of Bant Flash lists. Feel like it's a powerful card in more aggressive populate-based decks, but does it really earn slots in Bant Flash?
  • #239
    Quote from YWQMD
    I was considering giving this deck a try, but I'm wondering what's the consensus on Voice of Resurgence in Bant Flash.

    I'm guessing that VoR is not really necessary, though I've seen it pop up in a lot of Bant Flash lists. Feel like it's a powerful card in more aggressive populate-based decks, but does it really earn slots in Bant Flash?


    Highly deserves slots, but the deck can function without it
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #240
    I want to suggest that if your having problems beating R/x aggro, your playing the deck wrong. Most likely too much like a control deck, and not enough like a tempo deck. I played about 30 matches against G/R aggro and won only about 8 of them. I then realized I was trying to play the deck too much like Bant control. Now that I play it correctly, I very rarely lose a game, let alone a match to any R/x aggro. This also includes the list that runs 4x dryad militant. I think you need to review your game plan against aggro.

    I currently board out 2 simic charm, 2 rewind and 2 syncopate and bring in 2 verdict, 3 feeling of dread and a renounce the guilds.

    What is everyone thinking about pike? I'm main decking one, and I'm seriously considering 1 in the board as well.

    In the control matches I want to see Pike every time. Even in multiples.

    I'm also considering going back to 4 Snaps, just so I can run another moorland haunt. Or perhaps toss one in the board.

    Thoughts?
  • #241
    Quote from MarchofOblivion
    I want to suggest that if your having problems beating R/x aggro, your playing the deck wrong. Most likely too much like a control deck, and not enough like a tempo deck. I played about 30 matches against G/R aggro and won only about 8 of them. I then realized I was trying to play the deck too much like Bant control. Now that I play it correctly, I very rarely lose a game, let alone a match to any R/x aggro. This also includes the list that runs 4x dryad militant. I think you need to review your game plan against aggro.

    I agree with this. I also feel like the full playset of verdicts is a trap because it plays into the "control" not "tempo" mindset. Verdict is your safety valve, not your main game plan in that matchup.

    What is everyone thinking about pike? I'm main decking one, and I'm seriously considering 1 in the board as well.

    In the control matches I want to see Pike every time. Even in multiples.


    pike = our kessig wolf run. turns every creature into a lethal threat, it is truly nice. Not sure if 2 can fit, and it's awful vs aggro, but do agree you want at least one.

    I'm also considering going back to 4 Snaps, just so I can run another moorland haunt. Or perhaps toss one in the board.

    Thoughts?


    4 snaps is a must imo. he's great vs aggro and control, has so much synergy and is just the perfect card.
    Competitive RTR block article series - Around the Block
  • #242
    Hmm, I think your right about the 4 Snaps. I'm going to go back to 2 Auger and Plus 1 snap, see how that plays out.
  • #243
    Quote from MarchofOblivion
    I want to suggest that if your having problems beating R/x aggro, your playing the deck wrong. Most likely too much like a control deck, and not enough like a tempo deck. I played about 30 matches against G/R aggro and won only about 8 of them. I then realized I was trying to play the deck too much like Bant control. Now that I play it correctly, I very rarely lose a game, let alone a match to any R/x aggro. This also includes the list that runs 4x dryad militant. I think you need to review your game plan against aggro.

    I currently board out 2 simic charm, 2 rewind and 2 syncopate and bring in 2 verdict, 3 feeling of dread and a renounce the guilds.

    What is everyone thinking about pike? I'm main decking one, and I'm seriously considering 1 in the board as well.

    In the control matches I want to see Pike every time. Even in multiples.

    I'm also considering going back to 4 Snaps, just so I can run another moorland haunt. Or perhaps toss one in the board.

    Thoughts?


    I board out 2 Selesyna Charm 2 Rewind and bring in 2 Supreme Verdict , 1 Trostani and 1 Renounce the Guilds.

    I know how to board against it in comparison, it is still a bad matchup against Naya/Red/Green/Jund etc.
    Last edited by VeroProDiGY: 5/25/2013 9:10:37 PM
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #244
    That's where your wrong. Renounce is situational. Verdict and Trostani are both too slow with out feeling of dread or druids deleverence. R/x aggo should not be worse then 65/ 35 in our favor
  • #245
    Quote from MarchofOblivion
    That's where your wrong. Renounce is situational. Verdict and Trostani are both too slow with out feeling of dread or druids deleverence. R/x aggo should not be worse then 65/ 35 in our favor


    4 Drops are slow in a deck with 3 Augurs, 4 Azorius Charms, 3 Selesyna Charm, 2 Simic Charms and 1 Cyclonic Rift?

    That's news to me.

    You realize when you all in on Feeling of Dread into Verdicts you just lost to Boros Charm. Not to be arrogant, but to look at one aggro match up and speak for all of them is rather comical to me when you lose to plenty of the Naya Blitz decks which are just as relevant.

    And I editted from before, I board out two Selesyna Charms not Simic Charms
    Last edited by VeroProDiGY: 5/25/2013 9:10:58 PM
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #246
    Feeling of dread into verdict is not my game plan. In fact I'm probably going to go down to 2 verdicts. If you think sitting back on your bounce into a verdict is how this deck is supposed to play, your wrong. The idead is to take only a small amount of damage until turn 4. Then make an advent token, block a dude, then start beating them down. Between your remaining removal and feeling of dread, plus the life link ability on Azorious charm, you should be able to race them.

    This is not a control deck. The idea is to stick a threat, and deal with relevent spells while getting into the red zone.

    And yes, I do think verdict/trostani is too slow. They have Boros charm and guys with haste to work around verdict. Experiment one lives through verdict. And trostani is too slow.

    If you walk your verdict into a boros charm, fail on your part. Verdict works in this deck as a two for one removal spell most of the time, and is usually one of the weaker cards in the match.

    Snapcaster + unsummon and feeling of dread/ druids deleverance are your best options.

    Also, I think my 60+ matches against the various aggro decks give me enough testing to say that Trostani/verdict is too slow / not enough.

    It looks pretty on paper, but most of the time doesn't get there. (Nut draws excluded obviously)
  • #247
    Played at GameDay, got 5th place, mainly because a bye messed me up (the first place person was the only person without a match loss - it was a small turnout). I guess because I had no opponent, I couldn't really be judged for opponent standings or something. Whatever. I was playing my decklist posted on the first page, but on the SB -1 Simic Charm and +1 Renounce the Guilds because I forgot the Simic Charm - whoops. Here's the match breakdown:


    Got paired up against a buddy of mine, unfortunately. Game 1 went just as it should: Azorius Charm his threats, eventually hit a Rewind -> Advent, and ride it to victory, supplementing it with counters to make sure he didn't land a Thraggy to stabilize.

    Side: -3 Augur of Bolas, +2 Feeling of Dread, +1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice

    Game two was pretty lame. He played a Ground Seal turn two, and I was able to stop his threats for the most part. Eventually, I had no counterspell to stop a Thragtusk and thus, he gained a bunch of life. I ended up using both Sphinx Rev, hitting pretty much all land and finally an Advent, which he blocked with Thragtusk. He then played Wildwood Rebirth to get it back. Uhh...whut. He played it again (I didn't have a counterspell again, and was able to use Selesnya Charm to exile it. And then he drew into another one. I played a Supreme Verdict and Unsummon'd the token, but a Strangleroot Geist + Rancor killed me.

    Side: -4 Snapcaster Mage, +4 Voice of Resurgence

    Game three I had a great hand, going rewind -> Advent. However, I started drawing dead soonafter and a Thragtusk again stopped me in my tracks. I tried to race with a Resto Angel, running a Wurm into his Thraggy to get rid of it, but his field got clogged with a Wolfir Avenger and a Yeva, and he eventually killed me. Again, no other counterspell seen that game.


    Round 2 was my bye.

    This guy's deck was pretty underdeveloped, and I took the win easily, countering what threats he had and dropping a Wurm token and Knight and racing him.

    Side: -3 Farseek, +2 Feeling of Dread, +1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice

    Game two was a little tougher, but a well-timed Supreme Verdict paved the way for two Wurm tokens to smash through the chump blockers he laid down afterwards.


    Game one took a bit, since I had trouble finding a win con. I had plenty of counterspells and Snapcasters to keep his creatures at bay, however. Eventually I dropped a Wurm and let it beat him down.

    No sideboard.

    Game two he tried to mill me out, but hit no good targets for the Rise from the Grave he had in hand (I assumed). A Sphinx Rev into two Wurms let me seal the deal.

    Overall, the matches weren't too exciting. 2/3 of my opponents were running less-than-competitive decks, so I can't say I was able to learn too much. However, I do really like Farseek in the deck. When we have no countermagic or other answers, going turn two Farseek so we can hit a turn 3 Wurm or Rewind is pretty crippling for our foes. However, I think it's a definite side out against aggro, as it just isn't a sufficient enough play.

    I also agree with Trostani being a little slow. Feeling of Dread has consistently been an all-star, however. Maybe a third Feeling of Dread or maybe two Centaur Healers? Or Heroes' Reunion, as discussed earlier. I think Trostani has some good merits, but basically the deck just wants a Druid's Deliverance effect instead. Buying us time + possibly getting another Wurm/Knight is pretty key.

    So i think I'll take Trostani out and put in +2 Druid's Deliverance or +2 Heroes Reunion.
    I make art!

    Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.

    Currently playing:
    Standard:
    GWBReanimator
    GUWMidrange
    UBRControl

    Commander:
    White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
    Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
    Wit's End (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
  • #248
    Quote from MarchofOblivion
    Feeling of dread into verdict is not my game plan. In fact I'm probably going to go down to 2 verdicts. If you think sitting back on your bounce into a verdict is how this deck is supposed to play, your wrong. The idead is to take only a small amount of damage until turn 4. Then make an advent token, block a dude, then start beating them down. Between your remaining removal and feeling of dread, plus the life link ability on Azorious charm, you should be able to race them.

    This is not a control deck. The idea is to stick a threat, and deal with relevent spells while getting into the red zone.

    And yes, I do think verdict/trostani is too slow. They have Boros charm and guys with haste to work around verdict. Experiment one lives through verdict. And trostani is too slow.

    If you walk your verdict into a boros charm, fail on your part. Verdict works in this deck as a two for one removal spell most of the time, and is usually one of the weaker cards in the match.

    Snapcaster + unsummon and feeling of dread/ druids deleverance are your best options.

    Also, I think my 60+ matches against the various aggro decks give me enough testing to say that Trostani/verdict is too slow / not enough.

    It looks pretty on paper, but most of the time doesn't get there. (Nut draws excluded obviously)


    I'll try running 2 Feeling of Dread but I feel it will be the same with Heroes' Reunion, Have in first 9/10 cards or lose. Maybe I have been having really bad luck with the two decks I have been playing the past 2/3 weeks ,where I have the choice of Feeling of Dread/Heroes etc etc but I really hate relying on cards I need in my first 10. Even with Lifelink/Wurm/Angels I don't see this being stable against decks that push out 18 damage in 3 turns but I guess we will see.
    Last edited by VeroProDiGY: 5/25/2013 10:38:48 PM
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #249
    Quote from esterk
    Played at GameDay, got 5th place, mainly because a bye messed me up (the first place person was the only person without a match loss - it was a small turnout). I guess because I had no opponent, I couldn't really be judged for opponent standings or something. Whatever. I was playing my decklist posted on the first page, but on the SB -1 Simic Charm and +1 Renounce the Guilds because I forgot the Simic Charm - whoops. Here's the match breakdown:


    Got paired up against a buddy of mine, unfortunately. Game 1 went just as it should: Azorius Charm his threats, eventually hit a Rewind -> Advent, and ride it to victory, supplementing it with counters to make sure he didn't land a Thraggy to stabilize.

    Side: -3 Augur of Bolas, +2 Feeling of Dread, +1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice

    Game two was pretty lame. He played a Ground Seal turn two, and I was able to stop his threats for the most part. Eventually, I had no counterspell to stop a Thragtusk and thus, he gained a bunch of life. I ended up using both Sphinx Rev, hitting pretty much all land and finally an Advent, which he blocked with Thragtusk. He then played Wildwood Rebirth to get it back. Uhh...whut. He played it again (I didn't have a counterspell again, and was able to use Selesnya Charm to exile it. And then he drew into another one. I played a Supreme Verdict and Unsummon'd the token, but a Strangleroot Geist + Rancor killed me.

    Side: -4 Snapcaster Mage, +4 Voice of Resurgence

    Game three I had a great hand, going rewind -> Advent. However, I started drawing dead soonafter and a Thragtusk again stopped me in my tracks. I tried to race with a Resto Angel, running a Wurm into his Thraggy to get rid of it, but his field got clogged with a Wolfir Avenger and a Yeva, and he eventually killed me. Again, no other counterspell seen that game.


    Round 2 was my bye.

    This guy's deck was pretty underdeveloped, and I took the win easily, countering what threats he had and dropping a Wurm token and Knight and racing him.

    Side: -3 Farseek, +2 Feeling of Dread, +1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice

    Game two was a little tougher, but a well-timed Supreme Verdict paved the way for two Wurm tokens to smash through the chump blockers he laid down afterwards.


    Game one took a bit, since I had trouble finding a win con. I had plenty of counterspells and Snapcasters to keep his creatures at bay, however. Eventually I dropped a Wurm and let it beat him down.

    No sideboard.

    Game two he tried to mill me out, but hit no good targets for the Rise from the Grave he had in hand (I assumed). A Sphinx Rev into two Wurms let me seal the deal.

    Overall, the matches weren't too exciting. 2/3 of my opponents were running less-than-competitive decks, so I can't say I was able to learn too much. However, I do really like Farseek in the deck. When we have no countermagic or other answers, going turn two Farseek so we can hit a turn 3 Wurm or Rewind is pretty crippling for our foes. However, I think it's a definite side out against aggro, as it just isn't a sufficient enough play.

    I also agree with Trostani being a little slow. Feeling of Dread has consistently been an all-star, however. Maybe a third Feeling of Dread or maybe two Centaur Healers? Or Heroes' Reunion, as discussed earlier. I think Trostani has some good merits, but basically the deck just wants a Druid's Deliverance effect instead. Buying us time + possibly getting another Wurm/Knight is pretty key.

    So i think I'll take Trostani out and put in +2 Druid's Deliverance or +2 Heroes Reunion.


    Better off going Triple on Feeling of Dread for Consistency then a 2/2 split.
    New York, United States Current test decks during BotG Release month

    Mono Blue/U/W Devotion
    U/W/X Control
    U/W Elehumentals aka UW Flying Matters
  • #250
    Quote from Spadrick
    The thing everyone likes about Auger, is that it replaces itself 86% of the time, and absorbs damage.

    Pretty obvious, that's why he's good in this deck, a high-quality cantrip with a body attached is always welcome. Anyway I hate him 14% of the time Tongue especially when he reveals a Snapcaster Mage with my graveyard full of answers... the 'absorbs damage' part is way better for Wolfir Avenger, even with different timing (and I think this is a plus for Wolfir, given the number of cc2 spells in the deck), and when you have a Geist of Saint Traft attacking you, Wolfir makes a BIG difference. Still testing thought, and hoping to switch back to Augur Wink
  • #251
    Played this deck at game day, went 2-2. I really didn't do all that well, partially due to bad draws, but also due to being unable to deal with certain cards. Here's the list I played:

    darksteel88's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    2 Augur of Bolas
    2 Restoration Angel
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Forest
    1 Island
    4 Breeding Pool
    1 Ghost Quarter
    4 Glacial Fortress
    4 Hallowed Fountain
    3 Sunpetal Grove
    3 Temple Garden
    4 Advent of the Wurm
    4 Azorius Charm
    2 Rewind
    1 Syncopate
    2 Think Twice
    3 Thought Scour
    3 Unsummon
    2 Supreme Verdict
    1 Dissipate
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    3 Sphinx's Revelation
    2 Selesnya Charm

    1 Clone
    4 Voice of Resurgence
    1 Supreme Verdict
    2 Renounce the Guilds
    2 Dispel
    1 Psychic Spiral
    2 Purify the Grave
    2 Feeling of Dread



    I kept Psychic Spiral in mostly cause I knew there would be people there that like playing Drownyard and I know how good it is against them.

    Round 1: 0-2

    I'm playing against a friend of mine who brewed some Jund splash white. It's got typical Jund cards plus Sire of Insanity, Assemble the Legion, Garruk, Primal Hunter, one Thragtusk, etc.

    Game one he resolves Assemble the Legion and I lose a few turns later. I couldn't win in time and it just wasn't a race I could make. I wasn't exactly winning beforehand, he kept Putrefying tokens and putting pressure so I just wasn't getting there yet. Game two, he resolved Garruk and I couldn't make tokens or get Restoration Angels in play to kill it. He had a lot of 3/3 tokens to stall my Wurms and his own Restoration Angel to block mine and I just never got there.

    Round 2: 0-2

    Playing against a friend playing a homebrew Jund Scavenge deck. It was using Varolz to play cards like Vexing Devil, Hellhole Flailer, Dreg Mangler, etc. The deck works on Scavenging creatures with Varolz for value while providing pressure on me with the creatures. For example, I need to take 4 from Vexing Devil and then they scavenge for value.

    Game one I flooded like no tomorrow. I drew 15 lands in 22ish cards. Augur of Bolas also hit three lands so it missed, and I scooped with three lands in hand. I can't really beat them when I draw nothing, not the deck's fault here. Game two ended up much the same. It overall went better but I can't Supreme Verdict through Varolz or Dreg Mangler so it was problematic. I drew a few too many lands again and the game wasn't ever in my favour.

    Round 3: 2-0

    At this point I'm doing bad and I'm facing someone that's bad. There are casuals at Game Day and it was just overall not fun to crush him. My round note literally says "played against a 60 card draft deck". He cast Farseek and got a Plains when he wanted a Forest (aka no Shocks), Seller of Songbirds, Eyes in the Sky, just not good cards. In fact, it was so bad that I beat him without taking any damage.

    Round 4: 2-1

    This is the only good round of the day. I'm playing against a guy from the other store (my LGS has two locations), he's probably a bit better than me. He was playing UWR control.

    Game one we're going toe to toe and I just sort of pull ahead a bit from Snapcasters and Rewinds. I Azorius Charm'd an Aetherling that blocked a Wurm, so he exiled his Aetherling and took 5 from the trample. Eventually we got to a state where he tapped out, except for one mana, for a big Sphinx's Revelation, going to 9 life, and I had a Wurm and two Snapcasters in play with 6 mana available. I cast Restoration Angel, blink Snapcaster, flashback Selesnya Charm for a 2/2. I have 9 power aside from the Wurm so he couldn't stop the attack.

    Game two, he pulled ahead from early Geist, which I did kill, but he proceeded to play Assemble the Legion and I couldn't beat it. It got to 5 and yeah, it's just troubling for me.

    Game three, he missed his third or fourth land drop and I pulled far ahead at that point. Rewinds and Snaps again, that is actually such good value. Rewind to Snap to Wurm is the best thing this deck can do in my opinion.


    Overall I went 2-2 and I didn't think the deck was so good for the meta. It has a lot of aggro here and it has trouble beating it in my opinion. I was running a decent amount of aggro stuff but I really just think this deck isn't as good right now. I also found out early on that it simply can't beat non-creature permanents like Planeswalkers or Assemble the Legion. I suppose if I had played Ray of Revelation I could beat Assemble the Legion but most of the discussion about why to play Ray was to beat the Geist Aura deck, not Assemble the Legion. Going forward, I'd recommend general purpose cards, like Detention Sphere or Cyclonic Rift. I'm a really huge fan of Cyclonic Rift and it's a really good answer to Assemble the Legion.

    Currently Playing:
    Modern
    UW Tron UWR Control Affinity Melira Pod
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