There's no thread here for this deck, and I'd really like to get input from other people playing with this list/brewing with these cards.
This deck has put up excellent results and is both resilient and flexible in my experience. For those of you who haven't witnessed, behold the latest Woo brew:
Adding 2-3 damage with every spell will quickly allow you to count to 20. You can race most aggro decks (your spells can remove their threats and simultaneously deal damage via Snipe/Cyclops), and you have Izzet Charm to protect your threats against control (as well as a planeswalker-heavy board plan and plenty of inflexible burn to take out). The deck is at it's best against midrange (it doesn't have too much trouble generating 30-40 damage vs Thragtusk/Huntmaster decks), usually the only swap made is 2 Spears out and 2 Faith's Shield in.
Really the only times I've flat-out lost with the deck are games that I drew neither cyclops nor guttersnipe. A solution to the problem might be trying to find a similar creature or threat, but there's really nothing comparable right now.
The easiest hands to mulligan are the hands without a red source and no way to draw cards otherwise. The deck is very consistent and doesn't have these draws often.
This deck is COMPETITIVE! It has reached the top 4 of a PTQ and has been performing incredibly well for me online! I'd highly encourage you to test it out and take it to whatever event you play at, be it SCG Open, a PTQ, or even just your local FNM! Let me know what your thoughts are and any changes you might have for the deck!
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"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -Albert Einstein
my suggestion si that you really dont need to splash white. make it 20 r/u lands, 12 creatures (id suggest delver over snapcaster for early pressure, fluxcharger works as well) and then 18 spells (your list is pretty much what you want. consider the armed half of armed & dangerous.
then you go
t3 nivix
t4 artful dodge, flashback, play armed on nivix
swing for 11 unblockable double strike... 22 dmg and the win out of no where
I'd add think twice as it gives card draw and another flashback target for thought scour. A couple of runechanter's pikes would also give a better late game.
Double Striking a Cyclops seems worth including white all by itself. And I also agree that Snapcaster is better than Delver. Though the Delver synergy is obvious the more instants and sorcercies you cast the better, and Snapcaster helps with that. Especially given the presence of 12 cards that cause you to discard or self mill (I'm assuming you self mill with Thought Scour?).
I'm curious about the sideboard. Reckoner against aggro presumably? When do the plainswalkers come in - control?
Double Striking a Cyclops seems worth including white all by itself. And I also agree that Snapcaster is better than Delver. Though the Delver synergy is obvious the more instants and sorcercies you cast the better, and Snapcaster helps with that. Especially given the presence of 12 cards that cause you to discard or self mill (I'm assuming you self mill with Thought Scour?).
I'm curious about the sideboard. Reckoner against aggro presumably? When do the plainswalkers come in - control?
How does this deck fare against hexproof/auras?
Reckoner helps against both aggro and control, actually. He's an additional threat to play and protect against control (and he works quite well with harvest pyre), and he locks up the ground quite well. Planeswalkers are primarily for control, but Ral Zarek helps in the aggro matchup by giving you some extra removal for the smaller creatures they play (and he can take an attack for you if need be).
The deck went 2 - 1 against hexproof auras in the PTQ, losing to it in the semifinals. The guy who won playing against this deck actually changed his sideboard (adding fogs) before the tournament when he caught wind of the list. He won with a fog in response to an attack for 20.
Overall, I think the deck is on even footing at the very least with ghost pants. Playing first is a big deal in my experience, and I honestly believe that this deck is more resilient than Auras is due to the nature of it's threats. It doesn't intend to suit up one individual creature, only have one in play with a string of spells at the ready (Boros Charm and Izzet Charm are quite good at protecting your threats). The main difference I think is that auras would have an easier time with hyper-aggro coupled with burn because of the lifelink auras (primarily Unflinching Courage).
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"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -Albert Einstein
I have been brewing this deck for the past week or so. Have a few thoughts to add to Woo's deck.
I wonder if Geist of Saint Traft might be at the VERY least sideboard material, possibly even main deck. I think Armed//Dangerous should for sure go in if your going in that direction as then geist represents 10 damage. This deck feels great, but if your opponent removes all of your creatures I often feel left in a place of "What do I do now?". Handful of burn, but not enough to get the kill, wanting to hold on to the burn to drop another creature(That gets removed >.<).
I also think Skullcrack has a place in here somewhere. Depending on the metagame, it can be back breaking. Your opponent plays revelation, you skull crack, not only do they not gain 3-7 life, they lose life. Same goes with Thragtusk.
I'm a big fan of Boros Charm, its your biggest burn spell, and its so versatile.
I wonder if, albeit mana intensive, Annihilating Fire Might even be viable here? It would help with the hyper agro matchup, while still producing damage to the player. It seems like a good "replacement" 3 drop if you didn't draw cyclops or guttersnipe, that allows you to slow down the board state, and still keep decreasing the life total.
i love this deck but im on somewhat of a budget. for you guys who are playing it, how important is snapcaster? the manabase i can piece together with the help of friends but i wonder if either delver or a set of think twices mainboard would still allow the deck to run?
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Quote from DEADMANSEVEN »
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it put an evasive creature in its deck over a narrow hate card.
Quote from DARCYKUN »
If a card isn't worth your opponent removing, it's not worth putting in your deck.
I had the unfortunate luck of running into this deck the other night, it wrecked me and the cards that really helped it get there besides the obvious were:
Faith's Shield - Stop the removal spells or prevent blockers with protection
Feeling of dread - Stop the chumping plus it flashes back for value, it also stops people from out racing you pretty effectively.
I hope this deck is the real deal - I've been trying it out on MTGO and it is super fun to play. It can pull off wins out of nowhere (10/4 unblockable double-strikers will do that!) but I'm not sure how it will do when people are better prepared for it.
I hope this deck is the real deal - I've been trying it out on MTGO and it is super fun to play. It can pull off wins out of nowhere (10/4 unblockable double-strikers will do that!) but I'm not sure how it will do when people are better prepared for it.
Thanks for the heads up. I think this is gonna be a fun deck. I was just starting to work on an Izzet deck getting prepped for M14 to add Young Pyromancer into. This looks like the perfect deck for that.
Woo's list is awesome but I would argue my list is faster - and therefore better :tongue:. I can kill on T3 with my list have been tweaking it since Gatecrash and a ton since Dragon Maze. Here's my list:
Ideally this deck will cast Nivmagus Elemental on T1 and Hidden Strings on T2. With Hidden Strings it's surprisingly easy to get 10-12 positive card interactions (untap/tap/creature effect) in a single turn early on and you can absolutely blow away opponents before they really do anything. It's hard to visualize all the interactions that Hidden Strings can give you at first glance but when you realize you can untap your lands and that double-strike allows cipher to go off twice you start to understand what it can really do.
Mana base is tricky but I am having really good success with what I have so far. Also Sideboard is pretty crap but Dispel is a complete all-star for me. Some of my favourite spells to Dispel are: Simic Charm, Syncopate, Sphinx's Revelation and Searing Spear.
Looking ahead to M14, I see Young Pyromancer is coming and will likely bring me back to U/R and I'll play him over Dryad.
I have been playing the list for two tournaments now.
I have been slightly discouraged.
My over-all record has not been great.
I am pretty sure I went 2-4-3 or something like that and I am debating whether to give it up or not.
I read Woo's updated article, I had to agree with him on constantly ditching Snaps and Searing Spears.
Feeling of Dread seems like a great card to add.
I don't own any Geists and I am not picking any up this close to rotation.
So what do I do? MB Reckoner?
It does not seems like the worst idea.
On an interesting side note: Azorius Charm got run in my SB as a budget replacement for something.
I mention the card because it helped me turn a loss into a draw against an opponent who used Boros Reckoner, Unflinching Courage, and Boros Charm to gain 2 million life.
Undaunted, I am all "Well, screw this guy!" I become determine to draw the match.
I have Azorius Charm in the graveyard.
He gets me to 2 life before I pull it off.
I block with a Boros Reckoner, flash in a Snapcaster, flashback charm to give Reckoner lifelink, and follow with a Boros Charm, chain the damage into 7 million life and force the draw.
That.
Was.
Awesome.
So there is catharsis after all. I am torn on whether or not to give the deck up.
I feel like it is over my head and I am seeing obvious plays or something, several games have been lost to player error for sure.
It is a hard deck to play.
Anyways that's my rant.
P.S. I prefer the UWR version to RUG, just better consistency and instants.
It just speaks to me more.
Because why play spells on your own turn?
This is very much a thinkers deck, but you can really overthink with it. I've watched Woo play a couple games with this deck on YouTube and he lost a few because even he couldn't quite get the right combination to pop off because he had so many different options.
Been trying this deck out, as well, and I'm really... really... surprised to not see Mizzium Skin in at the SB.
I have to say that I'm very torn with the cutting of both the Snaps and Spears... I can totally see the value of Feeling of Dread, but I can only see it as more of a "on their turn" play that doesn't benefit the Cyclops' attack. Yeah it's nice if a Snipe is out... but they tend to get burned rather quickly.
At least with the Spear I can make something go away (with respect to undying and such).
As for the Snaps... man they are 50-50... some times I'm tired of it sitting in my hand to the point where I just want to use him as a chumper, and others he in the sole reason I was able to get a win out through flashing back the 14th point of damage off a Snipe.
Faithless Looting is a card I'm having some issues with. And this may be because my deck hasn't gotten to that perfect "seasoned" state yet, but I really can't stand seeing the card that often. Yeah it's cheap, but when when I'm sitting on a grip of things I need, but I'm looking for one more land... I know I'm going to lose out on the deal.
I tried to build this deck when the Cyclops was spoiled, using the same ideology as Woo, but I could never make it click. Luckily he put it together with a bit better skill and I'd love to make this the deck I take into the next Standard season (until I give up and go back to Possibility Storm or something XD). It just needs that little bit more... something.
Edit: Eff GoST... of course he's good int he deck... but he's good in pretty much every deck as he's a house. I refuse to play him out of the spite of never pulling one and the lack of funds to get one.
I was thinking of adding martial glory, goblin electromancer, in place of the Snapper, and divination. Divination seems like a decent card when you add the goblin, plus it will be in M14.
Glory gives the cyclopse 6 right there, plus a boros charm. That may be a harder mana to have right then though, but if you have artful dodge that may be a decent combo. There is just a ton of options out there.
i really think hidden strings should be at least a sideboard option.
This idea excited me when i had his article, but i don't like Nivix Cyclops. This is a more counterburn version that i'm looking at w/ m14 cards.
I don't like the cyclops because he actually has to attack and get through to be worthwhile, and then you start building around that (which i don't want to do). Young Pyromancer makes individual bodies, Guttersnipe just works, and Snapcaster can just be value and chump block.
Cyclops is extremely powerful and in a meta that is not prepared for it, he will just end games.
I am not sure I favor GoST over Boros Reckoner in the MB. Reckoner lets you take pyre as an additional out and can push damage through regardless of the match. It also lets you break into Slayer's Stronghold, which is probably one of the strongest things you can do with cards like Boris Reckoner. I will have a list soon.
The deck only runs 20 land. Turn / Burn costs 5 and I have found that reaching 5 mana is not only difficult but you have so many other things you want to do with the mana.
I thought about it too but I think some number of Searing Spear and the Pillar of Flame are most cost effective removal.
Also you can get around Reckoner by simply playing Artful Dodge.
The deck only runs 20 land. Turn / Burn costs 5 and I have found that reaching 5 mana is not only difficult but you have so many other things you want to do with the mana.
I thought about it too but I think some number of Searing Spear and the Pillar of Flame are most cost effective removal.
Also you can get around Reckoner by simply playing Artful Dodge.
The play to make is to cast Turn when your opponent is attacking or blocking with Boros Reckoner. If you're meta includes lots of Reckoners and Thragtusks it's worth playing or at least sideboarding.
Searing Spear and Pillar of Flame are too narrow for this deck. Cards such as Boros Charm and Izzet Charm provide extra value and can keep your creatures alive - against removal heavy decks you will just lose again and again as they kill all of your threats.
As for Reckoner, I like Hands of Binding/Hidden Strings & Artful Dodge to just tap him or go around him.
Cyclops is extremely powerful and in a meta that is not prepared for it, he will just end games.
It's definitely a powerful card, i just think he narrows the decks focus into playing cards that support him which happen to be individually low power level or just very narrow. Not playing any creatures that have to go through unblocked to have high impact (like my list) widens your choices of other cards. I'm not interested in casting Artful Dodge or Feeling of Dread etc.
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This deck has put up excellent results and is both resilient and flexible in my experience. For those of you who haven't witnessed, behold the latest Woo brew:
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Clifftop Retreat
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Mountain
Spells
4 Artful Dodge
4 Faithless Looting
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Thought Scour
4 Boros Charm
4 Izzet Charm
4 Searing Spear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Guttersnipe
4 Nivix Cyclops
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Ral Zarek
1 Harvest Pyre
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Faith's Shield
2 Electrickery
1 Warleader's Helix
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Think Twice
The idea behind the deck is to dig to a Guttersnipe or Nivix Cyclops, and then string together spells to create gigantic waves of damage. With guttersnipe, Searing Spear is 5 damage, Pillar of Flame is 4 damage, and Boros Charm is 6 damage.
Artful Dodge + Boros Charm + Nivix Cyclops = attacking for 20 unblockable damage on turn 4.
Adding 2-3 damage with every spell will quickly allow you to count to 20. You can race most aggro decks (your spells can remove their threats and simultaneously deal damage via Snipe/Cyclops), and you have Izzet Charm to protect your threats against control (as well as a planeswalker-heavy board plan and plenty of inflexible burn to take out). The deck is at it's best against midrange (it doesn't have too much trouble generating 30-40 damage vs Thragtusk/Huntmaster decks), usually the only swap made is 2 Spears out and 2 Faith's Shield in.
Really the only times I've flat-out lost with the deck are games that I drew neither cyclops nor guttersnipe. A solution to the problem might be trying to find a similar creature or threat, but there's really nothing comparable right now.
The easiest hands to mulligan are the hands without a red source and no way to draw cards otherwise. The deck is very consistent and doesn't have these draws often.
This deck is COMPETITIVE! It has reached the top 4 of a PTQ and has been performing incredibly well for me online! I'd highly encourage you to test it out and take it to whatever event you play at, be it SCG Open, a PTQ, or even just your local FNM! Let me know what your thoughts are and any changes you might have for the deck!
then you go
t3 nivix
t4 artful dodge, flashback, play armed on nivix
swing for 11 unblockable double strike... 22 dmg and the win out of no where
the list i want to put together is this
4 nivix cyclops
4 delver of secrets
4 guttersnipe
spells
4 thought scour
4 faithless looting
4 artful dodge
4 armed // dangerous
4 pillar of flame
4 searing spear
4 izzet charm
4 sulfer falls
4 steam vent
4 izzet guildgate
4 mountain
4 island
the guildgates are questionable but i think they are fine for fixing.
I'm curious about the sideboard. Reckoner against aggro presumably? When do the plainswalkers come in - control?
How does this deck fare against hexproof/auras?
He outlines the sideboard strategies very well. I love this list and am going to test it. I would not change much of anything.
Reckoner helps against both aggro and control, actually. He's an additional threat to play and protect against control (and he works quite well with harvest pyre), and he locks up the ground quite well. Planeswalkers are primarily for control, but Ral Zarek helps in the aggro matchup by giving you some extra removal for the smaller creatures they play (and he can take an attack for you if need be).
The deck went 2 - 1 against hexproof auras in the PTQ, losing to it in the semifinals. The guy who won playing against this deck actually changed his sideboard (adding fogs) before the tournament when he caught wind of the list. He won with a fog in response to an attack for 20.
Overall, I think the deck is on even footing at the very least with ghost pants. Playing first is a big deal in my experience, and I honestly believe that this deck is more resilient than Auras is due to the nature of it's threats. It doesn't intend to suit up one individual creature, only have one in play with a string of spells at the ready (Boros Charm and Izzet Charm are quite good at protecting your threats). The main difference I think is that auras would have an easier time with hyper-aggro coupled with burn because of the lifelink auras (primarily Unflinching Courage).
Thanks for the link, interesting read. I'm going to test it as well.
I wonder if Geist of Saint Traft might be at the VERY least sideboard material, possibly even main deck. I think Armed//Dangerous should for sure go in if your going in that direction as then geist represents 10 damage. This deck feels great, but if your opponent removes all of your creatures I often feel left in a place of "What do I do now?". Handful of burn, but not enough to get the kill, wanting to hold on to the burn to drop another creature(That gets removed >.<).
I also think Skullcrack has a place in here somewhere. Depending on the metagame, it can be back breaking. Your opponent plays revelation, you skull crack, not only do they not gain 3-7 life, they lose life. Same goes with Thragtusk.
I'm a big fan of Boros Charm, its your biggest burn spell, and its so versatile.
I wonder if, albeit mana intensive, Annihilating Fire Might even be viable here? It would help with the hyper agro matchup, while still producing damage to the player. It seems like a good "replacement" 3 drop if you didn't draw cyclops or guttersnipe, that allows you to slow down the board state, and still keep decreasing the life total.
Faith's Shield - Stop the removal spells or prevent blockers with protection
Feeling of dread - Stop the chumping plus it flashes back for value, it also stops people from out racing you pretty effectively.
I hope this deck is the real deal - I've been trying it out on MTGO and it is super fun to play. It can pull off wins out of nowhere (10/4 unblockable double-strikers will do that!) but I'm not sure how it will do when people are better prepared for it.
Thanks for the heads up. I think this is gonna be a fun deck. I was just starting to work on an Izzet deck getting prepped for M14 to add Young Pyromancer into. This looks like the perfect deck for that.
Woo's list is awesome but I would argue my list is faster - and therefore better :tongue:. I can kill on T3 with my list have been tweaking it since Gatecrash and a ton since Dragon Maze. Here's my list:
3 Nivix Cyclops
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Quirion Dryad
2 Rancor
3 Armed // Dangerous
2 Artful Dodge
2 Hands of Binding
4 Hidden Strings
1 Fling
2 Think Twice
2 Desperate Ravings
2 Izzet Charm
2 Dispel
2 Mizzium Skin
3 Ranger's Guile
4 Sulfer Vents
4 Stomping Grounds
2 Rootbound Crag
3 Hinterland Harbor
2 Breeding Pool
2 Island
1 Fling
3 Giant Growth
1 Izzet Charm
1 Ral Zarek
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Searing Spear
1 Unsummon
Ideally this deck will cast Nivmagus Elemental on T1 and Hidden Strings on T2. With Hidden Strings it's surprisingly easy to get 10-12 positive card interactions (untap/tap/creature effect) in a single turn early on and you can absolutely blow away opponents before they really do anything. It's hard to visualize all the interactions that Hidden Strings can give you at first glance but when you realize you can untap your lands and that double-strike allows cipher to go off twice you start to understand what it can really do.
Mana base is tricky but I am having really good success with what I have so far. Also Sideboard is pretty crap but Dispel is a complete all-star for me. Some of my favourite spells to Dispel are: Simic Charm, Syncopate, Sphinx's Revelation and Searing Spear.
Looking ahead to M14, I see Young Pyromancer is coming and will likely bring me back to U/R and I'll play him over Dryad.
I have been slightly discouraged.
My over-all record has not been great.
I am pretty sure I went 2-4-3 or something like that and I am debating whether to give it up or not.
I read Woo's updated article, I had to agree with him on constantly ditching Snaps and Searing Spears.
Feeling of Dread seems like a great card to add.
I don't own any Geists and I am not picking any up this close to rotation.
So what do I do? MB Reckoner?
It does not seems like the worst idea.
On an interesting side note: Azorius Charm got run in my SB as a budget replacement for something.
I mention the card because it helped me turn a loss into a draw against an opponent who used Boros Reckoner, Unflinching Courage, and Boros Charm to gain 2 million life.
Undaunted, I am all "Well, screw this guy!" I become determine to draw the match.
I have Azorius Charm in the graveyard.
He gets me to 2 life before I pull it off.
I block with a Boros Reckoner, flash in a Snapcaster, flashback charm to give Reckoner lifelink, and follow with a Boros Charm, chain the damage into 7 million life and force the draw.
That.
Was.
Awesome.
So there is catharsis after all. I am torn on whether or not to give the deck up.
I feel like it is over my head and I am seeing obvious plays or something, several games have been lost to player error for sure.
It is a hard deck to play.
Anyways that's my rant.
P.S. I prefer the UWR version to RUG, just better consistency and instants.
It just speaks to me more.
Because why play spells on your own turn?
I have to say that I'm very torn with the cutting of both the Snaps and Spears... I can totally see the value of Feeling of Dread, but I can only see it as more of a "on their turn" play that doesn't benefit the Cyclops' attack. Yeah it's nice if a Snipe is out... but they tend to get burned rather quickly.
At least with the Spear I can make something go away (with respect to undying and such).
As for the Snaps... man they are 50-50... some times I'm tired of it sitting in my hand to the point where I just want to use him as a chumper, and others he in the sole reason I was able to get a win out through flashing back the 14th point of damage off a Snipe.
Faithless Looting is a card I'm having some issues with. And this may be because my deck hasn't gotten to that perfect "seasoned" state yet, but I really can't stand seeing the card that often. Yeah it's cheap, but when when I'm sitting on a grip of things I need, but I'm looking for one more land... I know I'm going to lose out on the deal.
I tried to build this deck when the Cyclops was spoiled, using the same ideology as Woo, but I could never make it click. Luckily he put it together with a bit better skill and I'd love to make this the deck I take into the next Standard season (until I give up and go back to Possibility Storm or something XD). It just needs that little bit more... something.
Edit: Eff GoST... of course he's good int he deck... but he's good in pretty much every deck as he's a house. I refuse to play him out of the spite of never pulling one and the lack of funds to get one.
I was thinking of adding martial glory, goblin electromancer, in place of the Snapper, and divination. Divination seems like a decent card when you add the goblin, plus it will be in M14.
Glory gives the cyclopse 6 right there, plus a boros charm. That may be a harder mana to have right then though, but if you have artful dodge that may be a decent combo. There is just a ton of options out there.
i really think hidden strings should be at least a sideboard option.
I don't like the cyclops because he actually has to attack and get through to be worthwhile, and then you start building around that (which i don't want to do). Young Pyromancer makes individual bodies, Guttersnipe just works, and Snapcaster can just be value and chump block.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Guttersnipe
4 Shock
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Izzet Charm
2 Searing Spear
4 Essence Scatter
4 Dissipate
Draw (10)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Desperate Ravings
I am not sure I favor GoST over Boros Reckoner in the MB. Reckoner lets you take pyre as an additional out and can push damage through regardless of the match. It also lets you break into Slayer's Stronghold, which is probably one of the strongest things you can do with cards like Boris Reckoner. I will have a list soon.
Seems great against control and token decks.
i was also thinking about turn and burn for dealing with boros reckoner
Turn / Burn costs 5 and I have found that reaching 5 mana is not only difficult but you have so many other things you want to do with the mana.
I thought about it too but I think some number of Searing Spear and the Pillar of Flame are most cost effective removal.
Also you can get around Reckoner by simply playing Artful Dodge.
The play to make is to cast Turn when your opponent is attacking or blocking with Boros Reckoner. If you're meta includes lots of Reckoners and Thragtusks it's worth playing or at least sideboarding.
Searing Spear and Pillar of Flame are too narrow for this deck. Cards such as Boros Charm and Izzet Charm provide extra value and can keep your creatures alive - against removal heavy decks you will just lose again and again as they kill all of your threats.
As for Reckoner, I like Hands of Binding/Hidden Strings & Artful Dodge to just tap him or go around him.
It's definitely a powerful card, i just think he narrows the decks focus into playing cards that support him which happen to be individually low power level or just very narrow. Not playing any creatures that have to go through unblocked to have high impact (like my list) widens your choices of other cards. I'm not interested in casting Artful Dodge or Feeling of Dread etc.