Simic Aggro

  • #1
    Hello, everyone. I'm working on a Simic aggro list. I want to rely on cheap, powerful Evolve creatures while utilizing cheap disruption to win quickly on a low mana curve.

    arsenick_wrath's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    31 Creatures
    4 Experiment One
    4 Cloudfin Raptor
    4 Gyre Sage
    4 Shambleshark
    4 Strangleroot
    4 Drakewing Krasis
    4 Renegade Krasis
    3 Master Biomancer

    8 Spells
    3 Simic Charm
    3 Spell Rupture
    3 Negate

    21 Lands
    4 Breeding Pool
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    13 Forest / Island



    The good news is that the deck works very efficiently due to low mana costs. I rarely have a bad opening hand. The bad news is it is incredibly weak to board sweepers, most especially the uncounterable Supreme Verdict.

    Here's a list of potential sideboard and to-be-tested cards:



    Elusive Krasis vs. Drakewing Krasis
    I'm trying to decide which of these I should include in the deck. Drakewing is more aggressive than Elusive Krasis. However, Elusive Krasis can potentially evolve Shambleshark and Renegade Krasis to 5/4 and a Renegade Krasis that has been evolved twice more than makes up for Elusive's 0 starting power. However, having to evolve a Renegade Krasis twice probably means I'm over-extending which is already a problem for the deck. So Drakewing is my go-to with Elusive potentially ending up in the sideboard unless I find testing to prove otherwise.

    Any thoughts or suggestions? Especially any ideas on ways to make the deck less vulnerable to Supreme Verdict would be appreciated! Grin
    Quote from Megiddo
    I love making bad cards though Frown

    Quote from Coramoor
    Is this going straight in your Scarwood Treefolk deck or something?



    Thanks for the awesome sig spiderboy!
  • #2
    Quote from arsenick_wrath
    Hello, everyone. I'm working on a Simic aggro list. I want to rely on cheap, powerful Evolve creatures while utilizing cheap disruption to win quickly on a low mana curve.

    Eldermath's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    31 Creatures
    4 Experiment One
    4 Cloudfin Raptor
    4 Gyre Sage
    4 Shambleshark
    4 Strangleroot
    4 Drakewing Krasis
    4 Renegade Krasis
    3 Master Biomancer

    8 Spells
    3 Simic Charm
    3 Spell Rupture
    3 Negate

    21 Lands
    4 Breeding Pool
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    13 Forest / Island


    The good news is that the deck works very efficiently due to low mana costs. I rarely have a bad opening hand. The bad news is it is incredibly weak to board sweepers, most especially the uncounterable Supreme Verdict.

    Here's a list of potential sideboard and to-be-tested cards:


    Elusive Krasis vs. Drakewing Krasis
    I'm trying to decide which of these I should include in the deck. Drakewing is more aggressive than Elusive Krasis. However, Elusive Krasis can potentially evolve Shambleshark and Renegade Krasis to 5/4 and a Renegade Krasis that has been evolved twice more than makes up for Elusive's 0 starting power. However, having to evolve a Renegade Krasis twice probably means I'm over-extending which is already a problem for the deck. So Drakewing is my go-to with Elusive potentially ending up in the sideboard unless I find testing to prove otherwise.

    Any thoughts or suggestions? Especially any ideas on ways to make the deck less vulnerable to Supreme Verdict would be appreciated! Grin


    Evolve is powerful, but I think your first problem is too much focus on evolve. As you stated, evolve wants you to overextend your board, making very relevant cards destroy you.

    The solution is hybriding your list with more durable creatures. Your playing basically mean green machine, but with blue to flex it out, and evolve does give blue tools to use, so lets break it down:

    Experiment One, and Cloudfin Raptorshould almost definitely stay. Since your focus is beating face, these guys do that, and effectively. I personally love Gyre Sage, but don't know if this is the deck for her, simply because I've never consistently stabilized her to value by turn 5, and that should be where your cut off for good cards is in aggro.(like, it has to do something amazing, or at least efficient by turn 5) Shambleshark is better for this deck, gives you options to recover from sweeps, and even then I don't know if it should be kept, but I'm willing to side with it more than with Gyre Sage for this concept at least.

    Strangleroot Geist should definitely stay, and Renegade Krasis too, they are both efficient, and become more efficient over time. Strangleroot Geist can also be played to screw up control, and defense, and to recover from sweeps(most of the time it won't recover from a sweep, but will rather force your opponent to waste more resources, but either is fine.)

    I think Drakewing Krasis wins over Elusive Krasis, but still leaves you in a certain kind of hole, since you want to evolve your guys, and you want renegade going off often. I'd recommend maybe Deadbridge Goliath as a 2-3 of due to it's impact on the board, it's cheaper than power body, and it's ability to pump something if you get held up. However, I don't know if I'd cut drakewing for Deadbridge, so I don't know yet how I'd handle that. Master Biomancer should definitely stick around, I like what it does here.

    I'd cut one Simic Charm, and all your negate, I'd put in 4 Rancor, and find room for Increasing Savagery, at least 2, but possibly 3. Increasing Savagery is amazing, and can do amazing things on Master Biomancer, Experiment One and on Gyre Sage should you choose to keep a couple in(I'd go down to 2 of her at least, she just isn't that strong an option in an aggro type deck). Spell Rupture should give you enough counter presence since your so momentum driven, so what you really need to work towards is never letting go of momentum. Even though the GY option on Deadbridge, and Savagery seems like a lot, it doesn't fully matter since they represent rebuilding if someone attacks your momentum. Your opponent gets to be scared all over again if Master Biomancer comes down, and then immediately jumps to a 7/9 the next turn.(meaning that your threats come down with 7 counters on them O_O)

    This deck needs a sideboad, period, to be relevant. I'd side in things that play well to match ups based on predicted momentum on those match-ups. Good sb cards might be Negate against control, since it stops the majority of their defensive options, and Essence Scatter against aggro to keep their momentum down while you build yours. You might also maindeck Arbor Elf, it doesn't grow like Gyre Sage(which might be fine as a 2 of if you add more support for her), but it comes down as a relevant 1 drop that moves you into other cards. This could be a good deck since it recovers better than most from sweeps, but you need to build to that. to that extent a final option might be Predator Ooze even though it is rotating kind of soon(In september I think? When is Theros again?)
  • #3
    After playtesting a bit on Wizard's Familiar, I note some problems.

    1. 21 lands is a bit too few to reliably be able to cast Biomancer.
    2. Renegade Krasis will almost never evolve. And if it does, it only evolves off Biomancer.
    3. By the time you play Biomancer, most of your creatures are already on board. I see a synergy with Strangleroot. (Un-dies, comes back with 3 +1/+1 counters minimum.) But even then it's iffy.

    Suggestions:

    1. Rancor.
    2. Wolfir Avenger.
    3. Drop Negates, add Rapid Hybridization
    4. Possibly find room for Increasing Savagery.
    It’s like the universe screams in your face, “Do you know what I am? How grand I am? How old I am? Can you even comprehend what I am? What are you, compared to me?” And when you know enough science, you can just smile up at the universe and reply, “Dude, I am you.”

    I stepped out of a supernova...and so did you.
  • #4
    @Kage, you're right about the Gyre Sage being a bit weak in this deck. Once M14 comes in, I want to swap in Kalonian Tusker (GG for a 3/3). For that reason, I don't really see Arbor Elf in this deck. Currently the best thing about Gyre Sage is that it grows to be a threat. The fact that it CAN produce mana is something of a bonus, so I don't feel the need to bring in another mana elf.
    I could see Ooze predator being an option versus decks with Supreme Verdict! Grin I think I would keep it in the sideboard as against other decks, I think there are better 3 drops. Thanks for the advice!

    @Kaizer, you're right, it does feel a little land light. I'll bump it up to 22 lands. I feel anything more than that would be overkill though, as there are only three 4 drops currently.
    I can't believe I'm so silly about the Renegade being unable to evolve! I've actually been running Elusive Krasis in my testing so hadn't noticed it being light on evolve targets, but had decided on posting this list without even trying out the change! hahahaha. That being said, I want to add Kalonian Tusker (once M14 comes out!), and Wolfir Avenger, which will bump the number of creatures able to evolve Renegade up to 11.

    So that would make our creature base:


    I'm still unsure of what to do about the noncreature cards. Rancor speeds up the deck, but having Negates is nice when they try to use Bonefire of the Damned, etc.
    On Rapid Hybridization, I do like the card, but what's your thought process on suggesting it as a main deck card? To me it feels like a powerful option for the sideboard to deal with problematic utility creatures and finishers.

    Thanks for both your help. I'm at work right now, so I can't do any testing but as soon as I get a chance I'll try out the suggestions. Smile

    Edit:
    About Master Biomancer's inclusion: I actually first started testing him in the deck simply because I already had him and said why not, never really considering him as a true potential. That being said, he actually performed well beyond my expectations. He gives the deck longevity that it otherwise lacks. A turn 5 Cloudfin Raptor is absolutely useless. Unless you've got a Master Biomancer on the board! I guess you could say he's the deck's 'reach,' though I'm definitely open to trying other creatures for the top of my curve.
    Deadbridge Goliath is a nice candidate as he's got a very nice p/t to mana ratio. I also considered Yeva, Nature's Herald. It evolves anything in the deck and it gives everything but CFRaptor Flash which allows me to keep mana open for counter-magic until the end of my opponent's turn.
    Last edited by arsenick_wrath: 6/6/2013 2:20:11 PM
    Quote from Megiddo
    I love making bad cards though Frown

    Quote from Coramoor
    Is this going straight in your Scarwood Treefolk deck or something?



    Thanks for the awesome sig spiderboy!
  • #5
    Turn 1 Cloudfin Raptor into turn 2 Young Wolf and Rapid Hybridization makes for swinging with a 3/4 flier and an untapped 3/3 and 2/2....
    Magic player 1995-2006(ish), 2011-Present

    Standard: GW Selesnya Aggro, GWB Voice of Servitude, R Stuffy Reckoning, UWB Unblockable Auras, UG Defenders of the Combo
    Extended: G Cheat-a-Colossus Elves,BRU Infinite Heartless,R Infect, R 'Helldrazi' (Hellions/Eldrazi Tokens)
    Legacy: R Goblinstorm, UR Artifacts, R Artifacts, BURWG Land Deck, etc.
    Commander: BRWUGSliver Overlord, BR Tsabo Tavoc

    Working on putting my decks here for testplaying: http://tappedout.net/users/drunk231/
  • #6
    Quote from drunk231
    Turn 1 Cloudfin Raptor into turn 2 Young Wolf and Rapid Hybridization makes for swinging with a 3/4 flier and an untapped 3/3 and 2/2....

    Ah, it's also a removal spell for things that are worse for you than a 3/3(like perhaps Gloom Surgeon or Fog Bank off the top of my head), although it's synergy with undying is something I missed. That might be worth doing with the wolf.

    After hearing peoples thoughts on Biomancer, I think they are right. You need a more pertinent 4 drop that does things. Perhaps a combination of the Deadbridge Goliath, and Increasing Savagery? If you include rancor, both can up the reach to lethal damage easily.
  • #7
    Well if you get the wolf and nothing else, at least it is more resilient than other one drops, and if you get just the Hybridization and wolf, you still get a 2/2 and a 3/3, but if you get just the Hybridization it doubles as removal and a suprise blocker (destroy a tapped creature for a 3/3 froglizard). I agree with Increasing Savagery also. I think with 4 Savagery 4 Gyre Sage you could actually even power out a few, or one with flashback relatively quickly (T2 Sage, T3 Wolf/Hybrid....2 extra mana).

    EDIT

    Also, T2 Gyre Sage, T3 Wolf/Hybridization, T4 Savagery on Gyre - flash back Savagery....the sage has 17 counters on it.

    Maybe something like this:

    drunk231's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (22):
    4 Cloudfin Raptor
    4 Gyre Sage
    4 Strangleroot Geist
    4 Wolfir Avenger
    3 Young Wolf
    3 Drakewing Krasis

    Spells (16):
    4 Rancor
    3 Rapid Hybridization
    3 Simic Charm
    3 Spell Rupture
    3 Increasing Savagery

    22 Lands



    The deck above has a nice 14/14/7/3 curve and you can Savagery on your Wolfir against control/wipe (regenerate) and Savagery on Drakewing when you need to rise above blockers.
    Last edited by drunk231: 6/6/2013 3:19:24 PM
    Magic player 1995-2006(ish), 2011-Present

    Standard: GW Selesnya Aggro, GWB Voice of Servitude, R Stuffy Reckoning, UWB Unblockable Auras, UG Defenders of the Combo
    Extended: G Cheat-a-Colossus Elves,BRU Infinite Heartless,R Infect, R 'Helldrazi' (Hellions/Eldrazi Tokens)
    Legacy: R Goblinstorm, UR Artifacts, R Artifacts, BURWG Land Deck, etc.
    Commander: BRWUGSliver Overlord, BR Tsabo Tavoc

    Working on putting my decks here for testplaying: http://tappedout.net/users/drunk231/
  • #8
    You should check out this thread about the Simic deck that took 2nd place in a Bronze TCQ with tier 1 decks about.

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=507648

    It has a no-nonsense approach and utilizes the very powerful interaction with Undying creatures and Rapid Hybridization. A lot of people try to be cute in these kinds of decks, running cards like Shambleshark and Renegade Krasis, but sometimes pure consistency is just what you need. The only thing i'm not sure about Ryan Hare's list is the 4 Abundant Growths. I'd probably replace it with 2 Zameck Guildmage, 1 Simic Charm and 1 Snapcaster Mage.
  • #9
    I built a RUG version... RUG blitz...Trying to get as many 3 power two drops as possible and accelerating with burning tree.

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=515469

    and not running any three drops.
    Standard, Budget:
    UBR URB control.
    UB heroic humans
    Modern, Budget:
    GBW Melria Pod (no fetch)
    R Mono red storm

    Casual:
    RGB Jund Dragons
    UGrand Architech
    WR Tempered steel
    BG wild defiance Infect.

    EDH
    GB Glissa, the traitor
    UWIsperia, Supereme Judge
    UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
  • #10
    Quote from blinkbat
    You should check out this thread about the Simic deck that took 2nd place in a Bronze TCQ with tier 1 decks about.

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=507648

    It has a no-nonsense approach and utilizes the very powerful interaction with Undying creatures and Rapid Hybridization. A lot of people try to be cute in these kinds of decks, running cards like Shambleshark and Renegade Krasis, but sometimes pure consistency is just what you need. The only thing i'm not sure about Ryan Hare's list is the 4 Abundant Growths. I'd probably replace it with 2 Zameck Guildmage, 1 Simic Charm and 1 Snapcaster Mage.


    Hm, wow. That's really cool.
    I agree with you about the Abundant Growths. I don't really see the application of them. Definitely food for thought.
    Quote from Megiddo
    I love making bad cards though Frown

    Quote from Coramoor
    Is this going straight in your Scarwood Treefolk deck or something?



    Thanks for the awesome sig spiderboy!
  • #11
    Quote from arsenick_wrath
    Hm, wow. That's really cool.
    I agree with you about the Abundant Growths. I don't really see the application of them. Definitely food for thought.


    The simplest way I can help explain this one, is that this deck (Ryan Hare's take on it) is almost "aggro-combo". IF the deck doesn't have an absolutely explosive start; ex: T1 Experiment, T2 Young Wolf + Rapid Hybridization, the deck will simply not get there fast enough.

    As Blinkbat mentioned, this deck is extremely all or nothing, and needs consistent draws. The worst case scenario is you have too many tricks but not enough actual threats, or not the right ones. You have to think, with how aggressive this deck is trying to play, 20 creatures is very low threat density. So how do we keep the curve low enough so that it's still blitz-like fast, but ideally has something to do every turn? Enter Abundant Growth. The color fixing is just a perk, it's entirely there to help ensure that you have a creature to play since it's very low on actual threat count. Also as Blink mentioned about Zameck Guildmage - I'm definitely not saying that's correct or incorrect, but I'm willing to guess the pilot of this deck tried with it, and realized that this deck doesn't even have time to care about the undying+guildmage interaction. That being said, 2 is definitely/probably the right number, you never need to actually draw more than one, and you only want to ever cast it if you have a Strangleroot/Wolf in play already.

    Think of the Abundant Growth's as the combo piece you need (the Wolf or the Geist, or the Rapid H for it) or the creature you need basically, or the Charm/countermagic, or just more gas. Then you begin to realize this deck is incredibly reliant on good draws and speed + a little bit of it's own combo interaction. The Young Wolfs and Strangleroot Geists aren't going to win games on their own, and the Rapids definitely won't win on their own either.
    Standard: Team GWB RAMP
    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9157664&postcount=1
    South Carolina State Champion: 2012

    Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
  • #12
    At the local gaming store I go to, they offer double packs for FNM if you submit an unusual deck idea along with a write-up of why you chose what you did. Here is the list that I took last night to a 4-0 record:

    MrGuy's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Main Deck
    4x Cloudfin Raptor
    4x Dryad Militant
    4x Experiment One
    4x Young Wolf
    4x Strangleroot Geist
    4x Wolfir Avenger

    4x Ranger's Guile
    4x Rapid Hybridization
    4x Simic Charm
    4x Revenge of the Hunted

    4x Breeding Pool
    4x Hinterland Harbor
    4x Island
    8x Forest



    I'll be the first to admit the sideboard is terrible. I had no idea what to put in and had very limited time to figure it out, as I built the maindeck in less than a day. Having said that, the main deck is super sweet. The only thing I would consider changing would be to go down to 2-3 Revenge of the Hunted. The Guiles and Charms were amazing and saved my butt many times. Rapid Hybridization was definitely the MVC.

    For the sideboard, I will change up quite a bit, leaving only in the Shamblesharks and Naturalizes. Skylashers will be put in since my local meta is starting to play Delvers again, and they are also great against Geists.
  • #13
    Oooh that looks pretty good I might put that together and have a go at using it.

    Probably have negate in the side
    i'd keep the guildmage in the side.
    those two are good in the control match ups.

    would you play turn//burn for just the turn side?... so good agianst thrags and voices maybe in the side.

    wild defiance seems tempting
    Standard, Budget:
    UBR URB control.
    UB heroic humans
    Modern, Budget:
    GBW Melria Pod (no fetch)
    R Mono red storm

    Casual:
    RGB Jund Dragons
    UGrand Architech
    WR Tempered steel
    BG wild defiance Infect.

    EDH
    GB Glissa, the traitor
    UWIsperia, Supereme Judge
    UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
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