Hm, I didn't realize the bit about ciphers and cyclops. Do you still think it's worth having hidden strings/hands of binding stick around for guttersnipe and yp? As our wincon seems to revolve around the tokens.
Speaking of which, how do we deal with all the token hate? Sideboard artifact removal? Splash white?
I'm thinking that splashing white for Boros Charm would be a solid idea. Just replace some of your mountains with Sacred Foundries (and/or Clifftop Retreats, at least until rotation). If someone drops a ratchet bomb, just make all your tokens indestructible. Alternatively, give Nivix Cyclops (or a dragon) double strike, or burn for 6+ with Guttersnipe(s) out.
Outside of the land, it is a super budget deck, but I think fairly effective, but I find that the young pyromancer doesn't end games, but with things like Teleportal can deliver quite large hits.
Wow, looks like a really really good deck. Will try it soon.
Another thought I had about this deck was after the rotation and Delver of Secrets is out, what would be good to replace it? I kind of want to work in Chandra's Pheonix, but I think it would be a bit slow, but an absolute pain to get rid of. I guess I would also replace Chandra, the Firebrand with Chandra, Pyromaster.
So I guess post rotation the deck would look something like:
Wow, looks like a really really good deck. Will try it soon.
Thanks, I have been testing it a bit, and it does alright, but I doesn't have a solid win con, which is one problem. Nivix Cyclops can do crushing amounts of damage, but I found that my largest hitters are generally Delver of Secrets when transformed. If I had them I would consider a Mizzium Mortars or 2 as well, just for larger creatures like Loxodon Smiter and Blood Baron of Vizkopa.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Thanks, I have been testing it a bit, and it does alright, but I doesn't have a solid win con, which is one problem. Nivix Cyclops can do crushing amounts of damage, but I found that my largest hitters are generally Delver of Secrets when transformed. If I had them I would consider a Mizzium Mortars or 2 as well, just for larger creatures like Loxodon Smiter and Blood Baron of Vizkopa.
Yeah, i got destroyed by a nivix cyclops. Cant do anything to that guy with like mizzuim skin and teleportal. Just 7/4 to my face. I dont find that funny at all.
Another thought I had was using Ral Zarek instead of Chandra, Pyromaster just because of his tap/untap ability and his more sizable burn to get rid of larger creatures now that Searing Spear is rotation out. Maybe one of each.
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Ral Zerek will be favored for a deck that needs heavier burn (and certain builds of this do). But, for me, I just see the Chandra as a Bob. A nice fat midrange Bob-girl. Just use that damn 0 ability like its going out of style.
Don't be stupid and, like, play a land before the ability. This chick will get you two cards per turn. While "bob" had the drawback of burning, this requires you only play the card - which with Young Delvers curve should be absolutely zero problem. Why is this dope? What is a burner decks greatest weakness, class?
Did you say it runs out of steam and resources before it can kill? You'd be right.
Not when that deck gets 2 cards per turn. Not when the opponent wont be able to keep a creature on the board moderately long enough to stop the continued advantage.
It was a fairly slow night, only 14 players, but I got 3rd place. Here's how it went...
Round 1: Up against a Golgari counters deck, using stuff like Varolz, Lotleth Troll, Hydras, Corpsejack, etc. Went 2-1 thanks to quantity over quality (Hybridization to turn a 12/12 Hydra into a 3/3 token helped too).
Round 2: 2-1 against a GWB deck, but it was close - he probably would have won game 3 if he hadn't mulled to 5. Voice of Resurgence is tricky and Blood Baron of Vizkopa stomped me hard until I could side in Mortars.
Round 3: 0-2 against RDW. Chandra and her phoenixes hurt, and Burning Earth completely owned me since I only have 5 basic lands in the deck.
Round 4: 2-1 against Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood combo deck. Lost game 1, then sided in Skullcrack and that was that.
Top 4, round 1: Lost 0-2 against BUG control, spot removal took out every single creature I had and Negates weren't enough to deal with them. Didn't help that I mulled to 5 in game two and still only drew two lands.
So, overall I like the deck, but here's the main issues so far:
- Issues with spot removal, two Negates in the side just aren't enough. My creatures need to hit the board and stay there for a turn or two to be useful. Considering Mizzium Skin in the side instead.
- Big trouble against RDW. Aggro with evasion (either flying, or making my stuff unable to block with Chandra +1) plus spot removal in the form of burn. I suppose in hindsight, I should have sided in Reckoners (and maybe Rest in Peace) and dealt with Chandra and the phoenixes with him and Pillar/Hybridization.
- Didn't find any reason to side in Ral Zarek in any matchup - not sure if that's because he doesn't fit in this deck, or because I just didn't get matched against anything he'd be good against, or because I'm bad and couldn't figure it out.
I actually play a competitive Izzet deck with YP and dragonshift, but I use the Dragonshift mostly for Nivmagus Elemental because he keeps his counters when you shift him so you can beat out with an enormous flyer, plus get another elemental token from YP. I have successfully overloaded the dragonshift once while having about three tokens, YP, and Magus. Ended up swinging for twenty four damage, win. I honestly do think that shift is best used with Magus, but i have used it on tokens. Overloading it though is really difficult to do unless the game goes very long. My opinion anyway.
I could see Counterflux being useful. Counter a removal spell and make your Cyclops that much stronger, or burn for 2, or make more tokens. I don't know what I'd drop for it.
And I originally did have Armed // Dangerous, but I replaced it with Boros Charm for the additional options that one has. The +1/+1 is nice, but being able to burn for 4 (or 6, or 8) or make all my creatures indestructible is nice.
And as for the lack of Artful Dodge: I know it's bad and I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm trying to build with rotation in mind. I already know I'll be dropping Pillar for Shock and Faithless Looting for Izzet Charm, as well as the duals for basics (or whatever duals we get in Theros, if any). It would be a good card in this deck, though.
I would splash white for Boros Charm (Saves dudes from Board Wipes/Give Nivix Cyclops double strike/close out a game with 4 to the dome) and Rootborn Defenses (protects your guys from a board wipe and nets you 2 tokens off Pyromancer). Warleaders Helix could also slide in.
Wake the Reflections might work, with YP out it's 2 tokens for 1 mana. Maybe drop Snapcaster in there to pump out even more tokens.
Speaking of which, how do we deal with all the token hate? Sideboard artifact removal? Splash white?
Wow, looks like a really really good deck. Will try it soon.
So I guess post rotation the deck would look something like:
4x Nivix Cyclops
4x Chandra's Phoenix
4x Young Pyromancer
Instants/Sorceries
2x Teleportal
4x Shock
4x Izzet Charm
2x Armed // Dangerous
2x Dragon Shift
2x Thoughtflare
4x Counterflux
3x Turn // Burn
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
Land
4x Steam Vents
13x Mountain
7x Island
Feels a little weak on burns actually. I guess maybe have some Skullcrack and Flames of the Firebrand in the sideboard.
Thanks, I have been testing it a bit, and it does alright, but I doesn't have a solid win con, which is one problem. Nivix Cyclops can do crushing amounts of damage, but I found that my largest hitters are generally Delver of Secrets when transformed. If I had them I would consider a Mizzium Mortars or 2 as well, just for larger creatures like Loxodon Smiter and Blood Baron of Vizkopa.
Yeah, i got destroyed by a nivix cyclops. Cant do anything to that guy with like mizzuim skin and teleportal. Just 7/4 to my face. I dont find that funny at all.
Don't be stupid and, like, play a land before the ability. This chick will get you two cards per turn. While "bob" had the drawback of burning, this requires you only play the card - which with Young Delvers curve should be absolutely zero problem. Why is this dope? What is a burner decks greatest weakness, class?
Did you say it runs out of steam and resources before it can kill? You'd be right.
Not when that deck gets 2 cards per turn. Not when the opponent wont be able to keep a creature on the board moderately long enough to stop the continued advantage.
4x Nivix Cyclops
4x Guttersnipe
4x Young Pyromancer
2x Ogre Battledriver
Noncreatures (25)
4x Pillar of Flame
4x Faithless Looting
4x Quicken
4x Rapid Hybridization
3x Dragonshift
3x Dynacharge
3x Boros Charm
4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Clifftop Retreat
5x Island
2x Ral Zarek
3x Skullcrack
3x Mizzium Mortars
2x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
3x Boros Reckoner
It was a fairly slow night, only 14 players, but I got 3rd place. Here's how it went...
Round 1: Up against a Golgari counters deck, using stuff like Varolz, Lotleth Troll, Hydras, Corpsejack, etc. Went 2-1 thanks to quantity over quality (Hybridization to turn a 12/12 Hydra into a 3/3 token helped too).
Round 2: 2-1 against a GWB deck, but it was close - he probably would have won game 3 if he hadn't mulled to 5. Voice of Resurgence is tricky and Blood Baron of Vizkopa stomped me hard until I could side in Mortars.
Round 3: 0-2 against RDW. Chandra and her phoenixes hurt, and Burning Earth completely owned me since I only have 5 basic lands in the deck.
Round 4: 2-1 against Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood combo deck. Lost game 1, then sided in Skullcrack and that was that.
Top 4, round 1: Lost 0-2 against BUG control, spot removal took out every single creature I had and Negates weren't enough to deal with them. Didn't help that I mulled to 5 in game two and still only drew two lands.
So, overall I like the deck, but here's the main issues so far:
- Issues with spot removal, two Negates in the side just aren't enough. My creatures need to hit the board and stay there for a turn or two to be useful. Considering Mizzium Skin in the side instead.
- Big trouble against RDW. Aggro with evasion (either flying, or making my stuff unable to block with Chandra +1) plus spot removal in the form of burn. I suppose in hindsight, I should have sided in Reckoners (and maybe Rest in Peace) and dealt with Chandra and the phoenixes with him and Pillar/Hybridization.
- Didn't find any reason to side in Ral Zarek in any matchup - not sure if that's because he doesn't fit in this deck, or because I just didn't get matched against anything he'd be good against, or because I'm bad and couldn't figure it out.
I could see Counterflux being useful. Counter a removal spell and make your Cyclops that much stronger, or burn for 2, or make more tokens. I don't know what I'd drop for it.
And I originally did have Armed // Dangerous, but I replaced it with Boros Charm for the additional options that one has. The +1/+1 is nice, but being able to burn for 4 (or 6, or 8) or make all my creatures indestructible is nice.
And as for the lack of Artful Dodge: I know it's bad and I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm trying to build with rotation in mind. I already know I'll be dropping Pillar for Shock and Faithless Looting for Izzet Charm, as well as the duals for basics (or whatever duals we get in Theros, if any). It would be a good card in this deck, though.
Wake the Reflections might work, with YP out it's 2 tokens for 1 mana. Maybe drop Snapcaster in there to pump out even more tokens.