I have been trying to brew some Junk decks for the new rotation of standard and I keep trying on working in Deathrite Shaman, but I seem to find him lacking. In modern/legacy/vintage I find he is a lot more valuable since he is a very good mana dork when combined with fetches and accelerates you mana base. However, in standard I rarely find he often sits around until there is excess mana around before he starts doing damage/healing.
I have been trying to brew some Junk decks for the new rotation of standard and I keep trying on working in Deathrite Shaman, but I seem to find him lacking. In modern/legacy/vintage I find he is a lot more valuable since he is a very good mana dork when combined with fetches and accelerates you mana base. However, in standard I rarely find he often sits around until there is excess mana around before he starts doing damage/healing.
I'm sure there are more cards that put stuff in graveyard, but i can't think of any at the moment.
I like the tech with quicken, but why play glimpse when you can play forbidden alchemy? It digs deeper, has flashback AND its an instant, all at the same mana cost. Past rotation it can be replaced with glimpse, but for now, why limit yourself? Your opponent isn't going to.
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The most important aspect of drs is its mana generation ability, if you cast it on the ist turn. Standard offers no way of dumping lands on turn 1 and 2.
The other not so impt aspect of drs, is that after it has played its role as a mana dork, it has 2 other options to choose from, wheter you want to kill your opponent, or prevent your opponent from killing you. no other dorks offer this versatility.
In essence:
It is pointless to run drs in the current standard because it cant produce mana when casted on the best turn, which is the ist turn.
I have been trying to brew some Junk decks for the new rotation of standard and I keep trying on working in Deathrite Shaman, but I seem to find him lacking. In modern/legacy/vintage I find he is a lot more valuable since he is a very good mana dork when combined with fetches and accelerates you mana base. However, in standard I rarely find he often sits around until there is excess mana around before he starts doing damage/healing.
I was just wondering in standard, where do you see him fitting in best?
It's essentially a one mana planes walker. You get what you pay for, which is not that much in standard, as there are not that many ways of getting lands into the graveyard.
I like the tech with quicken, but why play glimpse when you can play forbidden alchemy? It digs deeper, has flashback AND its an instant, all at the same mana cost. Past rotation it can be replaced with glimpse, but for now, why limit yourself? Your opponent isn't going to.
Just thinking of stuff post rotation. Of course at the moment forbidden alchemy is superior.
Deathrite Shaman is much better in Legacy and Modern because he can be used as a mana dork, he can get rid of spells/creatures and he can even hurt an opponents Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary.
Standard however is a different story. Standard at the moment lacks fetch lands in order to maximize the use of Deathrite Shaman because most the the decks that really need/want Deathrite Shaman JUND and JUNK have trouble getting lands into there graveyard in order to use. That is why most of those decks are just playing four Farseek instead. I feel that Scavenging Ooze is just better in standard (not legacy or modern) because you can still get rid of Flashback cards/Creature cards in graveyards, gain life, and pump Scavenging Ooze into being a real threat.
So to answer your question I just don't really see Deathrite Shaman in any standard decks at the moment. He seems like much more of a sideboard card.
Deathrite Shaman is much better in Legacy and Modern because he can be used as a mana dork, he can get rid of spells/creatures and he can even hurt an opponents Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary.
Standard however is a different story. Standard at the moment lacks fetch lands in order to maximize the use of Deathrite Shaman because most the the decks that really need/want Deathrite Shaman JUND and JUNK have trouble getting lands into there graveyard in order to use. That is why most of those decks are just playing four Farseek instead. I feel that Scavenging Ooze is just better in standard (not legacy or modern) because you can still get rid of Flashback cards/Creature cards in graveyards, gain life, and pump Scavenging Ooze into being a real threat.
So to answer your question I just don't really see Deathrite Shaman in any standard decks at the moment. He seems like much more of a sideboard card.
Why are people so focused on the mana ability? I use his shock effect more than anything else. He's good against reanimator and snapcaster decks. If you're 4 or 5C Rites, it's much easier to hit his mana ability as you have access to Izzet charm, faithless looting, trackers' instincts, or forbidden alchemy.
I play this guy in Modern and Standard, not sure why people think you can't put land in the graveyard early? As others mentioned, Grisly Salvage and Evolving Wilds are two easy answers to the problem.
I play Gruul Blitz and I groan every time I see the card t1. It makes Stromkirk Noble cries himself to sleep at night. In addition to being a pesky Noble blocker, it has very relevant life gain and forces me to use a burn spell on it before it can do any of that nonsense.
I've also seen it win races and board stalls like a champion. It does a lot and I expect it to see play post-rotation.
It's just not the best against Thragtusk City or Supreme Revelations.
Grisly salvage and evolving wilds are somewhat clumsy though. In eternal formats you crack your fetch play your shaman and now you're ready to jump straight to 3 mana next turn the same as playing a llanowar elves or bird of paradise turn 1.
Like junk runs both grisly salvage and mana dorks but they don't swap dorks for deathrites because they desperately need to hit 5 mana to stabilize off a thragtusk or unburial rites and even though deathrite adds a ton of utility and a slightly better body once the ramping is done it's too inconsistent at hitting the ramp on time. Junk also uses 3 drops like centaur healer, sin collector, and fiend hunter to buy time and disrupt the opponent's plan until 5 mana and a DRS can't hit 3 mana on turn 2 in standard. If you tried to swap the 3 drops for 4 drops and add evolving wilds to smooth his function in the deck you would get hands with no shaman and an evolving wilds in place of a basic or dual and a 4 drop which really sucks compared to a hand with no mana dork and a 3 drop.
I personally like to use DRS as a way to reach in the last point of damage in a deck with master of cruelties, i really love the guy, but i can see why he doesn't have a home right now in a standard with this variety of powerful graveyard hate and 9 mana dorks.
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Deathrite Shaman is much better in Legacy and Modern because he can be used as a mana dork, he can get rid of spells/creatures and he can even hurt an opponents Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary.
Standard however is a different story. Standard at the moment lacks fetch lands in order to maximize the use of Deathrite Shaman because most the the decks that really need/want Deathrite Shaman JUND and JUNK have trouble getting lands into there graveyard in order to use. That is why most of those decks are just playing four Farseek instead. I feel that Scavenging Ooze is just better in standard (not legacy or modern) because you can still get rid of Flashback cards/Creature cards in graveyards, gain life, and pump Scavenging Ooze into being a real threat.
So to answer your question I just don't really see Deathrite Shaman in any standard decks at the moment. He seems like much more of a sideboard card.
This is my issue. I was play testing a Junk Rock deck on cockatrice last night and was up against an esper control deck with Lingering Souls, Snapcaster Mage and other flash back spells and I was wishing for my DRS. I am thinking they need to come into my SB just for moments like that.
Still need to find a good 1CMC drop for the rock though. Slitherhead is hit or miss.
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Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
I think Deathrite shaman is an overall over powered card but not what standard needs at the moment, I am sure he will see play again before he rotates.
in the above comment by Complex Pants and I agree with it for the most party (aside from Slitherhead ever being playable.)
I think for Jund Deathrite might be able to find a home but more as a Grim Lavamancer filling 2 of (kinda like some Legacy Jund lists) as a way to get extra damage in and maybe some lifegain but as for now if you just want gy removal Scavaging ooze is where its at as he can double as a beater (standard Goyf if you will) on a side I think DRS should see more SB play but that is just my 2 cents.
I think Deathrite shaman is an overall over powered card but not what standard needs at the moment, I am sure he will see play again before he rotates.
in the above comment by Complex Pants and I agree with it for the most party (aside from Slitherhead ever being playable.)
I think for Jund Deathrite might be able to find a home but more as a Grim Lavamancer filling 2 of (kinda like some Legacy Jund lists) as a way to get extra damage in and maybe some lifegain but as for now if you just want gy removal Scavaging ooze is where its at as he can double as a beater (standard Goyf if you will) on a side I think DRS should see more SB play but that is just my 2 cents.
I moved Deathrite Shaman back into my MD because I really don't have a good 1 drop replacement, and well he is still really good at getting rid of Grave crawlers among other things. I found I was generally SB him in against any control deck. Also the fact that I only have 1 Scooze atm. Will get more after I finish up getting more shock lands.
Still looking for a solid post-rotation 1CMC drop in Junk colors. Maybe considering a switch to BUG, but right now Junk.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
I moved Deathrite Shaman back into my MD because I really don't have a good 1 drop replacement, and well he is still really good at getting rid of Grave crawlers among other things. I found I was generally SB him in against any control deck. Also the fact that I only have 1 Scooze atm. Will get more after I finish up getting more shock lands.
Still looking for a solid post-rotation 1CMC drop in Junk colors. Maybe considering a switch to BUG, but right now Junk.
Cool, I've considering Bug but I feel after Rotation 3 color decks are not going to be king unless they print more dual lands
Well considering one of the leaked creatures is a R/W legendary, I expect duals will be seen. We will just need to have an answer to Burning Earth.
true, but it looks(for now) like we lose farseek and that means 3 color decks lose their edge unless we get some new ramp/fix spell Burning Earth is pretty simple so long as decks using lots of non-basic lands run enchantment hate in the board they will be fine.
He seems a lot better when you've got cheap spells to play as well, standard really seems to reward just curving out while in modern/legacy the spells are so cheap and powerful you can do something like cast abrupt decay on T3 and then hit them for 2 with DRS on their end step rather than play a 3 mana card.
In standard the best I've seen him is someone drops him once both people are mostly out of resources and use him to grind away with his utility. I think for him to function in standard you'd need a deck that plays cheap and powerful spells that maintain tempo and use him to sort of ding them over and over creating a clock while you control their board/hand (thoughtseize would work well with what he's good at in standard).
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I have been debating replacing him with a card like Slitherhead or Elvish Mystic in my brews.
I was just wondering in standard, where do you see him fitting in best?
He works best in reanimator and bug tempo (grisly salvage/thought scour/snapcaster/scavenging ooze)
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I like him in BUG with Quicken and Glimpse the Future.
I'm sure there are more cards that put stuff in graveyard, but i can't think of any at the moment.
Yeah, forgot about Grisly Salvage. Plus, there is good synergy with Ooze.
I like the tech with quicken, but why play glimpse when you can play forbidden alchemy? It digs deeper, has flashback AND its an instant, all at the same mana cost. Past rotation it can be replaced with glimpse, but for now, why limit yourself? Your opponent isn't going to.
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The other not so impt aspect of drs, is that after it has played its role as a mana dork, it has 2 other options to choose from, wheter you want to kill your opponent, or prevent your opponent from killing you. no other dorks offer this versatility.
In essence:
It is pointless to run drs in the current standard because it cant produce mana when casted on the best turn, which is the ist turn.
It's essentially a one mana planes walker. You get what you pay for, which is not that much in standard, as there are not that many ways of getting lands into the graveyard.
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RWB Mythic Midrange RWB
It's certainly not an ideal line of play at this point, but it is possible.
Yeah that's way too Christmas-landish.
Deathrite Shaman does some interesting things with Trading Post though.
Just thinking of stuff post rotation. Of course at the moment forbidden alchemy is superior.
Standard however is a different story. Standard at the moment lacks fetch lands in order to maximize the use of Deathrite Shaman because most the the decks that really need/want Deathrite Shaman JUND and JUNK have trouble getting lands into there graveyard in order to use. That is why most of those decks are just playing four Farseek instead. I feel that Scavenging Ooze is just better in standard (not legacy or modern) because you can still get rid of Flashback cards/Creature cards in graveyards, gain life, and pump Scavenging Ooze into being a real threat.
So to answer your question I just don't really see Deathrite Shaman in any standard decks at the moment. He seems like much more of a sideboard card.
Why are people so focused on the mana ability? I use his shock effect more than anything else. He's good against reanimator and snapcaster decks. If you're 4 or 5C Rites, it's much easier to hit his mana ability as you have access to Izzet charm, faithless looting, trackers' instincts, or forbidden alchemy.
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I've also seen it win races and board stalls like a champion. It does a lot and I expect it to see play post-rotation.
It's just not the best against Thragtusk City or Supreme Revelations.
Like junk runs both grisly salvage and mana dorks but they don't swap dorks for deathrites because they desperately need to hit 5 mana to stabilize off a thragtusk or unburial rites and even though deathrite adds a ton of utility and a slightly better body once the ramping is done it's too inconsistent at hitting the ramp on time. Junk also uses 3 drops like centaur healer, sin collector, and fiend hunter to buy time and disrupt the opponent's plan until 5 mana and a DRS can't hit 3 mana on turn 2 in standard. If you tried to swap the 3 drops for 4 drops and add evolving wilds to smooth his function in the deck you would get hands with no shaman and an evolving wilds in place of a basic or dual and a 4 drop which really sucks compared to a hand with no mana dork and a 3 drop.
I personally like to use DRS as a way to reach in the last point of damage in a deck with master of cruelties, i really love the guy, but i can see why he doesn't have a home right now in a standard with this variety of powerful graveyard hate and 9 mana dorks.
This is my issue. I was play testing a Junk Rock deck on cockatrice last night and was up against an esper control deck with Lingering Souls, Snapcaster Mage and other flash back spells and I was wishing for my DRS. I am thinking they need to come into my SB just for moments like that.
Still need to find a good 1CMC drop for the rock though. Slitherhead is hit or miss.
in the above comment by Complex Pants and I agree with it for the most party (aside from Slitherhead ever being playable.)
I think for Jund Deathrite might be able to find a home but more as a Grim Lavamancer filling 2 of (kinda like some Legacy Jund lists) as a way to get extra damage in and maybe some lifegain but as for now if you just want gy removal Scavaging ooze is where its at as he can double as a beater (standard Goyf if you will) on a side I think DRS should see more SB play but that is just my 2 cents.
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
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Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
I moved Deathrite Shaman back into my MD because I really don't have a good 1 drop replacement, and well he is still really good at getting rid of Grave crawlers among other things. I found I was generally SB him in against any control deck. Also the fact that I only have 1 Scooze atm. Will get more after I finish up getting more shock lands.
Still looking for a solid post-rotation 1CMC drop in Junk colors. Maybe considering a switch to BUG, but right now Junk.
Cool, I've considering Bug but I feel after Rotation 3 color decks are not going to be king unless they print more dual lands
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
true, but it looks(for now) like we lose farseek and that means 3 color decks lose their edge unless we get some new ramp/fix spell Burning Earth is pretty simple so long as decks using lots of non-basic lands run enchantment hate in the board they will be fine.
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
Evolving wilds isn't still in the format is it? It's going away with all the other M13 cards.
Not leaked yet. And no fetches in sight.
All lands have been leaked. There's no more room for lands on the number crunch.
In standard the best I've seen him is someone drops him once both people are mostly out of resources and use him to grind away with his utility. I think for him to function in standard you'd need a deck that plays cheap and powerful spells that maintain tempo and use him to sort of ding them over and over creating a clock while you control their board/hand (thoughtseize would work well with what he's good at in standard).