Has anyone tested Loxodon Smiter against aggro? I'm currently running Heroes Reunion, but the 2 drop slot is much more clogged than the 3 drop, so I've been considering testing it; but wondering if anyone else has yet?
Has anyone tested Loxodon Smiter against aggro? I'm currently running Heroes Reunion, but the 2 drop slot is much more clogged than the 3 drop, so I've been considering testing it; but wondering if anyone else has yet?
No I have not, and I am contemplating it, my turn 3 really sucks against aggro with the lack of unsummon for the simic charm tech which I do love.
I am going to 4 Verdicts 2 in main and 2 in side, with 1 of Trostani for the top deck scenarios against Aggro and for some hedging on other matchups with Wurm.
Trostani is also amazing with Supreme Verdict as she is the best thing to come down on 5 after a Verdict to combat a Reckonor/Medic Mauler/champion after board wipe.
So with Trostani you're comfortable going up to 11 4 drops against aggro? Unless you're boarding out Resto's or Wurms that seems extremely risky, especially when it means you need to hit GGWWU on turn 4 depending on what you have and/or need/want to cast.
So with Trostani you're comfortable going up to 11 4 drops against aggro? Unless you're boarding out Resto's or Wurms that seems extremely risky, especially when it means you need to hit GGWWU on turn 4 depending on what you have and/or need/want to cast.
With 16 Turn 2 plays, I'm confident in it, Especially with now having 4 Verdicts. I've come to the realization that without 4 Voices Mainboard, the aggro matchup is going to be a really bad matchup. Without perfect Augur draws into Verdicts it will get tough.
The only other option is going to Smiters out of the sideboard. I don't think Feeling of Dread will help either cause that will leave most players to sit back on Boros Charms.
I hope I get the Augurs into Verdict and Drop Trostani as a stabilizing card cause I usually do get to a Verdict or Two and can STILL lose. It also hedges for some other matchups.
I was considering giving this deck a try, but I'm wondering what's the consensus on Voice of Resurgence in Bant Flash.
I'm guessing that VoR is not really necessary, though I've seen it pop up in a lot of Bant Flash lists. Feel like it's a powerful card in more aggressive populate-based decks, but does it really earn slots in Bant Flash?
I was considering giving this deck a try, but I'm wondering what's the consensus on Voice of Resurgence in Bant Flash.
I'm guessing that VoR is not really necessary, though I've seen it pop up in a lot of Bant Flash lists. Feel like it's a powerful card in more aggressive populate-based decks, but does it really earn slots in Bant Flash?
Highly deserves slots, but the deck can function without it
I want to suggest that if your having problems beating R/x aggro, your playing the deck wrong. Most likely too much like a control deck, and not enough like a tempo deck. I played about 30 matches against G/R aggro and won only about 8 of them. I then realized I was trying to play the deck too much like Bant control. Now that I play it correctly, I very rarely lose a game, let alone a match to any R/x aggro. This also includes the list that runs 4x dryad militant. I think you need to review your game plan against aggro.
I currently board out 2 simic charm, 2 rewind and 2 syncopate and bring in 2 verdict, 3 feeling of dread and a renounce the guilds.
What is everyone thinking about pike? I'm main decking one, and I'm seriously considering 1 in the board as well.
In the control matches I want to see Pike every time. Even in multiples.
I'm also considering going back to 4 Snaps, just so I can run another moorland haunt. Or perhaps toss one in the board.
I want to suggest that if your having problems beating R/x aggro, your playing the deck wrong. Most likely too much like a control deck, and not enough like a tempo deck. I played about 30 matches against G/R aggro and won only about 8 of them. I then realized I was trying to play the deck too much like Bant control. Now that I play it correctly, I very rarely lose a game, let alone a match to any R/x aggro. This also includes the list that runs 4x dryad militant. I think you need to review your game plan against aggro.
I agree with this. I also feel like the full playset of verdicts is a trap because it plays into the "control" not "tempo" mindset. Verdict is your safety valve, not your main game plan in that matchup.
What is everyone thinking about pike? I'm main decking one, and I'm seriously considering 1 in the board as well.
In the control matches I want to see Pike every time. Even in multiples.
pike = our kessig wolf run. turns every creature into a lethal threat, it is truly nice. Not sure if 2 can fit, and it's awful vs aggro, but do agree you want at least one.
I'm also considering going back to 4 Snaps, just so I can run another moorland haunt. Or perhaps toss one in the board.
Thoughts?
4 snaps is a must imo. he's great vs aggro and control, has so much synergy and is just the perfect card.
I want to suggest that if your having problems beating R/x aggro, your playing the deck wrong. Most likely too much like a control deck, and not enough like a tempo deck. I played about 30 matches against G/R aggro and won only about 8 of them. I then realized I was trying to play the deck too much like Bant control. Now that I play it correctly, I very rarely lose a game, let alone a match to any R/x aggro. This also includes the list that runs 4x dryad militant. I think you need to review your game plan against aggro.
I currently board out 2 simic charm, 2 rewind and 2 syncopate and bring in 2 verdict, 3 feeling of dread and a renounce the guilds.
What is everyone thinking about pike? I'm main decking one, and I'm seriously considering 1 in the board as well.
In the control matches I want to see Pike every time. Even in multiples.
I'm also considering going back to 4 Snaps, just so I can run another moorland haunt. Or perhaps toss one in the board.
Thoughts?
I board out 2 Selesyna Charm 2 Rewind and bring in 2 Supreme Verdict , 1 Trostani and 1 Renounce the Guilds.
I know how to board against it in comparison, it is still a bad matchup against Naya/Red/Green/Jund etc.
That's where your wrong. Renounce is situational. Verdict and Trostani are both too slow with out feeling of dread or druids deleverence. R/x aggo should not be worse then 65/ 35 in our favor
That's where your wrong. Renounce is situational. Verdict and Trostani are both too slow with out feeling of dread or druids deleverence. R/x aggo should not be worse then 65/ 35 in our favor
4 Drops are slow in a deck with 3 Augurs, 4 Azorius Charms, 3 Selesyna Charm, 2 Simic Charms and 1 Cyclonic Rift?
That's news to me.
You realize when you all in on Feeling of Dread into Verdicts you just lost to Boros Charm. Not to be arrogant, but to look at one aggro match up and speak for all of them is rather comical to me when you lose to plenty of the Naya Blitz decks which are just as relevant.
And I editted from before, I board out two Selesyna Charms not Simic Charms
Feeling of dread into verdict is not my game plan. In fact I'm probably going to go down to 2 verdicts. If you think sitting back on your bounce into a verdict is how this deck is supposed to play, your wrong. The idead is to take only a small amount of damage until turn 4. Then make an advent token, block a dude, then start beating them down. Between your remaining removal and feeling of dread, plus the life link ability on Azorious charm, you should be able to race them.
This is not a control deck. The idea is to stick a threat, and deal with relevent spells while getting into the red zone.
And yes, I do think verdict/trostani is too slow. They have Boros charm and guys with haste to work around verdict. Experiment one lives through verdict. And trostani is too slow.
If you walk your verdict into a boros charm, fail on your part. Verdict works in this deck as a two for one removal spell most of the time, and is usually one of the weaker cards in the match.
Snapcaster + unsummon and feeling of dread/ druids deleverance are your best options.
Also, I think my 60+ matches against the various aggro decks give me enough testing to say that Trostani/verdict is too slow / not enough.
It looks pretty on paper, but most of the time doesn't get there. (Nut draws excluded obviously)
Played at GameDay, got 5th place, mainly because a bye messed me up (the first place person was the only person without a match loss - it was a small turnout). I guess because I had no opponent, I couldn't really be judged for opponent standings or something. Whatever. I was playing my decklist posted on the first page, but on the SB -1 Simic Charm and +1 Renounce the Guilds because I forgot the Simic Charm - whoops. Here's the match breakdown:
Got paired up against a buddy of mine, unfortunately. Game 1 went just as it should: Azorius Charm his threats, eventually hit a Rewind -> Advent, and ride it to victory, supplementing it with counters to make sure he didn't land a Thraggy to stabilize.
Side: -3 Augur of Bolas, +2 Feeling of Dread, +1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Game two was pretty lame. He played a Ground Seal turn two, and I was able to stop his threats for the most part. Eventually, I had no counterspell to stop a Thragtusk and thus, he gained a bunch of life. I ended up using both Sphinx Rev, hitting pretty much all land and finally an Advent, which he blocked with Thragtusk. He then played Wildwood Rebirth to get it back. Uhh...whut. He played it again (I didn't have a counterspell again, and was able to use Selesnya Charm to exile it. And then he drew into another one. I played a Supreme Verdict and Unsummon'd the token, but a Strangleroot Geist + Rancor killed me.
Side: -4 Snapcaster Mage, +4 Voice of Resurgence
Game three I had a great hand, going rewind -> Advent. However, I started drawing dead soonafter and a Thragtusk again stopped me in my tracks. I tried to race with a Resto Angel, running a Wurm into his Thraggy to get rid of it, but his field got clogged with a Wolfir Avenger and a Yeva, and he eventually killed me. Again, no other counterspell seen that game.
Round 2 was my bye.
This guy's deck was pretty underdeveloped, and I took the win easily, countering what threats he had and dropping a Wurm token and Knight and racing him.
Game two was a little tougher, but a well-timed Supreme Verdict paved the way for two Wurm tokens to smash through the chump blockers he laid down afterwards.
Game one took a bit, since I had trouble finding a win con. I had plenty of counterspells and Snapcasters to keep his creatures at bay, however. Eventually I dropped a Wurm and let it beat him down.
No sideboard.
Game two he tried to mill me out, but hit no good targets for the Rise from the Grave he had in hand (I assumed). A Sphinx Rev into two Wurms let me seal the deal.
Overall, the matches weren't too exciting. 2/3 of my opponents were running less-than-competitive decks, so I can't say I was able to learn too much. However, I do really like Farseek in the deck. When we have no countermagic or other answers, going turn two Farseek so we can hit a turn 3 Wurm or Rewind is pretty crippling for our foes. However, I think it's a definite side out against aggro, as it just isn't a sufficient enough play.
I also agree with Trostani being a little slow. Feeling of Dread has consistently been an all-star, however. Maybe a third Feeling of Dread or maybe two Centaur Healers? Or Heroes' Reunion, as discussed earlier. I think Trostani has some good merits, but basically the deck just wants a Druid's Deliverance effect instead. Buying us time + possibly getting another Wurm/Knight is pretty key.
So i think I'll take Trostani out and put in +2 Druid's Deliverance or +2 Heroes Reunion.
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Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Feeling of dread into verdict is not my game plan. In fact I'm probably going to go down to 2 verdicts. If you think sitting back on your bounce into a verdict is how this deck is supposed to play, your wrong. The idead is to take only a small amount of damage until turn 4. Then make an advent token, block a dude, then start beating them down. Between your remaining removal and feeling of dread, plus the life link ability on Azorious charm, you should be able to race them.
This is not a control deck. The idea is to stick a threat, and deal with relevent spells while getting into the red zone.
And yes, I do think verdict/trostani is too slow. They have Boros charm and guys with haste to work around verdict. Experiment one lives through verdict. And trostani is too slow.
If you walk your verdict into a boros charm, fail on your part. Verdict works in this deck as a two for one removal spell most of the time, and is usually one of the weaker cards in the match.
Snapcaster + unsummon and feeling of dread/ druids deleverance are your best options.
Also, I think my 60+ matches against the various aggro decks give me enough testing to say that Trostani/verdict is too slow / not enough.
It looks pretty on paper, but most of the time doesn't get there. (Nut draws excluded obviously)
I'll try running 2 Feeling of Dread but I feel it will be the same with Heroes' Reunion, Have in first 9/10 cards or lose. Maybe I have been having really bad luck with the two decks I have been playing the past 2/3 weeks ,where I have the choice of Feeling of Dread/Heroes etc etc but I really hate relying on cards I need in my first 10. Even with Lifelink/Wurm/Angels I don't see this being stable against decks that push out 18 damage in 3 turns but I guess we will see.
Played at GameDay, got 5th place, mainly because a bye messed me up (the first place person was the only person without a match loss - it was a small turnout). I guess because I had no opponent, I couldn't really be judged for opponent standings or something. Whatever. I was playing my decklist posted on the first page, but on the SB -1 Simic Charm and +1 Renounce the Guilds because I forgot the Simic Charm - whoops. Here's the match breakdown:
Got paired up against a buddy of mine, unfortunately. Game 1 went just as it should: Azorius Charm his threats, eventually hit a Rewind -> Advent, and ride it to victory, supplementing it with counters to make sure he didn't land a Thraggy to stabilize.
Side: -3 Augur of Bolas, +2 Feeling of Dread, +1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Game two was pretty lame. He played a Ground Seal turn two, and I was able to stop his threats for the most part. Eventually, I had no counterspell to stop a Thragtusk and thus, he gained a bunch of life. I ended up using both Sphinx Rev, hitting pretty much all land and finally an Advent, which he blocked with Thragtusk. He then played Wildwood Rebirth to get it back. Uhh...whut. He played it again (I didn't have a counterspell again, and was able to use Selesnya Charm to exile it. And then he drew into another one. I played a Supreme Verdict and Unsummon'd the token, but a Strangleroot Geist + Rancor killed me.
Side: -4 Snapcaster Mage, +4 Voice of Resurgence
Game three I had a great hand, going rewind -> Advent. However, I started drawing dead soonafter and a Thragtusk again stopped me in my tracks. I tried to race with a Resto Angel, running a Wurm into his Thraggy to get rid of it, but his field got clogged with a Wolfir Avenger and a Yeva, and he eventually killed me. Again, no other counterspell seen that game.
Round 2 was my bye.
This guy's deck was pretty underdeveloped, and I took the win easily, countering what threats he had and dropping a Wurm token and Knight and racing him.
Game two was a little tougher, but a well-timed Supreme Verdict paved the way for two Wurm tokens to smash through the chump blockers he laid down afterwards.
Game one took a bit, since I had trouble finding a win con. I had plenty of counterspells and Snapcasters to keep his creatures at bay, however. Eventually I dropped a Wurm and let it beat him down.
No sideboard.
Game two he tried to mill me out, but hit no good targets for the Rise from the Grave he had in hand (I assumed). A Sphinx Rev into two Wurms let me seal the deal.
Overall, the matches weren't too exciting. 2/3 of my opponents were running less-than-competitive decks, so I can't say I was able to learn too much. However, I do really like Farseek in the deck. When we have no countermagic or other answers, going turn two Farseek so we can hit a turn 3 Wurm or Rewind is pretty crippling for our foes. However, I think it's a definite side out against aggro, as it just isn't a sufficient enough play.
I also agree with Trostani being a little slow. Feeling of Dread has consistently been an all-star, however. Maybe a third Feeling of Dread or maybe two Centaur Healers? Or Heroes' Reunion, as discussed earlier. I think Trostani has some good merits, but basically the deck just wants a Druid's Deliverance effect instead. Buying us time + possibly getting another Wurm/Knight is pretty key.
So i think I'll take Trostani out and put in +2 Druid's Deliverance or +2 Heroes Reunion.
Better off going Triple on Feeling of Dread for Consistency then a 2/2 split.
The thing everyone likes about Auger, is that it replaces itself 86% of the time, and absorbs damage.
Pretty obvious, that's why he's good in this deck, a high-quality cantrip with a body attached is always welcome. Anyway I hate him 14% of the time especially when he reveals a Snapcaster Mage with my graveyard full of answers... the 'absorbs damage' part is way better for Wolfir Avenger, even with different timing (and I think this is a plus for Wolfir, given the number of cc2 spells in the deck), and when you have a Geist of Saint Traft attacking you, Wolfir makes a BIG difference. Still testing thought, and hoping to switch back to Augur
Played this deck at game day, went 2-2. I really didn't do all that well, partially due to bad draws, but also due to being unable to deal with certain cards. Here's the list I played:
I kept Psychic Spiral in mostly cause I knew there would be people there that like playing Drownyard and I know how good it is against them.
Round 1: 0-2
I'm playing against a friend of mine who brewed some Jund splash white. It's got typical Jund cards plus Sire of Insanity, Assemble the Legion, Garruk, Primal Hunter, one Thragtusk, etc.
Game one he resolves Assemble the Legion and I lose a few turns later. I couldn't win in time and it just wasn't a race I could make. I wasn't exactly winning beforehand, he kept Putrefying tokens and putting pressure so I just wasn't getting there yet. Game two, he resolved Garruk and I couldn't make tokens or get Restoration Angels in play to kill it. He had a lot of 3/3 tokens to stall my Wurms and his own Restoration Angel to block mine and I just never got there.
Round 2: 0-2
Playing against a friend playing a homebrew Jund Scavenge deck. It was using Varolz to play cards like Vexing Devil, Hellhole Flailer, Dreg Mangler, etc. The deck works on Scavenging creatures with Varolz for value while providing pressure on me with the creatures. For example, I need to take 4 from Vexing Devil and then they scavenge for value.
Game one I flooded like no tomorrow. I drew 15 lands in 22ish cards. Augur of Bolas also hit three lands so it missed, and I scooped with three lands in hand. I can't really beat them when I draw nothing, not the deck's fault here. Game two ended up much the same. It overall went better but I can't Supreme Verdict through Varolz or Dreg Mangler so it was problematic. I drew a few too many lands again and the game wasn't ever in my favour.
Round 3: 2-0
At this point I'm doing bad and I'm facing someone that's bad. There are casuals at Game Day and it was just overall not fun to crush him. My round note literally says "played against a 60 card draft deck". He cast Farseek and got a Plains when he wanted a Forest (aka no Shocks), Seller of Songbirds, Eyes in the Sky, just not good cards. In fact, it was so bad that I beat him without taking any damage.
Round 4: 2-1
This is the only good round of the day. I'm playing against a guy from the other store (my LGS has two locations), he's probably a bit better than me. He was playing UWR control.
Game one we're going toe to toe and I just sort of pull ahead a bit from Snapcasters and Rewinds. I Azorius Charm'd an Aetherling that blocked a Wurm, so he exiled his Aetherling and took 5 from the trample. Eventually we got to a state where he tapped out, except for one mana, for a big Sphinx's Revelation, going to 9 life, and I had a Wurm and two Snapcasters in play with 6 mana available. I cast Restoration Angel, blink Snapcaster, flashback Selesnya Charm for a 2/2. I have 9 power aside from the Wurm so he couldn't stop the attack.
Game two, he pulled ahead from early Geist, which I did kill, but he proceeded to play Assemble the Legion and I couldn't beat it. It got to 5 and yeah, it's just troubling for me.
Game three, he missed his third or fourth land drop and I pulled far ahead at that point. Rewinds and Snaps again, that is actually such good value. Rewind to Snap to Wurm is the best thing this deck can do in my opinion.
Overall I went 2-2 and I didn't think the deck was so good for the meta. It has a lot of aggro here and it has trouble beating it in my opinion. I was running a decent amount of aggro stuff but I really just think this deck isn't as good right now. I also found out early on that it simply can't beat non-creature permanents like Planeswalkers or Assemble the Legion. I suppose if I had played Ray of Revelation I could beat Assemble the Legion but most of the discussion about why to play Ray was to beat the Geist Aura deck, not Assemble the Legion. Going forward, I'd recommend general purpose cards, like Detention Sphere or Cyclonic Rift. I'm a really huge fan of Cyclonic Rift and it's a really good answer to Assemble the Legion.
I run deathrite shaman as my gy hate. The creatures are all that we are worried about against reanimator so it doesnt really matter that we don't have black mana.
Has anyone tried Garruk Relentless out of the SB? I think I'm going to test one this week (assuming I get to play) as a way to diversify against Jund and possibly Control decks.
This deck laughs at and tears apart most midrange decks.
Round 1: America with Black/Grixis with White Midrange
First game little bit of draw go to being, pressured with selesyna tokens to force some removal cause I was stuck on 4 land, he got to 7 mana and Tried to Rakdos Return me for 6, Rewinded and Advent of the Wurm, protected with Simic Charm/Flashback, easy game 1. He Resolved Assemble the Legion as well but after a few tokens, an EOT Overloaded Cyclonic Rift was gg to Tokens, Assemble and his Olivia.
Game 2, he kind of got land screwed, (stuck on 4) I wasn't much better either, pressured with early Selesyna Charms, held and rolled with counterspells, wurms and simic charm protect. Won on the back of a sphinx for 5 after he Mizzium Mortar overloaded an Angel and a Wurm.
Round 2: Red/Black Aggro
Won both matchups pretty easy, not so much on any of my sideboard either, Selesyna Charm,Rewind/Wurm / Augur and Cyclonic Rift all lead to blow outs even against Lilliana and Hellriders.
Sideboarded in Feeling of Dread and Supreme Verdict. Used Supreme Once, and thought scourred a Feeling of Dread but only to use it offensively.
Round 3 Green White Tokens.
Not much to say here either, with all the bounce effects I had it was pretty simple as to azoirus charm the call of conclaves etc and hold up Rewind for His wurms and Trostani and just flash in my own and protect with Simic Charm. Reallly bad matchup for him.
He dropped Garruk and some Intangible Virtues but just one more reason a 1 Cyclonic Rift is an amazing card. Overloaded all tokens and Virtues/Garruk and swung in for game with a pike is how both of the games went.
Round 4 - Esper Control
Long Grindy match, won on having 1 more counterspell than him during an Aetherling CS War. Got ahead by flashing back a rewind for the final counter which allowed me to play the Wurm and swing in for like 28 with Pike.
Game 2 was a bit of the same, he sided in some Pike and Token hate? I guess. I came with 2 Dispels , 1 Negate , Aetherling and a 1 of Renounce the Guilds for his Sorin and Obzedat. He resolved Obzedat, I renounce and Wurmed, he then resolved Sorin and 2nd Obzedat. Some intense racing went on, but with an EOT Overloaded Cyclonic Rift and some CS Wars, I won the battle. He then trying Azorius Charming or Warped Psyqiuing my 22/1 Snapcaster, but Simic Charm Hexproof chose to be too strong.
Overall Gameday Experience
Cyclonic Rift is definitely a card and amazing for game 1s, if you play Unsummon, might as well play this because it helps against the Planeswalkers/Enchantment decks.
Simic Charm - Another Allstar of the day, Resolving a Wurm or any other big threat if it is Runechanter's Piked, and getting to untap, is almost GG with 1 of these charms and then maybe a Snapcaster to go on top of it. For decks that play one for one removal, most of which are sorcery speed ie Dreadbore/Mizzium Mortars etc it is great to hexproof the first and watch them have to ship the turn and normally not have much removal after that.
Aetherling Hit or miss on Aetherling but could definitely be a card vs Control Matchups. I have a 1/1 Split with 1 Aetherling and 1 Curse of Echoes
Plenty of more tournaments to go, will report in little by little.
Thanks for the report - did you play Aetherling on the mainboard or the sideboard?
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Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
And it digs for these cards called Advent of The Wurm and Sphinx's Revelation, but those cards aren't too important for our deck..
<3
No I have not, and I am contemplating it, my turn 3 really sucks against aggro with the lack of unsummon for the simic charm tech which I do love.
I am going to 4 Verdicts 2 in main and 2 in side, with 1 of Trostani for the top deck scenarios against Aggro and for some hedging on other matchups with Wurm.
Trostani is also amazing with Supreme Verdict as she is the best thing to come down on 5 after a Verdict to combat a Reckonor/Medic Mauler/champion after board wipe.
With 16 Turn 2 plays, I'm confident in it, Especially with now having 4 Verdicts. I've come to the realization that without 4 Voices Mainboard, the aggro matchup is going to be a really bad matchup. Without perfect Augur draws into Verdicts it will get tough.
The only other option is going to Smiters out of the sideboard. I don't think Feeling of Dread will help either cause that will leave most players to sit back on Boros Charms.
I hope I get the Augurs into Verdict and Drop Trostani as a stabilizing card cause I usually do get to a Verdict or Two and can STILL lose. It also hedges for some other matchups.
I'm guessing that VoR is not really necessary, though I've seen it pop up in a lot of Bant Flash lists. Feel like it's a powerful card in more aggressive populate-based decks, but does it really earn slots in Bant Flash?
Highly deserves slots, but the deck can function without it
I currently board out 2 simic charm, 2 rewind and 2 syncopate and bring in 2 verdict, 3 feeling of dread and a renounce the guilds.
What is everyone thinking about pike? I'm main decking one, and I'm seriously considering 1 in the board as well.
In the control matches I want to see Pike every time. Even in multiples.
I'm also considering going back to 4 Snaps, just so I can run another moorland haunt. Or perhaps toss one in the board.
Thoughts?
I agree with this. I also feel like the full playset of verdicts is a trap because it plays into the "control" not "tempo" mindset. Verdict is your safety valve, not your main game plan in that matchup.
pike = our kessig wolf run. turns every creature into a lethal threat, it is truly nice. Not sure if 2 can fit, and it's awful vs aggro, but do agree you want at least one.
4 snaps is a must imo. he's great vs aggro and control, has so much synergy and is just the perfect card.
I board out 2 Selesyna Charm 2 Rewind and bring in 2 Supreme Verdict , 1 Trostani and 1 Renounce the Guilds.
I know how to board against it in comparison, it is still a bad matchup against Naya/Red/Green/Jund etc.
4 Drops are slow in a deck with 3 Augurs, 4 Azorius Charms, 3 Selesyna Charm, 2 Simic Charms and 1 Cyclonic Rift?
That's news to me.
You realize when you all in on Feeling of Dread into Verdicts you just lost to Boros Charm. Not to be arrogant, but to look at one aggro match up and speak for all of them is rather comical to me when you lose to plenty of the Naya Blitz decks which are just as relevant.
And I editted from before, I board out two Selesyna Charms not Simic Charms
This is not a control deck. The idea is to stick a threat, and deal with relevent spells while getting into the red zone.
And yes, I do think verdict/trostani is too slow. They have Boros charm and guys with haste to work around verdict. Experiment one lives through verdict. And trostani is too slow.
If you walk your verdict into a boros charm, fail on your part. Verdict works in this deck as a two for one removal spell most of the time, and is usually one of the weaker cards in the match.
Snapcaster + unsummon and feeling of dread/ druids deleverance are your best options.
Also, I think my 60+ matches against the various aggro decks give me enough testing to say that Trostani/verdict is too slow / not enough.
It looks pretty on paper, but most of the time doesn't get there. (Nut draws excluded obviously)
Got paired up against a buddy of mine, unfortunately. Game 1 went just as it should: Azorius Charm his threats, eventually hit a Rewind -> Advent, and ride it to victory, supplementing it with counters to make sure he didn't land a Thraggy to stabilize.
Side: -3 Augur of Bolas, +2 Feeling of Dread, +1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Game two was pretty lame. He played a Ground Seal turn two, and I was able to stop his threats for the most part. Eventually, I had no counterspell to stop a Thragtusk and thus, he gained a bunch of life. I ended up using both Sphinx Rev, hitting pretty much all land and finally an Advent, which he blocked with Thragtusk. He then played Wildwood Rebirth to get it back. Uhh...whut. He played it again (I didn't have a counterspell again, and was able to use Selesnya Charm to exile it. And then he drew into another one. I played a Supreme Verdict and Unsummon'd the token, but a Strangleroot Geist + Rancor killed me.
Side: -4 Snapcaster Mage, +4 Voice of Resurgence
Game three I had a great hand, going rewind -> Advent. However, I started drawing dead soonafter and a Thragtusk again stopped me in my tracks. I tried to race with a Resto Angel, running a Wurm into his Thraggy to get rid of it, but his field got clogged with a Wolfir Avenger and a Yeva, and he eventually killed me. Again, no other counterspell seen that game.
Round 2 was my bye.
This guy's deck was pretty underdeveloped, and I took the win easily, countering what threats he had and dropping a Wurm token and Knight and racing him.
Side: -3 Farseek, +2 Feeling of Dread, +1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Game two was a little tougher, but a well-timed Supreme Verdict paved the way for two Wurm tokens to smash through the chump blockers he laid down afterwards.
Game one took a bit, since I had trouble finding a win con. I had plenty of counterspells and Snapcasters to keep his creatures at bay, however. Eventually I dropped a Wurm and let it beat him down.
No sideboard.
Game two he tried to mill me out, but hit no good targets for the Rise from the Grave he had in hand (I assumed). A Sphinx Rev into two Wurms let me seal the deal.
Overall, the matches weren't too exciting. 2/3 of my opponents were running less-than-competitive decks, so I can't say I was able to learn too much. However, I do really like Farseek in the deck. When we have no countermagic or other answers, going turn two Farseek so we can hit a turn 3 Wurm or Rewind is pretty crippling for our foes. However, I think it's a definite side out against aggro, as it just isn't a sufficient enough play.
I also agree with Trostani being a little slow. Feeling of Dread has consistently been an all-star, however. Maybe a third Feeling of Dread or maybe two Centaur Healers? Or Heroes' Reunion, as discussed earlier. I think Trostani has some good merits, but basically the deck just wants a Druid's Deliverance effect instead. Buying us time + possibly getting another Wurm/Knight is pretty key.
So i think I'll take Trostani out and put in +2 Druid's Deliverance or +2 Heroes Reunion.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I'll try running 2 Feeling of Dread but I feel it will be the same with Heroes' Reunion, Have in first 9/10 cards or lose. Maybe I have been having really bad luck with the two decks I have been playing the past 2/3 weeks ,where I have the choice of Feeling of Dread/Heroes etc etc but I really hate relying on cards I need in my first 10. Even with Lifelink/Wurm/Angels I don't see this being stable against decks that push out 18 damage in 3 turns but I guess we will see.
Better off going Triple on Feeling of Dread for Consistency then a 2/2 split.
Pretty obvious, that's why he's good in this deck, a high-quality cantrip with a body attached is always welcome. Anyway I hate him 14% of the time especially when he reveals a Snapcaster Mage with my graveyard full of answers... the 'absorbs damage' part is way better for Wolfir Avenger, even with different timing (and I think this is a plus for Wolfir, given the number of cc2 spells in the deck), and when you have a Geist of Saint Traft attacking you, Wolfir makes a BIG difference. Still testing thought, and hoping to switch back to Augur
2 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Temple Garden
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Azorius Charm
2 Rewind
1 Syncopate
2 Think Twice
3 Thought Scour
3 Unsummon
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Dissipate
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Selesnya Charm
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Renounce the Guilds
2 Dispel
1 Psychic Spiral
2 Purify the Grave
2 Feeling of Dread
I kept Psychic Spiral in mostly cause I knew there would be people there that like playing Drownyard and I know how good it is against them.
Round 1: 0-2
I'm playing against a friend of mine who brewed some Jund splash white. It's got typical Jund cards plus Sire of Insanity, Assemble the Legion, Garruk, Primal Hunter, one Thragtusk, etc.
Game one he resolves Assemble the Legion and I lose a few turns later. I couldn't win in time and it just wasn't a race I could make. I wasn't exactly winning beforehand, he kept Putrefying tokens and putting pressure so I just wasn't getting there yet. Game two, he resolved Garruk and I couldn't make tokens or get Restoration Angels in play to kill it. He had a lot of 3/3 tokens to stall my Wurms and his own Restoration Angel to block mine and I just never got there.
Round 2: 0-2
Playing against a friend playing a homebrew Jund Scavenge deck. It was using Varolz to play cards like Vexing Devil, Hellhole Flailer, Dreg Mangler, etc. The deck works on Scavenging creatures with Varolz for value while providing pressure on me with the creatures. For example, I need to take 4 from Vexing Devil and then they scavenge for value.
Game one I flooded like no tomorrow. I drew 15 lands in 22ish cards. Augur of Bolas also hit three lands so it missed, and I scooped with three lands in hand. I can't really beat them when I draw nothing, not the deck's fault here. Game two ended up much the same. It overall went better but I can't Supreme Verdict through Varolz or Dreg Mangler so it was problematic. I drew a few too many lands again and the game wasn't ever in my favour.
Round 3: 2-0
At this point I'm doing bad and I'm facing someone that's bad. There are casuals at Game Day and it was just overall not fun to crush him. My round note literally says "played against a 60 card draft deck". He cast Farseek and got a Plains when he wanted a Forest (aka no Shocks), Seller of Songbirds, Eyes in the Sky, just not good cards. In fact, it was so bad that I beat him without taking any damage.
Round 4: 2-1
This is the only good round of the day. I'm playing against a guy from the other store (my LGS has two locations), he's probably a bit better than me. He was playing UWR control.
Game one we're going toe to toe and I just sort of pull ahead a bit from Snapcasters and Rewinds. I Azorius Charm'd an Aetherling that blocked a Wurm, so he exiled his Aetherling and took 5 from the trample. Eventually we got to a state where he tapped out, except for one mana, for a big Sphinx's Revelation, going to 9 life, and I had a Wurm and two Snapcasters in play with 6 mana available. I cast Restoration Angel, blink Snapcaster, flashback Selesnya Charm for a 2/2. I have 9 power aside from the Wurm so he couldn't stop the attack.
Game two, he pulled ahead from early Geist, which I did kill, but he proceeded to play Assemble the Legion and I couldn't beat it. It got to 5 and yeah, it's just troubling for me.
Game three, he missed his third or fourth land drop and I pulled far ahead at that point. Rewinds and Snaps again, that is actually such good value. Rewind to Snap to Wurm is the best thing this deck can do in my opinion.
Overall I went 2-2 and I didn't think the deck was so good for the meta. It has a lot of aggro here and it has trouble beating it in my opinion. I was running a decent amount of aggro stuff but I really just think this deck isn't as good right now. I also found out early on that it simply can't beat non-creature permanents like Planeswalkers or Assemble the Legion. I suppose if I had played Ray of Revelation I could beat Assemble the Legion but most of the discussion about why to play Ray was to beat the Geist Aura deck, not Assemble the Legion. Going forward, I'd recommend general purpose cards, like Detention Sphere or Cyclonic Rift. I'm a really huge fan of Cyclonic Rift and it's a really good answer to Assemble the Legion.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I'm also running 2 think twice, but I'm considering cutting them which may necessitate the use of a fourth scour, but I'm not sure yet.
Current list in case anyone cares:
3 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Augur of Bolas
Others
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Azorius Charm
1 Renounce the Guilds
2 Rewind
1 Runechanter's Pike
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Syncopate
3 Thought Scour
3 Unsummon
4 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Aetherling
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Renounce the Guilds
2 Dispel
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Heroes Reunion/Loxodon Smiter (undecided)
This deck laughs at and tears apart most midrange decks.
Round 1: America with Black/Grixis with White Midrange
First game little bit of draw go to being, pressured with selesyna tokens to force some removal cause I was stuck on 4 land, he got to 7 mana and Tried to Rakdos Return me for 6, Rewinded and Advent of the Wurm, protected with Simic Charm/Flashback, easy game 1. He Resolved Assemble the Legion as well but after a few tokens, an EOT Overloaded Cyclonic Rift was gg to Tokens, Assemble and his Olivia.
Game 2, he kind of got land screwed, (stuck on 4) I wasn't much better either, pressured with early Selesyna Charms, held and rolled with counterspells, wurms and simic charm protect. Won on the back of a sphinx for 5 after he Mizzium Mortar overloaded an Angel and a Wurm.
Round 2: Red/Black Aggro
Won both matchups pretty easy, not so much on any of my sideboard either, Selesyna Charm,Rewind/Wurm / Augur and Cyclonic Rift all lead to blow outs even against Lilliana and Hellriders.
Sideboarded in Feeling of Dread and Supreme Verdict. Used Supreme Once, and thought scourred a Feeling of Dread but only to use it offensively.
Round 3 Green White Tokens.
Not much to say here either, with all the bounce effects I had it was pretty simple as to azoirus charm the call of conclaves etc and hold up Rewind for His wurms and Trostani and just flash in my own and protect with Simic Charm. Reallly bad matchup for him.
He dropped Garruk and some Intangible Virtues but just one more reason a 1 Cyclonic Rift is an amazing card. Overloaded all tokens and Virtues/Garruk and swung in for game with a pike is how both of the games went.
Round 4 - Esper Control
Long Grindy match, won on having 1 more counterspell than him during an Aetherling CS War. Got ahead by flashing back a rewind for the final counter which allowed me to play the Wurm and swing in for like 28 with Pike.
Game 2 was a bit of the same, he sided in some Pike and Token hate? I guess. I came with 2 Dispels , 1 Negate , Aetherling and a 1 of Renounce the Guilds for his Sorin and Obzedat. He resolved Obzedat, I renounce and Wurmed, he then resolved Sorin and 2nd Obzedat. Some intense racing went on, but with an EOT Overloaded Cyclonic Rift and some CS Wars, I won the battle. He then trying Azorius Charming or Warped Psyqiuing my 22/1 Snapcaster, but Simic Charm Hexproof chose to be too strong.
Overall Gameday Experience
Cyclonic Rift is definitely a card and amazing for game 1s, if you play Unsummon, might as well play this because it helps against the Planeswalkers/Enchantment decks.
Simic Charm - Another Allstar of the day, Resolving a Wurm or any other big threat if it is Runechanter's Piked, and getting to untap, is almost GG with 1 of these charms and then maybe a Snapcaster to go on top of it. For decks that play one for one removal, most of which are sorcery speed ie Dreadbore/Mizzium Mortars etc it is great to hexproof the first and watch them have to ship the turn and normally not have much removal after that.
Aetherling Hit or miss on Aetherling but could definitely be a card vs Control Matchups. I have a 1/1 Split with 1 Aetherling and 1 Curse of Echoes
Plenty of more tournaments to go, will report in little by little.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)