Do you think this card has a home in Bant Pants? It is clearly designed for the deck: the one weakness of the deck is sacrifice based removal when you only have your best creature on the battlefield. This guy gets rid of that problem by giving you a bunch of extra dudes.
The problem is that it is a 4 drop. The current auras deck tends to want to puke out its hand right away to force an early conclusion, it's not terribly fond of waiting until turn 5 to even start playing the auras, and this is just as vulnerable to sweepers as any hexproof creature. If the auras deck slows down or maybe just keeps this as a side against control to get more value over a long game, but i think not in the main.
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So this card is a lot like Talrand, the Sky Summoner although enchantments are clearly much worse/more narrow than instant and sorcery spells and 2/2 white cats pale in comparison to 2/2 flying drakes. They share similar weaknesses as well, being too high on the curve for it to truly matter when they start paying dividends in their respective decks/theoretical archetypes. The only upside I see here is the fact that Theros is hinted to be an enchantment oriented set.
As for Bant Hexproof, I echo Actinium's sentiments. It's too slow.
I'm not counting this guy out. There are some very powerful aura in RtR block. This guy gives your opponent no good options in responding to an aura.
If you point the removal at the chosen it's trigger is still on the stack. That will resolve before the aura does on the stack so it will get attached to the 2/2 token that was made. Either way your aura gets on the field and attached to something. It takes away the 2 for 1 vulnerabilities of auras.
If you do not attach it to the token and they kill your chosen you are still left with a 2/2 token.
The potential is there. We'll see how it pans out.
I think the question should be whether this is/will be playable in a G/W shell depending on whether or not Rancor is reprinted in M14. Fitting into Bant Hexproof in it's current shell, absolutely not.
If not Rancor, then some very good aura similar to it needs to happen for an otherwise vanilla 4 for 3/3 to have build around potential.
All in all, this card is either marginal/completely worthless, or if it ends up being awesome then it's going to be based on the strength of other cards.
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
if it ends up being awesome then it's going to be based on the strength of other cards.
Agreed. Magic does seem to be shifting towards this more synergistic core. That's why I said this card has potential and I'm not just overlooking it.
Holy Mantle, madcap skills, Persuit of flight, and holy mantle are all pretty strong auras. With mark of vampirism looks like we'll have another cycle of auras from the core set too.
I hope auras get some love because its been a very long time and even rancor isn't good enough anymore. That speaks volumes to the state of the auras.
I don't see this so much as working in an aura deck as an enchantment deck.
There are a lot of big, powerful enchantments that have already been spoiled in M14. Combine those with what will carry over from Ravnica and you've got the potential for an interesting deck. I'm not sure if it'll be "pillow fort" styled or not, but the potential is definitely there.
I'm not counting this guy out. There are some very powerful aura in RtR block. This guy gives your opponent no good options in responding to an aura.
If you point the removal at the chosen it's trigger is still on the stack. That will resolve before the aura does on the stack so it will get attached to the 2/2 token that was made. Either way your aura gets on the field and attached to something. It takes away the 2 for 1 vulnerabilities of auras.
If you do not attach it to the token and they kill your chosen you are still left with a 2/2 token.
The potential is there. We'll see how it pans out.
Um, they can just doom blade whatever you're enchanting with the Aura in the first place?
Um, they can just doom blade whatever you're enchanting with the Aura in the first place?
Actually it saves the enchantment. If I target something like a Strangleroot Geist with the enchantment and they doomblade it, after doomblade resolves the enchantment has no target but Ajani's Chosen's trigger says you may attach the aura to the new cat so the enchantment doesn't die. This also saves a Rancor from ever going to the graveyard.
No, the Aura gets countered and never enters play since it no longer has a legal target.
"303.4g If an Aura is entering the battlefield and there is no legal object or player for it to enchant, the Aura remains in its current zone, unless that zone is the stack. In that case, the Aura is put into its owner's graveyard instead of entering the battlefield."
No, the Aura gets countered and never enters play since it no longer has a legal target.
"303.4g If an Aura is entering the battlefield and there is no legal object or player for it to enchant, the Aura remains in its current zone, unless that zone is the stack. In that case, the Aura is put into its owner's graveyard instead of entering the battlefield."
I'm not saying you're incorrect but what would be the point of the second half of the card then? Why even state that you could attach it to the cat token if it doesn't "cost" anything to attach the enchantment past the actual casting cost? I mean it's not like you wouldn't be able to attach it to the cat token regardless.
I'm confused.
Edit: Nevermind, it's late. You couldn't choose the token as a target because it's not actually on the field yet ><.
So could you not just wait for the spell to resolve, stick to the intended target, then doom blade/etc the target? Doesn't stop the 2 for 1 in that case.
So could you not just wait for the spell to resolve, stick to the intended target, then doom blade/etc the target? Doesn't stop the 2 for 1 in that case.
Yes it does because if you attach it to the token and then doomblade the token all you lost was the aura. Not an actual card + aura. You should never be casting the aura unless you are intending on sticking it on the token to begin with.
guys, I already posted the ruling. if the original creature you are trying to enchant gets doom bladed in response, aura fizzles and you don't get a cat. card is bad.
DTG99 you are correct. If he had bothered to actually read through the post I explained how it works.
The entire point of this guy is to prevent the 2 for 1 that removal creates vs auras.
It doesn't say "whenever you cast an enchantment", it says "whenever an enchantment enters the battlefield under your control". It doesn't trigger until the enchantment spell resolves. The enchantment spell won't resolve if it's an aura and you remove the aura's target. Talrand at least has the decency of triggering off of the cast. This is just a terrible version of Talrand, with a more restrictive triggering mechanism, a less useful result, with a less useful card type. My guess is it will be playable in almost nothing except specific build-arounds that are some sort of turbo fog/enchantment pillow fort shenanigans.
No, the Aura gets countered and never enters play since it no longer has a legal target.
"303.4g If an Aura is entering the battlefield and there is no legal object or player for it to enchant, the Aura remains in its current zone, unless that zone is the stack. In that case, the Aura is put into its owner's graveyard instead of entering the battlefield."
Since the token creation resolves before the aura, the token exists as a legal object and the aura can be attached according to the ruling above.
If the aura is Unflinching Courage and you wait for the aura to resolve before Doom Blading, your opponent does get 2 for (1+token)ed.
That doesn't make it a good card, but please think about what Wizards is trying to do here.
Since the token creation resolves before the aura, the token exists as a legal object and the aura can be attached according to the ruling above.
If the aura is Unflinching Courage and you wait for the aura to resolve before Doom Blading, your opponent does get 2 for (1+token)ed.
That doesn't make it a good card, but please think about what Wizards is trying to do here.
Please refer to the post IMMEDIATELY above yours. Token creation triggers after the aura resolves. It doesn't trigger on cast, it triggers on entering the battlefield. Read the card.
Please refer to the post IMMEDIATELY above yours. Token creation triggers after the aura resolves. It doesn't trigger on cast, it triggers on entering the battlefield. Read the card.
The way I see it, you can do this any of three ways. They all add up to the same thing.
1. Simple version: ETB effects resolve before the card itself. The token is created before the aura resolves.
2. Common sense: Read the card. Look at the last sentence. Assume that Wizards has a purpose in putting that on the card. On the above quoted interpretation, the last sentence would have no point, so the interpretation is incorrect.
3: Technical interpretation: Aura goes on stack, Create token goes on stack, kill spell goes on stack (the order of these last two doesn't matter), kill spell resolves, token creation resolves, aura resolves with token as a legal target.
Do you think this card has a home in Bant Pants? It is clearly designed for the deck: the one weakness of the deck is sacrifice based removal when you only have your best creature on the battlefield. This guy gets rid of that problem by giving you a bunch of extra dudes.
As for Bant Hexproof, I echo Actinium's sentiments. It's too slow.
If he cost 3 I feel like you might get away with him finding a home somewhere, but it is unlikely.
Dega midrange 1-0
However I'm not sure that the 2 enchantment combo really wants to be in a deck with him instead of a really grindy deck.
If you point the removal at the chosen it's trigger is still on the stack. That will resolve before the aura does on the stack so it will get attached to the 2/2 token that was made. Either way your aura gets on the field and attached to something. It takes away the 2 for 1 vulnerabilities of auras.
If you do not attach it to the token and they kill your chosen you are still left with a 2/2 token.
The potential is there. We'll see how it pans out.
If not Rancor, then some very good aura similar to it needs to happen for an otherwise vanilla 4 for 3/3 to have build around potential.
Spectral Flight is rotating, Rancor may be rotating, Abundant Growth is rotating.
All in all, this card is either marginal/completely worthless, or if it ends up being awesome then it's going to be based on the strength of other cards.
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Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
Agreed. Magic does seem to be shifting towards this more synergistic core. That's why I said this card has potential and I'm not just overlooking it.
Holy Mantle, madcap skills, Persuit of flight, and holy mantle are all pretty strong auras. With mark of vampirism looks like we'll have another cycle of auras from the core set too.
I hope auras get some love because its been a very long time and even rancor isn't good enough anymore. That speaks volumes to the state of the auras.
There are a lot of big, powerful enchantments that have already been spoiled in M14. Combine those with what will carry over from Ravnica and you've got the potential for an interesting deck. I'm not sure if it'll be "pillow fort" styled or not, but the potential is definitely there.
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Um, they can just doom blade whatever you're enchanting with the Aura in the first place?
Actually it saves the enchantment. If I target something like a Strangleroot Geist with the enchantment and they doomblade it, after doomblade resolves the enchantment has no target but Ajani's Chosen's trigger says you may attach the aura to the new cat so the enchantment doesn't die. This also saves a Rancor from ever going to the graveyard.
"303.4g If an Aura is entering the battlefield and there is no legal object or player for it to enchant, the Aura remains in its current zone, unless that zone is the stack. In that case, the Aura is put into its owner's graveyard instead of entering the battlefield."
I'm not saying you're incorrect but what would be the point of the second half of the card then? Why even state that you could attach it to the cat token if it doesn't "cost" anything to attach the enchantment past the actual casting cost? I mean it's not like you wouldn't be able to attach it to the cat token regardless.
I'm confused.
Edit: Nevermind, it's late. You couldn't choose the token as a target because it's not actually on the field yet ><.
The entire point of this guy is to prevent the 2 for 1 that removal creates vs auras.
Yes it does because if you attach it to the token and then doomblade the token all you lost was the aura. Not an actual card + aura. You should never be casting the aura unless you are intending on sticking it on the token to begin with.
It doesn't say "whenever you cast an enchantment", it says "whenever an enchantment enters the battlefield under your control". It doesn't trigger until the enchantment spell resolves. The enchantment spell won't resolve if it's an aura and you remove the aura's target. Talrand at least has the decency of triggering off of the cast. This is just a terrible version of Talrand, with a more restrictive triggering mechanism, a less useful result, with a less useful card type. My guess is it will be playable in almost nothing except specific build-arounds that are some sort of turbo fog/enchantment pillow fort shenanigans.
Since the token creation resolves before the aura, the token exists as a legal object and the aura can be attached according to the ruling above.
If the aura is Unflinching Courage and you wait for the aura to resolve before Doom Blading, your opponent does get 2 for (1+token)ed.
That doesn't make it a good card, but please think about what Wizards is trying to do here.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Please refer to the post IMMEDIATELY above yours. Token creation triggers after the aura resolves. It doesn't trigger on cast, it triggers on entering the battlefield. Read the card.
RTFC
Makes no since why this isn't a cast trigger.
Mana Bloom looks like the obvious play with this guy.
The way I see it, you can do this any of three ways. They all add up to the same thing.
1. Simple version: ETB effects resolve before the card itself. The token is created before the aura resolves.
2. Common sense: Read the card. Look at the last sentence. Assume that Wizards has a purpose in putting that on the card. On the above quoted interpretation, the last sentence would have no point, so the interpretation is incorrect.
3: Technical interpretation: Aura goes on stack, Create token goes on stack, kill spell goes on stack (the order of these last two doesn't matter), kill spell resolves, token creation resolves, aura resolves with token as a legal target.
Okay, now please show me what I did wrong.:)
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.