My first build was using 3 creatures as my win conditions and they were nivix cyclops, guttersnipe and delver (set of each). My main combo or win con was with cyclops and the rest from either delver and guttersnipe and the rest of my spells were for board control. I finished badly at 4-5 and this is in WMCQ. Aggro was not the problem because my wins came from matches against aggro. However, my losses were all from midrange and control decks. So after that day, I rebuild my deck and tried and tested other builds including the RUG version (cyclops + flesh // blood + artful dodge combo). Until I finally fine tuned it and make it to first recently with the build i just posted earlier. Focusing more on eliminating blockers get my combo done with high accuracy. Against control, I just put in enough pressure with limited creatures on board forcing my opponent to waste his spells on the misdirection i placed on my battlefield then finally bringing my combo to finish him off.
I originally started with Snapcaster Mage in there but I found that he wasn't doing near enough work. Mizzium Skin is a real winner here protecting the team along with Unsummon.
I also started with white in the deck for Boros Charm along with some of the incidental stuff like Faith's Shield (I don't have access to Geist of Saint Traft) but after playing with Armed//Dangerous I decided that I could cut white for smoother mana.
It seems like 70% of the wins come from getting Nivix Cyclops on the board with an Artful Dodge in the graveyard and casting Armed along with Artful Dodge and another 1 drop.
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I got to play with the deck last night and beat gruul aggro pretty well, but lost to Naya. Hard. My creatures are cyclops, Reckoner and snipe. The cyclops combo is what demolishes. One guy looked at me like I was crazy, but didn't realize the cyclops loses defender, so when I first played him he thought nothing of it, then ideas able to swing for 11, and he woke up about it.
It's still a newer combo and deck, so it will take people by surprise.
After more testing, I've discovered that Feeling of Dread is huge for the deck (and takes the place of Snapcaster Mage). It clears out blockers, buys lots of time against aggro mirrors, and does everything the deck wants to do.
I don't feel comfortable cutting white as many of my wins come from the burn mode of Boros Charm and the additional protection against sweepers it affords us is invaluable. Feeling of Dread and Geist of Saint Traft are also outstanding.
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"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -Albert Einstein
After more testing, I've discovered that Feeling of Dread is huge for the deck (and takes the place of Snapcaster Mage). It clears out blockers, buys lots of time against aggro mirrors, and does everything the deck wants to do.
I don't feel comfortable cutting white as many of my wins come from the burn mode of Boros Charm and the additional protection against sweepers it affords us is invaluable. Feeling of Dread and Geist of Saint Traft are also outstanding.
I agree about not cutting white. I really didn't have enough answers at all last night without white.
mine is straightforward red blue colors only. armed // dangerous is the spell that grants doublestrike in red. i recently finished first with this deck:
How consistent is the deck without running playsets? Do you ever miss having them, or does 3 usually do it for you? I'd be worried about running into disruption and then not drawing another piece when I need it. Though I suppose with 7 draw spells there's a decent amount of digging.
I'm currently working on a straight UR version so I don't plan on including Feeling Of Dread. Would Nightbird's Clutches or Hands of Binding be a suitable replacement? Or is it the instant speed that makes Dread so much power compared to the other options?
Are most people running Mizzium Skin in the main now or is that more of a sideboard card?
How consistent is the deck without running playsets? Do you ever miss having them, or does 3 usually do it for you? I'd be worried about running into disruption and then not drawing another piece when I need it. Though I suppose with 7 draw spells there's a decent amount of digging.
I'm currently working on a straight UR version so I don't plan on including Feeling Of Dread. Would Nightbird's Clutches or Hands of Binding be a suitable replacement? Or is it the instant speed that makes Dread so much power compared to the other options?
Are most people running Mizzium Skin in the main now or is that more of a sideboard card?
Thanks.
well 3x cards of same type works well with me. mizzium skin is sideboard material against especially to abrupt decay. dispel as mainboard work fine with me. it all depends on the meta in your neighborhood wether you want this card to be main or just sideboard.
It's a similar, streamlined version of Woo's deck, but took his idea's a step further by focusing on synergy over stronger cards, i.e. trading in snapcaster mage and searing spear for the full 4 feeling of dread and a 1-of azorius charm. The charm is better at racing than snapcaster, as his damage potential and general redundancy is less impressive than azorius charm's life gain potential and overall versatility. Also more flashback cards means snap caster is worse, yada yada. He was underperforming, even as a 1-of, and azorius charm is sweet.
But anyway, what truly impresses me about this deck is it's consistency. izzet charm and ESPECIALLY faithless looting are insane at letting me consistently get a turn 3 threat and then the cards to protect it for the win. Because of that, making izzet charm and faithless looting as consistent as possible is the highest priority, and the main reason for cutting the "better" cards.
Sb is always in flux, as it changes based on the meta. But it definitely has answers to everything, given its 3 colors. I don't want to give away my secrets, but it's basically like woo's (I play online) but with even sweeter, more synergistic cards (;
So..... turn 3 Cyclops, turn 4 artful dodge, faithless looting, Azorious charm, they lose 10 life you gain 10 life.
Amidoinitrite?
If you're facing an aggro deck, than sure, as you're racing. Against other decks maybe not. My favorite opening on the play is
turn 1 faithless looting
turn 2 izzet charm (loot)
turn 3 geist
turn 4 guttersnipe, flash back artful dodge on geist (8 damage)
turn 5 flashback FoD and play any other spell, attack with both, gain 12, 4 direct damage, 4 in the air (12 damage)
How is the favorite play not:
Turn 1: Faithless looting
Turn 2: anything
Turn 3: Nivix Cyclops
Turn 4: artful dodge, armed/boros charm, any other 1 drop spell for lethal
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I'm looking forward to M14 solely because Young Pyromancer is a thing. Of course, it changes the nature of this deck pretty heavily, because a bunch of 1/1 tokens are only going to be effective with something like dynacharge or weapon surge sitting around. I'm currently spending the day on Cockatrice testing out this list:
Currently thinking that, like most of the other situations with this deck, playing against anything with decent removal is frustrating. There's just no way to build back up if your first two threats get immediately *****slapped (as has happened with me versus Golgari Control multiple matches in a row).
Very happy with how Chandra, Pyromaster has been playing so far... her +1 has been doing work for me, making Voices unable to block and hitting for a damage, killing mana dorks and hitting for a damage, and allowing my guys to get through.
Definitely thinking Izzet Charm needs to go in, immediately. That could easily stop a removal spell... but it can't really protect our threats the same turn unless we wait to have four mana, which just seems to be a bit much and way too late to do anything. Without flashback, having both Faithless Looting and this seems to be too much.
Considering trying out Teleportal, not sure what for, though.
One way to get creatures out asap and still have enough mana open to protect them is to put Hidden Strings onto Delver. You can cast Hidden Strings turn three, untapping your lands then tap out for Nivix Cyclops, attack with a cyphered Delver then untap two lands. Now you have two lands untapped that you can use to cast Izzet Charm in response to your opponent's removal.
Now proceed to attack with at 10/4 double striking unblockable Nivix Cyclops.
As an added benefit, Hidden Strings doesn't just enable your Cyclops strategy, it also creates a wincon with Guttersnipe: cast Hidden Strings (cyphered onto Guttersnipe), cast Artful Dodge with flashback, and cast Armed//Dangerous. When Guttersnipe attacks you will get two cypher triggers that you can use to untap four lands. If all this happens, then you will get 12 damage from 'snipe triggers and 6 damage from combat. If you have another spell in hand or a flashback card in your graveyard then you can finish them off. After all, you have four untapped lands.
For real: I play this deck in strictly Izzet colors and use only basic lands. With a full four Faithless Looting and Izzet Charm, I am able to dig effectively enough in the first or second turn to play all my spells all the time. Not that I wouldn't like to have the dual lands but it is not strictly necessary to have them if you can limit yourself to only two colors.
Yeah, the dig is fine, I think. But I'm gearing this towards a shell that can stay relevant after INN rotates, because flashback is rotating, so pitching Think Twice or Artful Dodge or Faithless Looting when you loot won't be a thing anymore. So, since we can't cast things from our graveyard anymore, what's the next course of action?
I considered only playing cards that replace themselves with draw effects, but that's too limited of a scope.
I think fitting this into a more control-heavy shell is the only way to go, now. Though I will say running so much burn in the current iteration is doing alright, I'd prefer to just straight up nullify their spells off the bat.
Teleportal is going to be a real winner here, I think. Also considering Dragonshift, as it turns all those 1/1 tokens into 4/4 fliers and just wins the game outright.
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currently playing UWGbant flashGWU UBdimir mill-controlBU
For real: I play this deck in strictly Izzet colors and use only basic lands. With a full four Faithless Looting and Izzet Charm, I am able to dig effectively enough in the first or second turn to play all my spells all the time. Not that I wouldn't like to have the dual lands but it is not strictly necessary to have them if you can limit yourself to only two colors.
To be fair, once we hit October's rotation, we're going to have to see if any decks have the mana fixing anymore.
I would recommend this: invest in Shocklands. They'll be relevant for another year and a half, basically, and it'll open up the entire world of Magic to you, as the manabase won't be an issue anymore. I, too, wanted to stick to my colors and not spend money on dual lands, but they seem to be a good investment both short-term (next year+) and long term (as extended needs mana fixing as well).
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currently playing UWGbant flashGWU UBdimir mill-controlBU
Yeah, the dig is fine, I think. But I'm gearing this towards a shell that can stay relevant after INN rotates, because flashback is rotating, so pitching Think Twice or Artful Dodge or Faithless Looting when you loot won't be a thing anymore. So, since we can't cast things from our graveyard anymore, what's the next course of action?
I considered only playing cards that replace themselves with draw effects, but that's too limited of a scope.
I think fitting this into a more control-heavy shell is the only way to go, now. Though I will say running so much burn in the current iteration is doing alright, I'd prefer to just straight up nullify their spells off the bat.
Teleportal is going to be a real winner here, I think. Also considering Dragonshift, as it turns all those 1/1 tokens into 4/4 fliers and just wins the game outright.
Without flashback this deck is going to loose a lot of it's explosiveness, so it seems fair to alter the strategy towards something slower but more stable. That's going to mean having to keep one of your spell squeezers on the board for several turns. So running a load of counterspells seems like the way to do this.
As for cards that replace themselves (sort of) I like cypher spells. Hidden Strings and Hands of Binding work really well with Guttersnipe and I think they will work well with Young Pyromancer. The trick is to have someone with flying out turn one. When Delver rotates out, maybe use Judge's Familiar
Teleportal, Weapon Surge, and Dynacharge seem like a good fit with the Pyromancer token thing. Assuming you can actually pay the overload cost, Dragonshift would be really sweet. Do you have a plan on how to consistently reach 7cmc? I don't play control, I play agro, so I guess that if you are planning to play for more than 4 turns then you should be able to reach 7cmc. I just don't really like giving my opponent that many turns to set up their strategy.
I'm not so sure that INN block rotating out will be a big deal with the exception of the loss of a few cheap cantrip spells such as Faithless Looting & Desperate Ravings. Control has worked better for me for the most part. Cards such as Mizzium Skin and Dispel are fantastic for dealing with early removal and Hidden Strings is just an amazing card in this style of deck. Teleportal I feel is still only OK. I like Hands of Binding even more for getting around pesky creatures.
Pyromancer will be a must-add to these lists and I expect to add at least 2. I'm curious if anyone has researched any possible combos we can exploit with any of these tokens?
I'm also excited for Young Pyro as many others are. A couple tricks I've seen so far:
Turn-ing any attacking creature with a Pyro out lets you block with the fresh 1/1 and kill whatever the 0/1 is barring any +1/+1 counters.
Weapon Surge overloaded with a Pyro out gives you a surpsie 2/1 first strike blocker, enough to take out a Geist of St. Traft or some other x/2 nonsense. Alternatively with an untapped Pyro you've suddenly got 5 points of first strike blocking power for dealing with something big (Obzedat in the best case?).
These options can let you swing in with Pyro when possible and make your opponent think carefully about swinging back.
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Standard: UR Guttersnipe & Talrand
Modern: U Merfolk (in progress)
Legacy: RBurn
So does this deck just auto-fold to a turn-2 Thalia?
And you all seem to be talking nonstop about these amazing god-hands, but what do you do when you pump the crap out of your Nivix Dudethingy and your opponent shrugs and exiles it with Selesnya Charm?
I'm not seeing any realistic discussion here. All anyone seems to be talking about are the nut draws.
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My 360 Peasant+ Cube!. Modern borders where possible, usually with the newest (or "best") art, and always the most readable card text. I also run all 10 painlands. My playgroup is super casual, as we have a fair number of newer or less experienced players. Typically we draft with 4 to 6 people, using 5 packs of 9.
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4x Guttersnipe
4x Nivix Cyclops
Instant (16)
1x Fling
4x Izzet Charm
4x Mizzium Skin
4x Thought Scour
3x Unsummon
4x Armed
4x Artful Dodge
4x Faithless Looting
4x Pillar of Flame
Land (20)
1x Desolate Lighthouse
5x Island
6x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
I originally started with Snapcaster Mage in there but I found that he wasn't doing near enough work.
Mizzium Skin is a real winner here protecting the team along with Unsummon.
I also started with white in the deck for Boros Charm along with some of the incidental stuff like Faith's Shield (I don't have access to Geist of Saint Traft) but after playing with Armed//Dangerous I decided that I could cut white for smoother mana.
It seems like 70% of the wins come from getting Nivix Cyclops on the board with an Artful Dodge in the graveyard and casting Armed along with Artful Dodge and another 1 drop.
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It's still a newer combo and deck, so it will take people by surprise.
I don't feel comfortable cutting white as many of my wins come from the burn mode of Boros Charm and the additional protection against sweepers it affords us is invaluable. Feeling of Dread and Geist of Saint Traft are also outstanding.
I agree about not cutting white. I really didn't have enough answers at all last night without white.
How consistent is the deck without running playsets? Do you ever miss having them, or does 3 usually do it for you? I'd be worried about running into disruption and then not drawing another piece when I need it. Though I suppose with 7 draw spells there's a decent amount of digging.
I'm currently working on a straight UR version so I don't plan on including Feeling Of Dread. Would Nightbird's Clutches or Hands of Binding be a suitable replacement? Or is it the instant speed that makes Dread so much power compared to the other options?
Are most people running Mizzium Skin in the main now or is that more of a sideboard card?
Thanks.
4 nivix cyclops
4 blistercoil weird
4 augur of bolas
4 dynacharge
4 hidden strings
3 searing spear
3 think twice
3 uncanny speed
I added the augur's and think twice because I was running out of steam turn 3ish. Considering unsummon and blustersquall as well.
GBURThe EPIC StormRUBG
well 3x cards of same type works well with me. mizzium skin is sideboard material against especially to abrupt decay. dispel as mainboard work fine with me. it all depends on the meta in your neighborhood wether you want this card to be main or just sideboard.
Now that I'm done idolizing, here's my take on Izzet Blitz
4 hallowed fountain
4 steam vents
4 sulfur falls
4 sacred foundry
3 clifftop retreat
3 geist of saint traft
4 guttersnipe
4 nivix cyclops
Spells: 30
4 thought scour
4 feeling of dread
4 artful dodge
4 faithless looting
4 izzet charm
4 boros charm
4 pillar of flame
1 faith's shield
1 azorius charm
It's a similar, streamlined version of Woo's deck, but took his idea's a step further by focusing on synergy over stronger cards, i.e. trading in snapcaster mage and searing spear for the full 4 feeling of dread and a 1-of azorius charm. The charm is better at racing than snapcaster, as his damage potential and general redundancy is less impressive than azorius charm's life gain potential and overall versatility. Also more flashback cards means snap caster is worse, yada yada. He was underperforming, even as a 1-of, and azorius charm is sweet.
But anyway, what truly impresses me about this deck is it's consistency. izzet charm and ESPECIALLY faithless looting are insane at letting me consistently get a turn 3 threat and then the cards to protect it for the win. Because of that, making izzet charm and faithless looting as consistent as possible is the highest priority, and the main reason for cutting the "better" cards.
Sb is always in flux, as it changes based on the meta. But it definitely has answers to everything, given its 3 colors. I don't want to give away my secrets, but it's basically like woo's (I play online) but with even sweeter, more synergistic cards (;
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
Amidoinitrite?
If you're facing an aggro deck, than sure, as you're racing. Against other decks maybe not. My favorite opening on the play is
turn 1 faithless looting
turn 2 izzet charm (loot)
turn 3 geist
turn 4 guttersnipe, flash back artful dodge on geist (8 damage)
turn 5 flashback FoD and play any other spell, attack with both, gain 12, 4 direct damage, 4 in the air (12 damage)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
Turn 1: Faithless looting
Turn 2: anything
Turn 3: Nivix Cyclops
Turn 4: artful dodge, armed/boros charm, any other 1 drop spell for lethal
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4 blistercoil weird
4 young pyromancer
4 guttersnipe
4 hidden strings
4 shock
2 disperse
4 divination
3 blustersquall
3 Quicken
1 ral zarek
Maybe 2 of one instead of 1 of each
GBURThe EPIC StormRUBG
4 Nivix Cyclops
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Blustersquall
3 Disperse
4 Dynacharge
4 Shock
4 Faithless Looting
4 Hidden Strings
2 Ral Zarek
7 Island
7 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
Currently thinking that, like most of the other situations with this deck, playing against anything with decent removal is frustrating. There's just no way to build back up if your first two threats get immediately *****slapped (as has happened with me versus Golgari Control multiple matches in a row).
Very happy with how Chandra, Pyromaster has been playing so far... her +1 has been doing work for me, making Voices unable to block and hitting for a damage, killing mana dorks and hitting for a damage, and allowing my guys to get through.
Definitely thinking Izzet Charm needs to go in, immediately. That could easily stop a removal spell... but it can't really protect our threats the same turn unless we wait to have four mana, which just seems to be a bit much and way too late to do anything. Without flashback, having both Faithless Looting and this seems to be too much.
Considering trying out Teleportal, not sure what for, though.
UWGbant flashGWU
UBdimir mill-controlBU
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
Now proceed to attack with at 10/4 double striking unblockable Nivix Cyclops.
As an added benefit, Hidden Strings doesn't just enable your Cyclops strategy, it also creates a wincon with Guttersnipe: cast Hidden Strings (cyphered onto Guttersnipe), cast Artful Dodge with flashback, and cast Armed//Dangerous. When Guttersnipe attacks you will get two cypher triggers that you can use to untap four lands. If all this happens, then you will get 12 damage from 'snipe triggers and 6 damage from combat. If you have another spell in hand or a flashback card in your graveyard then you can finish them off. After all, you have four untapped lands.
I considered only playing cards that replace themselves with draw effects, but that's too limited of a scope.
I think fitting this into a more control-heavy shell is the only way to go, now. Though I will say running so much burn in the current iteration is doing alright, I'd prefer to just straight up nullify their spells off the bat.
Teleportal is going to be a real winner here, I think. Also considering Dragonshift, as it turns all those 1/1 tokens into 4/4 fliers and just wins the game outright.
UWGbant flashGWU
UBdimir mill-controlBU
To be fair, once we hit October's rotation, we're going to have to see if any decks have the mana fixing anymore.
I would recommend this: invest in Shocklands. They'll be relevant for another year and a half, basically, and it'll open up the entire world of Magic to you, as the manabase won't be an issue anymore. I, too, wanted to stick to my colors and not spend money on dual lands, but they seem to be a good investment both short-term (next year+) and long term (as extended needs mana fixing as well).
UWGbant flashGWU
UBdimir mill-controlBU
Without flashback this deck is going to loose a lot of it's explosiveness, so it seems fair to alter the strategy towards something slower but more stable. That's going to mean having to keep one of your spell squeezers on the board for several turns. So running a load of counterspells seems like the way to do this.
As for cards that replace themselves (sort of) I like cypher spells. Hidden Strings and Hands of Binding work really well with Guttersnipe and I think they will work well with Young Pyromancer. The trick is to have someone with flying out turn one. When Delver rotates out, maybe use Judge's Familiar
Teleportal, Weapon Surge, and Dynacharge seem like a good fit with the Pyromancer token thing. Assuming you can actually pay the overload cost, Dragonshift would be really sweet. Do you have a plan on how to consistently reach 7cmc? I don't play control, I play agro, so I guess that if you are planning to play for more than 4 turns then you should be able to reach 7cmc. I just don't really like giving my opponent that many turns to set up their strategy.
Pyromancer will be a must-add to these lists and I expect to add at least 2. I'm curious if anyone has researched any possible combos we can exploit with any of these tokens?
Turn-ing any attacking creature with a Pyro out lets you block with the fresh 1/1 and kill whatever the 0/1 is barring any +1/+1 counters.
Weapon Surge overloaded with a Pyro out gives you a surpsie 2/1 first strike blocker, enough to take out a Geist of St. Traft or some other x/2 nonsense. Alternatively with an untapped Pyro you've suddenly got 5 points of first strike blocking power for dealing with something big (Obzedat in the best case?).
These options can let you swing in with Pyro when possible and make your opponent think carefully about swinging back.
Modern: U Merfolk (in progress)
Legacy: RBurn
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=522709
And you all seem to be talking nonstop about these amazing god-hands, but what do you do when you pump the crap out of your Nivix Dudethingy and your opponent shrugs and exiles it with Selesnya Charm?
I'm not seeing any realistic discussion here. All anyone seems to be talking about are the nut draws.